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CPL's Counter-Strike: More 'gay' than The Sims?!
October 20th 2001, 05:18 CEST by Jeremy Witt

*sniff* Wahhh... seeing the word 'bomb' makes me think about reality.  Ripped from Shacknews:

CPL is using a special version of Counter-Strike (designed and implemented for the CPL by Valve Software). Here are just a few of the changes:
1. The words "terrorist" and "counter-terrorist" have been replaced with the clan's name.
2. In-game text files containing the words "terroist" "counter-terrorist" have been replaced with "offensive team" and "defensive team."
3. The text files containing the word "bomb" have been replaced with "device" and "communication device."
4. Sound wav. files containing explosion sounds have been deleted.
5. Models are now forced and the entire offensive and defensive teams can choose only one model per team.  The action of the game now gravitates around a team trying to activate a communication device and the other team attempting to prevent that.

Is this kind of stuff really important? Companies are scrambling to erase every image of the WTC. Is 'removing all violence / references to terrorists' actually going to accomplish anything?  I want to play games based on 'blowing up terrorists' now more than ever. But unfortunately all of the terrorists are going to be replaced by fluffy bunnies...
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Home » Topic: CPL's Counter-Strike: More 'gay' than The Sims?!

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#1 by "andrei sama"
2001-10-20 05:22:01
andrei@planetps2.com http://www.planetps2.com
I for one think it's complete and utter crap. Especially when it's a change as glaringly obvious and stupid as this one. Communication device? Eesh.
#2 by "Russ"
2001-10-20 05:29:24
rthcowboy@mindspring.com
That's just sad. Was there some pressure from sponsors to implement these changes? What's next? An online game where everyone stops competing to sit around a campfire and sing songs?
#3 by "Warren Marshall"
2001-10-20 05:31:21
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicboy.com
I was talking to some people at work earlier about this and everyone agrees that this is the stupidest thing to come down the pipe in a while.  Ridiculous.
#4 by "jafd"
2001-10-20 05:31:29
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
I think Counter-Strike is stupid. Note, I am not saying, "Counter-Strike isn't my cup of tea," I'm saying, the game itself, is ass. IMHO. Keep in mind, however, that I thoroughly enjoyed Black & White, so, whatever.

Having gotten that out of the way... I don't see what much of the fuss is about, really. Won't there be people hacking in the terrorist references as fast as they get patched out? /shrug. As far as what the 'professional' league does... hey, they have to make a buck. They get their bucks from people who, you know, have them already. Saying "this sucks" is akin to saying that advertising being present during other professional sports sucks. Welcome to Earth, circa 2k, hope you enjoy your stay.

=====
I am a prototype for a much larger crow's nest.
#5 by "Narcopolo"
2001-10-20 05:32:33
If I were Gooseman and Cliffe et al., I'd be outraged, in fact I'd be thinking that the CPL, a for profit organization, is misrepresenting my game.   Valve should seriously look into the possibility that commercial entities are hurting the image of the game by making the people that play it professionally look like they are taking part in pussyness.  Most everyone who doesnt play CS regularly already despises the people who do.
Valve acceding to this will not be forgotten.  The online community already has it in for Valve.  And that's their fans.

Who does the CPL think it's kidding?  Who are it's target audience, and it's members?  People who are more than likely to be more offended by being protected than to play someone called a terrorist.  

Forcing models seems like something they were thinking about doing anyway, and was ushered in under the rubric of not partaking in terrorist activity.  Kind of like John Ashcroft and his demands for greater powers for the FBI.
#6 by "Caryn Law"
2001-10-20 05:35:57
carynlaw@pacbell.net
#4 jafd

Having gotten that out of the way... I don't see what much of the fuss is about, really. Won't there be people hacking in the terrorist references as fast as they get patched out? /shrug.


The point is not whether or not it'll happen anyway. The point is that if you ignore the issue, it makes people think this stuff is okay to do.
#7 by "jafd"
2001-10-20 05:46:34
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
#6 Caryn Law
The point is not whether or not it'll happen anyway. The point is that if you ignore the issue, it makes people think this stuff is okay to do.

I think it is okay to do. CPL is a privately held company. Right? They can set it up so that it is Fraggles vs. Dozers if they wanna. Unless there is some kind of contract they have or someone else has some legal right or whatrot, what they are doing is perfectly a-ok. Is it a legal issue, really? Is there precedent? Or is this some kind of moral and/or ethical crusade?

I really like getting into a topic like this early, so I can ask all sorts of stupid questions and get answers to them before the noise creeps up. :) Even though I don't enjoy Counter-Strike, I really am glad it exists, as a kind of schmuck sink. For my money, no matter how much crying and carrying on goes on over this issue, it will ultimately end up accomplishing little more than causing a few people to think, "hey, maybe it isn't so cool to run around shooting people in the head." I don't know that that is a reasonable objective, but hey, obviously some people do.

So, Caryn, you're clearly a level thinker, you tell me. Why is this "not ok?" Also, why is the alteration of the MIB2 and Spider-Man movies "not ok," if that is your position as well? To me, it makes sense; they aren't there any more. Why pretend they are? Editing pre-911 images seems outrageous to me as well, but, curiously, I haven't actually heard of anyone actually doing that.

I'm going nappy-poo in a few quarter-hours. Everyone be good and make a nice piece of work for me to peruse over breakfast, eh? Thanks.

=====
I am a prototype for a much larger brick.
#8 by "Caryn Law"
2001-10-20 05:51:10
carynlaw@pacbell.net
#7 jafd

So, Caryn, you're clearly a level thinker, you tell me. Why is this "not ok?" Also, why is the alteration of the MIB2 and Spider-Man movies "not ok," if that is your position as well? To me, it makes sense; they aren't there any more. Why pretend they are? Editing pre-911 images seems outrageous to me as well, but, curiously, I haven't actually heard of anyone actually doing that.


I think that short-term editing of content was a good idea. Two days after the attack, I really didn't want to see the Towers unmarred; it was too painful a reminder. But I think that we now have to move on. We've had our time to grieve, and now it's time to take all those pictures out that we put away, figuratively, and start living life again. We're not going to ever forget what happened, but now that we've gotten through what was probably the most sensitive time, we can start learning to live with the images again.
#9 by "jafd"
2001-10-20 05:58:23
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
#8 Caryn Law
But I think that we now have to move on. We've had our time to grieve, and now it's time to take all those pictures out that we put away, figuratively, and start living life again. We're not going to ever forget what happened, but now that we've gotten through what was probably the most sensitive time, we can start learning to live with the images again.

I agree with what you're saying, but the conclusion you reach, utterly escapes me. The buildings are gone. Why use technological media magic to continue to display them? To what purpose?

You say that we "now have to move on." To my mind, "moving on" would be to replace the images of the towers with images of the still smoking rubble. Check that out. Under the ground, the fires are still burning. And you tell me we are past the most sensitive time? When it is going to take upwards of nine months to clear the wreckage? Bah. Double bah.

=====
I am a prototype for a much larger hiatus.
#10 by "Dinglehoffen"
2001-10-20 06:05:21
jafd's note to self: "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with BULLSHIT."  I swear jafd's post are the most fucking stupid assortment of mixed metaphors on the damn forum. He's so full of shit that he wouldn't even make it as a politician. Ten to one says he's a tech support advisor for cockboxing mexican whores.
#11 by "jafd"
2001-10-20 06:07:54
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
The one who cannot dance, thinks the band is no good. *plink*
#12 by "The Joker"
2001-10-20 06:09:28
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
AMEMRRICANS AER STOOPIT!!!!!!!1111111111111

Joker, Phd. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
#13 by "Dinglehoffen"
2001-10-20 06:19:13
"The one who cannot dance, thinks the band is no good. *plink*"

You know jafd, you're really going to have to start coming up with some new material. You're routine is getting predictable and, although I HATE to say it, boring.
#14 by "jafd"
2001-10-20 06:25:21
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
Hijack this, wanna-breeders!

Speaking of "schmuck sinks"... funk dis. See you later, Caryn, was good.
#15 by "Hugin"
2001-10-20 06:26:04
lmccain@nber.org
All I know is, in the week following the attack, during which time I was seriously depressed, killing pixels and polygons was an integral part of of the beginning of my healing process. I blew a whole hell of a lot of stuff up.  Now, big liberal "don't put homophobic slurs on the cruise missles" softy that I am, I think retroactively sanitizing Counterstrike is silly, and intellectually dishonest.  If what happened Sept 11th makes you a different person, changes you, then good.  If it's something meaningful.  But cosmetic changes to long established games that don't have anything directly to do with what happened?  What's next, modify the code on all flight simulators so that you can't fly airliners into buildings?
#16 by "None-1a"
2001-10-20 06:37:48
http://www.opencrap.org
#9 jafd
I agree with what you're saying, but the conclusion you reach, utterly escapes me. The buildings are gone. Why use technological media magic to continue to display them? To what purpose?


I don't take what he said to mean putting the images into new movies (or sticking them back in the ones that where removed), just that we should continue to edit them out if they where in the images to begin with.

When a family member dies people take pictures down or turn them around while they grieve, but they don't take them out and burn the images. Once they get over it they put the pictures back up, but don't add the person digitaly to new family pictures.
#17 by "None-1a"
2001-10-20 06:39:25
http://www.opencrap.org
#16 None-1a
just that we should continue to edit them out if they where in the images to begin with.


That should read

that we shouldn't continue to edit them

when will I learn to type contractions
#18 by "leslie nassar"
2001-10-20 06:50:09
jesus@jesuslovesmefrombehind.com www.jesuslovesmefrombehind.com
Hey cool, Counterstrike is going back to its roots... Pong.  "The device" or "the big square pixel", it's all the same. Of course Pong had two all-white teams.  Is there a petition I can sign to demand that CPL mandate neutral grey skins for all?
#19 by "Caryn Law"
2001-10-20 07:14:31
carynlaw@pacbell.net
#16 None-1a
#9 jafd
I agree with what you're saying, but the conclusion you reach, utterly escapes me. The buildings are gone. Why use technological media magic to continue to display them? To what purpose?


I don't take what he said to mean putting the images into new movies (or sticking them back in the ones that where removed), just that we should continue to edit them out if they where in the images to begin with.


Yeah, I think None-1a has the point here. I'm not suggesting we digitally add the buildings into anything (I think that would be strange at best). It's just that I think we can stop, at this point, removing them now.
#20 by "crash"
2001-10-20 07:40:07
crash@planetcrap.com
re: the topic. i like Angel and Polish and the CPL, but jesus christ, guys...

"Gee, let's take out all references to terrorists and bombs; no one will ever remember what the original game was. And hey, stop the violence! Here's your MP5 and sniper rifle and grenades. Go kill the other team."

if i were Gooseman, i'd be really happy that this has turned all his hard work into Clan Arena,  because that's basically what it is now. what's next, guys? gonna give each team paintball guns, or maybe make it like flag football? bah, can't be flag, cos that's violent 'n' stuff. make it two-hand touch.

as for the mixed metaphors a la jafd, shit, this whole situation is a mixed metaphor, so at least it's fitting.

do i think we should be somewhat sensitive to the moods and emotions of those affected by the incident? absolutely. do i think changing some names arbitrarily in a mod for a three year old game over a month past the incident addresses that sensitivity? no. this isn't sensitivity.

this is marketing. and grandstanding. and (to be ghoulish) profiting from the tragedy. and that's why it makes me sick--not for the political correctness, but for the overall uselessness of it. it's like those movie stars wearing the ribbons to awards ceremonies. "We're raising awareness." yeah, right--why not donate some of the millions of dollars you make to research if you're that concerned? buncha feel-good no-changing-anything bullshit. but they care, so i guess that means something, right? chortle. hey CPL, want to make a difference? donate part of the proceeds to the relief effort. trump that up, because at least you'd be doing something effective.

so, to sum up: ill-conceived, poorly timed, insipid, and useless. but hey, it looks good in a press release.
#21 by "JMCDaveL"
2001-10-20 07:57:32
jmcdavel@mailandnews.com http://www.seizurebots.com
crash said:
I like Angel and Polish and the CPL



I used to look up to you crash, damn you, you damned dirty ape!

Oh and Cooterstrike sucks.

--jmc
#22 by "crash"
2001-10-20 08:14:24
crash@planetcrap.com
JMCDaveL:

I used to look up to you crash, damn you, you damned dirty ape!

uh... what? have you ever met Angel and/or Polish in person? they're really nice guys.

Oh and Cooterstrike sucks.

dunno if it sucks or not, but myself, i find it boring. plus, when i actually do try to play, i end up getting kicked from servers because people think i'm cheating. "Nobody can shoot that well on a modem with the (whatever the little cheap-ass plastic-looking sniper gun is called)!!" well, yeah, actually i can. i don't hit as much as they think i do, but that's because the "pip pip pop" of that baby sniper gun is usually lost in the roar of the full autos.

CS would be much more popular, i think, if so many server admins weren't paranoid dicks. but that's another story.
#23 by "Rambar"
2001-10-20 08:36:11
http://www.opencrap.org
Does anyone really have a problem with the towers not being in flight sims?  Seems a bit silly to want an innaccurate sim.
die
#24 by "Creole Ned"
2001-10-20 08:47:29
cned@telus.net
crash:
CS would be much more popular, i think, if so many server admins weren't paranoid dicks. but that's another story.

Considering it already eclipses UT, Q3, T2 and all the other FPS's in popularity, it ain't doing too shabby. :)

And as I said in the other thread, the CPL changes are silly. Insulting, really. I'd love to see an interview with whomever made the changes. It'd be fascinating to see the argument explained (and justified) at length.
#25 by "TheToadWarrior"
2001-10-20 10:32:35
toadwarrior@hotmail.com http://jove.prohosting.com/~toadw/
Someone needs to make a game based solely on the destruction of the WTC. Let the pinkos cry over that for awhile.
#26 by "Jeremy Witt"
2001-10-20 10:38:49
jeremywitt@evilemail.com
My favorite is "4. Sound wav. files containing explosion sounds have been deleted.". As far as I'm concerned, if there's any sound that you NEED in this type of game, IT'S THE FUCKING EXPLOSIONS! I suppose every time I hear the rocket launcher in Q3 I'll suffer a nauseating wave of flashback trauma and survivalist horror. Hmm?
#27 by "Gunp01nt"
2001-10-20 13:37:12
www.trance-energy.nl
Well, you could wait for it... I already found it strange that there was a crashed airplane in the post-911 released 1.3 version of CS (in that snowy level) and I was kinda expecting/fearing content cuts because CS is just so clearly about terrorism.

It IS necessary for the professional league though, as Jafd explained.
I just hope the sponsors don't end up demanding at least one american flag in full view all the time.
Or that the opera singing in cs_italy must be replaced with 'god bless america'. :)
#28 by "Anonymous"
2001-10-20 13:46:18
3DR is made up of Rain-men. They do things slowly, shop at K-mart and watch Wopner everyday at 4:00!  The past four years 3DR has produced nothing, but in the next four years they will produce twice as much nothing!!!  Alien Versus Predator just went Gold.  How many  other games and their sequels have come and gone since DNF's development?  There are too many to count.
#29 by "Foogla"
2001-10-20 13:55:30
Foogla@gmx.de
From a players view I am not really affected by this. I wont ever play at a CPL and the chance of playing against a clan that partakes is more than slim too.

I guess that holds true for everybody here.
#30 by "Dinglehoffen"
2001-10-20 14:47:34
Oh man...I nominate Anonymous for a Grammy. That's some consistently funny shit.
#31 by "Luke "Theseus" Nockles"
2001-10-20 14:53:52
lukenockles@hotmail.com http://planetluke.cjb.net/
Anonymous (#28):
3DR is made up of Rain-men. They do things slowly, shop at K-mart and watch Wopner everyday at 4:00! The past four years 3DR has produced nothing, but in the next four years they will produce twice as much nothing!!! Alien Versus Predator just went Gold. How many other games and their sequels have come and gone since DNF's development? There are too many to count.

You've just copied and pasted this from a forum post elsewhere.. ..at least make up your own material m8.
#32 by "Bailey"
2001-10-20 15:15:47
bailey@evilemail.com
Won't there be people hacking in the terrorist references as fast as they get patched out? /shrug.


I was under the impression this is strictly for the CPL, not for the next version of CS. Hence, hacking the game during the CPL might ruffles the judges' feathers, heh.

Something I noted the other night when I was playing through Deus Ex again, there doesn't seem to be WTC in the city skyline. I thought that was sort of odd, considering their size and all. Then I thought about the statue of liberty being busted up in the game. Was the WTC destroyed in the DX storyline? Just a feature that was overlooked for the skybox? I never really remember them mentioning much about it.

For flight sims, I think accuracy and being as current as possible is important, as far as landscape goes. This whole "terrorism makes people feel bad, so let's edit it out of all movies and games" is just mindless security blanket mentality. Immersing yourself in the context (such as the Osama models and WTC and hijack levels people have been cranking out) isn't much healthier though. Just tends to lead to clinical detachment.
#33 by "Anonymous"
2001-10-20 15:36:11
You've just copied and pasted this from a forum post elsewhere.. ..at least make up your own material m8.

Did it ever occur to you that Daddy goes into other chat rooms under other screen names?  It is my own material, dumb ass. Duh.
#34 by "Mankovic"
2001-10-20 15:36:32
You know, I think it is quite odd that the same people who think it's insensitive of a military member to write the word "FAG" on a device (that some media fuckwit shouldnt have had access to in the first place) that is designed to destroy both animal AND mineral(read:People and dwellings), also think that removing any instances of insensitive material from a popular game is somehow just as riduclous. Supporting the notion of removal of a word because it is insensitive to a certain small group of people, and at the same time decrying the CPL for removing that which may or may not offend someone, plainly illustrates how the media can affect peoples ability to apply common sense and deductive reasoning in determining what is an actual issue, and what is not.

[sarcasm]
Thank GOD I'm agnostic!
[/sarcasm]
#35 by "Wintermute"
2001-10-20 17:19:31
Here's a quotation that springs readiliy to mind...
We teach our men to drop fire on the gooks, yet their commanding officers won't let them write 'fuck' on their planes because its obscene.


Have to say that I'm more of a Rogue Spear fan, myself.
#36 by "Hugin"
2001-10-20 17:27:35
lmccain@nber.org
Mmmn..well, since I'm one of those people, here's my reasoning Mankovic:

I have gay friends.  I have no problem with gay people.  I think homophibia is bad, like drugs, mmm'kay?  Painting fag in a weapon that isn't even aimed at "fags" seems stupid to me. It looks juvenile, and our military's relationship with it's homosexual members, and homosexuality as a concept is already stupid enough.

On the other hand, terrorists and bombs exist.  It's not insulting or hateful to admit that they exist. Calling a bomb a "bomb" doesn't affirm and perpetuate anything negative against anyone.  Acts of terror and explosions of bombs (including thier sounds) have happened since what happened on Sept 11, and some of them had absolutely nothing to do with any of the Middle Eaqst/Bin Ladin/WTC stuff at all.  From a mental health point of view, I just don't believe it makes a lot of sense to try to pretend they don't.  And CPL ostentatiously doing so for thier event, somehow feels more like an exercise in post-WTC public relations apple polishing than any genuine desire to rethink the way we approach violence in entertainment in our society, or alternatively, a practical and genuine desire to take uncomfy concepts out of the game for sensitivity's sake.

There have been some instances where I've felt editing was okay.  For example, I haven't really minded the removal of the WTC buildings from productions that are supposed to represent "New York, today" when they're released (games or movies), because they really aren't there.  Removing them from older productions so that the memory of them doesn't make us sad is silly.

Your sig is cute.
#37 by "jafd"
2001-10-20 17:42:26
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
#36 Hugin
I think homophibia is bad, like drugs, mmm'kay?

Down with aspirin! Death to all fanatics!

Removing them from older productions so that the memory of them doesn't make us sad is silly.

Maybe due to the fact that I don't watch television, I haven't heard of any proposed or actual removals from older productions. What have I missed?

=====
I am a prototype for a much larger watchdog.
#38 by "Hugin"
2001-10-20 17:47:36
lmccain@nber.org
jafd, just in case the no TV thing includes old South Park, the "drugs are bad mm'kay" thing is in fact, a joke.
#39 by "jafd"
2001-10-20 17:50:35
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
I get tapes of South Park from a friend. So I get the reference. However, I am under the impression that "jokes" are supposed to be "funny?" Am I wrong about that?

=====
I am a prototype for a much larger commercial break.
#40 by "Luke "Theseus" Nockles"
2001-10-20 18:29:42
lukenockles@hotmail.com http://planetluke.cjb.net/
Anonymous (#33):
You've just copied and pasted this from a forum post elsewhere.. ..at least make up your own material m8.

Did it ever occur to you that Daddy goes into other chat rooms under other screen names? It is my own material, dumb ass. Duh.

It did.. ..unfortunate that you are this obsessed.  To care about any game so much is something sad.  To care specifically about when it's coming out??  Dates of release are irrelevant.
#41 by "Hugin"
2001-10-20 18:46:27
lmccain@nber.org
Yeesh jafd.  I wasn't being sarcastic, you said you didn't watch TV, I just didn't want you tobe under the impression I literally thought all drugs were bad.  I was sooner expecting to get nailed for misspelling homophobia.
#42 by "Bailey"
2001-10-20 19:02:50
bailey@evilemail.com
Hugin

Dude, it's homophibia, get it right.
#43 by "jafd"
2001-10-20 19:12:23
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
I was more concerned that you think homophobia is good. Since I saw from context that wasn't the case, I thought I'd bring it up. ;D

Bailey, it's homophilia, if the tip of your tongue weren't callused...

=====
I am a prototype for a much larger crack.
#44 by "Creole Ned"
2001-10-20 19:22:39
cned@telus.net
Yay for the troll feeders! It never gets old -- now in every thread!
#45 by "Luke "Theseus" Nockles"
2001-10-20 19:28:52
lukenockles@hotmail.com http://planetluke.cjb.net/
This Troll will tire.  He isn't good enough to get what he wants here.  Personally I actually want him to stay around for a while, I want to find out what the troll lifecycle is.  PC should allow for accelerated progression see.
#46 by "Bailey"
2001-10-20 19:35:58
bailey@evilemail.com
Keep you philias out of my phibias, jafd.

And keep your damn dog out of my rhodedendrons.
#47 by "Mankovic"
2001-10-20 19:45:21
Hugin in #36
On the other hand, terrorists and bombs exist.
So do fags.
It's not insulting or hateful to admit that they exist.
Then whats all the fuss?
Painting fag in a weapon that isn't even aimed at "fags" seems stupid to me.
Bet it would just ruin your American and Apple pie lovin day if one of those afghani bin laden types killed by such a bomb were actually gay right?...gimme a fukin break.
public relations apple polishing
nah.....too easy.....:)
#48 by "BobJustBob"
2001-10-20 19:53:49
kevinakabob@mindspring.com
#39 jafd
I get tapes of South Park from a friend. So I get the reference. However, I am under the impression that "jokes" are supposed to be "funny?" Am I wrong about that?


Is he implying that South Park is not funny? Let's get him!
#49 by "BobJustBob"
2001-10-20 19:59:24
kevinakabob@mindspring.com
Okay, I just read on Blue's that Motor City Online is gold. I am on dial-up and I couldn't care less about MMOG's, and I've never paid any attention to this one. But since I was bored, I checked out its webpage. And... am I missing something? How can you have a massively multiplayer racing game?
#50 by "asspennies"
2001-10-20 20:02:50
asspennies@counter-strike.net http://www.opencrap.org
#48 BobJustBob
Is he implying that South Park is not funny? Let's get him!

LYNCH MOB!!!!!

But no, I don't think that's what he was implying at all.
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