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Old Skool II: The Quickening
October 5th 2001, 22:18 CEST by m0nty

If the much-used analogy between the game industry and the movie industry has any credence, then the concept of the remake will take on more prominence as the game industry matures, and gains a greater back catalogue of obsolete (and cheap) licenses. We have just seen the way not to do a remake with Pool of Radiance which, apart from its showstopping technical bugs, is also drawing a lot of criticism for its old school turn-based dungeon crawl gameplay, which is foreign to teeny twitchers fed on a diet of Diablo and Baldur's Gate. Neverwinter Nights is another remake, but it is intended to extend the franchise way beyond the original game design. Similarly, Return to Castle Wolfenstein and the new Doom will look almost nothing like their original incarnations. Going back even further into gaming history (i.e. 1993), there is a new
Sam & Max X-Box game in the works.

Many questions spring to mind. If you remake a game, how much respect should you show the game design of the original, limited as it was to the technology of the day? Given the differences in technology, can there ever be a true "remake", or are all these same-named games just sequels? Are the right games being remade? Are there any games that are
too sacred to be remade? How far back is it possible to go? What would YOU like to see remade, and more importantly, which games if remade would actually be successful?
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#1 by "Foogla"
2001-10-05 22:25:27
Foogla@gmx.de
Will please, somebody make a remake of Master of Magic?
#2 by "Stepto"
2001-10-05 22:25:27
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
I have no idea what to say here since its my first first post.

S.
#3 by "Stepto"
2001-10-05 22:25:44
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
God damn you foogla.

S.
#4 by "Stepto"
2001-10-05 22:27:06
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
Actually please someone remake Carrier Command.  Also Thunderstrike.  Those games would make great Xbox/PS2 games.

S.
#5 by "funkdrunk"
2001-10-05 22:31:44
jflavius@bellatlantic@net
I would like to see a remake of Raid on Bungling Bay myself, but nobody asked me....


Funk.
#6 by "jeffd"
2001-10-05 22:35:53
jeffd@fags.gamersangst.com http://www.planetblah.com
Any sub sim.  Red Storm Rising would be awesome, or even just 688i.  I miss those games.

Also, a remake of the Sierra classic Manhunter would rule.

=JD
#7 by "Pacer Dawn"
2001-10-05 22:39:12
pacerdawn@iname.com http://www.triangledolfans.com
Actually, those should be considered sequels rather than re-makes.  A re-make should be thought of as the exact same game (story, maps, baddies, etc), but with updated technology.

#1 "Foogla" wrote...
Will please, somebody make a remake of Master of Magic?

Man, I can't tell you how many people I've seen screaming for a sequel, and to this day I don't know why they won't.  People keep saying to go with "Heros of Might and Magic" or something, but nothing yet has come close to beating out the classic MoM.

Hell, I would kill for another Starflight myself. Some fans were trying to get a fan-based SF3 project going, but I think that died.
#8 by "asspennies"
2001-10-05 22:40:21
asspennies@counter-strike.net http://www.opencrap.org
#6 jeffd
Also, a remake of the Sierra classic Manhunter would rule.

When you say "remake of the Sierra classic" I think of Space Quest 1's remake. *shudder*

Lose the remakes, boys.  New ideas.  They're neat.
#9 by "Ashiran"
2001-10-05 22:40:29
ashiran@ashrain.net http://wtf.couchcrew.com
Will please, somebody make a remake of Master of Magic?


Indeed!

And a remake of Magic Carpet, Alien Breed: Tower Assault(resident evil style), High Octance and Terminal Velocity.
#10 by "fyrewolf"
2001-10-05 22:40:56
Return to Castle Wolfenstein better have chests filled with Bratwurst and Sauerkraut!
#11 by "Hugin"
2001-10-05 22:41:39
lmccain@nber.org
I want a satisfying sequel to Elite.  Privateer never did it for me somehow...

I want the Maxis people to make an updated version of M.U.L.E.

I want an updated Archon, or to put it another way, I want Total Annihilation Kingdoms, but not sucky. And I don't mean Warcraft because Warcraft while nice is very cartoony.
#12 by "Ashiran"
2001-10-05 22:42:04
ashiran@ashrain.net http://wtf.couchcrew.com
but nothing yet has come close to beating out the classic MoM


I found Age of Wonders to come pretty close. And I think AoW2 will be the first to beat MoM.
#13 by "Houston"
2001-10-05 22:43:05
houstonx@pacbell.net
I think the best games to re-make are the simplest.  IE - puzzle games, like Tetris.  Puzzle games are still viable sellers without huge changes in gameplay, and they're still as fun as they ever were.

Every substance you add to a game adds to its level of complexity to re-make.  The character will never be the same, the enemy won't be the same, the design, the levels, the story, the UI, etc, etc.  Just more reasons for people to bitch.  Especially if it's done without any of the original designers.

Oh, and if I had to have any game re-made from the original.... Burger-Time 3D! :)
#14 by "crash"
2001-10-05 22:44:52
crash@planetcrap.com
m0nty, i gotta disagree with you here, at least in part. surprised? :) seriously. the new neverwinter nights only shares the name and milieu with the original. same goes for pool of radiance. the things that made both those games great are nowhere to be seen in their new versions. these aren't really remakes; they're more, uh, we'll call it a marketing ploy to appeal to the old-schooler. (because if PoR2 was indeed a remake, the reviews would be even more brutal--few of the elements that made the original what it was are conspicuously missing from the latest release.)

personally, straight remakes are great in theory, but in practice, they usually really suck unless the remake only borrows the straight subject matter from the original. RtCW is a good example of this--you're still blowin up Nazis in the eeeevil castle, but that's about the only connection.

given that aspect, i want to return to Skara Brae. or Britannia. badly.

jeffd: sub sim, though not as modern as the two you mentioned.
#15 by "Foogla"
2001-10-05 22:45:26
Foogla@gmx.de
Asspenies:

How about games that have so much replay value that they are still played today? All I am asking for is better graphics and multiplayer for MoM, I'd buy that in a blink. You don't have to change the gameplay.
#16 by "Stepto"
2001-10-05 22:45:30
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
re: sequal to elite


Independence War 2 is a lot like Elite.  Except its more plot focused.  Freelancer will probably be the same way.

S.
#17 by "Greg"
2001-10-05 22:46:13
greg417@worldnet.att.net http://www.insidemacgames.com
Two points:

1. I wouldn't agree that these are remakes. They are sequels, at least in intent if not name. PoRII is a sequel by definition. Neverwinter Nights may share the same name as the older game, but I would figure that is all it shares. Wolf doesn't explicitly say 2 (or 5 as it would following the lineage), and who knows what Doom will be finally called. We aren't talking the Atari/Hasbro remakes of Frogger, Pong, Space Invaders, etc, where the games are basically just graphical updates of the originals.

2. I take offense that Baldur's Gate is a twitch game. How could someone play Baldur's Gate like Diablo? Playing BG not turned-based, or at least without using the spacebar (pause) alot, is suicide. I've heard that PoR2 is slower-paced than Baldur's Gate, but that doesn't mean BG is full of fast paced action.

Anyway, I think much of this is based on nostalgia. People loved the Gold box games. People loved Wolf. People loved Doom. I don't know much about Sam and Max other than it was s'posed to be funny. People love reliving their past adventures. Even if the stories are different, if the characters or settings are what they remember, they'll flock. Movies have picked up on this, even to the point of crap like Rocky V, or Friday the 13th part 666. The trick is to use this judiciously, and use the lineage to make quality.

Greg
#18 by "SubcommandantePedro"
2001-10-05 22:47:20
subcom@zombieworld.com http://www.planetblah.com/
The new Wolfenstein better not make me wait 240 seconds to open a chest.
#19 by "Greg"
2001-10-05 22:49:45
greg417@worldnet.att.net http://www.insidemacgames.com
Ashiran - I would love to see an updated version of Magic Carpet (2 - since that is what I played first). Or at least a Win32 executable, similar to what the Exult guys are doing for Ultima 7.

Greg
#20 by "asspennies"
2001-10-05 22:58:38
asspennies@counter-strike.net http://www.opencrap.org
#15 Foogla
Asspenies:

How about games that have so much replay value that they are still played today? All I am asking for is better graphics and multiplayer for MoM, I'd buy that in a blink. You don't have to change the gameplay.

Oh I'm sure you'd buy it.  That's without question.  The question is - will anyone else?

If the answer is no, the game companies won't do it.
#21 by "Dualipuff"
2001-10-05 23:15:37
Duality@neo-tokyo.org http://urf.gq.nu
S&M2, I think has been officially dubbed a sequel.  Also from my understanding it won't be the point and click adventure puzzle game that the original was.  To be honest, I'm utterly astonished someone let this go for as long as it did.  S&M2 could have been the next overhyped poop pile spilled out to us over the last 8 years.  As Steve Purcell is working on it directly, this game alone will get me an Xbox (assuming it never hits the PC).

Doom and Wolf, I'm looking forward to simply for the curiosity factor.  I can't imagine them giving me the feel the originals gave me.  Its with this lack of expectation that will likely allow me to enjoy them.  Wolf most certainly, if for nothing else than the multiplayer.  I haven't even played any of the WW2 multiplayer games, but this one has a real smooth feel to it.  I expect it to be a rather tough sell against Medal of Honor.

What would I <i>like</i> to see as a remake?  Its incredibly simple.  COMBAT.  This was the first multiplayer game I've <b>ever</b> played.  I was but a wee lad and managed to thoroughly smoke my brother.  I just want a simple tank arena combat game for the PC.

-Dualipuff
Beer card -- release and dispel!!!
#22 by "jafd"
2001-10-05 23:15:47
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
Bilestoad.
#23 by "Matt"
2001-10-05 23:18:06
md@looroll.com http://looroll.com
Well if they released a new version of wolf and it looked like the old one would you buy it? Don't forget there are a lot of id fans out there that might not have even played it! a large part of the community I'm sure started following id with quake, and probably went back to try doom afterwards...

As for NWN and PoR:

They got the licence! they can do what they like with it as far as I'm concerned, if they screw it up in the process I won't buy it. Anyone who buys a game without doing research on it first (by reading reviews, talking to fools who have purchased it etc) only have themselves to blame.
#24 by "Anonymous"
2001-10-05 23:22:54
Cheap licenses?  Yes, indeed.  Like Spiderman the game.  Or Superman the Game.  Or Planet of the Apes.  Or, all those crappy third party out of house 3drealms sell out Duke games that have been pumped out over the past 5 years while we are waiting for Duke Nukem Forever.
#25 by "Pacer Dawn"
2001-10-05 23:24:02
pacerdawn@iname.com http://www.triangledolfans.com
#21 "Dualipuff" wrote...
What would I <i>like</i> to see as a remake? Its incredibly simple. COMBAT. This was the first multiplayer game I've <b>ever</b> played. I was but a wee lad and managed to thoroughly smoke my brother. I just want a simple tank arena combat game for the PC.

This game exist.  It's called Tanarus.
#26 by "Matt"
2001-10-05 23:31:41
md@looroll.com http://looroll.com
#21 Dualipuff

if you want combat, theres a q3a mod 'remake' of it, you can grab it here (no fileplanet needed):

#27 by "Matt"
2001-10-05 23:32:33
md@looroll.com http://looroll.com
Grrr, here actually...

combat.mindgrid.net
#28 by "Crusader"
2001-10-05 23:34:27
crusader@linuxgames.com http://www.linuxgames.com/
What would I like to see as a remake? Its incredibly simple. COMBAT. This was the first multiplayer game I've ever played. I was but a wee lad and managed to thoroughly smoke my brother. I just want a simple tank arena combat game for the PC.


Whatta coincidence. The only Q3A mod I've ever had any input on was Combat Quake III Arena.

There are also some screenshots here.
#29 by "Crusader"
2001-10-05 23:40:33
crusader@linuxgames.com http://www.linuxgames.com/
Also, please someone for the love of all that is holy remake Harpoon.

On the general subject of remakes, I have no problem with reinterpreting the original source material once better technology is available as long as you're fairly certain you can improve the original game and avoid George Lucas-syndrome (GREEDO DID NOT SHOOT FIRST DAMMIT).

Wolfenstein 3-D and DOOM remade to be more realistic (as both of the originals were limited by their respective engines to being cartoon caricatures), indeed, more movie-like, is keen.
#30 by "jeffd"
2001-10-05 23:44:00
jeffd@fags.gamersangst.com http://www.planetblah.com
Crusader #29
Also, please someone for the love of all that is holy remake Harpoon.


A Harpoon sequel is in development.

=JD
#31 by "Crusader"
2001-10-05 23:45:19
crusader@linuxgames.com http://www.linuxgames.com/

Any sub sim. Red Storm Rising would be awesome, or even just 688i. I miss those games.


Sub Command just came out, and it's from Sonalysts, the same outfit that did 688i. Same excruciatingly wonderful realism, new 3D engine (I disliked using the 3D view in 688i though...), and 2 new sub classes, the Akula and the Seawolf.
#32 by "Matt"
2001-10-05 23:54:59
md@looroll.com http://looroll.com
#11 Hugin

I'm under the impression that Elite is being remade for WAP (crappy phone tech) and Handhelds like Palm and PocketPC, due out next year. I've also seen some Ant Attack stuff for WAP, but I don't know if it was genuine or some clever photoslop editing.

--

I'd like a remake of StarGlider for the Atari ST, it was just box filled polys, be awesome to see it all textured up with a real world surrounding it.

#33 by "shaithis"
2001-10-06 00:10:58
cwb@shaithis.com http://www.shaithis.com
Someone needs to remake Darksun: The Shattered Lands (SSI).

NOW

-shai
#34 by "JMCDaveL"
2001-10-06 00:20:26
jmcdavel@mailandnews.com http://www.planetcrap.com
CORNCOB3D BEYATCH

--jmc
#35 by "Ryan Sutton-Gee"
2001-10-06 00:24:55
rsuttongNO@SPAMhome.com
Ashiran(#12): woah... thanks for the recommendation.. that game looks awesome! And on top of that, Amazon already has it at bargin bin prices.  Neeeaaat.  *grin*
#36 by "Bob"
2001-10-06 00:37:13
drbob@nomates.org
The world definitely needs a Carrier Command remake. Think what you could do with a modern 3D engine.

"Look at all the cheese!" "I didn't know they could do that."
#37 by "Bailey"
2001-10-06 00:50:27
bailey@evilemail.com
Also, a remake of the Sierra classic Manhunter would rule.


How about a goddamn conclusion to the trilogy first? They never finished the story. I hate that.

How about a remake of the ultra-realistic submarine game "In the Hunt" or something similar. I loved that game, heh.
#38 by "MCorleone"
2001-10-06 01:02:59
www.planetcrap.com
Star Control 2
Legacy of the Ancients
Hexen 1 please.
#39 by "Matthew Gallant"
2001-10-06 01:33:37
mg@tmbg.org http://www.opencrap.org
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
X-COM
#40 by "Pacer Dawn"
2001-10-06 01:34:40
pacerdawn@iname.com
#38 "MCorleone" wrote...
Star Control 2

This was a shameless ripoff of Starflight.  But I loved it. =)
#41 by "Caryn Law"
2001-10-06 01:37:59
carynlaw@pacbell.net
Syndicate. Not Syndicate Wars, either. Syndicate -- god, I LOVED that game.
#42 by "Gobalopper"
2001-10-06 01:40:47
Gobalopper@Dune2k.com http://www.dune2k.com/
Commander Keen, screw Duke Nukem. :)
#43 by "szcx codemonkey, PhD."
2001-10-06 01:45:05
leslie@leslienassar.com http://www.leslienassar.com/
Paradroid, Uridium, Quake, Syndicate.  they're the games i want remade.  obey!
#44 by "Hugin"
2001-10-06 02:01:40
lmccain@nber.org
#41 Syndicate. Not Syndicate Wars, either. Syndicate -- god, I LOVED that game.


The Persuadatron was the neatest weapon ever.  Nothing like leading a giant shambling mass of persuaded zombies into a fight.  Death from fire was also great, with the little people running pack and forth screaming....man...I need to go load that game up again.
#45 by "K"
2001-10-06 02:07:19
Out of This World

Impossible Mission (I imagine it would be even more fun if I knew how to play it)
#46 by "Paul Saarnak"
2001-10-06 02:08:52
paul@gaffophone.com
H.E.R.O.

...on the other hand, perhaps not. Don't mess with perfection.
#47 by "Jadawin"
2001-10-06 02:16:26
Amen to the Master of Magic remake. There are a lot more people out there than you think that want this- there's a thread over on Ars Technica's Gaming forum about MoM, as well. Some good links in it, too.
#48 by "mgns"
2001-10-06 02:24:03
wratte@home.se
I dunno, remakes...

Hero Quest I?

---
my other .sig is funny one.
#49 by "Slappy"
2001-10-06 02:29:57
jlmdesyn@sonic.net
I thought that 90% of the games released this year on the PC were already remakes.
#50 by "EricFate"
2001-10-06 03:04:34
ericfate@yahoo.com http://www.opencrap.org
I'd much rather see them go through and clean up a lot of the older games for modern use rather than making new versions with new features.

I'd be happier with a front end program that could read all the old Gold Box style SSI AD&D games, and give me crisp, distinct graphics and no more need for that damn "paragraph book" than I would with a version of it rewritten to be played in the Bioware engine.

I'd be happier with a version of M.U.L.E. that I didn't have to use an emulator to load than I would with a version that had a musical score by Ry Cooder and ray traced graphics with lens-flare o'plenty.

Archon was perfect.  Archon Deluxe was crap.  Go back to the original, and change it from CGA to SVGA color and you have a winner.

The key is in being able to eliminate the Boot Disk and the need for programs like SloMo, not in being able to capture the setting and flavor in an all new product.

The only new products that need to come out based on older titles are ones which complete an abandoned story arc.

(You know what piece of software I really miss?  Back on the C-64, Compute...i think it was...distributed the machine language code for a simple little game called Laser Chess.  There was a beautiful remake of this game done on the Amiga where someone made an all new prism set and since my floppy went bad, I've no longer been able to locate it anywhere.)
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