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T O P I C
Digital River frags id
October 2nd 2001, 05:00 CEST by Whisp

More news from the collapse of gaming on the internet: (shamelessly ripped from blues...)

Archive situation at cdrom.com October 1, 2001 by Ty Halderman & Frans P. de Vries
As many of you may be aware, the master DOOM and Quake community archives at cdrom.com have been inaccessible over the last week or so. This note is an open letter to the communities involved, from the archive maintainers Ty Halderman and Frans de Vries. Where it says "we" below, it is the two of us we refer to. We hope this will at least partially explain what is and has been going on.  As of about the 21st of September, 2001, Digital River (the owners of the cdrom.com server) denied public access to the idgames/ (DOOM-engine games) and idgames2/ (Quake-engine games) archive file trees. This was, according to notes reflected on Doomworld (but not sent to us, the maintainers) a temporary condition due to unusual bandwidth needs. The expectation was that by early the following week, things would be back to normal.  Since then, we have been informed by Bill Dickson, Senior Manager, Download Technologies, Digital River that our maintenance accounts on cdrom.com are locked and will not be restored, and that the future of the archives (if any) will be handled by people who work for Digital River, outside the DOOM/Quake community. Unfortunately, he only told us this after several days of lockout and in response to email queries from us. Until that response, we had absolutely no idea what was going on.  As you might imagine, we started out royally peeved and insulted, after having spent so much time as volunteers to support the community. We have since been dusting off our contingency plans that were formulated some time ago, when Digital River first announced that no one should link to their site directly and that there would only be paying customers from now on.  At that time, however, we were assured that, at least temporarily, we would be able to continue the archives on cdrom.com. We expected that an exit from that situation would be handled with discussions, planning and professionalism on both sides. At least we have been professional on our side.  It may take us a bit of time to completely implement our plan for hosting and mirroring the official archives, but we will inform you of the new situation as soon as everything is in place.  Rest assured that we have now, as we have had for years of volunteer efforts, the best interests of the id Software community in mind. We may ask for some assistance from other members of the community as we finalize our plans, and appreciate your patience in the meantime.  -----  Ty Halderman Frans P. de Vries

Does this mean anything anymore, or has the the dotcom collapse left us all so blase about the whole site-shutting-down thing that it's hard to even care?  Furthermore, why do these companies feel the need to jerk around and lie to their customers and users?  Even if they have to shut down, a graceful exit with some preparation time for the affected admins always leaves a better taste in people's mouths, yet time after time we see the pattern of sudden "technical problems" followed by inexplicable access denials, reorganizations, or even complete shutdowns, with no chance for the maintainers to rescue or transfer the data they own, and no comment from the service providers.
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#1 by "BobJustBob"
2001-10-02 05:01:30
kevinakabob@mindspring.com
First again.... oh so easy....
#2 by "krazor"
2001-10-02 05:02:56
yeah@right.com
You  suck Bob!
#3 by "BobJustBob"
2001-10-02 05:07:19
kevinakabob@mindspring.com
#2 "krazor" wrote...
You suck Bob!


Thanks! I feel the love; as far as I'm concerned, this place is still PlanetHappy. =]
#4 by "Creole Ned"
2001-10-02 05:09:07
cned@telus.net
Thanks for the contribution, Bob.

The topic: Clearly, many people in the Internet "business" think that regular business practices and professionalism do not apply to web-based offerings. I only hope that this mentality doesn't spread to businesses outside of the Internet.
#5 by "EricFate"
2001-10-02 05:09:51
ericfate@yahoo.com http://www.opencrap.org
Does this mean anything anymore, or has the the dotcom collapse left us all so blase about the whole site-shutting-down thing that it's hard to even care?


They were still around?  I didn't realize folks even submitted material to cdrom.com anymore.
#6 by "The Joker"
2001-10-02 05:14:36
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
I can see it now, the future of the Internet is......and here it comes.....PORN. It'll just be funded and completely running on porn. We might as well change the name to Interporn or Pornnet soon. As soon as a site starts offering naked pictures of Caryn, I'm signing up no matter what it costs, god damn it!

Joker, Phd. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
#7 by "BobJustBob"
2001-10-02 05:25:44
kevinakabob@mindspring.com
#4 "Creole Ned" wrote...
Thanks for the contribution, Bob.


Oh, you mean this little discussions actually mean something? I thought it was just filler distracting me from the real purpose, a wonderfully slow-paced MMOG whose sole purpose is to get the first post in a new topic! Damn, and just when I was taking the lead, too.

As for contributing, I think I am desensitized to this stuff now. Companies shutting down, going subscription only, screwing the consumers and the employees, it's all been done before. This one affects me less than most, because I never accessed it.
#8 by "krazor"
2001-10-02 05:32:08
yeah@right.com
Don't let 'em distract ya Bob! You just keep right on with yer bad self!


BTW:  8th!!
#9 by "JMCDaveL"
2001-10-02 05:41:48
jmcdavel@mailandnews.com http://www.robotbastard.com
I have never understood the orgasmic joy some people get for having a certain post number.

--jmc
#10 by "JMCDaveL"
2001-10-02 05:42:04
jmcdavel@mailandnews.com http://www.robotbastard.com
10TH ROOFLE OWNED K THX BYE!!!!! WOOOOOT

--jmc
#11 by "jafd"
2001-10-02 05:55:33
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
#0 Whisp
why do these companies feel the need to jerk around and lie to their customers and users?

At a guess, it is because 90% of their users and customers appear to be utter fucktards to the business people, much like the average business/marketing person appears to be a fucktard from the PoV of the average gamer. I doubt that these guys actually wrung their hands together and said, "Yeah, this'll get some back! Woot!" Likely, they just did that in the backs of their minds.

Nothing has brought people together closer and faster than the internet. And nothing breeds contempt, like familiarity... ?

Folks like Frans and Ty just get caught in the thresher. Probably subconsciously, they are thought of as loons, for spending so much time on projects devoted to aforementioned utter fucktards.

I can't wait to hear what their back-up plan is. They gonna strike a blow against The Man, or what?

=====
I am a prototype for a much larger gladiator.
#12 by "The Joker"
2001-10-02 05:56:06
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
#10 JMCDaveL
10TH ROOFLE OWNED K THX BYE!!!!! WOOOOOT--jmc


This is what happens when morn or whoever is responsible decides to post too many topics at a time.

Joker, Phd. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
#13 by "m0nty"
2001-10-02 06:02:44
paul.montgomery@delphigroup.com.au http://www.delphiconsulting.com.au
Joker, this is a rare occasion when you say something that is half-sensible. Direct your wang at Gabe.
#14 by "The Joker"
2001-10-02 06:20:08
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
#13 m0nty
Joker, this is a rare occasion when you say something that is half-sensible. Direct your wang at Gabe.


m0nty, this is one of those rarely rare occasions that you actually understand what i'm saying.

my wang is currently aimed at Gabe, make no mistake about it.

Joker, Phd. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
#15 by "None-1a"
2001-10-02 06:30:16
http://www.opencrap.org
#4 Creole Ned
The topic: Clearly, many people in the Internet "business" think that regular business practices and professionalism do not apply to web-based offerings. I only hope that this mentality doesn't spread to businesses outside of the Internet.


Acctauly it does. If you tell them ahead of time they do nothing untill the day comes, that or they start screwing things up to get back at the company (for example deleting any file they worked on). Waiting untill the last minute pervents a lot of that.

There was probably some fear on Digital River's part that if they where told they'd start deleting those files from the server. Tho I can't see why they'd care since the only reason they'd want to keep them is if they where handing it off to someone inside the company (which doesn't make since buiness wise since they'd need to pay for it then).
#16 by "Warren Marshall"
2001-10-02 06:39:22
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicboy.com
But if that was their fear, why not just run a backup tape?  There  Problem solved.  Now you can treat those remote admins with respect ...
#17 by "shaithis"
2001-10-02 07:46:44
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.shaithis.com
While I agree wholeheartedly that the situation could have been handled with significantly more professionalism (though such professionalism is not always possible, as companies quite literally do not always see problems coming more than a day or two away), the actual locking of the archive and canceling of the volunteer accounts does not surprise me at all.

When people look at the internet of 1998, and the internet of 2003, They're going to be looking at entities with only passing similarities to each other. This is only yet another tiny, incremental step in that evolution.

(note: I'm not saying it's a good evolution. Nor am I saying it's a bad evolution. That could be debated forever, and no one will ever be right).

-shai
#18 by "TheToadWarrior"
2001-10-02 07:54:25
toadwarrior@hotmail.com http://jove.prohosting.com/~toadw/
It's a damn shame since cdrom.com was the best place for doom and Quake related stuff. It's harder to find that stuff these days but it's still in demand.
#19 by "Bailey"
2001-10-02 08:26:12
bailey@evilemail.com
I never knew how it was possible to hold 99.99% of the human race in complete and utter loathing.

Then I got net access.
#20 by "Eris"
2001-10-02 08:35:50
#19

I never knew how it was possible to hold 99.99% of the human race in complete and utter loathing.

Then I got net access.

_________________________

Didn't happen to me until I started doing consumer technical support.
#21 by "m0nty"
2001-10-02 08:40:18
paul.montgomery@delphigroup.com.au http://www.delphiconsulting.com.au
Bailey (#19):
I never knew how it was possible to hold 99.99% of the human race in complete and utter loathing.

Then I got net access.

But Joker is only one person!
#22 by "Flamethrower"
2001-10-02 09:40:45
patch@evilemail.com www.Jesus-vs-Judas.com
Am I the only one tryly gutted CD-ROM is not infinitely available? =(
#23 by "piramida"
2001-10-02 11:37:05
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
First BBSes, now cdrom.com, then all other free ftps will follow soonish (as demand for their contents increases with each major archive going down) and we'll be left with subscribe-only files download. And then we are only one step from "insert your credit card in a special slot in your network card to access the Internet". Kinda makes sense though - Internet was free only as long as someone was paying for it, since it never stopped costing money. Now that companies and investors don't feel like sponsoring few million free-downloading hippies, someone else would have to pay.
#24 by "Foogla"
2001-10-02 12:56:23
Foogla@gmx.de
First, welcome back piramida.

But I think I agree with Desiato (or was it Darkseid? Or Dethstryk? I always mix them up :/ ), this could lead to p2p-planet (hope it's not run by GSI ;P ).
#25 by "Evi|ivE"
2001-10-02 12:57:16
The state of downloading game files is turning into shit real fast...  I used to have 20 ftp sites in my list that I could connect to and download whatever I wanted (not warez, just game files).  Boy how times have changed.  

File Planet can kiss my ass.  I'm not paying someone to use a server so I can download with my 56k line...  One half way decent thing is the peer to peer networks.  Most demos, and patches find their way on those networks, but there is no such thing as an archive with those.  You just grab what you were lucky enough to find.

I know this would be expensive, but why don't game companies offer to host some of this stuff?  It's this kind of content that keeps games like Doom and Quake 2 alive.  Why don't id open an ftp?  Like I said, from a business standpoint, it may cost a lot of money, but how can you expect other people to host files for free when the game developers won't even bother to do it?
#26 by "piramida"
2001-10-02 13:50:01
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
#24 Foogla
First, welcome back piramida.


hi :)

But I think I agree with Desiato (or was it Darkseid? Or Dethstryk? I always mix them up :/ ), this could lead to p2p-planet (hope it's not run by GSI ;P ).


As in gnutella-like file sharing? Distributed instead of centralized? That might be possible, unless cable modem/DSL providers would take some counter-measures if it gets really popular. I think their low prices are based on the average joe's downloading habits, of few hundred Mb per day max, with almost no upload. When that joe starts sharing a 300Mb demo to dozens of other jacks @Home might start worrying.
#27 by "Eyegore"
2001-10-02 14:04:10
Do you think there really is a download cue for fileplanet's public downloads or is it just an arbitrary timer counting down until you're annoyed enough at the wait to considder subscribing?  Personally I think it's just a big stinky ploy to get subscribers but I'm curious what others think.
#28 by "Houston"
2001-10-02 14:14:50
houstonx@pacbell.net Opencrap.rocksdahouse.org
I actually got a FilePlanet subscription

way worth it.  Plus, when I think about it, I'm indirectly contributing to Shaithis being able to eat.  For my $7, I better see a smile!
#29 by "Jeremy Witt"
2001-10-02 15:18:42
jeremywitt@evilemail.com
Didn't happen to me until I started doing consumer technical support.

Didn't happen to me until I had to hire consumer technical support.

But I think I agree with Desiato (or was it Darkseid? Or Dethstryk? I always mix them up :/ ), this could lead to p2p-planet (hope it's not run by GSI ;P ).


As in gnutella-like file sharing?

We've talked about this before, and it won't/shouldn't work. That requires trusting P2P-provided executables, and people should not be that trusting.

I actually got a FilePlanet subscription

Me too (thanks Warren) and let me say: Huzzah! It's funny to be so excited about something that was previously taken for granted. But hey, that's the new intarweb...
#30 by "Ralack"
2001-10-02 15:32:12
ralack@hotmail.com
The corporate interest of preventing employee sabotage is slowly winning out over the human side of the issue.  I can see the problem that a company would have with people causing problems after hearing that they are getting axed... but can they NOT see the damage that they cause with such a seemingly callous policy?

My brother was let go suddenly, with no warning... leaving him and his family high and dry.  They had recently made the stretch to buy a house, and were instantly caught short by the unexpected termination of income.  And companies wonder why employees are always looking around at what other jobs are out there?  Loyalty should work both ways IMHO.  But the company comes first... always the company.

Disclaimer - I know there are exceptions to the above rule, but I believe them to be firmly in the minority.
#31 by "Ralack"
2001-10-02 15:34:13
ralack@hotmail.com
Please forgive my ignorance... but why exactly is it that bandwidth costs are so high?  You'd think with the harvesting of long distance phone call fees... there would be enough money to support beefing up the backbone lines... am I wrong?  Who knows about this stuff?
#32 by "jafd"
2001-10-02 16:04:34
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
#31 Ralack
why exactly is it that bandwidth costs are so high?

For much the same reason that drugs cost way, way more than they cost to produce.

Eventually, everything will fall apart, and the folks at the top who "sell bandwidth" will drop prices to remain competitive. Until then, they're content to let us eat cake. They know we will.

=====
I am a prototype for a much larger signature.
#33 by "Hugin"
2001-10-02 16:10:24
lmccain@nber.org
Well, I help provide bandwidth to a very small (comparatively) set of users, a few hundred people.  

Basically "bandwidth", which by the definition of joe or jane average gamer/high end net citizen means "low ping times", "no lag", "fast downloads of demos and patches and pr0n", and "little or no downtime", requires a lot of equipment to work in a way that would make anyone happy.  

That equipment is hideously expensive.  Moreover, the people you need to hire to make it all go are hideously expensive. And finally, a significant number of joe and jane average gamer/high end net citizens are also, as jafd so delicately put it, utter fucktards, who actively do things to the network as a whole that jack up the repair, support, and administration costs even higher than they need to technically be.  

Add to this the problem that, whatever the costs are to run things, high or low, a good chunk of the people you are trying to serve (joe and jane gamers and occasional fucktards) really really really hate ever paying for anything. So, even if your costs are reasonable, figuring out a workable revenue scheme is tough.

Many, many companies trying to deal with that conundrum have died.  Worse, a whole bunch of smaller hobbyists trying to keep it real for the love of..well, whatever they're devoting thier little accounts to, can't do it either.

Free won't work as long as things actually cost money.

Pay won't work as long as so many don't want to pay.

Advertising largely doesn't work anymore, and that's across many industries, not just the web/gaming world. (in minor news that no one here will probably care about, Mademoiselle magazine just got axed)  Now, given an economic upswing and some clever marketing ideas, advertising might make somewhat of a comeback, but folks will complain bitterly about it all day and all night, and try to block it, and then anti-blocking features will be added, and folks will complain all day and all night again...etc etc.
#34 by "Pacer Dawn"
2001-10-02 16:13:30
pacerdawn@iname.com http://www.triangledolfans.com
#29 "Jeremy Witt" wrote...
Huzzah!

OOOOH, seeing this stuff reminds me that I am driving up to the Maryland Renaissance Faire this weekend!!!  I CAN'T FREAKING WAIT!!!!  Curse you, now I have to get my mind off it again so I can get back to work...
#35 by "Hugin"
2001-10-02 16:23:49
lmccain@nber.org
jafd, I'd agree with your drug company thing if the bandwidth providers were fantastically profitable the way the drug companies largely are.  They aren't.  Many many providers have failed and died under the current economic model, the few that remain are living off the carcasses of the fallen, bought up cheap.  The net business of the giants (ComHugeNetAmerica&T@YourEternalSoul or whatever it'll be called when all the mergers and aqcuistions are done with) that remain may or not be sucessful over the next 2-5 years, but overall the situation isn't quite the same as the evil being perpetrated on the sick poor/third world by drug companies.
#36 by "Jeremy Witt"
2001-10-02 16:28:07
jeremywitt@evilemail.com
Hmm. Hisse (mid Eng, to heave) -> Huzzah -> Hurrah. Language history can be interesting...

has the the dotcom collapse left us all so blase about the whole site-shutting-down thing that it's hard to even care?

Yes. There are very few sites that I would actually be suprised to see shut down.
#37 by "jafd"
2001-10-02 16:43:32
kallisti@hell.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
#35 Hugin
jafd, I'd agree with your drug company thing if the bandwidth providers were fantastically profitable the way the drug companies largely are.  They aren't.

Realistically, for sure. This is very true. However, theoretically, bandwidth is just electricity, isn't it? Yes, lots of other costs involved, very much so. It is still all just electrons, plus the (admittedly highly complex and currently expensive) infrastructure that transmits them.

overall the situation isn't quite the same as the evil being perpetrated on the sick poor/third world by drug companies.

Only because the internet business is embryonic compared to the addiction industry. Mr. Big is frothing at the mouth, trying to get positioned to where he can finally get clear of this tedious plastic-and-middleman-wasteland we have now.

That is where it is headed, or where it is being driven, whichever. Let's face it; we all of us, for the most part, are perfectly happy to do without our weekly allotment of smack, or caffeine, or sugar, or whatever, if need be. But five minutes without email access? What, are you crazy mad?? It isn't just people that are, and are becoming, fantastically dependent on the internet. It is the whole economy, the whole way that we live. Et cetera.

It ain't no coincidence they called it "push" technology. Har. Eventually, all this tedious engineering and whatrot will be taken care of, and we can just talk to the computer and it'll access whatever content we want, lickety-split, almost as fast as it will charge our accounts. Assuming the planet hasn't been engulfed in flames before then, that is.

Hey, crash, you were right! My name looks just way hoopyer uncapitalized at the beginning of the sentence. Thanks, Hugin! ;)

=====
I am a prototype for a much larger p1mp.
#38 by "piramida"
2001-10-02 16:56:04
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
#36 Jeremy Witt
Yes. There are very few sites that I would actually be suprised to see shut down.


.gov ones? :)
#39 by "Sgt Hulka"
2001-10-02 17:37:21
judas@priest.com http://www.buymeagun.com
If anything, I think this makes a program like Napster, but only for game demos, addons, levels, more viable.  Perhaps we could call it crapster?  :)

Now, who wants to start writing it?
#40 by "piramida"
2001-10-02 17:43:51
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
#39 Sgt Hulka
Now, who wants to start writing it?


Welcome to Gnutella world :) It's not limited to mp3s, video and pr0n (though it often looks like that).
#41 by "Caryn Law"
2001-10-02 17:52:52
carynlaw@pacbell.net
#25 Evi|ivE
Why don't id open an ftp?  Like I said, from a business standpoint, it may cost a lot of money, but how can you expect other people to host files for free when the game developers won't even bother to do it?


They do already, actually. When they release a file, they first do so on ftp.idsoftware.com/pub/blah . Prior to releasing it there, they usually disseminate it to people willing to mirror it because their own ftp won't be able to support the number of people who want to download it.
#42 by "Bailey"
2001-10-02 17:55:11
bailey@evilemail.com
Evi|ivE:

File Planet can kiss my ass. I'm not paying someone to use a server so I can download with my 56k line... One half way decent thing is the peer to peer networks.


If it came down to P2P sharing of Wolfenstein demos, 56K users could kiss my ass too. Taking 2 days to get a decent sized file off me is not going to happen.
#43 by "Xian"
2001-10-02 19:29:05
xian@idsoftware.com
#33,

 Bandwidth prices are dropping drasticly. From now on, we only sign one year contracts with our upstream provider because we know that a year from now, prices will be lower.

 You would not believe how many ISP's call me on a monthly basis asking if we're happy with our current provider, are we shopping around, are we interested in a quote ? Thankfully, I'm quite pleased with Savvis, both from a price standpoint and quality of their "product" (namely, their backbone).

 Just last week, I had an offer from someone who asked if we'd be interested in switching if they could offer us a full 45mbps DS3 for $10k a month (I politely declined)

 Remember, it wasn't all that long ago, that a full 45mbps DS3 would have cost around $78k per month...

 Food for thought.

 -Xian
#44 by "MCorleone"
2001-10-02 19:36:49
www.planetcrap.com
29:  If you could somehow have a centralized server that stored CRC's (Like SFV files maybe) of official releases, then filtered out anything that was tampered, then I think a P2P system could work.  bandwidth to the server storing the <1k sfv file would be minimal, with the peers bearing the whole load of the files...
#45 by "Gabe"
2001-10-02 19:53:40
gabe@opencrap.org http://www.opencrap.org
#43 Xian
Thankfully, I'm quite pleased with Savvis, both from a price standpoint and quality of their "product" (namely, their backbone).

Not sure this drop in price is doing the companies any good.

-- Gabe
#46 by "Mankovic"
2001-10-02 20:12:39
Hugin wrote in #33
Well, I help provide bandwidth to a very small (comparatively) set of users, a few hundred people.


Are you talking about the ISP level here?

An acquaintance of mine owns a local ISP here where I live, has somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 customers being served on multiple channelized(cheaper) T-1's. Using the low end price of 19.95 a month for unlimited 56k dialup, (not counting the couple hundred of isdn/dsl customers at 39.95/49.95 a month respective) he rakes in an estimated 24k a month just in residential access fees on the low end. Not to mention the extra few grand he rakes in for webhosting certain local bussiness'. He runs the show himself, does his own maintenance, and owns the building he is located in. I called him up just a little while ago and asked him about this whole internet revenue slowdown thing and his take on the local aspects of things. He said the whole problem is that people are paying for bandwidth, that by all rights, has already been paid for in one form or another. I asked him about the money that residential customers pay and how that plays in the big picture of things, he told me that he maintains above a 30% margin on his residential accounts due to the oversubscription percentages he uses, and that his webhosting accounts are pure gravy.

This is the part that I dont understand as a layman, if his T-1's cost him the same every month regardless of the amount of traffic they see, and his ISP fees more than cover his overhead to the tune of a 30% margin, why would he or any other provider have to charge such high rates for webhosting services? Am I missing something here? Is it greed?

All I know is that I now pay damn near 130.00 a month(30.00 of that is for the phone line) for my new dsl sevice, to have the ability to access the net, and download anything that is free, for free. Can someone give me an idea how much bandwidth(based on the current market) that 100.00 a month would buy me if I were running a hosted website? I'm curious about this now after talking to him.
#47 by "crash"
2001-10-02 20:31:47
crash@planetcrap.com
Mankovic:

I asked him about the money that residential customers pay and how that plays in the big picture of things, he told me that he maintains above a 30% margin on his residential accounts due to the oversubscription percentages he uses, and that his webhosting accounts are pure gravy.

that 30% margin is sort of on the high side. the only reason he's gotten away with it so far is his users aren't powersurfers or whatever. to put it another way, if all his users started staying logged on 24/7, he'd be fucked until he bought more bandwidth--at which point his profit margin would evaporate. also, the web hosting deal depends on a certain level of usage, which, again, is apparently not being met. and it's the casual users/small homepages thing.

ask him how his costs would rise if his users started serving demos on their host space. or if they started doing 24/7 gnutella. his profit margins depend on a certain predictability of usage. all profit margins do. this is why bandwidth is relatively inexpensive if you buy it in bulk, but the "spike" rates spiral dramatically.

as far as i know, anyway. that's what my experience has been.

This is the part that I dont understand as a layman, if his T-1's cost him the same every month regardless of the amount of traffic they see...

they don't. he's overselling his lines to keep his usage at or near 100% of what he's paying for on his end. rough bad-math example: he has, say, 100 units of bandwidth. he's selling 130 units of bandwidth per month, depending on his users to only use 75% of what they're paying for per month. ask him how much it'd cost him if his 30% oversell used every scrap of access they had all month long. provided, of course, he's even got the hardware to support all his users being on all the time.
#48 by "Warren Marshall"
2001-10-02 20:36:41
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicboy.com
Houston
I actually got a FilePlanet subscription

way worth it. Plus, when I think about it, I'm indirectly contributing to Shaithis being able to eat. For my $7, I better see a smile!

Damn right it's worth it.  I've downloaded tons of demos, patches, etc ... all at blazing speeds with zero wait time.

This is the new internet kids.  Welcome!  :)
#49 by "Matthew Gallant"
2001-10-02 20:52:41
mg@tmbg.org http://www.opencrap.org
#44 MCorleone
29:  If you could somehow have a centralized server that stored CRC's (Like SFV files maybe) of official releases, then filtered out anything that was tampered, then I think a P2P system could work.  bandwidth to the server storing the <1k sfv file would be minimal, with the peers bearing the whole load of the files...


eDonkey ( http://www.edonkey2000.com ) can be made to allow clients only to share files that match a hash on the server's approved list. I haven't looked into how that feature is enabled, but the guys at www.mst3kdap.org have an eDonkey server running that uses it.

eDonkey is a very fine program in general as well. You can download different pieces of a single file from several other users at once (others can in turn download the parts that you've gotten so far from you), limit your upload rate (which also limits your download rate, limiting leeching) to keep from saturating your connection, and resume downloads after a shutdown/crash. It also has error checking built in.
#50 by "Hugin"
2001-10-02 20:56:25
lmccain@nber.org
crash got to it first Mankovic.  Your buddy is lucky enough to be running a service for what seem to be low end users.  The comments I made really only apply to users of isdn/dsl/cable connections and the companies that provide that or associated services.  My mom and her twice a day emailing  for 19.95 a month aren't killing these companies.  It's me and my damn mp3 downloading and multiplayer online gaming and distributed client number crunching 24 hours a day, every day, that's killing them.
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