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Punkbuster has left the game...
September 28th 2001, 06:47 CEST by Foogla

Punkbuster, the popular anticheat tool for Half-Life and various mods, has decided to stop support for them. In light of the recent bugs (these are all demos) this may very well be the death of casual/competitive play on the internet.
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#1 by "Houston"
2001-09-28 06:47:53
houstonx@pacbell.net Opencrap.rocksdahouse.org
WOO!
#2 by "Houston"
2001-09-28 06:57:03
houstonx@pacbell.net Opencrap.rocksdahouse.org
To give a little more back story... on 9.25.2001, this was posted on the Punkbuster Website

On a sad note to honest players of Counter-Strike and Half-Life mods, we have determined that the current version of PunkBuster cannot be appreciably improved without the direct support of VALVe. We have offered to do business with VALVe on multiple occasions in the way of integrating proven Anti-Cheat technology directly into their games. At this time, we are suspending development of the Half-Life version to focus on game platforms where the developer is willing to support the effort. We sincerely believe that we have had a positive impact on the Half-Life community and we truly appreciate the support of our hundreds of thousands of users. However, from the beginning we have said that we did not want to charge users directly for our product and we intend to abide by that decision. The remaining bugs, problems, issues, etc. with the Half-Life version cannot be addressed properly without direct integration with the game, and at this time, there is no hope of that even being a possibility.


So, from my understanding, there have been some posts to internet messageboards from friends of the PunkBuster team and the team itself, as well as supported by statements on the PunkBuster website that PunkBuster, once a free Third Party software package, has "gone commerical" and will now be charging developers for their technology.

These bring two thoughts to my mind.  First, of course, will this mark the return of massive cheating to Counter-Strike?  Those of us who have played it remember the rampant cheating before PunkBuster.  Although cheaters eventually found ways around PunkBuster, it did stop the "casual cheater".  

Second, it is an interesting business experiment.  Let the audience get a taste, and then sell it to the producers, rather than simply talk to the producers at first.  Just something I see in there, post your own monkey.
#3 by "m0nty"
2001-09-28 07:02:31
paul.montgomery@delphigroup.com.au http://www.delphiconsulting.com.au
Wasn't online playing already dead? It's looking sickly, in any case, with the implosion of Anarchy Online, the phoenix-like death of Lum The Mad, and the cancellation of Simsville.

On Punkbusters, it looks to me as if they are trying out a revenue model (ref the last thread), and this is one of the early rounds in their battle to the death with the Giant Robot Monkey God of Small Business. They have thrown a punch, and judging from their last post that Valve had sniffed at the bait (to mix a metaphor), they may have some success. GameSpy and whoever makes Installshield seem to have done well in a similar niche, by selling generically useful code to dev houses, so I don't see why Punkbusters can't do the same.
#4 by "Warren Marshall"
2001-09-28 07:04:37
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicboy.com
I read something about an OpenSource replacement for PunkBuster getting underway.  Which sort of makes me smile because I can't imagine how that works.

Lock the door then hand the thieves the key.  ;)
#5 by "HoseWater"
2001-09-28 07:13:03
http://refracted.com/opencrap
Don't be silly Warren, the internet is practically built on opensource software.  

The key is to not build security by obscurity, but by peer review.  

Certainly going to be a challenge though.

:)
#6 by "Paul"
2001-09-28 07:18:17
deleted deleted
bah, i whoop cheaters anyway.

Frankly, i like a good mix of cheaters, makes me a better player. And, i also stick to a few servers where there are always admins, and there are rarely problems. When there are cheaters, the boot is on. The lowest pings usually win, and that's the way it should be.

Now a cheater with a very low ping is wrong.

- Paul
#7 by "Anonymous"
2001-09-28 07:24:55
http://www.opencrap.org
Some interesting things to note about PunkBuster.

PunkBuster is a client server setup where the client software scans running task on connection(and drivers) for known cheat software on connection, and players are randomly checked every 10 minutes after that. Depending on how the admin has it setup it then warns/boots the cheating players (and makes a log of it).

Right now as a tired party utility it's totaly up to you if you want to submit to this to have a clean cheat free game. Depending on if it's being simply included with the game or included directly in the games code (of even just a default start with game command) there are some privacy issuse with this. If it's included in the game code or starts with it your being submited to scaning and loging even if the server is set to optional (which currently lets you play with out using punkbuster or gives warnings if you are).

Considering 'cheat' drivers are included you could be labled a cheator because the company your hardware is from desided to include it in the drivers (even if you don't directly use the features).
#8 by "None-1a"
2001-09-28 07:26:27
http://www.opencrap.org
opps reinstalled opencrap last night.
#9 by "crash"
2001-09-28 08:20:45
crash@planetcrap.com
m0nty:

Wasn't online playing already dead? It's looking sickly, in any case, with the implosion of Anarchy Online, the phoenix-like death of Lum The Mad, and the cancellation of Simsville.

AO never sported more registered accounts or active players than Asheron's Call--if they did, you can rest assured they'd have trumpeted it from the rooftops, because their PR and marketing machine has been anything but shy up till now. AC shows around 15-18k sustained at peak, and AO was braggin about 60k active accounts, and the ratio of active:peak players is right around 20% (observed industry "standard"), so we're lookin at 12k for AO. also to note is that that number is dropping alarmingly, but they'll get a slight boost from a european release--which i would imagine will drop off like a rock. but calling AO a symptom of the death of online play is stretching it. AO's dying because it's really broken, not because it isn't fun. check the amount of UO, EQ, and AC players during peak hours (which is usually defined as "6pm eastern to 10pm pacific time"), and you'll find that the average number logged in and playing is well over 100k.

LtM... that's more of a watchdog slash opinion site, not really a belwether of the state of the MM industry. not that there aren't some truly brilliant people writing for and on it, but let's face it--the most reviled game there is EQ, yet EQ sports 400k active accounts and over 80k at peak. hardly the sign of a dying industry.

Simsville... is/was an EA product. EA work in very bizarre ways. guesses here were that Simsville might not have grabbed their target market like they initially thought it would have. part of the Sims' popularity was its simplicity and accessibility... turning that into SimSimCity...? probably not the best of all moves, considering. besides, EA cancelled UO2 apparently because they thought it would cannibalize UO. EA's online aspect is kinda crappy right now. Sims Online is practically money in the bank. why screw up that launch by giving customers a choice of upcoming Sim products to buy? just business here, i think.

so... if online gaming is dying, it's not due to any of the above. at least from this chair. online gaming, in fact, has probably never had this many choices, this much playability, and this many subscribers. if it were dying, why are there, what, like a dozen online-onlies in development? publishers don't make games if they don't think there's money to be had... and hell, Codemasters (was it Codemasters? think so) just announced a new one this week. not sayin it's all milk and honey, but it certainly ain't dying. hell, it's barely warmed up.

and i'll say this: if you don't think SWG is gonna move 100k units the first weekend it's out, i'll want some of whatever you're puttin in your pipe. ;) NWN, probably in the 50k range, though that doesn't really qualify as an online game/mmog per se. Worlds of Warcraft, too--you ever known Blizzard to not go where the money is? :) and there are others, like Shadowbane, Horizons (mmmmaybe), Neocron (again, mmmmaybe), Westwood's up-and-comer (Earth and Beyond? i think that's it)...

now with that said, i'll agree that the era of the free-range game server (some diablo, some diablo 2, most FPSs, etc.) might be coming to a slow end. too many cheaters, too much crap going on, way too wide a range of possibilities, and--let's face it--way too many dorks out there. free-range servers are like the usenet of gaming. pay-for-plays are more of a heavily moderated board. if that makes any sense whatsoever.

now, bravely on to the topic. looks like Erik Johnson from Valve doesn't mind workin with punkbusters at all. at least, according to this. and this part of Johnson's statement:

...With that in mind, rest assured that we've talked to the Punkbuster team and we're going to see if there is a way to move the Half-Life engine toward being more friendly to these kinds of third party anti-cheat applications.

so... dunno. it's a good topic, i suppose, but kind of vague. back three, four years ago, "online gaming" was much more specific a term than it is now. kind of like "mp3 player" is today--before, mp3 player meant winamp, but now, it can mean anything from solid-state handhelds to cd/mp3 hybrids to car stereos to software.
#10 by "Mankovic"
2001-09-28 08:26:16
I think the Counter Strike community may suffer a little due to this, but the hardcore players that I know will press on regardless. It doesnt make much sense that Valve wouldnt at least in someway help the situation out by doing whatever is necessary to fix the bugs, but it may well be a liscensing issue, since the engine is liscensed from Id.

I think the casual gamer however, is going to turn their backs on the cheating issue and walk away in disgust. I'm a firm believer in publishing peoples IP's and firing a letter off to their respective ISP's detailing the activity of the offender. Get their internet priveleges yanked I say, with more and more people getting broadband, it will be more of an impact if someone is caught cheating and loses that leet adsl or cable connection in the process. Getting around a security protocol in a game is no different than using an exploit like back orifice to gain access to somewhere you're not supposed to be, and should be handled as such. We've already learned that games will never be 100% full proof, so measures like these are going to be the only real longterm solution to this problem.
#11 by "Speed"
2001-09-28 08:30:51
speed@crew.fragland.net http://www.fragland.net
Valve stated that they're going to integrate anti-cheating software (punkbuster) in their next patches and QRI are going to port their anti-cheat software for Quakeworld to Counterstrike.
End of discussion, what are we going to talk about now ? ;)
#12 by "Warren Marshall"
2001-09-28 08:31:18
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicboy.com
Does that ever work?  Reporting someone to their ISP?  I've done it in the past and the ISP wanted documented proof of the activity ... I provided it and then never heard another word.  I have a feeling most of them don't really give a rats ass what their users do.
#13 by "sprayNwipe"
2001-09-28 08:33:18
spraynwipe@optushome.com.au http://www.opencrap.org
#5 HoseWater
The key is to not build security by obscurity, but by peer review.


It's different with games though. If I have the source to Apache, I can hack it so that every page served by it is replaced with "HoseWater r00lz", then run it as my webserver. No one really cares, because it only affects pages you serve.

If I have the source to PunkBuster, I can hack it so that it ignores cheating drivers and tells the server everything is okay, then run it when I play a game. Everybody cares, because suddenly the player has an unfair advantage over other people.
#14 by "HoseWater"
2001-09-28 08:49:53
http://refracted.com/opencrap
Oops, I guess that is something the server would have to deal with.

I never said it would be easy, and you post made it look even more difficult than I initially imagined, but where theres a will, theres a way.

PS, if you want your apache server to indicate that I r00l, by all means, spread it far and wide.  :)
#15 by "m0nty"
2001-09-28 08:51:02
paul.montgomery@delphigroup.com.au http://www.delphiconsulting.com.au
Warren Marshall (#12):
Does that ever work?  Reporting someone to their ISP?  I've done it in the past and the ISP wanted documented proof of the activity ... I provided it and then never heard another word.  I have a feeling most of them don't really give a rats ass what their users do.

Having been the CEO of an ISP in a previous life, I can say that no, ISPs do not want to be policemen to their users. You get the gamut of reasons, from the open-sores zealots who believe in freedom of speech and that game devs should port to Linux so they would never have to worry about security ever again, to the money-grubbing corporate suits who don't care what their users do as long as they pay their access fees, to the plain lazy ones who never answer complaint emails no matter what they contain.

Basically, ISPs will not usually say boo to their users unless they are threatened to do so by outside forces who have some sort of power over them, i.e. police (in the case of actual law breaking activities), or their peers (spammers etc), or their accountants (in which case they crack down on late payers). In the absence of any sort of cohesion or organisational skills amongst the gamer community, I can't see that they can exert any meaningful pressure on ISPs. Which makes progs like Punkbusters all the more important.
#16 by "Mankovic"
2001-09-28 09:28:07
monty wrote in #15
In the absence of any sort of cohesion or organisational skills amongst the gamer community, I can't see that they can exert any meaningful pressure on ISPs.


While I know that most of what I proposed above deals with an idealistic sense, its going to have to come to this I feel if any real serious headway is to be made. In the near future I predict that you will see more organization regarding this, because games that use public servers are/will be prone to cheating. It's either that or we'll be relegated to the MS Zone network, or Kali type of model, something I'm not so sure FPS types will support.
#17 by "None-1a"
2001-09-28 09:29:29
http://www.opencrap.org
#11 Speed
Valve stated that they're going to integrate anti-cheating software (punkbuster) in their next patches and QRI are going to port their anti-cheat software for Quakeworld to Counterstrike.
End of discussion, what are we going to talk about now ? ;)


1: The privacy issuses that causes. Is it ok to be forced to allow them to scan your running task like this simply to play? Does the fact that some ham-headed hardware vender could get you a cheater lable simply by adding cheats you don't use at the driver level? What about some over zelous admin sending a report to your ISP that your a cheat and getting your connection cut out because of it?

2: The fact Valve was basicly blackmailed into using PunkBuster. The news update on the Punkbuster site makes it sound like Valve was turning there backs on the players by not doing buiness with them. Once Valve said no they suspended development for Half-Life in full. This despite the fact that not have Valve onboard would have ment that they can't detect internal bugs/hacks in the code (work could have continued on detecting and finding external cheats like it had been).

#15 m0nty
Having been the CEO of an ISP in a previous life, I can say that no, ISPs do not want to be policemen to their users.


Depends on the ISP, and who gets the report. We have a local ISP that's fully focused on gamers (to bad they don't offer dsl), and others where the tech/support staff are gamers. They tend to take cheating as seriously as any other bad thing you could be doing. Being small once an account was turned off it stayed off no matter what, at a larger ISP you may get luckly a get the account turned off but it'd be turned back on the next day once the person called to find out why.
#18 by "deadlock"
2001-09-28 10:26:25
deadlock@eircom.net
crash:

NWN ? SWG ? AAaarrrgh! Stop talking in acronyms! What are they, anyway ?

crash:
now with that said, i'll agree that the era of the free-range game server (some diablo, some diablo 2, most FPSs, etc.) might be coming to a slow end.

That's kinda crap though, isn't it ? At least for some of us - it'll be a lot harder for HPBs to find a decent server to play on if they're all corporate; like if you're in Europe (like me!) and you wanna play Warcraft 6 Online, you have to connect to Blizzard in the US and suffer from all sort of latency issues.

The other thing, of course, is LAN parties and small home/office networks - i don't think games will stop having a built-in server any time soon. Unless, of course, developers/publishers are going to expect us to pay for a seperate dedicated server ?

none-1a:
What about some over zelous admin sending a report to your ISP that your a cheat and getting your connection cut out because of it?

Cheaters are a pain in the arse and everything, but come on ? What ISP is going to cut someone's connection because they're cheating in a computer game ? I mean, on the list of bold things to do on the internet, that's gotta be after what ? Reading FHM online or something ?

deadlock

flamethrower hates my country...
#19 by "Happy Bunny Goes Fluff Fluff"
2001-09-28 11:19:07
staxontoplyon23@hotmil.com
"The privacy issuses that causes. Is it ok to be forced to allow them to scan your running task like this simply to play?"

Oh come on, the only privacy issue here is "waa, this thing will scan for my hacks and I want to cheat in private."  We're not talking about some sinister "Big Brother" type invasion of your activities, PB is not going to look for your kiddie porn and emails from Bin Ladden.  As long as players are warned that they will be scanned for cheats, and warned about what drivers not to use (reference ones are better annyway) then hell yeah, scan away.  I think that if you want your "privacy" so damn badly, then no one is forcing you to play CS, so go be ungodly paranoid about something else.  Maybe your Antivirus software is transmitting info to the saucer people.
#20 by "PiRaMidA"
2001-09-28 11:32:55
piramida@agsm.net
deadlock:
NWN ? SWG ?


Never Winter Nights and Star Wars Galaxies. And I agree with crash, online gaming is all but dead. What would happen when all CS players would overgrow CS and go online (and there are trillions of CS players)? I'm more than sure we are going to see MMOFPS and MMORTS game types very soon, after all those simple-graphics MMORPGS will establish the model - MMO part is still very raw and unexplored, coding-wise (see AO/D2/etc), - and when it's as easy as doing client-server-quake-style shooters is now the other games would follow.
#21 by "Ashiran"
2001-09-28 11:37:42
ashiran@ashrain.net http://wtf.couchcrew.com
I think that the only thing the PunkBuster software should do is, detect the cheat, get the IP, get the adress belonging to that IP, inform the PunkBuster team. Send them over to the adress to beat up the punk.

Unfortunately their are laws against such a thing. I would work great though :P
#22 by "AnalFissure"
2001-09-28 11:55:22
Am I the only one who thinks the whole cheating thing is overblown? I mean seriously, I've been playing online for years, and the only personal experience I've had with cheaters were a couple aimbots back in Q2. Generally, the only thing that has bothered me since has been the ocassional TKer. Conversely, I've been acused of cheating too many times to count, so it really makes me skeptical as to notion that cheaters run rampant on every single half-life server. Bullshit, I say.

Frankly, I'm kind of relieved punkbuster has loosened its, up until now, ever increasing grip on the online community I've always been miffed when I join a server only to find I have to download a seperate, third-party, client-side hack just so I wont be kicked. That's gay. Good riddance.
#23 by "theSAiNT"
2001-09-28 12:57:28
csl56@wincoll.ac.uk
AnalFissure is right.
Cheats piss me off as much as the next guy...especially lpb cheats when i'm stumbling along on 56k.
But punkbuster just wasn't that good.
People could still cheat while it was running. It slowed down my already slow connection with all the downloading it did in the background. But most aggravatingly, it kicked random people for no particular reason. It's not only happened to me. Others have experienced a 'punkbuster violation' followed by a stupid number following being booted.
Admins and votekick should help with the unwelcome cheat.
Granted it would be great if we could have an anti-cheat program but punkbuster was not a huge loss.
#24 by "Sgt Hulka"
2001-09-28 13:07:14
sgt_hulka@hulka.com http://www.hulka.com
#23 theSAiNT

Granted it would be great if we could have an anti-cheat program but punkbuster was not a huge loss.


It's the first time I've ever heard of them.  Then again, I don't play HL or CS.  My way of dealing with cheaters isn't legal in most if not all states.
#25 by "Foogla"
2001-09-28 13:08:51
Foogla@gmx.de
I would like a preview function for "Send Stuff". :)
#26 by "Happy Bunny Goes Fluff Fluff"
2001-09-28 13:27:16
staxontoplyon23@hotmil.com
"Am I the only one who thinks the whole cheating thing is overblown?"

Yes, you are.  I'd like to know what magical alltruistic servers you play on, I have just been playing on a punkbuster server with people blatanly shooting through doors having no reason to know someone was there other than the fact that they could see through them.  I was AWPed through the double doors in Aztec by a terrorist in the tunnel by the bridge, me being near the bombsite, which is ludicrous.  Its not as if I had popped through the opening and gone back behind the doors to recieve a lucky guess shot, and I was not in a position that people usually spam with bullets, I do that myself.  Theres no way he could have known I was there without a hack, and this was not the only case of that sort of thing.  Cheaters do not run rampant on every server, but there are too damn many out there and it is annoying enough to find a server that you have good ping to that is not full only to have to quit because some ass head is ruining it for everyone.  
    
Punkbuster before CS 1.3 came out rocked IMO, I didnt care that it lagged me and kicked me occasionally or that there were a few who found a way around it, (admins especially, go play on BigQEd's to see what I mean, and call 1st.netJabrim an asshole for me :P) I think that integration with CS would fix alot of those problems.  As for Tony Ray and crew, (dude who created it) I don't blame them for pulling support for HL and CS, they has put a hell of alot of work into this project without compensation only to have that work turned upside down by constant patches and updates by Valve.  Cheats that were detected before now work because of the switch to 1.3, meaning that they have to do a bunch of coding all over again on top of coding for newer cheats.  I think Valve should integrate PB and pay them for it, there is no one who has made more progress in anti-cheating techniques than the PB team, and Valve has demonstrated their relative ineptness at it.  They touted 1.3 as having fixed the cheats and here it is a week later with even the most casual cheaters having a good laugh at that assertion.  At least with PB (the way it was before 1.3) you had to be pretty hardcore to get around it.
#27 by "dutch"
2001-09-28 13:45:17
dutch_l7@hotmail.com
anticheat software only encourages hackers to make more advanced cheats.  The cs Pb relationship is like the antionbiotics versus bacteria evolutionary war.  The idea of ISp's banning cheaters  is a wishful thinking, to be sure.
#28 by "Houston"
2001-09-28 13:58:29
houstonx@pacbell.net Opencrap.rocksdahouse.org
Avoid Cheaters

Play Single-Player!
#29 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2001-09-28 14:04:06
Darkseid@captured.com www.sluggy.com
Hmmm what games does punkbuster work with ?

Oh thats right, with Half Life.... amazingly enough ONLY Half Life.

So, a third party application, riding on the success of a specific game is threatening to stop updating unless the reason for its existence helps it out...

Uhm, Im sorry but this smacks me as being just wrong on many levels. It smacks of blackmail


Turn around and tell them to get fucked and write your own inbuilt protection that can snapshot someones screen and page it up to the server ( 0.1ksec isnt noticible against ping) and make it part of the user agreement for your software that the user has to agree to this or they cant play.

Ds
#30 by "Happy Bunny Goes Fluff Fluff"
2001-09-28 14:06:21
staxontoplyon23@hotmil.com
"Avoid Cheaters

Play Single-Player!"

But then you can't hurt the A.I.'s feelings by calling it a fag.
#31 by "AnalFissure"
2001-09-28 14:40:38
Cheaters do not run rampant on every server, but there are too damn many out there and it is annoying enough to find a server that you have good ping to that is not full only to have to quit because some ass head is ruining it for everyone.


I'm sorry, but I don't find there are "too damn many out there". They are few and far between in my experience. The common TK'ing thug is much more of a problem for me. I hear so many accusations of cheating, though. "Nice aim bot", "nice wall hack"... It's like a witch hunt, and it pisses me off.

Maybe I'm just lucky but if things are as bad as some people would have you believe, that would be next to impossible, wouldn't it?
#32 by "Stepto"
2001-09-28 15:14:10
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
Didn't Valve say yesterday they would work with Punkbuster?

S.
#33 by "Happy Bunny Goes Fluff Fluff"
2001-09-28 15:22:15
staxontoplyon23@hotmil.com
"Hmmm what games does punkbuster work with ?

Oh thats right, with Half Life.... amazingly enough ONLY Half Life."

Ooh, those sinister bastards, tyring to ride on Valve's success by improving their software for free.  Forget the fact that people writing programs/mods that "ride" on this engine is the only reason so many people are still playing such an outdated game.  I suppose the PB folks should continue to pour hundereds of hours into thier program without comensation or diecent support just to prove to you that they are nice guys.  This is not blackmail, its people who are refusing to work for free, no one is holding a gun to Valve's head.  If Valve wants PB then they will have to give it more than the anemic support it has recieved, if not then they will move on.  A FREE third party program does not owe you or Valve jack $h1+, but people continue to post rants like this as if they did.
#34 by "Flamethrower"
2001-09-28 15:25:34
patch@evilemail.com www.Jesus-vs-Judas.com
But then you can't hurt the A.I.'s feelings by calling it a fag.


Do what the rest of us do: play the single player game, then head to that game's forum on Old Man Murray and call Chet a fag.


Don't worry, Chet don't got no feelings to hurt. Hell, if my Chet theories are right and he's the boy in the bucket operating his net connection from an electronic pen stuck in his mouth, Chet don't got no extremeties to hurt neither.

And therefore does that make him a fag? If he's just plucked from his bucket and buttfucked, well, what can he do? Even headbutting requires leverage. And so he just sucks meatsticks shoved in his face, so would you if you were trapped in a bucket: you'd feel more like a baby in (plastic circular) arms so it's a natural human instinct to suckle on nipples, even the large purple homidus mononippleus. The one that take extra sucking for small quantities of manmilk. At least it has protien. And as a boy in a bucket, you can never be sure of where your next meal is comming from, so you have to take what you can get.


Alternatively, you can play games on-line and suffer the cheats. And fantasise about amputating the arms and legs from cheats and putting them (the cheat, not his limbs) in an OMM/PoE patented suck-and-fuck bucket.


It's no more chilling than the Pulp Fiction phrase "Russel's old room" ...
#35 by "Happy Bunny Goes Fluff Fluff"
2001-09-28 15:28:39
staxontoplyon23@hotmail.com
"I'm sorry, but I don't find there are "too damn many out there". They are few and far between in my experience."

Wow, do you live in Amish country?
#36 by "Buccaneer"
2001-09-28 15:33:27
buccaneer@planetcrap.com http://www.strangepeople.net
#32 by Stepto said
Didn't Valve say yesterday they would work with Punkbuster?

I guess so. Here's another statement from the PunkBuster team posted on their site:
Since Tuesday's announcement regarding PunkBuster going commercial, we have received four inquiries from commercial game developers (including Valve) about the possibility of integrating our Anti-Cheat software technology into their products. We continue to desire relationships with game designers who are serious about stopping cheaters. We will release more details as soon as possible (hopefully, in the near future).

- Buccaneer
#37 by "Foogla"
2001-09-28 15:34:45
Foogla@gmx.de
Stepto:

I quote Valve:
With that in mind, rest assured that we've talked to the Punkbuster team and we're going to see if there is a way to move the Half-Life engine toward being more friendly to these kinds of third party anti-cheat applications.


Anyway I submitted that topic 3 days ago iirc, I would have worded it differently now. :/
#38 by "Foogla"
2001-09-28 15:36:24
Foogla@gmx.de
HAH and bucc has the better quote too!
#39 by "AnalFissure"
2001-09-28 16:01:37
"I'm sorry, but I don't find there are "too damn many out there". They are few and far between in my experience."

Wow, do you live in Amish country?


So? What the fuck does that have to do with anything, english?
#40 by "Stepto"
2001-09-28 16:44:29
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
Another crap nipped in the bud by current events.

S.
#41 by "Jeremy Witt"
2001-09-28 16:49:18
jeremywitt@evilemail.com
I kind of have a problem with a third party developer trying to besmirch the reputation of a game developer because said game developer doesn't want to work with them. Why does Valve owe development support to the PunkBuster guys? I know, none of this really applies now that Valve has agreed to work with them...

And therefore does that make him a fag? If he's just plucked from his bucket and buttfucked, well, what can he do?

The problem is that if you perform a homosexual act, even against your will, you're gay. Raped in prison? Sorry, gay. You fag.

+bonus: The English language could be greatly improved - you know, fun-wise - by two simple things:
1) 'Your' should rhyme with 'shower', like it's spelled.
2) 'Dirt' should be spelled 'dert'. It's more fun that way. Dert. Probably applies to 'flirt' and 'shirt', as well.
#42 by "Foogla"
2001-09-28 16:50:32
Foogla@gmx.de
Awww Stepto you juz jealous cuz we the BEASTIE BOYS!
#43 by "Jeremy Witt"
2001-09-28 16:51:32
jeremywitt@evilemail.com
Another crap nipped in the bud by current events.

Yeah, sorry Foogla - it's kind of stamped out any further discussion here...
#44 by "Stepto"
2001-09-28 17:18:08
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
Jeremy you bring up a good point re: punkbuster dissing Valve, but I think everyone will agree Valve is EXTREMELY slow to fix cheating in Half Life.  I mean like EXTREMELY EXTREMELY slow.  I guess they just got fed up.

S.
#45 by "Stepto"
2001-09-28 17:18:46
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
Don't mess with me foogla, like Run-DMC I'm thougha than leatha!  Unlike Run-DMC I am a pasty white boy.

S.
#46 by "Dinglehoffen"
2001-09-28 17:38:22
Well, yesterday I was calling Derek's game a piece of burped-up, bum-ridden boogernaught, and today I'm pre-ordering the damn game. I played the episode two demo and it's more fun than any space sim I've played to date...including X-Tension.

Kudos!
#47 by "Happy Bunny Goes Fluff Fluff"
2001-09-28 17:40:35
staxontoplyon23@hotmail.com
How do you play those demos?  The manual is of no help and niether is the website they came from since I don't speak german.  I have gone to the console and tried "playdemo (demoname)" "demo (demoname)" "play (demoname)" with path included and without.  Fark.
#48 by "Dinglehoffen"
2001-09-28 17:47:55
I just loaded it up and started pushing buttons until I realized what was going on. The "F" keys rearrange your views, the "Q" key accelerates, etc. Once I got the basics down, I started getting involved with the narrative. It took me two hours of play just to learn how to handle the craft and the interface.

Damn, this game is fun. There's so much to do! So many places to go! And the scrolling stars are badass (even though physically they'd never scroll...:))
#49 by "Ergo"
2001-09-28 17:58:02
stuart_harms@mentor.com
I do believe that's the first time I've heard Dingle say something positive (or constructive) about anything. What is the world coming to?

---
"Do I know what a rhetorical question is?" --Homer Simpson
#50 by "Chet"
2001-09-28 18:13:16
chet@goddamnfruit.com http://www.poenews.com/
Wow, people are now bitching about the support a company has for a free mod for a game released 2 years ago.  A game they still keep patching and trying to improve.  How many companies are looking at Valve's support of Half-life and saying, "that's not worth it, we can just make a 10 hour single player game and be done with it"?

But I understand.  I just got a free oil change coupon from the dealer where I bought my car two years ago.  I'm not falling for his trap, free oil change my ass, I bet they would check my other fluilds as well, bastards!

Chet
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