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September 11th 2001, 17:38 CEST by Morn

This day has been host to a series of horrible, horrible events. If you are having trouble reaching <a href="http://www.cnn.com">CNN</a> and the news sites out there and don't have access to a TV, there's some archived media <a href="/war/">here</a>. Also, join us in #planetcrap on irc.planetcrap.com if you want.
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#1 by "fyrewolf"
2001-09-11 17:47:26
It's horrible.  I can't believe it.
#2 by "mixuk"
2001-09-11 17:58:06
mixuk@sci.fi
This is surreal. What kind of people can do such a horrible thing?
#3 by "Gir Draxon"
2001-09-11 18:01:36
darklax@dagorhir.com http://www.dagorhir.com
You would not believe the shit that is going down around here.  I think we just shot down one of our planes.
New York is a complete mess, if I wasn't so numb I'd probably be horrified.

-j
#4 by "mgns"
2001-09-11 18:02:42
wratte@home.se
#2 mixuk:
"What kind of people can do such a horrible thing?"

Pissed off ones.
#5 by "Gir Draxon"
2001-09-11 18:06:45
darklax@dagorhir.com http://www.dagorhir.com
I'd pop on, but I can't irc through the firewall. :P  At least CNN disabled most of their site.  You can finally access it now in its simple form.

-j
#6 by "Lucky"
2001-09-11 18:07:03
Small, fanatic kamikaze groups do this kind of thing.
The worst thing is they were *passenger* planes.
#7 by "Lucky"
2001-09-11 18:08:22
Ananova's oddly a steady source for news.
#8 by "Narcopolo"
2001-09-11 18:11:19
I originally heard the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, then I heard that the group was actually called the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, which is now claiming that they are not responsible.
#9 by "Gabe"
2001-09-11 18:12:53
gabe@opencrap.org http://www.opencrap.org
#6 Lucky
Small, fanatic kamikaze groups do this kind of thing.The worst thing is they were *passenger* planes.

Not to mention the thousands of people in the WTC and surrounding area.

-- Gabe
#10 by "Matthew Gallant"
2001-09-11 18:21:00
mg@tmbg.org
I have no idea. This takes a combination of extreme psychosis and a political situation that none of us have ever had to live under. I can only guess that in the mind of the planners and the people who carried this out that they had just given up.
#11 by "Gir Draxon"
2001-09-11 18:29:50
darklax@dagorhir.com http://www.dagorhir.com
Four confirmed hijackings and 8 total plane crashes so far.

There's little chance this was a small group.  The coordination and followthrough is pretty high.

Domestic Pearl Harbor is one of the phrases that is now being bandied about by everyone, depending on how well the WTC was being evacuated, the casualty numbers are probably higher and mostly civilian.

I'm still waiting on official response from the government and picture confirmation of the final hijacking that was shot down, so I'm not so sure its true yet.

-j
#12 by "Morn"
2001-09-11 18:32:30
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Just in case...

<@Xuff> To check on family members, please call 1.877.RED.CROSS for information. Please ONLY call to check on family in World Trade Center and Pentagon Disasters. Australians who have relatives etc in the US on planes, 1300 555 135 1 800 245 0999 is the American Airlines hotline - Please use only in emergencies! 0207 008 0000 - UK Emergency Hotline American ressortissant from France - crisis phone number :145558000 Phone lines around the East Coast are tied up
#13 by "Ashiran"
2001-09-11 18:36:29
ashiran@ashrain.net http://wtf.couchcrew.com
If there is one thing that all people will realize now.

Safety, is an illusion.
#14 by "Caryn Law"
2001-09-11 18:58:13
carynlaw@pacbell.net
Los Angeles is under complete lock down and the LAPD anti-terrorist squads are under tactical alert. All major buildings have been evacuated. My husband is trying to come home from LA but he can't because the roads are packed solid.
#15 by "Narcopolo"
2001-09-11 18:58:27
If anyone cares, my friend who works for Morgan Stanley is OK, he wasn't there.  His office is in Midtown.  

I can't watch the TV anymore, it's just the plane hitting the second tower and then both of them collapsing over and over and over.

The Taliban has issued a statement to the U.S. : "Afghanistan feels your pain."

Quite possibly they will be feeling their own pain soon.  If Osama bin Laden is responsible, the US will hold Afghanistan accountable.  

The Taliban statement expressly mentions justice through the courts.  This seems unlikely to me, in more ways than one.
#16 by "Glock"
2001-09-11 19:07:10
glock17@tampabay.rr.com
Damn.  10,000 people dead in NYC....
#17 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2001-09-11 19:09:03
tc10@st-andrews.spam-b-gone.ac.uk
Figured there'd be some discussion at the old 'crapper...

My money's on bin Laden - he's the only major player stupid/intense (if you see what I mean)enough to do something like this.
What scares me is the military backlash (and there will be one - don't anybody kid yourselves) that's coming. The US is unused to terrorism on its own soil, and with a moron like Bush at the helm, the vengeance taken will be huge. Moreover, Blair being America's little lapdog, I'm sure we'll get roped into whatever happens too... *sigh*
#18 by "Lucky"
2001-09-11 19:28:41
Blair made *the* worst, most patronizing "speech" I have ever witnessed today. Even Bush seems to have more of a clue - he seems to have hit the right tone at least.

Someone from the US defence seemingly with authority said on CNN they will treat this as an act of war. Let's hope they calm down before innocent countries get carpetbombed - two wrongs don't make a right.
#19 by "Dragon"
2001-09-11 19:29:33
dragon@planetshogo.com
Narcopolo, I'm glad that your friend is safe. Let's just hope that a lot more people will be able to say that they got out of the towers okay.

According to a few web sites, Bin Laden is the only terrorist with the resources to pull this kind of attack off. But I don't think he's dumb enough to do something of this scale. As Hitler once said, you don't want to "wake the sleeping giant". And we all remember what happened when it awoke.

If it was Bin Laden, I hope we just go after him and his terrorists and not the innocent people of Afghanistan. WW3 is not something I look forward to see.
#20 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2001-09-11 19:32:32
tc10@st-andrews.spam-b-gone.ac.uk
Not a hope of going after bin Laden individually. Afghanistan is harbouring and protecting him -I think the Taleban see him as some kind of prophet-hero or something. If the US wants to go after him, they'll have to move on the Taleban.
#21 by "Karl Palutke"
2001-09-11 19:33:02
karl@digitalsavagery.com
I was on an Air Force base when it happened.  Things were pretty routine, then the hangar doors closed and all the fire doors were closed.  We were told "Anybody without proper ID is going to have a long day".  

A few minutes later, my customer (a govt employee, I'm a contractor) said "Karl, you have to leave.  Now."  Once we left the hangar, we were told we couldn't go back in.  We got off the base without incident, but they sealed it shortly afterward.

The DOD has cut off all phone and email contact with the base, only emergency and essential communications can get through, so I don't know what the latest is. . .
#22 by "Gunp01nt"
2001-09-11 19:36:55
supersimon33@hotmail.com
I can't believe this happened! The American people must be living in a world of fear right now!
Bush said that they've taken whatever precaution necessary to protect the American people... yeah well those precautions seem to be SORT OF LACKING.

Even with the FBI, CIA, NSA and a huge army, the US couldn't prevent these terrorist acts.


As horrible as this is, we should not forget that the USA is partially to blame for this. Their pissing off the arabic world, and other Derek Smart-like tactics, time and time again couldn't go without a response.
This is that response.
#23 by "Gunp01nt"
2001-09-11 19:40:04
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Tom 'Foghorn' Cleghorn:
If the US wants to go after him, they'll have to move on the Taleban.

I hope the US govt. can keep their heads cool and don't start throwing nukes around on every possible suspect. They thirsty for blood right now, but they shouldn't be too hasty with a conclusion on who dunnit.
#24 by "funkdrunk"
2001-09-11 19:40:49
I myself have 3 close friends that work in the area.  2 are accounted for.  One is missing.  I work in an office in Jersey City, and we have a view of downtown manhattan.  I watched as the second plane crased into the south tower, and it's a vision that I'll have for the rest of my life.

One of my friends said she was witness to people falling out of the sky.

The WTC holds 40,000 people.  We currently have no numbers of the casulties.  

Funk.
#25 by "Gyruss"
2001-09-11 19:47:10
One of those horrible events were people will remember where they were and what they were doing at the time.

A truely sad day...
#26 by "Gunp01nt"
2001-09-11 19:47:58
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Funk:
It must've been horrible seeing that. I hope your friend turns up OK.

Fighting out a political war over the heads of innocent civilians is cowardly, regardless of the acts of the US in the arabian region.
#27 by "Talion"
2001-09-11 19:48:33
Gunpoint, #22:

Bush said that they've taken whatever precaution necessary to protect the American people... yeah well those precautions seem to be SORT OF LACKING.

He was referring to the precautions taken after the attacks...evacuating federal buildings in DC, halt on plane traffic, etc.

we should not forget that the USA is partially to blame for this.

In principle I reject that the US is to blame for attacks on civilians, because they are never warranted.  I'm sure the anti-US Middle East policy people will rush to correct me but in my analysis the only attack by the United States on civilians was Clinton's reprehensible attack on the African medicine plant, which at least could be excused as incompetence rather than malice.  I suppose Flamethrower and his ilk consider money and military aid to Israel to be an attack on Palestinian civilians, but I disagree.
#28 by "Dragon"
2001-09-11 19:51:11
dragon@planetshogo.com
Is there some way we can get the UN to get Bin Laden extradited. Or push comes to shove, we send in Jason Hall with a really big machine gun, have him grab Laden and drag the guy over to a waiting boat.

This is just great. I'm going into shock and I actually recognize the stage that I'm in.
#29 by "tommy"
2001-09-11 19:52:39
I just got home from Manhatten.  Had to walk across the Manhatten Bridge to Brooklyn.

It's terrible.  Awful.  I was stuck on the bridge going into town on the subway.  Suddenly evyone started screaming and rushed to one side.  We saw the second plane hit.

I can't believe they both fell down.
#30 by "Narcopolo"
2001-09-11 19:53:01
I don't think that it's possible to go after bin Laden without being in Afghanistan in force, and in person.  That means invasion, as opposed to a retaliatory bombing.  The scale of this is just too large to play tag-backs.  It's war with the US, now who else wants to play?

I don't think that it's World War 3.  I expect every other major player would want to sit this one out.  It's tricky though.  No one wants a war but since it looks like one is on, hopefully people will stay out of the way.

Russia hates Afghanistan.  I don't know how they'd feel about a US force on their borders, which is near where Afghanistan lies, but I think that they'd like force applied to Islamic militants anywhere, they have a lot of that problem in Chechnya and other areas.

China also fears Islamic militancy, if that's what this is.  They are more likely to get involved.  Afghanistan is land locked, and I doubt Pakistan or Iran would let us through.  That goes for Afghanistan's other neighbors.  Pakistan and China see eye to eye on a lot of things, especially India.  And Pakistan is Afghanistan's biggest supporter.  

Iran would likely try to harbor any Afghan refugees, but I don't know that they would do more than secure their own borders.   We need friendlier relations with Iran, we've needed them for sometime.  

The biggest problem is that we can't just materialize in Afghanistan, we either need to fly there and/or drive, and that would necessarily destabilize the area by getting other countries involved.  Countries that have age old blood feuds.   And lots of security concerns.

This is speculation based on the "What if Osama bin Laden is responsible?" question.  

Islam specifically forbids making war on women and children.  Mohammed expressly made that statement.   There are people who support Osama bin Laden who don't believe he'd ever make a statement to kill Americans wherever they may be found, but the CIA has been telling anyone who'd listen that they have proof.  I don't think that many people who support him are listening.
#31 by "Gunp01nt"
2001-09-11 19:55:42
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Everybody is now looking to the arabian countries, but I just picked up that it may be of Macedonian origin, as retaliation for operation Essential Harvest. Other Balkan countries could also have a motive for attacking the US, because of the involvement of the US in the bombardments in Serbia and Kosovo.
#32 by "Narcopolo"
2001-09-11 19:56:34
Didn't Nostradamus say a man in a blue turban would cause World War 3?  The US and Russia against China, or something.  The US wins, but loses New York.  Lovely.
#33 by "funkdrunk"
2001-09-11 19:57:43
It must've been horrible seeing that


We saw the plane coming in from the southwest, and we all knew what was coming.  We were banging on the windows screaming.  

You know when people say that at moments of crisis time slows down, it's certainly true.  That plane felt like it took 30 years to crash into the building.

I can't stop seeing it.

Funk.

/I can't even get home right now.  I'm at a friends house in Newark.
#34 by "tommy"
2001-09-11 20:03:06
Best thing is to stay indoors.

I'm going to give blood.  Anyone in the New York area should do the same.
#35 by "mrbloo"
2001-09-11 20:03:28
mrbloo2000@hotmail.com http://www.opencrap.org
Freaky stuff, I'd better find a TV.  Thanks for the updates.  Good luck to anyone with relatives in New York.
#36 by "funkdrunk"
2001-09-11 20:05:52
Anyone in the New York area should do the same.


Yeah, indeed.  I just talked to my brother who is on his way to do that, and as soon as I can get back to Queens, I plan on doing the same.

Funk.
#37 by "crash"
2001-09-11 20:07:13
crash@planetcrap.com
personally, i think it's time and past time this shit stopped. say what you want about bush, but he's a republican and from texas. that means, more than likely, he likes to shoot stuff.

Terrorist countries, meet Og. Og here is going to show you how to use fire... once America bombs you back to the fucking stone age.

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
--Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, after the Pearl Harbor attack

and as for innocents? gee.

personally, i just worry about the folks of middle-eastern descent living in the US... cos a lot of uninformed folks can't make the connection.
#38 by "Ergo"
2001-09-11 20:11:04
stuart_harms@mentor.com
#32 Narcopolo
Didn't Nostradamus say a man in a blue turban would cause World War 3?  The US and Russia against China, or something.  The US wins, but loses New York.  Lovely.


Nostradamus said a lot of shit, nearly, if not all, of which has been debunked or misinterpreted.
#39 by "Gunp01nt"
2001-09-11 20:11:18
supersimon33@hotmail.com
www.sky.com has live news streams.
#40 by "tommy"
2001-09-11 20:11:21
That's great.  Did you see that in the movie?

What are you saying, intern all the arabs and nuke the middle east?
#41 by "Mad_Dog"
2001-09-11 20:12:24
markyork@cox-internet.com http://www.opencrap.org
A few observations....

On Sept. 11, 1922, a British mandate was proclaimed in Palestine, despite Arab protests. It lasted until 1948, after the United Nations authorized a partition of the territory and the state of Israel was established.

Anniversary of Camp David Accord Sept 5-17, 1978. One plane reportedly attemted to attack Camp David.

Today is September 11.

I don't believe in coincidences.
#42 by "Dragon"
2001-09-11 20:12:53
dragon@planetshogo.com
Narcopolo gave me some good brain food.

Islam specifically forbids making war on women and children. Mohammed expressly made that statement. There are people who support Osama bin Laden who don't believe he'd ever make a statement to kill Americans wherever they may be found, but the CIA has been telling anyone who'd listen that they have proof. I don't think that many people who support him are listening.


This may go towards proving my theory that Bin Laden didn't do it. As Flamethrower would point out, doing this attack is kinda like going up to a bottle of Nitroglycerin and shaking it as hard as you can.

This may be one of those Macdonian groups trying to frame Bin Laden for their crimes. I just hope that the Intelligence community can find the people responisble for this in a quick and efficient manner.
#43 by "Gunp01nt"
2001-09-11 20:20:23
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Mad_dog:
I don't think the date has anything to do with it. It maybe a stunning coincidence but do you really think they waited for september 11th? I think they did it regardless of the date.
#44 by "deadlock"
2001-09-11 20:20:24
deadlock@eircom.net
Talion:
I suppose Flamethrower and his ilk consider money and military aid to Israel to be an attack on Palestinian civilians, but I disagree.

Not to jump on you, but you can't deny that the US' anti-Arab Middle Eastern policies are at least partially to blame - assuming that this was the work of Islamic militants, something which has yet to be confirmed.

It's telling that Palestinians are actually celebrating this atrocity... that's as fucked up as perpetrating it...

Incidentally, like many other westerners, I feel that this isn't just an attack on America: the WTC is an international symbol of the Western way of life and as such an attack on it is an attack on Western Civilisation and indeed any civilisation where democracy and freedom are the norm...

deadlock

flamethrower hates my country...
#45 by "tommy"
2001-09-11 20:21:18
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,3-2001313909,00.html

I not sure how to make this a link
#46 by "funkdrunk"
2001-09-11 20:23:59
Also of note, is that in the US, the number to call in case of an emergency is 911.  Today's date is 9-11.

Funk.

/I don't believe in coincidences either, but if you look hard enough you'll find something that fits. And at the end of the day it doesn't matter one bit.
#47 by "SKG"
2001-09-11 20:25:45
riskg@hotmail.com marquepage.net
This will probably mark a turning point in world history, as it is the first time something like that happens. This feels like a b-movie or anime scenario.

You have all my support from France.

SKG
#48 by "Narcopolo"
2001-09-11 20:27:28
Tommy, have they started the trains again?  I turned off the TV.  It was too depressing, and no news.

Where can we go to give blood?

I'm wondering how I can get down to the hospitals, and if they're even set up to take blood.


Just because Mohammed was against killing civilians doesn't mean Osama bin Laden is.  He apparently really did issue an order to kill any and all Americans wherever you may find them.  Plus offering a $30000 reward for each in Pakistan.  This is what they say.

#41 Mad_Dog-
I don't believe in coincidences.


The first time is an accident.  The second time is a coincidence.  The third time is enemy action.   -Goldfinger, in Goldfinger by Ian Fleming
#49 by "Gabe"
2001-09-11 20:31:04
gabe@opencrap.org http://www.opencrap.org
#45 tommy
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...tmlI not sure how to make this a link

tommy's link

-- Gabe
#50 by "mixuk"
2001-09-11 20:32:12
mixuk@sci.fi
#48 Narcopolo
He apparently really did issue an order to kill any and all Americans wherever you may find them.  Plus offering a $30000 reward for each in Pakistan.

That is true. They showed a videoclip of Osama speaking and he said that it's his holy mission to wipe all americans off earth. Not his exact words though.
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