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T O P I C
The Beginning of the End?
July 31st 2001, 08:58 CEST by Morn

Egads, GSI and AO in one thread! Too good to be true?

<a href="http://www.gamespy.com">GameSpy</a>, the guys who run all those <i>great</i> gaming websites, have apparently changed their standard site director contract to include a new payment plan: instead of getting a set amount of money plus benefits every month, Planet*.com "site directors" now get 30% of the advertising revenue generated by their site, which they can then share with their "editors". In an internal email to all site directors forwarded to me by some friendly anonymous fella a couple of weeks ago, the cynical GameSpy people even had the balls to claim that their worker drones could even be making more money now than before. YEAH RIGHT.

Enough about GSI, here's the AO bit! As much as I hate posting unconfirmed rumours (haha), <a href="http://www.funcom.com">Funcom</a> -- makers of the <i>fantastic</i> massively multiplayer online roleplaying game <a href="http://www.anarchy-online.com">Anarchy Online</a> -- are supposedly shutting down their Ireland offices. Hmmmmmmmmm.
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#1 by "szcx codemonkey"
2001-07-31 09:00:14
yoda@whatwouldyodado.com http://senator.you.are.no.johncarmack.com
What's 30% of zero?
#2 by "michael "quatoria" wedge"
2001-07-31 09:02:56
michael@hardnews.org www.hardnews.org
What's 30% of zero?


PlanetFuckingBroke.
#3 by "EricFate"
2001-07-31 09:04:18
ericfate@yahoo.com
What's 30% of zero?


Let me think about this a sec...

...

...um 30% of zero is the same amount of money all the people they compete with are making?

Well, except the ones that are making less than zero.
#4 by "BarneyQue"
2001-07-31 09:07:02
barneyque@hotmail.com
You get what you pay for.  If they are going to pay the site directors shit, then they should expect shit on and from the site.

I hope this does not affect people with existing positions.
#5 by "Apache"
2001-07-31 09:12:01
30% is what you make of it. If you run a popular site and are "in" with the publisher, you can get yourself a very tight deal. Remember, it's not like they paid these people much to begin with... But, most of these people aren't biz oriented, so chances are they'll be taking a serious pay cut. Kinda crappy, but these are shitty times.
#6 by "szcx codemonkey"
2001-07-31 09:15:04
yoda@whatwouldyodado.com http://senator.you.are.no.johncarmack.com
If you run a popular site and are "in" with the publisher

Yay, more bogus reviews.  Can't wait.
#7 by "Apache"
2001-07-31 09:17:41
>>Yay, more bogus reviews. Can't wait.<<

Yay, more asinine replies, this is getting really constructive.
#8 by "szcx codemonkey"
2001-07-31 09:22:20
yoda@whatwouldyodado.com http://senator.you.are.no.johncarmack.com
Um, you know I wasn't referring to you, right?  Did you see the GSI Anarchy Online review?

But hey, if the shoe fits...
#9 by "michael "quatoria" wedge"
2001-07-31 09:23:17
michael@hardnews.org www.hardnews.org
But SZCX, they only gave it a 76%, and as you and I well know, in the world of reviewing, scores only go down to 70%. The rest of the scale is PURE FANTASY!
#10 by "BarneyQue"
2001-07-31 09:25:18
barneyque@hotmail.com
Whoops, had to say more.

So the site directors potentially get less money, and they have been told they can even share it if they want with the peons doing the actual work, and they lose benifits.

That's one hell of a deal.  Why the hell would they even tell someone they are allowed to share their paycheck?  
That's just plain insulting.

To be fair, what does the other side of the coin look like?  GSI gets to keep expenses tied to income, sounds like a smart move.  They get to stop paying benifits to as many people, I'm sure others in the HQ's are still getting theirs.

Times are tough, both sides basically are getting fucked up the ass as far as I can tell.  GSI corporate is probably not pulling down as much coin as they used to, and now the same goes for the employee's.  

I need more info, what if they somehow actually do get more money for the directors under this plan, I suppose it's possible, if that becomes the case, then I take it all back.

Too bad, so sad.
#11 by "Apache"
2001-07-31 09:25:26
>>Um, you know I wasn't referring to you, right? Did you see the GSI Anarchy Online review?

But hey, if the shoe fits...<<

Silly question, but would you ever visit Planet Half-Life (for example) and expect an objective review of the game they cover? Of course not... That's where I was coming from. These sites live to promote the games they cover.

Yes, I did read their AO review and think its a load of shit.
#12 by "michael "quatoria" wedge"
2001-07-31 09:28:14
michael@hardnews.org www.hardnews.org
Silly question, but would you ever visit Planet Half-Life (for example) and expect an objective review of the game they cover? Of course not... That's where I was coming from. These sites live to promote the games they cover.


What's the point in a site doing a review of *anything* if they're not going to endeavor to be objective, aside from the obvious publisher cocksuckery? If a site doesn't behave as if it has at least SOME ethical responsibility to its readers, that site doesn't deserve 'em.
#13 by "Houston"
2001-07-31 09:36:05
houstonx@pacbell.net http://olsentwinsnude.planetcrap.com
I can't honestly think of something great to contribute, but hell, if it's another dogpile on our Native American friend, I'll take in a go-fer.   :)

So, by GSI giving their site directors a percent pay instead of a set amount, that could be considered incentive, which seems like a good thing, but, that's all left to the webmasters then, eh?

... with sexy results!
#14 by "Apache"
2001-07-31 09:37:40
>>What's the point in a site doing a review of *anything* if they're not going to endeavor to be objective, aside from the obvious publisher cocksuckery? If a site doesn't behave as if it has at least SOME ethical responsibility to its readers, that site doesn't deserve 'em.<<

You're missing the point. These are fan sites... they post about patch releases, mod news and host little sites who make maps, textures, bots, mods and the like. They aren't gamespot wannabees. They dont do reviews.
#15 by "Ozymandis"
2001-07-31 09:41:23
ask
Gamespy sucks.  But there's good people doing the actual work at some of those sites.  And these people actually care about their communities.  This actually makes me a bit sad seeing news like this about GSI.


The actually GSI people are assholes.  I should start naming names but I'll refrain.  Fat bitches... too bad you can't get the good (communities) without the bad.
#16 by "michael "quatoria" wedge"
2001-07-31 09:44:12
michael@hardnews.org www.hardnews.org
Silly question, but would you ever visit Planet Half-Life (for example) and expect an objective review of the game they cover?


and then..

You're missing the point...They aren't gamespot wannabees. They dont do reviews.


One of us is missing something here, but I don't think it's me, 'Pache. Try to keep at least some internal consistency going here, huh?
#17 by "Apache"
2001-07-31 09:45:38
The only real "intesting" bit of news in this story is the fact that the site directors now share profits with their "editors" from what the site generates, which translates into the GameSpy Mothership not being able to manage a real payroll and pay insurance benefits to its out-of-office workers. What happened to the people who did this before? Did they get laid off?
#18 by "Apache"
2001-07-31 09:47:26
Mikey wrote:

>>One of us is missing something here, but I don't think it's me, 'Pache. Try to keep at least some internal consistency going here, huh?<<

well, scroll up to your first post:

>>What's the point in a site doing a review of *anything* if they're not going to endeavor to be objective, aside from the obvious publisher cocksuckery? If a site doesn't behave as if it has at least SOME ethical responsibility to its readers, that site doesn't deserve 'em.<<

THEY DONT REVIEW GAMES. Got it?
#19 by "michael "quatoria" wedge"
2001-07-31 09:50:25
michael@hardnews.org www.hardnews.org
THEY DONT REVIEW GAMES. Got it?


Having a discussion with you is almost exactly as productive as yelling at a wall, isn't it. Your first post stated that it's wrong to expect objectivity in reviews from a fanboy website. When I question the purpose of reviews without objectivity, you chime in with "Well, they don't do reviews anyway, so nyah!" You don't see the problem there?
#20 by "Apache"
2001-07-31 09:52:06
>>Having a discussion with you is almost exactly as productive as yelling at a wall, isn't it. Your first post stated that it's wrong to expect objectivity in reviews from a fanboy website. When I question the purpose of reviews without objectivity, you chime in with "Well, they don't do reviews anyway, so nyah!" You don't see the problem there?<<

Dude, they don't review games... that's the whole point. Scroll up and read what I wrote.
#21 by "michael "quatoria" wedge"
2001-07-31 10:01:51
michael@hardnews.org www.hardnews.org
Dude, they don't review games... that's the whole point. Scroll up and read what I wrote.


Oy vey. "Hey, this place looks familiar. Oh, wait. We're right back where we started."

Third base!
#22 by "crash"
2001-07-31 10:06:30
crash@planetcrap.com
i can't be reading that right. let me get this straight: editors now have an incentive to sell advertising? what's that sound i hear... is that baby jesus crying?

for once, i really don't know what to say to this.
#23 by "Apache"
2001-07-31 10:08:41
michael,

seriously dude, scroll up. You're missing the point entirely.
#24 by "Kelster"
2001-07-31 10:18:20
kelster@planettribes.com http://www.planettribes.com/
Eh, this GSI contract change doesn't mean much to me. As Apache said, we weren't paid an exuberant wage to begin with. The cash was a perk. Helping to develop a gaming community (and to a certain extent, your web skills and ego) is where the payoff is or isn't.

Fansite work is a hobby. Those going into it looking for fame, fortune and chicks end up dissapointed and don't last with a site for too long.

-Kel
not a site director - PT core staff/editor
#25 by "Apache"
2001-07-31 10:20:54
Crash,

>>i can't be reading that right. let me get this straight: editors now have an incentive to sell advertising? what's that sound i hear... is that baby jesus crying?<<

You're missing the boat. Planet sites arent objective source of editorial truth, they're fan sites, with one purpose in mind: promote the games they cover at any cost.
#26 by "Ashiran"
2001-07-31 10:24:56
ashiran@ashrain.net wtf.couchcrew.com
Excuse me? Are there actually people here who visit Gamespy for the reviews?

People who do this used to went to DailyRadar for there reviews, don't they?
#27 by "Morn"
2001-07-31 10:36:42
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Ah, the good old times are coming back. :)

Kelster:
Fansite work is a hobby. Those going into it looking for fame, fortune and chicks end up dissapointed and don't last with a site for too long.

But what's stopping those going into it to build a community and improve their web skills from setting something up independently?

- Morn
#28 by "Apache"
2001-07-31 10:44:57
>>Fansite work is a hobby. Those going into it looking for fame, fortune and chicks end up dissapointed and don't last with a site for too long.<<

Muahahha!

/veteran of many a planet site
#29 by "Kelster"
2001-07-31 10:58:51
kelster@planettribes.com http://www.planettribes.com/
Morn:

But what's stopping those going into it to build a community and improve their web skills from setting something up independently?

Bills and stability. Most of the smaller sites within the Tribes community died off a while ago (I was with one before joining the planet). A few larger independant sites are still around (like TribalWar and Tribes Universe. They're struggling with the cost of staying alive. TU's former director and founder left due to site stress and TW has bounced from sponsor to sponsor after UGO changed its ad policy. I haven't had to worry about server problems in two years.

Apache:

Muahahha!

/veteran of many a planet site

*sigh*

...if only my @planettribes.com addy got me women the way I thought it would...  ;)

Quick question to the other websmiths: Why do you work at your respective sites? What keeps you posting day in and day out, year after year?

-Kel
#30 by "Morn"
2001-07-31 11:04:43
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Bills and stability.

Care to explain?

You can get decent virtual server accounts with PHP, MySQL and enough traffic (as long as you don't host files) for $30-$40/month. Maybe even less. Is that too much to invest into building a "clean" community, improving your web skills, and so on and so on?

- Morn
#31 by "Gestalt"
2001-07-31 11:12:00
john@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
Houston - "by GSI giving their site directors a percent pay instead of a set amount, that could be considered incentive, which seems like a good thing"

The problem is that a) even 30% isn't going to be much because ad revenue is way down, and b) some sites are never going to pull much traffic regardless of who is running them and how good a job they're doing of it. Let's face it, unless things have changed a lot in the last year 90% of GSI's traffic comes from their top half dozen sites, and the traffic that most of the others do is fairly pitiful. Just a wild guess, but I assume you're making more money from b2b stuff like selling GameSpy tech to developers than from banner impressions these days.

I remember just a year or two ago people were bitching that the site directors were mostly volunteer staff working for nothing, now they're bitching about them getting 30% of the nothing that their site earns GSI each month. Some things never change. :)

From GSI's perspective this is a great move, but obviously it's going to suck for people who were already getting paid and are now going to be getting less in all likelihood, unless they're lucky enough to work on the one of the handful of big sites. No doubt we'll see a lot of "GSI sucks ass, c0rp0rate wh0rez" style posts, but at the end of the day they're a business with investors to keep happy. If they don't adapt to changing circumstances they'll go bankrupt and everyone will lose their jobs. I don't see how that is a better option. They're there to make money, and if that means laying people off or changing their pay and benefits to fit the revenue which is coming in, that's life. Get a helmet.


Kelster - "Fansite work is a hobby. Those going into it looking for fame, fortune and chicks end up dissapointed and don't last with a site for too long."

Amen.


Morn - "But what's stopping those going into it to build a community and improve their web skills from setting something up independently?"

If you work for GSI they handle the hosting and advertising, pay the bandwidth bills, give you a design template (if you're a full planet), let you use their file system, forums and stuff, and you get a certain amount of exposure from other sites on their network which you wouldn't get if you were on GeoCities or running a small independent site. There's pros and cons to doing it either way.
#32 by "Houston"
2001-07-31 11:29:08
houstonx@pacbell.net http://olsentwinsnude.planetcrap.com
RE: #31

I assume you're making more money from b2b stuff like selling GameSpy tech to developers than from banner impressions these days.


They sell that?  Last I can recall, it was being offered up for free to any willing developer in trade for a logo on the box.

and note Gestalt, you british bulldog you, that I said "seems like a good idea".  

Anyone can run a website for at least a good year with a small investment.  I think the major issue sites are dealing with is big graphics, flash animation, and the dreaded bandwidth sucker, the bulletin board.  The net seems dead for revenue as a media.  woo, back to the BBS and UseNet!
#33 by "Kelster"
2001-07-31 11:32:07
kelster@planettribes.com http://www.planettribes.com/
#31 Gestalt:

Morn - "But what's stopping those going into it to build a community and improve their web skills from setting something up independently?"

If you work for GSI they handle the hosting and advertising, pay the bandwidth bills, give you a design template (if you're a full planet), let you use their file system, forums and stuff, and you get a certain amount of exposure from other sites on their network which you wouldn't get if you were on GeoCities or running a small independent site. There's pros and cons to doing it either way.

Exactly. I'm able to do more than I did at XtremeTribes before it fell and don't have to worry about bills.

Morn, I'm not sure what you mean by a "clean" site. Is it the unified planet layout that bothers you? Or just GSI in general. :)
#34 by "hiredgoons"
2001-07-31 11:37:23
dburoker@home.com
#30 "Morn" wrote...
Bills and stability.

Care to explain?

You can get decent virtual server accounts with PHP, MySQL and enough traffic (as long as you don't host files) for $30-$40/month. Maybe even less. Is that too much to invest into building a "clean" community, improving your web skills, and so on and so on?

- Morn


Translation:

I have my own community site.  I do as I damn well please, and I didn't have to sell a kidney on ebay to pay for it.  And bonus - I don't have to be affiliated with a lame brand.

#35 by "Morn"
2001-07-31 11:48:55
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Gestalt!

If you work for GSI they handle the hosting and advertising, pay the bandwidth bills, give you a design template (if you're a full planet), let you use their file system, forums and stuff, and you get a certain amount of exposure from other sites on their network which you wouldn't get if you were on GeoCities or running a small independent site. There's pros and cons to doing it either way.

Hosting/bandwidth bills: there are enough places out there with inexpensive virtual server accounts. I believe $30-$40 is a small price to pay for independence. But maybe that's just me. *shrug*

Advertising: what advertising? :-)

They give you a design template: you mean this actually is an *advantage*?!

File system: I assume you are referring to FilePlanet. What's stopping you from linking to files there, even if you have a non-GSI site?

Forums: there are some excellent free forum services out there which are good enough for most sites. Considering using them even saves you traffic, you could even pay ezBoard's fee to remove the advertising.

Exposure: that is the only point I agree with. Of course making your independent site popular means a lot of work. Well, DOH!

I guess it all depends on how willing you are to actually invest time, work and even money into "building a community and improving your skills". Most of the people who're running the Planet sites apparently decided it's not worth anything to them. *shrug*

I remember just a year or two ago people were bitching that the site directors were mostly volunteer staff working for nothing, now they're bitching about them getting 30% of the nothing that their site earns GSI each month. Some things never change. :)

Yeah, now that GameSpy aren't making any decent money off the banner advertising anymore, they've finally decided to share the wealth. ROCK!

:)

Seriously though, what sickens me is the general attitude most people have that you can't create a popular website without getting "sponsored" in some way anymore. As anyone who was online before the "rise" of GSI can tell you (forget that, I know you were online too at that time), there were good gaming sites a long time before GSI/CM started building the Planet* network.

Anyway, it's so clear what is/was going on that it's not even really worth discussing.

1) GSI wanted to expand their "brand" with as little cost as possible and lured people into doing work for free by promising them "exposure", "free hosting" and so on;
2) GSI realized they needed to pay money to the more competent site directors/editors in order to actually hold on to them;
3) GSI then realized they're not making enough money themselves anymore to actually be able to PAY those people. Doh!

This story isn't really about the poor site directors being exploited -- I guess they're already happy enough because their sites get hundreds of thousands of loyal visitors every day (:b) -- but about GameSpy itself.

- Morn
#36 by "Kelster"
2001-07-31 11:52:54
kelster@planettribes.com http://www.planettribes.com/
And just to answer your question morn. :)

You can get decent virtual server accounts with PHP, MySQL and enough traffic (as long as you don't host files) for $30-$40/month. Maybe even less. Is that too much to invest into building a "clean" community, improving your web skills, and so on and so on?

I'd love to do that one day with a personal site. But honestly, I still have a lot to learn when it comes to running a site on my own. If I had the server I wouldn't know where to start. I don't have the webskills needed to code and operate a flashy dynamic site. Yet.

#34  hiredgoons:
Translation:


I have my own community site. I do as I damn well please, and I didn't have to sell a kidney on ebay to pay for it. And bonus - I don't have to be affiliated with a lame brand.

Eh. I don't view GSI as the corporate bastards some folks do. They've given me valuable web experience. And hey, I'd much rather be paid to do what I enjoy doing and be associated with a "lame brand" than work at the local Burger King. *shrug*

-Kel
#37 by "Morn"
2001-07-31 11:59:04
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
:)  Just for the record, I don't view GSI as "evil corporate bastards", either. At least not anymore. I guess all the people who stick with them have their reasons, and who am I to tell them what to do.

- Morn
#38 by "Kelster"
2001-07-31 12:08:20
kelster@planettribes.com http://www.planettribes.com/
Morn:
I guess it all depends on how willing you are to actually invest time, work and even money into "building a community and improving your skills". Most of the people who're running the Planet sites apparently decided it's not worth anything to them. *shrug*

For the record, PT means as much to me as I'm sure PlanetCrap means to you. (which I assume is worth *something!* ;)

...wow, I've really come out of lurker mode tonight...

-Kel
#39 by "fatgraham"
2001-07-31 12:41:20
graham@deadpenguin.org http://www.deadpenguin.org
are GSI still making any money from gamespy? (the program)
#40 by "Ashiran"
2001-07-31 13:13:44
ashiran@ashrain.net wtf.couchcrew.com
I know for a fact that the GameSpy code was incorperated within the game Kohan. And that games is fairly new. So I guess they can sell the stuff.
#41 by "MrPutz"
2001-07-31 13:18:06
I would be suprised to find out that GSI has even turned a profit at all

It seems to me that GSI's Money problem would be coming from investors that no longer want to invest
#42 by "asspennies"
2001-07-31 13:53:17
asspennies@counter-strike.net http://www.asspennies.org/
I'm friends with a former GSI webmaster who went through this, and it really sucks that this had to happen.  From what I hear, people are not treated very well at GSI at all - and this is really just icing on the cake.

Then again, these are not exactly opportunistic times.  The market doesn't react favorably to a losing company like GameSpy.  The unfortunate thing is, it's the employees, the ones that really built the company, that suffer.  And that's a shame.
#43 by "Morn"
2001-07-31 14:54:41
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
HearMe just died. Ouch.

- Morn
#44 by "Jeremy Witt"
2001-07-31 15:41:03
kimsbitch@succubae.com
HearMe's site:
The HearMe mission is to empower its customers with next generation communications, fundamentally and profitably revolutionizing the way people interact and companies do business.

Ahhhh!!!! The fucking marketing speak has burned my watery, swollen eyes! My mission is to rip them out of their sockets....
#45 by "llamasex"
2001-07-31 16:09:17
llamasex@yahoo.com www.drunkenlosers.com
I'd love to do that one day with a personal site. But honestly, I still have a lot to learn when it comes to running a site on my own. If I had the server I wouldn't know where to start. I don't have the webskills needed to code and operate a flashy dynamic site. Yet.


It is really easy to run a non-flashy dynamic site, it just takes time to get it from ugly to pretty.... I my case it takes a damn long time because My site is still ugly as hell. Of course I am also quite lazy...and not a coder at all.

But it costs me $20 a month I have all the bandwidth I need (had to move because I got too popular). But I think you think it is harder than it is to run one of these, granted your site is REALLY purty, and I doubt you could pull it off on your own, but the internet (in my experience) has lots of people who are willing to hep you get it fixed up and improved for free.
#46 by "llamasex"
2001-07-31 16:10:47
llamasex@yahoo.com www.drunkenlosers.com
Oh looking at some other sites they all seem to use the same set-up, there isn't anything illegal about viewing source *wink* *wink*
#47 by "Gestalt"
2001-07-31 16:11:23
john@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
Houston - "They sell that? Last I can recall, it was being offered up for free to any willing developer in trade for a logo on the box."

Hm... I'd be surprised, they don't seem that stupid. :) There's a lot of money to be made from b2b stuff, and GameSpy / Arcade tech is used in lots of new games these days for in-game browsers and that all that stuff. If they're not charging for it they're missing out on one of their biggest assets.


Morn - "Hosting/bandwidth bills: there are enough places out there with inexpensive virtual server accounts. I believe $30-$40 is a small price to pay for independence"

Of course, the bigger your site gets the higher your bandwidth costs usually. At some point you have the decision of giving up, finding a source of funding, or being b0rged by GSI. :)


Morn - "They give you a design template: you mean this actually is an *advantage*?!"

Depends on your outlook. :) It's not particularly exciting, especially as every site looks the same but in a different shade of brown / blue, but at least you have a working site design with all the back-end tools and stuff you need without needing to learn PHP/ASP/whatever.


Morn - "there were good gaming sites a long time before GSI/CM started building the Planet* network"

Definitely. But a) it costs more to do that these days, b) people seem to be less willing to put in the effort necessary to build something up from scratch, and c) they expect more. I can remember the days when I was happy to get a hundred hits a day and a couple of e-mails a week to my old GeoCities site. These days if you don't count your daily page impressions in tens of thousands or bigger you're probably considered a failure.

Also, there are so many sites around these days that getting any kind of exposure is next to impossible. How often do you see the small fansites getting linked from Blue's, Voodoo, sCary etc?


Morn - "HearMe just died. Ouch."

<sarcasm>Now there's a surprise.</sarcasm> Shame though - I'm sure there were still some good people working out there, and it always sucks when a bunch of people lose their jobs.
#48 by "Blokey"
2001-07-31 16:26:08
blokey34@hotmail.com
<rumormongering>

I know a guy who works on a Planet, and the Site Director was unhappy with this. So were a lot of them. (Natuarally!)

THE SITE DIRECTORS WERE BEING PAID FOR THE BANNER ADS AND NOT THE NEW, BIG-ASS ARTICLE ADS- without being informed.

They only told them after the pay period ended that "oh yeah guys, you'll be getting 30% of the ad share for this month, not the money you usaully get. Oh, and since we didn't have the higher-paid new ads then, you're gonna be fucked! Tomorrow on PlanetFargo . . ."

LadyIce from Planet Half Life left around the time this was done I think.

</rumormongering>
#49 by "Morn"
2001-07-31 16:27:19
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Gestalt, I agree with almost everything you said, especially that thing about expactations being a lot higher than in "the good old days". However, the Internet is huge -- I mean, honestly, it was huge 5 years ago, but now it is HUGE -- so whatever you do, and wherever you do it, you'll end up getting a bunch of visitors one way or another (all hail the mighty Google), so the question really is: do you want a HUGE amount of anonymous visitors who only visit your site because it was linked to on gamespy.com, or do you prefer a small number of loyal visitors?

Look at Lum's* site -- I don't know anything about his visitor numbers, but I assume while it's "enough" it's nothing like the major GSI sites -- but there are enough regular visitors who are loyal enough to support the site financially. The site is independent, and Lum* and his team can easily pay the server fees using the donated money. It'd be interesting to see how many of the, say, PlanetHalflife readers would donate money.

(* Yes, I know, Lum is in exile...)

And seriously, people whose primary motivation for running a website is looking at their monthly server stats are doing it all wrong IMO, especially now that you can't convert page views into money that easily. :/

- Morn
#50 by "Preacher"
2001-07-31 16:47:35
preacher@unreality.org http://www.unreality.org
In Denmark you pay 30-40 dollars a month for a webhotel and then the traffic is free.
So bandwidth is not a problem.
Of course you only have 1-200 mb space, but that's what linking to other sites is for ;)
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