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"turbine u suck!! y should we pay 4 an expansion pack while u give us shitty patches?????? i hate u fagots!!!"
June 26th 2001, 00:33 CEST by Morn

Microsoft have announced a new (actually, it's the first) expansion pack for their online RPG Asheron's Call, <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/games/zone/asheronscall/dark_majesty.asp">Dark Majesty</a>, bound to be released by the end of this year.

The Expansion Pack delivers on new additions such as housing and storage, two of the features most requested by our customers. Players will be able to purchase their own homes on designated plots of land, as well as use their residence for secure storage purposes. The Expansion Pack also kicks off the next chapter in the on-going Asheron's Call story-line by introducing the island of Marae Lassel. Marae Lassel is a sprawling new landmass which will contain new quests, dungeons, and treasures and will be accessible to all levels of players who purchase the Asheron's Call Expansion Pack.

The expansion pack will be available for $19.95 and include the original game as well as one free month of play.

So far so good.

However, some Asheron's Call players don't seem to be very excited about this news. Instead of being happy about Turbine finally implementing <b>often requested, substantial changes to the game</b> (like housing and land owning), the general consensus seems to be that all this goodness should rather be free (as part of a regular patch). In a short in-game conversation I've just had with a dozen or so players, some didn't even understand why Microsoft would be releasing a separate expansion pack if the players are already "paying $10/month for patches".

On a side note, when will online RPG players finally stop using "hi! ru leet?" lingo? Please. If you walk through the wilderness, brandishing your powerful magic broad sword and performing wabbit genocide, you don't want to hear someone say "hi im L33td00d can u buff me plz thx???".

Anyway, here's my question to you for tonight: do you think larger changes to a persistant online game should always be "free" (as part of the regular patches), or are you willing to pay for occasional "pay-to-use patches" in the shape of expansion packs?
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Home » Topic: "turbine u suck!! y should we pay 4 an expansion pack while u give us shitty patches?????? i hate u fagots!!!"

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#1 by "szcx"
2001-06-26 00:40:46
leslie@sweetfuckingchrist.com www.sweetfuckingchrist.com
When I buy a car I fully expect to have it kept full of gas and upgraded every year for the rest of my life.
#2 by "szcx"
2001-06-26 00:41:05
leslie@sweetfuckingchrist.com www.sweetfuckingchrist.com
... for free.
#3 by "Ergo"
2001-06-26 00:41:12
stu@dsl-only.net
As a long-time AC player, I'd be happy to pay for an expansion pack that included those features (no more muling! Yay!). Hell, they're adding a large new landmass. Verant charges a fee when they do this; why shouldn't Turbine? The guys complaining about this are probably the same guys that were using Gear on Darktide.
#4 by "Morn"
2001-06-26 00:43:46
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Funny, I was just about to post a new discussion topic about whether muling in games like AC is cheating.

Funny^2, I have this weird feeling that this thread is going to take a different route now. :)

- Morn
#5 by "Vengeance"
2001-06-26 00:44:12

Anyway, here's my question to you for tonight: do you think larger changes to a persistant online game should always be "free" (as part of the regular patches), or are you willing to pay for occasional "pay-to-use patches" in the shape of expansion packs?


Since when is 10 a month "free"?

Can't wait till Neverwinter is out.

Oh, and first or something.

V
#6 by "Vengeance"
2001-06-26 00:47:12
Vengeance (#5):

Anyway, here's my question to you for tonight: do you think larger changes to a persistant online game should always be "free" (as part of the regular patches), or are you willing to pay for occasional "pay-to-use patches" in the shape of expansion packs?



Since when is 10 a month "free"?

Can't wait till Neverwinter is out.

Oh, and first or something.

V


Yes, I just reinstalled CS and no, I didn't use preview :p

V
#7 by "Morn"
2001-06-26 00:47:18
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
And by the way, this thing will only be $20. Considering it includes a free month of play time, all the cool (!) new features are only $10 for current subscribers. In fact, I'm pretty sure the main motivation behind making this a retail package is to use the opportunity to put the game into shelves again, get some press and gain a whole bunch of new customers, and not to squeeze more money out of the existing customer base (which is what a lot of AC's players seem to think).

- Morn
#8 by "Morn"
2001-06-26 00:48:11
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Vengeance, when you subscribe to AC (or most, if not all other online games), you pay $10/month to play the game, not to get monthly patches.

- Morn
#9 by "Morn"
2001-06-26 00:49:24
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Also, Neverwinter Nights -- which I'm really looking forward to -- is not a massively multiplayer online RPG. I don't know why people keep comparing AC, EQ, AO and UO with Neverwinter Nights or, even worse a comparison, Diablo 2.

- Morn
#10 by "Bracket"
2001-06-26 00:53:12
thebracket@Yahoo.com http://www.tsghelp.com/
I've been playing AC for a while now, and I have to say it: I'm more than happy to pay for an expansion. Why? Because the features that are offered should help the game tremendously (housing, especially, lends a great sense of permanence to a game - Ultima showed that, even if they did make it lagarific). If it were offered as a free update, then obviously that'd be wonderful - but I understand that Turbine has to pay development costs.

There is an interesting question underneath this, though - if you subscribe to a game, should you be entitled to free updates to it? The intuitive answer is yes, although when you think about it that is probably not possible. Okay, so AC draws in 20k players at $10/month - thats $200,000 per month for them to play with. Once you pay hosting fees (I imagine their bandwidth bill is enormous), hardware replacement costs, support staff, programmers, etc. suddenly you have a LOT less every month to play with. Charging for significant updates makes it possible to bring extra programmers into projects without diverting existing content workers - and as long as labour remains divided in that manner, I'm happy to pay.
#11 by "Ergo"
2001-06-26 00:54:43
stu@dsl-only.net
#4 "Morn" wrote...
I was just about to post a new discussion topic about whether muling in games like AC is cheating.

I don't consider it cheating, since storage is something that should have been included from the start. As for housing, I'm leery of it. Ultima Online became a nightmare because of it. I can only pray that Turbine does it better.
#12 by "Talion"
2001-06-26 01:00:28
#10 "Bracket" wrote...
There is an interesting question underneath this, though - if you subscribe to a game, should you be entitled to free updates to it?

Bah, you aren't entitled to anything.  If enough people want free updates and cancel their subscriptions, Turbine or their competitors will stop charging money for them.  The question is not are you entitled, because you aren't, the question is, does it make good business sense for Turbine to do it?  My sense is yes, since everyone despite grumbling will pay it and help defray the costs of developing the new features.
#13 by "Vengeance"
2001-06-26 01:01:05
Morn (#8):
Vengeance, when you subscribe to AC (or most, if not all other online games), you pay $10/month to play the game, not to get monthly patches.

- Morn


I know, thats why I don't play it and why I look foward to NWN.  Its a rip off.  I played UO when it first came out for a few months.  I played UO for like 4 months for about $120 and Quake for about 3 years for ~40.  I'll never go back.

V
#14 by "Vengeance"
2001-06-26 01:04:30
Morn (#9):
Also, Neverwinter Nights -- which I'm really looking forward to -- is not a massively multiplayer online RPG. I don't know why people keep comparing AC, EQ, AO and UO with Neverwinter Nights or, even worse a comparison, Diablo 2.

- Morn


What is it, over 60 players on a cable modem.  It may not be a MMORPG, but its close enough.  Not to mention theirs no monthly fee, and content created by the users.

Do you really notice if theres over 3000 ppl playing at the same time as you?  I never did, other than when the network went down due to thier inability to support enough ppl.  Ahhh well.


V
#15 by "Morn"
2001-06-26 01:04:57
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
I'm kinda curious what kind of bandwidth they're using up.

Let's assume the average number of players on a single AC server is roughly 1000 (daily average). There are 8 servers, so on average there are 8000 people playing at any given time. It's probably a little bit less, but let's stick with it for this moment.

I don't know what kind of bandwidth AC uses, so I can only estimate. A 3D shooter uses roughly 4 KB/s for incoming and outgoing data together. I assume AC is a lot less accurate when it comes to movement data, so let's just say it uses half of that, that's 2 KB/s.

2 KB/s for 8000 players equals 16,000 KB/s.

In one hour, 16,000 KB/s * 3600 seconds = 57,600,000 KB = 57.6 GB.

On one day, that is 57.6 GB * 24 = 1,382.4 GB a day.

In one month, that is 1,382.4 GB * 30 = 41,472 GB a month.

Phew! That's a lot. The lowest traffic prices for colocation I've seen so far are around $2 to $3 per GB transferred. Let's just assume Microsoft have some good deals and are paying $1 for each GB transferred, that's still

$41,472 a month just for traffic.

- Morn
#16 by "Morn"
2001-06-26 01:09:25
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Vengeance, I think when you said "Its a rip off" you really meant "I don't really like massively multiplayer games", right?

And if you are really going to compare Neverwinter Nights to a MMOG, either will you be severely disappointed, or you've just not figured out yet why people play MMOGs. (I assume it's the latter.)

- Morn
#17 by "szcx"
2001-06-26 01:12:16
leslie@sweetfuckingchrist.com www.sweetfuckingchrist.com
figured out yet why people play MMOGs

i just assumed it was because they're gay and like cured meat products.
#18 by "LPMiller"
2001-06-26 01:48:35
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
this is just as bad as those complaining about AO being 12.95 a month instead of 9.95.

yeah, you can play quake 3 for free per month.  So what, it's a different game altogether.  In fact, you are starting from scratch every time you play.  Part of that fee is the persistance you pay for.  An RPG that starts you over each time you play damn well ought to be free, because it would SUCK.

LPMiller
Chief News Editor
GotApex?
#19 by "mcgrew"
2001-06-26 01:54:37
NOSPAMmcgrew@famvid.com theFragfest.com
On topic: Um, er, I'm not an RPGer. Are these expansion packs necessary to keep playing? I know if id would have charged for the 2.whatever final quake 2 patch you can't get online without, I'd have been plenty steamed. On the other hand, an expansion pack with some extra levels or something I would have had no trouble with. If I heard good stuff about it (or especially if I had specifiaclly asked for it) I'd probably even spend the money.

Again, though, if It were necessary to keep playing I'd be pissed, even though

#1 szcx said "When I buy a car I fully expect to have it kept full of gas and upgraded every year for the rest of my life."
If a chevy only ran on chevy gas, I don't think I'd buy a chevy- unless, of course, every car manufacturer had their own proprietary fuel and none would work across platforms.

In that case, especially if I had been led to believe that it needed no fuel at all, well hell yes I would demand free gas!

Of course, IMO if you guys can afford to pay every month to keep playing the same game you're making way too damned much money. My gaming cash is lined up in boxes, much of which holds ancient yet still used software.

You're paying ten bucks a month; shitty deal but you fell for it. They should at least offer you suckers free expansion packs!

#16  by Morn "Vengeance, I think when you said "Its a rip off" you really meant "I don't really like massively multiplayer games", right?"
I don't know about him, but personally I don't have a clue if I would like a mmorpg; I'm not going to pay to find out, because I DO think it's a massively massive online ripoff.
So is golf.

#17 by szcx "figured out yet why people play MMOGs... i just assumed it was because they're gay and like cured meat products."
No, that's golf.

And now off topic, well kinda,
I just came from OMM and was struck by the question, WHERE'S DEREK SMART?
#20 by "TheToadWarrior"
2001-06-26 02:04:31
toadwarrior@hotmail.com http://www.toadwarrior.org
szcx (#1):
When I buy a car I fully expect to have it kept full of gas and upgraded every year for the rest of my life.


If paid every year for as long as I used the car, yes I would. but I make one payment and that's it.

Also, the car works "out of the box"
#21 by "Darkseid-D"
2001-06-26 02:06:54
Darkseid@Captured.com www.sluggy.com
Um Mr0n


NeverWinter nights COULD be MMPog.... because the servers have the capacity to be linked ....

now that would be kinda funky, if a group .. oh lets say Epic set up a server, with id hosting one, Bioware another... you comeplete the scenario on one and youre buff enough to go to the other .. or the reward is the link to a `special` server...


Ds
#22 by "Talion"
2001-06-26 02:10:37
#20 "TheToadWarrior" wrote...
If paid every year for as long as I used the car, yes I would. but I make one payment and that's it.

Watch out for car leases.  The crafty salesmen make it sound like a good deal, but they don't cover gas!!
#23 by "wizardque"
2001-06-26 02:13:22
wizardque@yahoo.com
The next person to complain about paying $10 a month for any game that they play, needs a smack!  To show the idea in another context...my crack costs me $200 (a number out of my ass) a month, that's friggin outrageous, I'm not going to take it any more...and you quit crack.  You DON'T, complain to the dealer, send harrasing letters to your dealer, complain about having to pay for your crack pipe too.  Not only because the dealer is likely to smack you, but because it's just stupid.  So why is that all right for us online to say, "those bastards make money from us, they need to give us free shit or I'm gonna go complain on my favorite I'm a Whiner Forum(tm)"?  If you don't like the plan, DON'T PAY FOR THE PLAN!  I'm for free as much as the next guy, but get over yourselves already...If Verant/Turbine/OSI had a pay if you feel nice sort of plan, we wouldn't have games to play.

I don't agree with Vengeance on any of his posts, but at least he's not taking it up the butt and then complaining about it.  He just stopped taking it all.

What is it, over 60 players on a cable modem. It may not be a MMORPG, but its close enough. Not to mention theirs no monthly fee, and content created by the users.

Back to reality for a sec...as anyone else seen the crap ALL the craps mods that made it to the public along with things like CS?  For that one CS, we had a truckload of shit.
NW will probably be amazing, but it won't be a MMORPG replacement...by no stretch of the imagination.

-wizardque
#24 by "crash"
2001-06-26 02:20:44
crash@planetcrap.com
been following this topic on a number of boards and in a number of places, and i'd like to point out a few things that are seemingly being overlooked:

1. MS does not punish exploiters and abusers of the game. thus, your "secure house" and "secure item storage" are being guaranteed in a game that allows you to lag through doors, macro freely, and do whatever you like short of crashing the servers. how long do you think it'll take for exploiters to code a 3rd party app (which, not incidentally, MS also allows) to automate the break-in-and-steal aspect? i say three months, tops. maybe less. and the best part? they won't even get banned for it. can't wait to hear the caterwauling on this one from the suckers that pony up for this.

2. when AC was released, one of its major selling points was this (quoted from the website):

A world in constant flux -- the world of Dereth experiences incredible changes and additions each month, with new lands, monsters, quests and dungeons -- all part of the regular subscription!

i'm not sure, but i think an additional charge for an additional box on a shelf doesn't exactly qualify as "part of the regular subscription"... yet the boxed product contains everything that's supposed to be "all part of the regular subscription".

3. AO and DAoC are going to kill AC anyway. being in last place; running into the xmas 2k1 season with a five-year-old graphics engine and the lowest subscription base of any of the MMOGs currently; stale, repetitive gameplay; plenty of competition... guess you gotta do something to breathe new life into the game. too bad it's too little too late.

AO has housing, vehicles, and what looks like an intelligent PvP system built in. DAoC is more RP oriented. Shadowbane (should it ever come out) will grab all the hardcore PvPers and exploiters from AC (which, from this chair, comprise a rather large portion of the subscriber base as it is). AO and DAoC are going to be out before the xmas 2k1 season.

it's going to be interesting. i'd care more if i didn't cancel my AC account already, i suppose.

then again, when one of your producers is just a holier-than-thou fanboy with an eye on The Main Chance and your CEO has been in the chair for three months, this kinda stuff is sort of expected, i guess.

AC really went in the toilet after Ragaini left, imho. only now are we really seeing the results of that. from an epic tale of betrayal and revenge and three-party behind-the-scenes machinations, we've progressed into a mishmash of old SNL skits and some bizarro sci-fi weirdness. along with, of course, new hats that somehow didn't make it into the update.

and christ, it's raining outside. in june. wtf.
#25 by "jjz"
2001-06-26 02:24:15
#0 "Morn" wrote...

On a side note, when will online RPG players finally stop using "hi! ru leet?" lingo? Please. If you walk through the wilderness, brandishing your powerful magic broad sword and performing wabbit genocide, you don't want to hear someone say "hi im L33td00d can u buff me plz thx???".


Get used to this.  It's becoming more and more prevalent everywhere.  It sucks, but it's an avalanche effect.  You can have your small bastions of literacy here and there, but I think for the most part it's a lost cause.
#26 by "crash"
2001-06-26 02:26:10
crash@planetcrap.com
oh and, Morn:

On a side note, when will online RPG players finally stop using "hi! ru leet?" lingo? Please.


in AC, you want this command:

/filter -speech

it makes the game so much more pleasant, especially when you have to visit towns.
#27 by "UnionCarbide"
2001-06-26 02:31:51
smythe@bangg.org http://www.bangg.org
Great, I can just see the subway now:

Azn Azzrpr says, "HOUS NEER QBAR LOOKIN 4 SHARDS/MATTY . . . . SNED /TELL"
I R Leetor says, "looking for PPGSA/Mattyrobe/shards/motes, have house near yanshi"
Azn Azzrpr says, "HOUS NEER QBAR LOOKIN 4 SHARDS/MATTY . . . . SNED /TELL"
Azn Azzrpr says, "HOUS NEER QBAR LOOKIN 4 SHARDS/MATTY . . . . SNED /TELL"
Robbie Realtor says, "I have deeds for every aluvian style house, come open a trade window!  SW corner near door!"
Azn Azzrpr says, "HOUS NEER QBAR LOOKIN 4 SHARDS/MATTY . . . . SNED /TELL"
Azn Azzrpr says, "HOUS NEER QBAR LOOKIN 4 SHARDS/MATTY . . . . SNED /TELL"

Joy.
#28 by "szcx"
2001-06-26 02:38:14
leslie@sweetfuckingchrist.com www.sweetfuckingchrist.com
so if i want to buy a house from a character, and as we're doing the deal he trips over and falls on my sword and then i twist it around some, you know, to dislodge it, and he dies... can i just take the deed?
#29 by "crash"
2001-06-26 02:46:04
crash@planetcrap.com
szcx, 28:

if you were playin on Darktide, sure, but AC is 90% non-PvP.

and to the ppl above sayin that payin 10/month for a game is stupid, consider this: before i started playin AC two years ago, i'd buy 2 or 3 games a month, every month. that's, what, around 1400 bucks a year. since i began playin AC, i've bought maybe one game every other month, and then only really good ones. way i see it, i'm saving about a hundred bucks a month, while still getting to play quality games.

so it's not quite as stupid as it sounds, when you look at it like that. :)
#30 by "TheToadWarrior"
2001-06-26 03:14:11
toadwarrior@hotmail.com http://www.toadwarrior.org
Paying per month for a game is lame. Soon they'll expect us to pay for deathmatching as well.

Besides, when I pay for something, I expect it to work as it should and it shouldn't be ruined by cheaters. That's why I pay for my TV programming but not my games.
#31 by "Talion"
2001-06-26 04:28:43
#30 "TheToadWarrior" wrote...
Paying per month for a game is lame. Soon they'll expect us to pay for deathmatching as well.

Yes, they will...if they are paying for a huge server farm and enough bandwidth to support 10,000 simultaneous players.

I would go on to explain the difference, but I think everyone here is smart enough to understand the economic realities of the situation, even if they choose to ignore them and whine about monthly fees.
#32 by "crash"
2001-06-26 04:45:53
crash@planetcrap.com
heh. never did get around to answering the original question, which was:

Anyway, here's my question to you for tonight: do you think larger changes to a persistant online game should always be "free" (as part of the regular patches), or are you willing to pay for occasional "pay-to-use patches" in the shape of expansion packs?

for AC? the former, because that was one of the game's major selling points. when you go out on a limb and say "We'll never have expansion packs because we update the content monthly!", and then announce an expansion pack, you're liars. and to a lesser extent, thieves.

if they'd never said the content updates would always be included, this wouldn't be an issue.

imo.
#33 by "TheToadWarrior"
2001-06-26 05:13:17
toadwarrior@hotmail.com http://www.toadwarrior.org
Talion (#31):
#30 "TheToadWarrior" wrote...

Paying per month for a game is lame. Soon they'll expect us to pay for deathmatching as well.

Yes, they will...if they are paying for a huge server farm and enough bandwidth to support 10,000 simultaneous players.

I would go on to explain the difference, but I think everyone here is smart enough to understand the economic realities of the situation, even if they choose to ignore them and whine about monthly fees.


I'm most certainly aware of the difference. However, some games, just as Q3 and H-L require authentication. It's only a matter of time until they decide to implement that in every game and them decide they deserve $5 or $10 a month for that sever.

Besides, it's a good way to force people to buy your new products. Who'd pay for Quake(if you had to), when the majority of the players have moved on? I'm sure Id could care less if you're still playing Quake, they'd prefer everyone played Quake 3. Just as Epic rather we played UT which is probably why we had to virtually beg for the final Unreal patch they promised so many times and Legend seems content on not fixing the online coop problem they've created with Unreal Gold. Coop is popular in Unreal, surely they'd make sure it worked or got around to fixing it. After all, they're making money off the damn game. Support and the Unreal series don't seem to go together at all. >:(
#34 by "G-Man"
2001-06-26 05:20:56
jonmars@earthlink.net http://www.shiftlock.org
#30 "TheToadWarrior" wrote...
Paying per month for a game is lame. Soon they'll expect us to pay for deathmatching as well.

You know I remember reading that id software contemplated a pay-per-play model back when Quakeworld was being developed, but abandoned the idea. It was probably a very wise choice in retrospect.

Besides, when I pay for something, I expect it to work as it should and it shouldn't be ruined by cheaters. That's why I pay for my TV programming but not my games.

Riiiight.

 - [g.man]
#35 by "JMCDaveL"
2001-06-26 05:24:35
jmcdavel@mailandnews.com http://www.thedesignersrepublic.com/
AC has included content updates with nearly every patch, and I imagine they will continue to do so.  I find it hilarious that everytime there is an online game thread the same arguments come up...

"NEVERWINTER NIGTHS IS GONNA OWN THIS!!!! IT WILL BE THE BEST CAUSE BLOWARE MADE IT AND THEY NEVAR MAKE BAD GAMEZ EVER EVER EVER!! IM GONNA BE A DUNGEN MASTAH!!!~~!!!"

"PAYING FOR GAMES IS SUCK! I DONT WANNA PAY EVERY MONTH!! WHY CANT IT BE FREE LIKE QUAKE?!? OR DIABLOW 2??"

--jmc
#36 by "shaithis"
2001-06-26 05:35:14
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
WEEEEYAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH!

I stopped playing AC when my bank had to recall all of its credit cards due to a security issue, and sent me a new one. I got an email from MS saying "we can't seem to charge your card anymore! Give us a new one!"

Which I thought about, and then decided not to do.

And that's my story.

-shai
#37 by "shaithis"
2001-06-26 05:36:05
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
Oh, yes, and also... NWN is going to give you head and make you breakfast afterward.

Least, given the ridiculous hype, that's what I'm assuming.

-shai
#38 by "Narcopolo"
2001-06-26 05:44:25
#33 TheToadWarrior-
However, some games, just as Q3 and H-L require authentication. It's only a matter of time until they decide to implement that in every game and them decide they deserve $5 or $10 a month for that sever.


The servers those games use are provided free of charge to id and Valve by the community.  If the companies start charging per month, then I'd expect those servers to get a cut.  Or else it'll be a rather unpopular game, when there are no servers running it.
#39 by "Terata"
2001-06-26 05:49:07
jeremys@artifact-entertainment.com
If they don't think it's worth $20, they shouldn't buy it.  That's how capitalism works.  It's very simple, really.
#40 by "Dethstryk"
2001-06-26 06:19:29
jemartin@tcainternet.com
G-Man (#34):
You know I remember reading that id software contemplated a pay-per-play model back when Quakeworld was being developed, but abandoned the idea. It was probably a very wise choice in retrospect.

I seriously hope they wouldn't charge people to run their own servers, on their own bandwidth.

I'm all for these MMORPGs charging every month, because the developers themselves are running and maintaing the servers necessary to run the game. They play for the bandwidth.

Now, if they didn't provide these servers that'd be a different matter.


--
Dethstryk
#41 by "Lesaonar"
2001-06-26 06:29:43
Back in BETA they said all new content would be delivered via free monthly patches and reafirmed that again in retail and then they go and pull this crap?!?! WTH will even believe a word they say now? Packaging it with the original AC is completely ass. So instead of just buying the addon you have to buy both and pay for a separate account and the original one essentially becomes obsloete, since you won't have the addon enabled. Have a couple accounts? Well too bad since it seems you'll have to go and buy 2 more copies just to play what they PROMISED would be delivered for free.
Glad I quit AC a month or 2 back (played from beta0 until I quit), if I hadn't I sure as hell would be now. I don't support liars and thieves, something I thought the AC community was against. Oh nm, maybe Turbine and M$ are just "roleplaying" a thief.

/rude M$ and Turbine
#42 by "Lesaonar"
2001-06-26 06:32:51
Deathstryk you're wrong. M$ host the servers, and Turbine has sweet FA to do with what happens to the servers. M$ in actuality has very little to do with DEV other than oking certain aspects.
#43 by "Just2Swt"
2001-06-26 06:37:31
sweet-1@usa.net
I agree with Terata..... If AC started out free... then raised it to what is now.. people would have whined.. but they didnt so, it's nothing.... To pay a lousy 20 bucks for a Big New expansion is worth it.. especially if it covers one month free (hopefully not just for a newly made account-since the expansion is also a stand-alone AC game)..so you are basically only paying 10 bucks or so for a pretty big update.    If you dont like... dont but it... Once again Terata said it perfect~! =)
#44 by "Warren Marshall"
2001-06-26 06:43:05
warren@epicgames.com epicboy.flipcode.com
TheToadWarrior (#33):
Besides, it's a good way to force people to buy your new products. Who'd pay for Quake(if you had to), when the majority of the players have moved on? I'm sure Id could care less if you're still playing Quake, they'd prefer everyone played Quake 3. Just as Epic rather we played UT which is probably why we had to virtually beg for the final Unreal patch they promised so many times and Legend seems content on not fixing the online coop problem they've created with Unreal Gold. Coop is popular in Unreal, surely they'd make sure it worked or got around to fixing it. After all, they're making money off the damn game. Support and the Unreal series don't seem to go together at all. >:(

Not to get off on a rant ... but UT is over a year old.  Unreal is getting on to 3 years old.  How long do you expect patches and support?

Yes, the final Unreal patch took way too long and we were totally at fault on that.  But other than that, I'd say Epic's support of the community goes far beyond what most companies provide ...

#45 by "Dethstryk"
2001-06-26 06:51:07
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Lesaonar (#42):
Deathstryk you're wrong. M$ host the servers, and Turbine has sweet FA to do with what happens to the servers. M$ in actuality has very little to do with DEV other than oking certain aspects.

Just because of your cute little acronym (M$) for Microsoft I'm already going to take away some of the credibility of your statement.

You think that Turbine pays absolutely nothing out of the user accounts, or that Microsoft gets none of the money that comes in from monthly fees? Give me a break.

The point is, that the user fees will help pay for, or completely pay for, the cost of running the server(s) for thousands of users.


--
Dethstryk
#46 by "None-1a"
2001-06-26 06:54:30
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a
#0 "Morn" wrote...
Anyway, here's my question to you for tonight: do you think larger changes to a persistant online game should always be "free" (as part of the regular patches), or are you willing to pay for occasional "pay-to-use patches" in the shape of expansion packs?


Depends, ACs monthly changes are one of the biggest draws to the game (10 bucks and new stuff each month woot). But when the changes get to be to large an expansion is just fine. This sounds like exactly what's happening here no biggy. At lest they're not milking people would of an extra $20 bucks every 4 months and offering next to nothing for your 10 buck montly charges.

#39 "Terata" wrote...
If they don't think it's worth $20, they shouldn't buy it. That's how capitalism works. It's very simple, really.


Your forgetting this is video game capitalism, you must buy it plan and simple. Your wacky ideas of normal capitalism don't apply here.
#47 by "TheToadWarrior"
2001-06-26 06:58:18
toadwarrior@hotmail.com http://www.toadwarrior.org
Warren Marshall (#44):

Not to get off on a rant ... but UT is over a year old. Unreal is getting on to 3 years old. How long do you expect patches and support?

Yes, the final Unreal patch took way too long and we were totally at fault on that. But other than that, I'd say Epic's support of the community goes far beyond what most companies provide ...



Unreal Gold is not over 3 years old, it came out after UT. Yes it's not new content, but they've rereleased the game and made some modifications and have made money off of it. Their modifications screwed up the way the game is supposed to work, so yes I do expect support. I've bought every Unreal game, so I didn't really need Unreal Gold but it had some nice benefits(the GUI, saves space, etc), so I gave Infogrames and Legend more of my money so I could get the same performance as I did from Unreal & Na Pali as well as the new features. They certainly should have fixed the problems. It's not like I'm being anal like those people that want the smallest mistakes in the game fixed(like grammar errors), I want it to work as they claim it will. Is that honestly too much to ask? Yes Unreal is 3 years old but it works fine, it's Unreal Gold I want fixed.

#48 by "Khyle"
2001-06-26 07:02:11
lordkhyle@yahoo.com
Paying per month for a game is lame. Soon they'll expect us to pay for deathmatching as well.

Besides, when I pay for something, I expect it to work as it should and it shouldn't be ruined by cheaters. That's why I pay for my TV programming but not my games.

theToadwarrior:  Hate to tell you but your TV program is priced on a certain amount of 'cheater' people with descrammblers and such.  

People if you think everything works out of the box why is theres such a thing as returns? Think everyone returns stuff just because they dont like it? Cars are defect free either.  Look at Ford.  

Bottom Line, if you dont like it protest with your pocketbook and dont play.  

Morn: Most companies that do these type of gaming dont pay by the GB I/O its done on the total bandwidth utilized per sec over a period of time.   In addition, theres more than just 8 servers behind each land.   Theres prolly hundreds behind each 'land' per se.
#49 by "Anonymous"
2001-06-26 07:12:40
Thinking...
#50 by "Tenlashes"
2001-06-26 07:24:59
Uh no. Uh no.@microsoft.com
Hmmm.  Yes, ten dollars.  Now, when i was young, oh say, 15 years ago...  I'd have to mow a lawn for $10, so yes, I may have bitched over paying $10, but then again I hated mowing the grass.  Nowadays, $10 is 10 minutes of my day, and I personally can't believe the crying going on.  If your a kid here, then that is what mommy and daddy's credit card is for.  If your an adult, then i feel sorry for you.  To think you don't mind spending $4 for a pack of cigarettes, $30 on a weekend beer run, or $50 for a line of coke.  Where are your priorities?  You either love games and suffer for an hour a month to pay the bill, or you don't... and you go on with your drug induced lifestyles.  Your $10 goes to pay for the wire, people's jobs, new servers... we aren't all AI yet, people still run this stuff, people still program this stuff... Just my 17 cents.
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Home » Topic: "turbine u suck!! y should we pay 4 an expansion pack while u give us shitty patches?????? i hate u fagots!!!"

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