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Voodoo Extreme in Story Cloning Scandal!
May 29th 2001, 18:26 CEST by Morn

John Apps is not very happy. He recently wrote a <a href="http://www.ianag.com/cgi-bin/reviews.cgi?name=radeonve&p=1">review</a> of the Radeon VE, published by <a href="http://www.ianag.com">I am not a geek.com</a> on May 16th. On the 29th, Voodoo Extreme published <a href="http://www.voodooextreme.com/hw/reviews/radeon/">their own review</a>, which has a suprising amount of similarities to John's own review.

Here's a passage from John's review:

ATI has also removed the transform and lighting engine on the VE.  Still Few games take advantage of this and on a budget card it isn't very necessary, this card has a lot of other performance hindrances that will become a performance factor long before the missing T & L engine.  And finally ATI has also reduced the RAMDAC from 360MHz to 300MHz, which  slightly reduces the 2D image sharpness from that of the original.

And here's a bit from VE's:

ATI has also removed the transform and lighting engine on the VE.  Still Few games take advantage of this and on a budget card it isn't very necessary, this card has a lot of other performance hindrances that will become a performance factor long before the missing T&L engine. And finally ATI has also reduced the RAMDAC from 360MHz to 300MHz, which slightly reduces the 2D image sharpness from that of the original.

There are more parts which look quite similar.

According to John Apps, Mike "Buliwyf" Stone, author of VE's review, had this to say:

I stole NOTHING. most of that was from ATI itself, my editors even browsed over both, even sharky and anandtechs site as well

I credit your guys site quite often and would never rip anyone off.

John:

I don't know how he can say that when his 3rd paragraph is identical to mine.  I did not take that from ATI that is my own, and he had the nerve to steal it word for word and then deny it.  From what he said in his letter it sounds like he cut and paste other parts of his review from sharky and anandtechs.


Ah, classic crap material!

<b>Update:</b> Robert "Apache" Howarth has posted an <a href="http://www.voodooextreme.com/comments.taf?postID=15848">apology to John Apps</a>, saying that the article has been removed. Awww. Group hug! :)
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Home » Topic: Voodoo Extreme in Story Cloning Scandal!

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#1 by "Warren Marshall"
2001-05-29 18:29:56
warren@epicgames.com epicboy.flipcode.com
I was hoping this was Apache's fault, but no such luck.  :P
#2 by "szcx"
2001-05-29 18:34:14
szcx@bersirc.com http://www.pocketchrist.com/
it's still apache's fault.
#3 by "LaMFear"
2001-05-29 18:41:09
stekker@hotmail.com
Well the comments at VE are gone, as is the post. It's still on the top left under "in-house" Also, in the removed commets, some posters were claiming their posts had been deleted and/or edited.
And now that 3rd paragraph has changed in some mysterious way...

If this is VE's idea of damage control, it's VERY bad.
#4 by "asspennies"
2001-05-29 18:41:59
asspennies@counter-strike.net http://www.asspennies.org/
I'm kinda surprised the review wasn't spiced up with some glorious pimp talk.
#5 by "Gabe"
2001-05-29 18:45:58
gakruger@hotmail.com http://www.refracted.com
#4 "asspennies" wrote...
I'm kinda surprised the review wasn't spiced up with some glorious pimp talk.

First hint that it was probably plagiarized.
#6 by "avixe"
2001-05-29 18:47:30
Duck and cover.
#7 by "Matt Gallant"
2001-05-29 18:48:19
mg@tmbg.org http://truemeaningoflife.com
Gabe (#5):
#4 "asspennies" wrote...

I'm kinda surprised the review wasn't spiced up with some glorious pimp talk.

First hint that it was probably plagiarized.


ZIIING
#8 by "Senor Barborito"
2001-05-29 19:01:34
As much fun as it is, I don't get the point of this - it's not going to make VE look any worse than it already does.  Infinite stupidity plus one is still infinite stupidity, no?

Now if this ended in VE going under, I think that would be cause for an update, a little celebration - perhaps a bottle of champagne and a round of 'Ding Dong the witch is dead' carols.

--SB
#9 by "szcx"
2001-05-29 19:04:49
szcx@bersirc.com http://www.pocketchrist.com/
I can't wait for the next a VE editorial bemoans the lack of originality in games...
#10 by "Stepto"
2001-05-29 19:12:52
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
Cut and paste monkeys caught cutting and pasting!  Film at 11!

S.
#11 by "BrotherNumsey"
2001-05-29 19:17:08
brothernumsey@zombieworld.com
VE is a pack of whores.
#12 by "tsfr"
2001-05-29 19:17:57
tsfr@zombieworld.com www.planetblah.com
I think it's time for DDI to take his little brother out behind the woodshed...

-tsfr
#13 by "JeffD"
2001-05-29 19:21:29
jeffd@fags.gamersangst.com www.planetblah.com
Man, VE has certainly got pimp-slapped in their hoochy-mama lovin' faces.  

I suggest that in this thread we should all speak in VE-ese.
#14 by "Stepto"
2001-05-29 19:24:01
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
Hey has anyone looked into the possibility that this John guy and this Mike guy are the same guy, just trying to make a living in a horrible dot com economy by selling the same story to two different sites?

It sounds like a pretty good scam, since he could probably count on the VE Pimp Smack Speak translator thing to make the article unrecognizable from the real deal.  Next thing you know he'll be asking for donations cause he can't pay his taxes.

S.
#15 by "Matt Gallant"
2001-05-29 19:24:15
mg@tmbg.org http://truemeaningoflife.com
JeffD (#13):
Man, VE has certainly got pimp-slapped in their hoochy-mama lovin' faces.

I suggest that in this thread we should all speak in VE-ese.


Spicy f'n suggestion!
#16 by "Crispin"
2001-05-29 19:29:53
crispin@gamersangst.com www.gamersangst.com
WHAM BIZZOW BIZNATCHES!  CHECKATCH OUT THE NEW 3M MOUSE GAMING SURFACEATCH PAD BAM AT THE KICKASS VE REVIEW SITE.  THEN STICKATCH AROUND FOR FREAKACHU POWER PLAY WET TSHIRT FRAGTASTIC BIZZNATCH HOOSEGOW FROGLEGS FORK-IN-THE-FACE HOT FUDGE SURPRISE!

WE HAVE NO SLAMBASTIC IDEA WHAT WE'RE SMACKTACULAR TALKING ABOUT FRACK FRICKIN EITHER .
#17 by "Luke "Theseus" Nockles"
2001-05-29 19:38:50
theseus@cpgaming.com
Har.  I've always been rather cynical about VE.  Now substance exists. ;)
#18 by "szcx"
2001-05-29 19:39:16
szcx@bersirc.com http://www.pocketchrist.com/
has anyone looked into the possibility that this John guy and this Mike guy are the same guy, just trying to make a living in a horrible dot com economy by selling the same story to two different sites?

Are you channeling Andy?
#19 by "Luke "Theseus" Nockles"
2001-05-29 19:41:05
theseus@cpgaming.com
Matt Gallant (#15):
JeffD (#13):

Man, VE has certainly got pimp-slapped in their hoochy-mama lovin' faces.

I suggest that in this thread we should all speak in VE-ese.


Spicy f'n suggestion!

Zesty
#20 by "Chris Johnson"
2001-05-29 19:44:10
Oopsie!

At first I wa thinking the two might have been ripped form an ATI pimp-tastic press release or white paper, but when John denied that it was, then all bets were off.

Not that I put a whole lot of credence in any website review usually, but this has definitely given me and anyone else reason enough to stay away from them even more...
#21 by "szcx"
2001-05-29 19:47:43
szcx@bersirc.com http://www.pocketchrist.com/
I was hoping this was Apache's fault, but no such luck. :P

Apache is just the Managing Editor, it's not like he read both reviews and couldn't spot the blatant plaigerism... oh, wait.
#22 by "Chris Johnson"
2001-05-29 19:53:55
From VoodooExtreme's Front Page o' Love...

An apology: Plagiarism is not cool 10:37 AM (your time) - Brandon "Killer Bee" Park - In-House: Announcements -  (20)

It was recently brought to my attention that an article from VE, and an article over at IANAG had a few too many similarities.  I have read both articles and I have to agree.  While I do not know the circumstances or the environment that Mike was in when he wrote the article, I cannot excuse ANYONE for citing someone elses work and not giving credit where credit is due.  If you have been coming to VE for any period of time you know that when we post news we always credit the source.  And while our attitude can be on the extreme side, we are nonetheless professionals.  I would like to personally apologize to IANAG for any material that may have been taken from their review.

I have not been able to reach Billy or Apache on this matter, I am removing the article until this can be resolved.

#23 by "szcx"
2001-05-29 19:58:27
szcx@bersirc.com http://www.pocketchrist.com/
No mention of their removing (editing?) comments in the VE forums though.
#24 by "dukope"
2001-05-29 19:58:41
the plot:
"Mike 'Buliwyf' Stone" is a pen-name for whoever "handles" their reviews.

VE will blame "Mike Stone" for the steal, then vow to never hire "him" again.

Enter "Joe 'Persnatchitus' Gorpo"..
#25 by "Jadawin"
2001-05-29 20:01:42
No, a nick like 'Buliwyf' has to be real- no one would ever come up with it as a fake.
#26 by "Greg"
2001-05-29 20:04:22
greg417@worldnet.att.net http://www.insidemacgames.com
Written on VoodooExtreme:

While I do not know the circumstances or the environment that Mike was in when he wrote the article


What is that supposed to mean? Was Mike in the double-wide hitting the smack when he "wrote" the review?

This shouldn't happen, especially since the web can be checked almost instantly for similar types of articles.

Greg
#27 by "Luke "Theseus" Nockles"
2001-05-29 20:05:36
theseus@cpgaming.com
This topic is yet more proof that Morn is indeed andy.  The two people are as one.
#28 by "^mortis^"
2001-05-29 20:06:46
http://www.goddamnindependent.com
Ahh, the pli-zot thiz-ickens, yo word.  Mah g-dawgs from the west side gots tha mad proper jiz-ournalistic skillz.


^m^
#29 by "Stepto"
2001-05-29 20:15:55
stepto@gamersangst.com http://www.gamersangst.com
If I was channeling Andy, I would have already sold 3 articles to the register detailing how VE has a machine that generates pimptalk, John and Mike are the same guy, and 3DRealms stole 2 paragraphs from some poor blind crippled girl's school paper on Las Vegas for DNF.

Hootchie sweet dick willy with the dialed lookin' ho'bag on the slamma jamma pimp down.

Crackpipe!

S.
#30 by "George Broussard"
2001-05-29 20:17:02
georgeb@3drealms.com
I have not been able to reach Billy or Apache on this matter, I am removing the article until this can be resolved.


Problem solved.  Beatdown will commence.  Next topic please :)
#31 by "superion"
2001-05-29 20:28:54
http://www.veryshamefull.com
haha freakachu, that's great.
#32 by "Crispin"
2001-05-29 20:29:05
crispin@gamersangst.com www.gamersangst.com
Stepto's favorite movie

CACODEMON!
#33 by "LPMiller"
2001-05-29 20:29:25
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
It isn't a pen name, I know the man.

LPMiller
Chief News Editor
Gotapex.com
#34 by "Evi|ivE"
2001-05-29 20:35:27
It would be nice if Billy Wilson still actually worked on VE.   But he obviously stopped giving a shit about 6 or 7 months ago.
#35 by "LPMiller"
2001-05-29 20:36:00
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Actually, I more than know him; he handles entertainment postings on the weekends for us.  Obviously, we are reviewing the situation - he doesn't write reviews for us, and only recently 'moonlighted' over at VE.  We like him; he's a nice guy, but we are discussing what if anything to do about it.

I don't know that we will; he hasn't done this on our site, and I guess we need to see how it plays out, and what he says to us.

LPMiller
Chief News Editor
GotApex?
#36 by "Morn"
2001-05-29 20:59:14
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Theseus, I wish. :)

- Morn
#37 by "JeffD"
2001-05-29 21:10:45
jeffd@fags.gamersangst.com www.planetblah.com
Odd.  Faster than a john on smack VE has pulled the apology that they posted.  I was perusing the forums under that post and it just went away.
#38 by "Chris Johnson"
2001-05-29 21:15:35
JeffD:  Yeah I noticed that too.  How very odd.

I think it got to the poit were former VE-ers were telling some fairly sordid tales about what had been/ has happened over there in the comments, and they pulled it.  Someone over there did anyways.  (A good one of which I managed to copy at a friend's request.)

And here I thought revisionist history was relegated only to George Orwell novels and psychotics.
#39 by "LPMiller"
2001-05-29 21:18:30
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I saved this one...I imagine it will get pulled pretty quickly.

Here is the post that I put up just minutes before they shut it down :

Sorry about the "blah" post guys - I was trying to remember my comments password .. all I have to say is this situation is really messed up. Ignore my [VE] tag, I haven't been with VE since January or so - in other words I'm not trying to represent VE in any way. Anyways, on to the goods ..

I started visiting VoodooExtreme when it first launched and I've known Billy on more personal terms for over a year and a half after I began working the the gaming journalism / web development scene. Billy does work another job yes, and believe it or not the gaming news scene is probably more stressful than what he does at his real life job. He's been getting fried out, he's trying to fight a drug addiction to pain killers and he suffers from severe migraines / cluster headaches (which I can relate to). I honestly believe the only reason VE still exists to this day is because Billy just doesn't want to see it die and he's been trying to keep it going despite his struggles with himself and his own problems. Lowtax unfortunately was fired because he began to prioritize Something Awful .. was it a mistake on his part? I don't think so, I love Something Awful and he's been quite committed to it despite the fact that he doesn't have a steady flow of income. Robert (Apache) has major mood problems .. he's plagued by depression and has a heavy addiction to alcohol. He's become very rude to fans and even former friends / staff members lately. I'm not sure how many of you saw his comments when he went off on people when he was putting down the Shack for asking for donations but it was pretty ruthless. The next day, Billy was discussing removing him with me and Robert immediately posted a apology and began threatening suicide publically. Robert works hard yes, but he's just as burned out as Billy and he's lost any bit of kindness left in his body. Manveer (Eidelon) is a good kid, he wasn't available as much as Robert but he worked his butt off. Chris was let go primarily because of his age, he was a young guy and Billy didn't think that he properly represented VE .. he was also paid the least despite the fact he was usually the main news hound.

Now Mike, although I haven't gotten to know him .. he's been working hard but this is really uncalled for. His actions totally degraded the quality and credibility of VoodooExtreme and this is something that will be looked down upon for months or even years to come. He caused irreversable damage to VoodooExtreme and I feel that this whole situation just knocked out another brick out of the struggling foundation that is holding up VoodooExtreme through these tough times. I feel sorry for Mike, I really wish he didn't do what he did but based off all the evidence I have seen .. he is guilty. Please stop knocking this other site, they are just defending themselves and their hard work. This isn't the only time that VE has done things like this anyways, I saw in a previous post that someone said that VE steals news stories. I can confirm that as a former employee of VE .. we were told to give as little credit as possible if at all. Robert is very guilty of stealing other sites exclusive pics and posting them himself thus robbing a struggling fansite of traffic that they deserve. VE has been going downhill and in all honestly I think that for anything to improve, VE needs to do a little cleaning up.

For those of you wondering what happened to me .. I started off on a bad note after being slandered by GameSpy. GameSpy deliberatly damaged my reputation and image to Dave Morrison (Octane) and Robert Howarth (Apache). It seemed as if the two made it a mission to remove me .. after a short arguement with Chris O'Brien after posting a news story that he didn't feel was newsworthy, I was forcefully cut from VE by Robert and Dave without any proper authorization. Robert and Dave run things at VE .. they threatened to quit if Billy did not remove me despite the fact I was one of the hardest / most dedicated workers on the site while I was helping out during the Christmas season.

I can't predict the fate of VE, but I can say that it doesn't look good. I hope Billy opens his eyes and does a little in house cleaning .. he needs to jump up on the reigns again and realize that he owns VE and has control over it's quality. I'm done writing for now .. I hope this has cleared up some of your questions.

Ryan "TheMystic" Lord
GameSpy Industries - Inactive Web Developer / Project Manager
VoodooExtreme - Former News Editor / Content Developer
InvisibleDream.com - Site Developer / Creator


I just found it interesting.

LPMiller
Chief News Editor
GotApex?
#40 by "szcx"
2001-05-29 21:18:48
szcx@bersirc.com http://www.pocketchrist.com/
(A good one of which I managed to copy at a friend's request.)

You've got half of the Voodoo Extreme Method worked out, now all you need to do is press Ctrl+V into a new PlanetCrap message...
#41 by "Chris Johnson"
2001-05-29 21:20:36
40: bwahahaha... oh now that was rude.  f'n pimptastic rude, yo!

Besides, LPMIller posted the same one in 39, above.
#42 by "Chris Johnson"
2001-05-29 21:22:25
Not to be outdone, Apache comes to the...erm... "rescue"... :P

ATi review taken down 12:25 PM - Robert "Apache" Howarth - In-House: Announcements

Pending an investigation we are taking down the review of the Radeon VE, which some people have deemed a little too similar to another (cough). Mike claims that he was using the ATi media material (you know, basic PR mumbo-mumbo quoting features and that jazz that companies give out for reviews) and Mike will be sending us those materials, so we can see what's up. Mike has been put on probation for the time being until we sort things out. Thanks...


"Pending an investigation"  Hah.

Here.
#43 by "Creole Ned"
2001-05-29 21:23:48
cned@telus.net
Apache has posted a new story:

Pending an investigation we are taking down the review of the Radeon VE, which some people have deemed a little too similar to another (cough). Mike claims that he was using the ATi media material (you know, basic PR mumbo-mumbo quoting features and that jazz that companies give out for reviews) and Mike will be sending us those materials, so we can see what's up. Mike has been put on probation for the time being until we sort things out. Thanks...


It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
#44 by "Creole Ned"
2001-05-29 21:24:21
cned@telus.net
Damn you and your CTRL-V, Chris Johnson!

:P
#45 by "Apache"
2001-05-29 21:24:39
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
Pending an investigation we are taking down the review of the Radeon VE, which some people have deemed a little too similar to another (cough). Mike claims that he was using the ATi media material (you know, basic PR mumbo-mumbo quoting features and that jazz that companies give out for reviews) and Mike will be sending us those materials, so we can see what's up. Mike has been put on probation for the time being until we sort things out. Thanks...
#46 by "dukope"
2001-05-29 21:25:47
cue VE implosion..
#47 by "Luke "Theseus" Nockles"
2001-05-29 21:26:00
theseus@cpgaming.com
szcx (#40):
(A good one of which I managed to copy at a friend's request.)

You've got half of the Voodoo Extreme Method worked out, now all you need to do is press Ctrl+V into a new PlanetCrap message...

One of the best crapper posts ever.
#48 by "szcx"
2001-05-29 21:26:11
szcx@bersirc.com http://www.pocketchrist.com/
He's got the mad Ctrl+V skillz, yo!  Chris, you should give up the software engineering gig and switch to web journalism.  It's obviously your true calling.
#49 by "Chris Johnson"
2001-05-29 21:26:19
Hahahaha!  I have defeated you Ned!  Now, bow before me!  Kneel before Zod!

Um.. it slipped... sorry.
#50 by "dukope"
2001-05-29 21:27:27
Pending an investigation we are taking down the review of the Radeon VE, which some people have deemed a little too similar to another (cough). Mike claims that he was using the ATi media material (you know, basic PR mumbo-mumbo quoting features and that jazz that companies give out for reviews) and Mike will be sending us those materials, so we can see what's up. Mike has been put on probation for the time being until we sort things out. Thanks...


..thought i'd post it a fourth time.
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