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T O P I C
The End for Indrema
April 11th 2001, 15:10 CEST by Buccaneer

Earlier this week, the <a href="http://www.indrema.com/">Indrema Entertainment System</a> was cancelled due to heavy funding problems.

Indrema president John Gildred told <a href="http://www.videobusiness.com/games/040901_indrema_termination.asp">Video Business</a>:

<quote>"Although there's a lot of interest in the product, the grim reality is that after six months of looking, we're not able to find funding to continue the operation. I already let go of several staff members and will have to let the rest of the staff go this week."</quote>
Indrema was another promising console project which used Linux as its operating system and was intented to support interactive TV, MP3 audio playback and Internet functionality in one box, although the main aspect was its open-source gaming component, which allowed anyone to get the free development kit and create games for Indrema. These games were to be distributed online and via retail.
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#1 by "PHroot"
2001-04-11 15:16:08
phroot@ntlworld.com
Boo fucking Hoo
#2 by "deadlock"
2001-04-11 15:18:29
deadlock@eircom.net
I concur with PHroot. It was a nice idea but I could never really see it working.

deadlock
#3 by "Flamethrower"
2001-04-11 15:26:54
patch@evilemail.com http://www.portalofevil.com
Ality? Ality again? Is that re-ality?
#4 by "PHroot"
2001-04-11 15:32:41
phroot@ntlworld.com
Indrema was another promising console project.
Between the PS2, the XBox, the Dreamcast, the new Nintendo thing, and this was there really any room for a another console?
#5 by "Gabe"
2001-04-11 15:35:28
gakruger@hotmail.com http://www.refracted.com
Indrema was doomed from the start. I think it was a case of Linux-thinking clouding people's judgement. One of the largest attractions to console development is a uniform, stable platform and Indrema was designed to be hugely flexible, and that included being able to upgrade the video and processor.

-- Gabe
#6 by "circle"
2001-04-11 15:37:11
circle@bellsouth.net
...Linux as its operating system...

...MP3 audio playback and Internet functionality in one box...

...free development kit...


All in one box?  Finally!  Oh, wait...I already have a PC.
#7 by "deadlock"
2001-04-11 15:38:25
deadlock@eircom.net
#5 "Gabe" wrote...
One of the largest attractions to console development is a uniform, stable platform and Indrema was designed to be hugely flexible, and that included being able to upgrade the video and processor.

In what way could you upgrade the video and processor ? Are we talking more RAM here, or actually being able to buy a Geforce 3 off the shelf ? Or, in the case of the processor, more cache or a brand new P4 or M68010 or whatever ?

And Flamethrower: huh ?

deadlock
#8 by "Gabe"
2001-04-11 15:47:44
gakruger@hotmail.com http://www.refracted.com
#7 "deadlock" wrote...
In what way could you upgrade the video and processor ? Are we talking more RAM here, or actually being able to buy a Geforce 3 off the shelf ? Or, in the case of the processor, more cache or a brand new P4 or M68010 or whatever ?


According to their website it had an upgradeable GPU slide bay. They were planning on providing compatible video card upgrades. I had read that they were hoping to have ATI and NVIDIA parts available. The site doesn't mention the CPU being upgradeable, but I thought I had read that in NextGen's preview of the console a couple of months ago. It also had different sized hard drive options. Basically it was a custom designed Linux box with a variety of options. Not the ideal target for a developer.
 
-- Gabe
#9 by "Scott Miller"
2001-04-11 16:03:07
scottm@3drealms.com www.3drealms.com
>>> Indrema was another promising console project

It was never promising.  No one ever cared about it--except maybe a few Linux users.

Fact:  Markets only support two products in a specific catagory.  There was no room for this console, regardless if it was superior or not.  The greatest myth in marketing is the better mousetrap wins.

(The Xbox faces the same challenge and inevitable outcome against PS2 and GameCube.  It won't matter that the Xbox might be superior or have the most marketing dollars behind it.  People who think those things will make the Xbox the leader simply do not understand marketing and consumer behavior.)


Scott
#10 by "Lumberjack"
2001-04-11 16:08:23
joek@pckconsult.com
So Scott, are you predicting an Xbox flop?
#11 by "phreakin"
2001-04-11 16:18:06
phreakin@penguinpowered.com
It would have been successfull with the Linux people just so they could be ultra 1337 by using a Linux console. It was strictly a novelty console. Regardless of what Linux users say, and I am one, Linux is not stable enough for something like that. Hell, someone tell me a week or so when they haven't had a core dump or X crashed.
#12 by "szcx"
2001-04-11 16:25:22
szcx@bersirc.com http://www.leslienassar.com/
Tux Racer was listed as one of the four launch titles.  Sweet fucking christ.  Linux investors need to take off the rose colored glasses.
#13 by "Bracket"
2001-04-11 16:54:13
thebracket@yahoo.com http:/www.tsghelp.com/
Indrema was doomed from the start because of the only thing that matters in the console world: games. No major developers were going to sign up for a product that didn't look like it had the backing to succeed - and hence, large numbers of people wouldn't buy the console because of it. That said, it's worth thinking about the Linux crowd in general - their aversion to buying software is slowly killing off the "Linux revolution." A Linux-based console wouldn't guarantee Linux-user sales for that reason. A few game-developer-wannabe types would buy it. MAME for Indrema might have brought a few users over... but the entire market probably already has a PC, and didn't really need a second one.

That's the one good thing about economic downturns - the more stupid uses for venture capital die off!

#11 Phreakin wrote:
Hell, someone tell me a week or so when they haven't had a core dump or X crashed.
.

This week (so far), last week, week before that, rinse and repeat back to November. Then again, it IS a miracle that an OS in which 9 can equal 10 (there's a famous demonstration of a C program in which 10=10 on FreeBSD, Solaris, NT/2000, etc. - but the same code produces 9=10 on all of the current Linux distributions) can be stable. :-p That said, our Linux box isn't doing much - running snort, traffic shaping and some packet logging. Whenever we attempt to use Linux for something more demanding, I'd have to agree with you - core dump, seg fault, etc. All our FreeBSD boxes have uptime exactly equal to the time since the last major kernel upgrade.
#14 by "Narcopolo"
2001-04-11 16:55:10
It really wasn't a console for all the hype, but a set top box that could play games.  It's greatest attributes were it's Tivo like abilities, without having to pay a monthly Tivo service.  

The upgradeable game parts were just gravy.  Really, it wouldn't have been much more difficult to support than a baseline PC.  You would know all the components available, and you could set your specs accordingly.

The truth is though, that they could not compete in the set top box space either, much less the console one.  Set tops are the razors that companies give away to get you to buy their razor blades, or services.

As far as Linux being the underlying OS goes, definitely an excellent idea.  Not very important in the end, but stable and open.  That free content would become available, hopefully due to the network like effect of their open SDK, was, as I said before gravy.  Or more accurately, speculation.

I'd have liked to have one.
#15 by "Narcopolo"
2001-04-11 17:02:24
#13 Bracket-
That said, it's worth thinking about the Linux crowd in general - their aversion to buying software is slowly killing off the "Linux revolution." A Linux-based console wouldn't guarantee Linux-user sales for that reason. A few game-developer-wannabe types would buy it. MAME for Indrema might have brought a few users over... but the entire market probably already has a PC, and didn't really need a second one.


If Indrema thought this, they wouldn't have proposed it in the first place.  It's certainly an inaccurate appraisal of how they planned to make money in the first place.  Linux users do buy console games, they also can provide free content to make the platform more attractive.  Indrema was hoping to leverage this to break out to the mainstream.  Without mainstream support, of course they wouldn't make it.

Saying this is a Linux thing, as in why the product didn't come to market, is not reasonable.  Linux was their chief technical and business advantage.  Otherwise it was an XBox with Tivo.  Sounds great, huh?  Even better with a (for free games) open platform.
#16 by "^mortis^"
2001-04-11 17:27:23
mortis@goddamnindependent.com http://www.goddamnindependent.com
Hate to get off topic so EARLY in the game, but The Pope is giving of too much electromagnetic emmission.  I've heard of spreading the 'word', but Leukemia, too?!
Ah well...'Physician Heal Thyself'. ;)

^M^
#17 by "BobJustBob"
2001-04-11 17:47:26
kevinakabob@mindspring.com
#9 "Scott Miller" wrote...
Fact: Markets only support two products in a specific catagory.


Um, no. Just because there are a few well known examples of this (coincedental) phenomenon, it hardly makes it a fact. What about N64 and DC and PSX? (for just one counterexample)
#18 by "Diseased"
2001-04-11 17:57:56
What about N64 and DC and PSX?


It could be argued that the DC isn't exactly being "supported" by the current market.  Mostly using the fact that it's not being made any more.

For the record though, I don't necessarily agree with Scott either.

So Scott, are you predicting an Xbox flop?


He all but said it outright...
#19 by "JMCDaveL"
2001-04-11 18:46:59
jmcdavel@mailandnews.com
Here's a free tip to future console hardware developers: Slashdot might crash your website, but they won't sell your box.

--jmc
~TUX RAZER IS BEST I LIKES ANYTHINGS WITH A PENGIN IN IT!! DIE MICOSOFT! LUNIX FOREVER!~
#20 by "grubin8r"
2001-04-11 19:12:50
particleman78@hotmail.com
This can be directly attributed to Indrema's failure to secure exclusive distribution rights to "Dance Dance Karnov."
#21 by "DanM"
2001-04-11 19:24:38
I am kind of dissapointed. Tivo, which is based on linux, is finding it's niche. This was the next logical extension of the "TV entertainment system".
#22 by "deadlock"
2001-04-11 19:41:55
deadlock@eircom.net
#15 "Narcopolo"
Linux users do buy console games, they also can provide free content to make the platform more attractive.

Woohoo, xBill on a console.

deadlock
#23 by "Warren Marshall"
2001-04-11 19:44:57
warren@epicgames.com epicboy.flipcode.com
Gabe (#5):
Indrema was designed to be hugely flexible, and that included being able to upgrade the video and processor.

Yeah, that's suicide for a console.  The main attraction of consoles for developers is that the environment is 100% stable.

deadlock (#7):
In what way could you upgrade the video and processor ? Are we talking more RAM here, or actually being able to buy a Geforce 3 off the shelf ? Or, in the case of the processor, more cache or a brand new P4 or M68010 or whatever ?

Whatever it was, it doesn't matter.  If something can change, you've just introduced a reason why your game might not work on someone's machine.

phreakin (#11):
Hell, someone tell me a week or so when they haven't had a core dump or X crashed.

I thought Linux never crashed and was 100% stable?  That's what Linux users have always told me when they bash Windows ...

#24 by "crash"
2001-04-11 19:48:48
crash@planetcrap.com
Scott Miller, 9:

Fact: Markets only support two products in a specific catagory.


Ford, Chevy, Chrysler.

Compaq, Dell, Gateway.

Half-Life, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament.

Age of Empires, Command & Conquer, Starcraft.

Asheron's Call, Everquest, Ultima Online.

McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's.

fact?

or, to quote the captain in 48 Hours: "Just 'cause you say it with conviction, it don't mean shit ta me."

kthx pls drive through
#25 by "Whisp"
2001-04-11 19:50:17
#9 "Scott Miller" wrote...
Fact: Markets only support two products in a specific catagory. There was no room for this console, regardless if it was superior or not. The greatest myth in marketing is the better mousetrap wins.


HAHAHAHAHAH!!!
That's why there are only two companies making consumer vehicles.  Oh wait, there's more than two?  Oh well, you know that there are only two types of vehicles available - cars and trucks.  What?  There's many different varieties of cars and trucks?  Well, they must all be very distinct, with only one or two similar cars.  No, again?  There are actually hundreds of very similar vehicles made by different companies?  And some of the companies actually sell the same basic vehicle as three distinct models?  Wow, I guess that it isn't a fact that markets only support two products in a specific category.  

-Whisp
#26 by "deadlock"
2001-04-11 19:52:32
deadlock@eircom.net
#23 "Warren Marshall"
Whatever it was, it doesn't matter. If something can change, you've just introduced a reason why your game might not work on someone's machine.

Yeah, that's what i thought as well.
#23 "Warren Marshall"
I thought Linux never crashed and was 100% stable? That's what Linux users have always told me when they bash Windows ...

Linux is 100% stable if you leave it in a corner and run the odd ping test on it. Otherwise it's only marginally less likely than Windows to fall over. Windows 95 that is - Windows 2000, which I use exclusively now, is beautiful. I've never had it crash. If I didn't have to reboot after installing drivers etc., it'd be perfect.

This discussion is pointless anyway; Linux fanboys are far too mature to play games.

deadlock
#27 by "shaithis"
2001-04-11 20:04:54
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
<b>crash</b>

couldn't have put it better myself. =)

Except to add that, under Scott's blanket statement, nothing in the market would *ever* change. As soon as two products established themselves, that'd be it. They'd be dominant forever.

Which is obviously a crock of shit.

As far as the Indrema goes, I can't say I'm surprised. But then, I sort of think the whole Unix, open-source movement is a big, starry-eyed dreamworld. It doesn't fit in with the way the world has evolved to work (ie: It's not profit-driven). A shame, since Unix is a very fast, powerful, and stable server environment (I still think Win2k is the best client OS out there tho).

-shai
#28 by "shaithis"
2001-04-11 20:05:35
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
dammit mr0n.

Why brackets? All of us who write reams of html code for a living get thrown off. =)

-shai
#29 by "DanM"
2001-04-11 20:07:17
Warren Marshall muttered....

I thought Linux never crashed and was 100% stable? That's what Linux users have always told me when they bash Windows ...

It is.An application crashing i.e. X or netscape, does not bring down the OS. You can restart or debug that applcation to your heart's content and it will not affect the OS.

It's kind of weird that a developer like yourself does not even recognize the merit of open source standards and software. Without them where would C, C++, PHP, TCP/IP, DNS, etc, etc..... come from.
You might not like the concept or it's people but recognize it's accomplishments.

Remember they are the ones that put the @ in warren@epicgames.com
#30 by "Warren Marshall"
2001-04-11 20:13:25
warren@epicgames.com epicboy.flipcode.com
deadlock (#26):
Linux is 100% stable if you leave it in a corner and run the odd ping test on it. Otherwise it's only marginally less likely than Windows to fall over. Windows 95 that is - Windows 2000, which I use exclusively now, is beautiful. I've never had it crash. If I didn't have to reboot after installing drivers etc., it'd be perfect.

Yeah, I agree.  Win2K has been nothing but beautiful for me.

This discussion is pointless anyway; Linux fanboys are far too mature to play games.

Why is the penguin's piss black?

DanM (#29):
Remember they are the ones that put the @ in warren@epicgames.com

The people many years ago who created 'nix and it's various flavors did, not the current crop.
#31 by "Scott Miller"
2001-04-11 20:17:04
scottm@3drealms.com www.3drealms.com
I won't bother pointing out the flaws in the several examples people put forth to try to disclaim that markets only support two brands in a particular category, instead I'll just refer anyone who's interested to two of the many books on the subject:  The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing and Marketing Myths that are Killing Business.

As for the Xbox, I'm not necessarily saying it will be a "flop," just that it won't be one of the two leaders--it'll be in a sad third place, and third-place consoles do not survive, they lose money.  For example, in the soft drink category, there are only two leaders, Coke and Pepsi, and every single other soda is an also-ran that at most has only a very small percentage of the total market (Coke and Pepsi add up to over 90% between them).  The Dreamcast represents the kind of failure that the Xbox will be, though Microsoft, to save face, will likely keep pumping money into it drawing out Xbox's death for a year or two longer.  It even took Sega two back-to-back console failures themselves to finally throw in the towel (Saturn and DC).

Here's one of the key reasons the Xbox will fail:

http://www.fatbabies.com/wc.dll?poe~showforummsg~GENERALIN~138653~FATBABIESX

This is exactly the image that Microsoft must overcome, but will not be able to if they allow even a 30% crossover of PC and Xbox games--and more likely that crossover will be 80% plus.  There's no way around it, the Xbox is a Portbox, and that, among other things, will spell its eventual death.  What top developer, in their right mind, will develop a game for the Xbox and not also have a PC version, which is nearly a free port.  What top developer will give up the huge and well established PC market?  Certainly not us--we're not complete fucking idiots.  And I don't expect any other top developer will just toss away all those free PC sells, too.  Thus, the Xbox equals the PC, and those with a PC will not bother buying an Xbox, especially since it won't be long before the PC is superior and has far greater utility.

On the other hand, people *will* buy the PS2 and GameCube because they both will have outstanding, compelling exclusive content and brands -- and far more than any other reason, that's the reason consoles succeed.  Xbox, from what I've seen so far (and I even have some inside info) does not have top-level compelling exclusive content yet.  Nothing that's so great it will sell 100,000's of systems.  And it probably never will unless Microsoft itself produces it, and doesn't allow it to appear on the PC.

Scott
#32 by "Scott Miller"
2001-04-11 20:18:56
scottm@3drealms.com www.3drealms.com
Here's that link again...

http://www.fatbabies.com/wc.dll?poe~showforummsg~GENERALIN~138653~FATBABIESX
#33 by "szcx"
2001-04-11 20:20:24
szcx@bersirc.com http://www.leslienassar.com/
Why is the penguin's piss black?

The Linux community couldn't agree on a color, hence the alternating black and yellow.
#34 by "crash"
2001-04-11 20:23:01
crash@planetcrap.com
shaithis, 28:

first off, thanks. :)


Why brackets? All of us who write reams of html code for a living get thrown off. =)

um. i'm a web monkey now, and i spend ~80% of my day ass-deep in raw code. (homesite 0wnZ j00.) but, y'know, PC does have both instructions below the post window as well as a preview button.

jeez... need Morn to hold your hand as you type, too? :-p

Scott:

put the thing in [ url ] tags and it'll work without truncating. this new ver of PC truncates stuff that will break the table. :)
#35 by "crash"
2001-04-11 20:26:04
crash@planetcrap.com
ahh, n/m.. the source has it, but the table don't display it. so, for anyone that's interested:

here's that fatbabies link.
#36 by "deadlock"
2001-04-11 20:26:32
deadlock@eircom.net
#31 "Scott Miller"
I won't bother pointing out the flaws in the several examples people put forth to try to disclaim that markets only support two brands in a particular category

I'm not being smart Scott, but please do point out the flaws in the examples that were put forth. They seem fairly reasonable to me, though I may be an idiot.

deadlock
#37 by "crash"
2001-04-11 20:30:49
crash@planetcrap.com
and oh, yeah, some bonus flava:

The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing

and

Marketing Myths That Are Killing Business

URL Tags Are Your Friends. Feel Free To Use More Of Them.

because here, of all places, you know we're gonna ask for 'em.

:-p
#38 by "Erik"
2001-04-11 20:42:19
For example, in the soft drink category, there are only two leaders, Coke and Pepsi, and every single other soda is an also-ran that at most has only a very small percentage of the total market (Coke and Pepsi add up to over 90% between them).


I spent eight years working in direct marketing, and specifically working with beverage marketing data, and this is simply not true.  Just doing a quick search, I was able to locate some fact and figures here:

http://www.beverage-digest.com/editorial/000218s.html

This is 1999 data, but it should be close enough for our purposes.  It shows that Coca-Cola and Pepsi - as corporate entities - comprise only 75% of the total market, with the specific Coke and Pepsi brands totalling about 50%.  Some of the other popular brands (such as Mt. Dew and Sprite) are owned by the Coca-Cola or Pepsi corporations. But that's simply a quirk of ownership, as they are most certainly separate brands in the buying public's mind.
#39 by "Erik"
2001-04-11 20:43:43
Whoops
#40 by "Dethstryk"
2001-04-11 20:44:06
jemartin@tcainternet.com
deadlock (#36):
I'm not being smart Scott, but please do point out the flaws in the examples that were put forth. They seem fairly reasonable to me, though I may be an idiot.

Well, I'm not Scott.. but I think he means that there will be two dominant brands, and then all of the sub-brands. From what I saw of the examples, I could always see the two most dominant, and then ones that were less popular. The two most dominant will last the longer.

Hey, I think I know what I'm talking about anyway. :)


--
Dethstryk
#41 by "Morn"
2001-04-11 21:05:30
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Test
#42 by "Morn"
2001-04-11 21:17:05
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Just in case some of you are a bit confused now -- I just moved PC to the new server and updated the DNS entries for *.planetcrap.com. Your ISP's DNS cache may take a couple of hours to update, but until then the old server will forward you to the new one, which is also reachable via planetcrap.mans.de. As soon as your ISP's DNS picks up the new IP for www.planetcrap.com, you will reach the new server directly.

Let's hope everything will work out as planned. (It usually doesn't. :b)

- Morn
#43 by "Narcopolo"
2001-04-11 21:42:40
Morn,

The move seems to have knocked Crapspy for a loop.  I just sent a bug report to Craig, I should have checked here first.
#44 by "Morn"
2001-04-11 21:45:53
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Narcopolo: yes, because CrapSpy accesses www.planetcrap.com, which won't resolve to the new IP until your ISP's DNS cache picks up the new information. Might take a couple of hours, but then CrapSpy will start working again automagically.

- Morn
#45 by "Narcopolo"
2001-04-11 21:50:45
Bye the bye, while I'm here, Warren Marshall now has a hosted web page at flipcode if anyone is curious.  I figure he isn't going to pimp his page here, but I thought some of you might be interested.  It's at epicboy.flipcode.com.  So give it a gander and come back here and mock him.
#46 by "Buccaneer"
2001-04-11 21:56:15
buccaneer@planetcrap.com http://www.konsumsklave.de
Narcopolo in #45:
Bye the bye, while I'm here, Warren Marshall now has a hosted web page at flipcode if anyone is curious. I figure he isn't going to pimp his page here, but I thought some of you might be interested. It's at epicboy.flipcode.com. So give it a gander and come back here and mock him.

He uses that page as his homepage on PC. - Pimpage is always good especially if it is a nice site like that one.
#47 by "Jason"
2001-04-11 21:58:21
jason@bluesnews.com http://www.bluesnews.com/
A few comments:

1) I never once thought for half a second that the Indrema would be a successful venture. Hell, I had higher hopes for NUON.

2) It wasn't a good idea in the first place, because their entire business model hinged on their decision to give everything away and make money off hardware sales. How silly was that? Okay, they've got TiVO style support...but it's free! They've got an SDK for developers, but it's free! Hear me when I say this for the umpteenth time: no console can survive off of initial hardware sales. It's all in the licensing royalties and peripheral sales. Silly, silly linux people.

3) It's been pointed out already, but being able to upgrade the processor or video card is a really stupid idea for a console. You'd think they'd never heard of the 32x.

...and on a different subject...I'm pretty convinced at this point that the Xbox will ultimately fail, or at least never reach the same consumer level as the GameCube or PS2. I know I'm not buying one at launch, and I buy *everything*.

Of course, if I don't have one already, I'll get one when that new Panzer Dragoon game comes out, assuming it's an Xbox exclusive.

-jason
#48 by "JMCDaveL"
2001-04-11 22:51:17
jmcdavel@mailandnews.com
So Scott, with only two dominant products, that being Unreal and Quake, why are you making Duke 4?

--jmc
#49 by "Whisp"
2001-04-11 23:09:43
Scott Miller in #31
I won't bother pointing out the flaws in the several examples people put forth to try to disclaim that markets only support two brands in a particular category, instead I'll just refer anyone who's interested to two of the many books on the subject: The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing and Marketing Myths that are Killing Business.
  

My interpretation of this response? Two things:
1) I can't disprove your arguments, therefore I'm going to claim you made a mistake too obvious to an intelligent reader to bother pointing out to people like you.
2) I read it in a book, so it must be true!

Here's one of the key reasons the Xbox will fail:

http://www.fatbabies.com/wc.dll?po...ESX

So you are claiming that a message board post is going to be the downfall of the Xbox?  ;-)

This is exactly the image that Microsoft must overcome, but will not be able to if they allow even a 30% crossover of PC and Xbox games--and more likely that crossover will be 80% plus. There's no way around it, the Xbox is a Portbox, and that, among other things, will spell its eventual death. What top developer, in their right mind, will develop a game for the Xbox and not also have a PC version, which is nearly a free port. What top developer will give up the huge and well established PC market? Certainly not us--we're not complete fucking idiots. And I don't expect any other top developer will just toss away all those free PC sells, too. Thus, the Xbox equals the PC, and those with a PC will not bother buying an Xbox, especially since it won't be long before the PC is superior and has far greater utility.


You make some good points, but I'm not sure that the Xbox's future is quite as bleak as you make out.  We won't know until it's out, but the key will be how software runs on one platform vs another.  If the Xbox can match (or maybe even exceed?) the performance of high end PC systems at launch, it should be several years before the average PC catches up.  With lower overhead and fixed system requirements developers can get program closer to the edge of the system specs, instead of for some "average buyer", right?  Sure, the latest 37 GHz Pentium IX, with a super-ultra GeForce 12 will almost certainly surpass it, but the average system then will probably only be matching the original Xbox performance by then.  Not everyone buys a new computer every 6 months, or even every 2 years.  I'd guess most people never do incremental upgrades either - especially not those in the typical console market.

-Whisp
#50 by "Scott Miller"
2001-04-11 23:15:14
scottm@3drealms.com www.3drealms.com
>>> My interpretation of this response? Two things:
1) I can't disprove your arguments, therefore I'm going to claim you made a mistake too obvious to an intelligent reader to bother pointing out to people like you.
2) I read it in a book, so it must be true! <<<

Actually, around an hour ago I did respond with a rather long message, plus anohter message talking about the Coke and Pepsi thing and how I was referring to the companies themselve, blah, blah, blah, but those message were never posted here -- not sure where they went!  But sure ain't gonna bother recreating them!  ;-)

Scott
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