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T O P I C
Behind the eFront
March 9th 2001, 11:53 CET by Morn

Ouch! <a href="http://www.efront.com/about.shtml">eFront Media, Inc.</a>, the guys hosting and marketing such fine sites as <a href="http://www.somethingawful.com">Something Awful</a> and <a href="http://www.betanews.com">BetaNews</a>, should be worried about either their network security (<a href="http://www.sharesniffer.com">ShareSniffer</a> anyone? Coming to a PC thread near you soon!) or staff loyalty. Either way, they're probably not too happy about the fact that apparently everyone is having a good laugh (or not) reading <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ab5/efront/">these leaked (?) logs</a> of ICQ conversations between three eFront bigwigs (Sam Jain, CEO; Will Bryant and Jonathan Roy of Acquisitions).

I'm not going to quote them here, but I recommend reading through them (while they're still up -- I already feel the ground shaking because of the impending lawyer stampede). It's a lot of material, but some parts of it are simply wonderfully entertaining (or rather worrying). <a href="http://www.lumthemad.net/news/1798.php">Lum the Mad</a>, who scooped us all with this, has some highlights (and already some healthy discussion going on). Thanks everyone who sent this in, too.
C O M M E N T S
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#1 by "Apache"
2001-03-09 11:55:23
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
Wow, talk about shady stuff (allegedly).
#2 by "Morn"
2001-03-09 11:59:40
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
A couple of random thoughts:

I really want to know how those logs were leaked. I can't imagine someone just "stole" them. What the heck happened?

Are there any companies out there where the people in charge are not complete m0m0s?

I wonder what eFront hosted sites webmasters think about this.

- Morn
#3 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2001-03-09 12:06:34
tc10@spam-b-gawrne.st-andrews.ac.uk http://www.mornography.com/tomc/
There's far too much business shenanigannery in this scene of late. I'm steering well clear of this.
#4 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2001-03-09 12:08:43
tc10@spam-b-gawrne.st-andrews.ac.uk http://www.mornography.com/tomc/
mr0n:
Are there any companies out there where the people in charge are not complete m0m0s?

Um...
Uh...
*thinks harder, space-brain recoils in horror*
Nope. Definitely not.
#5 by "Milamber"
2001-03-09 12:19:24
milamber@amoeba.com.au http://www.wagz.net
Wow, that's some pretty tasty stuff. The comments about Penny Arcade are fairly spicy, I'd love to quote bits and pieces in here, but something tells me that would be stupid. I'd also like to know how the fuck people managed to get their hands on this, and just how many laws they're breaking by posting it.
#6 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 12:31:17
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
bryant     11/12/20 12:22 pm re:  SomethingAwful.com
                                  
                                  Lowtax (ICQ#19629905) Wrote:
                                  My site's down *again*


LOL!!!!!!!

Joker.
#7 by "Foogla"
2001-03-09 12:38:35
Foogla@gmx.de
Lowtax has some good (and not angry at all :D ) comments in the LtM thread about the topic.
#8 by "Evi|ivE"
2001-03-09 12:41:02
Wow, after reading all of those transcripts I am a bit shocked.  Those guys are slimey, greedy bastards.  

I'll bet a million dollars it was those "kids", they have so much wonderful things to say about, that leaked this stuff.  

Quite a bomb-shell.
#9 by "Steve Gibson"
2001-03-09 12:43:03
smiles@shugashack.com http://www.shacknews.com/
I actually talked with these guys a while back and decided pretty quickly they were slime balls. I did get them to send me a contract that I could laugh at though.

They were offering just a flat # of shares in a company with no indication of the total # of shares the company would be offering. For further amusement I even talked to the CEO on the phone and he must have said "vertical marketplace" to me 20 times in the span of 10 minutes.

Then I asked him share dilution and a few really simple stock questions. They danced for a few days offering nothing and then gave up.

I'm familiar with the guys in those logs, I dont have any doubt that it is real.
#10 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 12:48:18
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
Holy shit those logs rock!!!!

Joker.
#11 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 12:52:27
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
sam        14/01/20 6:20 am  if we get SA on our side, then PA ranting will
                                  seem like its their fault

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Joker.
#12 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 13:33:10
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
sam        20/02/20 7:44 am  iBLAMEj00: (3:44 PM) But he couldn't accept
                                  not getting paid for back months.
                                  

sam        20/02/20 7:44 am  iBLAMEj00: (3:44 PM) And then he mumbled
                                  something about having to sell his Lexus.
                                  
LOL!!!

Joker.
#13 by "Darkseid"
2001-03-09 13:35:54
Darkseid@captured.com www.captured.com/boomstick
Lets just say there are very easy ways to get @ icq history files........ (some of which you can do even if the machine isnt trojan compromised)

also sounds very much like these guys are marketroids and have zippity clue about the.. shall we say .. technical aspects, can you say Sniffit or BackOrifice?


Whenever 'commercialisation' hits a scene, the scene gets a huge amount of popularity then gets fucked over by the money men.... parallels with any recent fad anyone ... eg snowboarding scene...


Ds
#14 by "Flamethrower"
2001-03-09 14:09:00
patch@evilemail.com http://www.oldmanmurray.com
New IQC log:

#1 - we've just been raped all over the internet.

#2 - don't worry, i'm searching JuniorLawer.net for a C&D that'll cover everyone on the planet.
#15 by "deadlock"
2001-03-09 15:17:48
deadlock@eircom.net
I notice the Quote of the Nanosecond is back, Morn. I was gonna suggest putting it in the pirate's speech bubble, how about just makin him dance when you put the mouse over him ? Pleeeaaaase ? And when're you gonna add a link to let us go from viewing only the new comments to viewing all comment la PC3 ?

deadlock
#16 by "brennan"
2001-03-09 15:25:45
scott.gs@home.com
Shenanigannery?  There is just no goddamn way that's a word.

Aren't PA and SA still hosted by these guys?  Or did either/both of them walk?

-brennan
#17 by "Karl Palutke"
2001-03-09 15:35:59
karl@digitalsavagery.com
The logs just disappeared from Angelfire.  Anybody get copies . . . the first 3 are in my browser cache.
#18 by "Prfbrain"
2001-03-09 15:37:40
brain@arn.net
Doh, I only got to number 6 before they vanished.
#19 by "Anonymous"
2001-03-09 15:47:54
I really want to know how those logs were leaked. I can't imagine someone just "stole" them. What the heck happened?


If one of those tools just left his PC on and went out to lunch and didn't have it password protected, an irritated employee could have done it in a few minutes. How long does it take to cut and paste from a history log, save it to a file, and save it to a floppy? ICQ's handy that way. You don't need to search through someone's email to find pertinent messages. Just grab the history file.
#20 by "Martin"
2001-03-09 16:00:05
martin@theplace.nu
(OT) Morn: I think you need a top link or the entire menu at the end of the page with this design as well. 8)

-- Martin
#21 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 16:13:08
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
I've got all the logs, baby!

Joker
#22 by "Speed"
2001-03-09 16:30:55
speed@crew.fragland.net http://fragland.net
Joker : so what's keeping you from posting them ?

Speed
#23 by "Flamethrower"
2001-03-09 16:32:15
patch@evilemail.com http://www.oldmanmurray.com
Joker, yeah, post them all here, one per message. (-:
#24 by "Finn"
2001-03-09 16:41:01
There are plenty of tools for screwing around with ICQ, tapping in's the easy bit. Knowing when that tha hard part.
#25 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 16:57:49
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
--------------------------------------
     ICQ History Log For:    
             586491  bryant
 Started on Tue Mar 06 15:36:21 2001
--------------------------------------
sam        24/11/20 3:11 am  im looking at different sites toassignto acq
                                  ppl for ad sales.. which ones would u prefer
                                  (genre)

bryant     25/11/20 6:04 am  Sports and Gaming come to mind.  I'd say Mens
                                  General, Fashion and similar as well except I
                                  don't know if we have any.

sam        25/11/20 6:07 am  do you have any special sites that you'd like
                                  to pick you know you can do great on
                                  

sam        25/11/20 6:07 am  i think jon wants rpgamer and squaregamer :)

bryant     25/11/20 6:08 am  Heh.  Actually if I can keep out of gaming
                                  I'll be happy, but I suspect I can still
                                  leverage old contacts so I'm not looking to
                                  avoid it.  Let me look around the different
                                  channels this afternoon and I'll see if I can
                                  eyeball a few sites that have decent size and
                                  substance that I think I can work well.

sam        25/11/20 6:09 am  ok great

sam        27/11/20 12:39 pm any luck on the sites?

bryant     09/12/20 11:19 am Kevin Jenkins at MPOG isn't lazy.  He's put
                                  every campaign up on time or faster and has
                                  never once complained openly or not.  Yet he's
                                  extremely frustrated and angry right now.

sam        09/12/20 11:21 am well not every one.. but a majority refuse to
                                  coopreate

sam        09/12/20 11:22 am so what is he frustrated about

bryant     09/12/20 11:22 am We should directly and harshly penalize those
                                  that don't.  I don't think we need to reward
                                  the ones that do - but I think they should be
                                  treated well.

sam        09/12/20 11:23 am i dont think we treat them badly?

bryant     09/12/20 11:23 am The communication that's come down in the past
                                  week.  How it's been handled.  Nothing is
                                  concise or to the point.  I can forward his
                                  email if you like.

bryant     09/12/20 11:23 am Many of them do feel mistreated right now.  A
                                  lot feel like they're being openly threatened
                                  right now.

bryant     09/12/20 11:23 am I'm not on "their side" here.  Just telling
                                  you what we're running into down in the
                                  trenches on this.

sam        09/12/20 11:24 am sure..feedback is always good so we can let
                                  our WRC's have better diplomatic communication
                                  skills.

bryant     09/12/20 11:27 am Sent.  That email is mild and diplomatic
                                  compared to what we're getting today.  The
                                  main problems seem to be that they want
                                  directives to be straight and to the point.
                                  Not one of them has argued with me the merits
                                  of putting the campaign up - it's all been
                                  about the delivery.

sam        09/12/20 11:27 am thats funny

sam        09/12/20 11:28 am well, sure.. but 90% of the webmasters arent
                                  cooperating with direct and to the point
                                  directives

sam        09/12/20 11:28 am so i think g3 took this approach to create
                                  rapport with the webmasters

sam        09/12/20 11:28 am and build realtions

sam        09/12/20 11:28 am you cant please everyone.. i think he's trying
                                  to build a relationship and communication and
                                  rapport..
                                  
                                  

sam        09/12/20 11:29 am perhaps one solution is to divided the
                                  webmasters into 3 groups

bryant     09/12/20 11:29 am It seems to be doing the opposite.  I just had
                                  an hour long call with a webmaster who spent
                                  the time venting about his approach.

bryant     09/12/20 11:29 am You're right though, you can't make everyone
                                  happy.

sam        09/12/20 11:29 am 1. who like direct and to the point
                                  communication.
                                  

sam        09/12/20 11:29 am 2. who like to be "babied" w/ video, etc.

sam        09/12/20 11:29 am 3. who need to be threatened

bryant     09/12/20 11:29 am Heh.

sam        09/12/20 11:30 am i think he should make a list and treat them
                                  accordingly :) ill talk to him bout that

sam        09/12/20 11:30 am which webmaster was venting :)

bryant     09/12/20 11:30 am I'm sure you all have gone around and around
                                  over this.  I guess my approach would have to
                                  be short and sweet, then those that don't
                                  cooperate get the campaigns inserted by us and
                                  we fine them some good % for it.

sam        09/12/20 11:30 am personally, i wouldnt do the video stuff.. i
                                  think his stuff is hilarious.. but its getting
                                  their attention :)

sam        09/12/20 11:30 am yeah..thats the other approach we need to take
                                  also.. we talked about this yesetrday

sam        09/12/20 11:31 am have an in-house team do it w/ those who dont
                                  cooperate ..and delay their payment

sam        09/12/20 11:31 am until they do cooperate

bryant     09/12/20 11:31 am I don't think there's any downside there
                                  except the energy we have to espend to cover
                                  the slackers.  But noone can fault us for
                                  doing so and fining the ones that don't
                                  comply.  They all know what the climate is out
                                  there, and what we have to do to monetize.

bryant     09/12/20 11:32 am eXpend rather.
                                  

sam        09/12/20 11:32 am i read kevin's email..he does have a point..
                                  mass emails are bad.. i hate doing mass emails
                                  myself

bryant     09/12/20 11:32 am These campaigns are how they get paid.  They
                                  don't do their job and help roll out the
                                  campaign, they don't get paid, or at least
                                  don't get paid 100%.

bryant     09/12/20 11:35 am Anyway, all just food for thought.  We'll
                                  figure out what's the best way to do this.
                                  I'm in my 14th hour - so calling it a day.
                                  Couple RFPs out btw, nothing that will have us
                                  swimming in cash - but I'll let you know what
                                  kind of responses we get back.  Every little
                                  bit helps.

bryant     09/12/20 11:35 am Oh and Reviewboard has agreed to close.  I
                                  know you liked what you saw of them.

bryant     09/12/20 11:36 am BTW - last thought.  One thing brought up by
                                  another webmaster today was the notion of a
                                  webmaster congress of sorts where they have a
                                  unified body (and thus a representative) to
                                  relay concerns, their voice, etc.  How would
                                  you feel about that?

sam        09/12/20 11:37 am union! eww

bryant     09/12/20 11:37 am Heh.

sam        09/12/20 11:37 am i just fwd: that email to g3 and cc'd you guys

bryant     09/12/20 11:37 am Can see lots of pitfalls, might also be a way
                                  the webmasters police themselves and deal with
                                  slackers.  Don't know.

sam        09/12/20 11:38 am yeah, we always wanted an in-house webmasters
                                  advocate.. that was david woodruff at one
                                  point.. its not a bad idea

bryant     09/12/20 11:38 am It's easy in the Marines, the platoon takes
                                  care of the problem child and everything goes
                                  smoothly.  =)

sam        09/12/20 11:38 am heh.. maybe we need to setup a platoon and
                                  brigade per category or area?

sam        09/12/20 11:38 am we're alrready starting that.. asia
                                  webmasters, europe, usa gaming, usa general

sam        09/12/20 11:39 am maybe better to get one of their own to be the
                                  'rep'

sam        09/12/20 11:39 am for 5 to 10 sites at a time.. i dunno

sam        09/12/20 11:39 am but lets start by getting g3 going in the
                                  right direction first

bryant     09/12/20 11:39 am Maybe a little bit of both, I don't know.
                                  It's a concept though.  And might help them
                                  feel empowered.

bryant     09/12/20 11:39 am TOTALLY agree there.  =)

bryant     09/12/20 11:39 am I'm out.  Have a good weekend.  Will be around
                                  if anything comes up.

sam        09/12/20 11:39 am ok cya

bryant     09/12/20 11:49 am Amazing news on CNet lady btw.  

sam        09/12/20 11:50 am yeah thats great.. she needs all the info u
                                  guys were asking for though, and more..
                                  demographic surveys, target audience, etc.

sam        09/12/20 11:50 am of course, proof still has to be in the
                                  pudding.. im not too excitd until we see money
                                  flowing in the bank :)

bryant     09/12/20 11:51 am No, I'm the same way.  But that's definitely
                                  encouraging.  Let me talk to Jon about the ad
                                  bullets.  Maybe there's a way to streamline
                                  that.  I've been spending time recently
                                  looking at media kits of our competitors, so
                                  at least we have an idea of what is needed at
                                  the base level.

sam        09/12/20 11:52 am yeah.. we just need to concentrate on the
                                  online media kits too.. she doesnt even use
                                  offline media kits.  something nice online
                                  would be awesome.. of course, having our
                                  webguide and better navigation (dynamic) links
                                  on the inside efront part to let
                                  advertisers/ppl navigate efront would help
                                  tremendously.. we need more programming
                                  resources for that though..we're backed up:(

bryant     09/12/20 11:53 am Actually all the ones I've been eyeballing
                                  have been online.  I think that's more or less
                                  the standard these days.  

sam        09/12/20 11:58 am ive been talking to the maxpc sales guys.. and
                                  know their entire cycle, figures, etc. pretty
                                  much..
                                  for the number of sales ppl we have (4)..we're
                                  not doing that bad in total revenues per
                                  head.. we need to increase that to 10-15 sales
                                  ppl though
                                  aug: 160k, sept: 320k, oct: 260k, nov: 1.7mil
                                  aug: 3 ppl, sept: 4 ppl, oct: 4 ppl, nov: 4
                                  ppl
                                  
                                  we also have chris -- who is setting up local
                                  salespartnerships ($0 yet)
                                  and brad - who moved from dennis's biz dev
                                  group to sales recently..who isnt counted in
                                  the above

sam        09/12/20 11:59 am brad has a $35 cpm deal for 2 mil imps in the
                                  gaming channel for 70k..that was pitched in
                                  person today and they were enthusiastic.. he's
                                  saying he'll get it signed monday.. we'll see

bryant     09/12/20 12:00 pm Heh, well sure - now I feel like a punk with
                                  my little $15k RFPs here and there.  j/k

sam        09/12/20 12:01 pm everything helps.. heck, if after rampup you
                                  can pull in 50k/month consistenly.. thats
                                  great:)

sam        09/12/20 12:01 pm sometimes ppl forget to pay the bills..they
                                  try to go for homeruns.. ilike lot of smaller
                                  deals coming in too .. someone's gotta pay the
                                  light bill

bryant     09/12/20 12:03 pm No, I agree - was just joking.  I want to
                                  develop a relationship with EA, we do that
                                  even at a low level and it can turn into
                                  something that rolls at a higher.

sam        09/12/20 12:05 pm oh is this for EA? great.. i know mike murphy
                                  tried to do something w/ them for skinz and
                                  stuff in october but that didnt go through

bryant     09/12/20 12:07 pm Yeah.  Still have some good entrenched
                                  contacts over there.  We're going to try and
                                  start with a campaign for a Wes Craven (or was
                                  it Clive Barker) game called "Undying" and
                                  possibly "American McGee's Alice".  If we get
                                  those and it goes well, they're interested in
                                  rolling campaigns across their different
                                  departments, and are acutely interested in our
                                  capacity to serve their commericals via
                                  streaming FMV ads down the road.

sam        09/12/20 12:07 pm hey.. Rad is availalbe this weekend to work on
                                  the online media kit.. should we brainstorm
                                  and give him a spec and layout/etc?
                                  
                                  that would be awesome to get that done this
                                  weekend..because we have maxpc guys strting
                                  next week .. i can get him into the loop as
                                  well

bryant     09/12/20 12:08 pm Yeah.  I have a couple quick links I can shoot
                                  somewhere as at least a reference.

bryant     09/12/20 12:08 pm Obviously the sooner we get that up the easier
                                  life is on a lot of fronts.  Certainly
                                  especially Ms.CNet, but also on the grassroots
                                  pursuits as well.

bryant     11/12/20 12:22 pm re:  SomethingAwful.com
                                  
                                  Lowtax (ICQ#19629905) Wrote:
                                  My site's down *again*

sam        11/12/20 12:23 pm yeah matt is at globalcenter moving servers
                                  around i think

sam        17/12/20 9:20 am  hey Will.. what were the terms of the RB deal

sam        17/12/20 10:10 am Are you there? Need to talk

bryant     17/12/20 10:27 am Hey, just walked back in.  What's up?

bryant     17/12/20 10:28 am I can shoot you the last version of the RB
                                  contract if you like?

bryant     17/12/20 10:29 am Basic concept is $14k and a normal amount of
                                  stock.  No wacky clauses except he was still
                                  going to get his stock (based upon the
                                  existing vesting schedule) if we terminated
                                  him.

bryant     17/12/20 10:32 am Where we are with RB right now is his mom (a
                                  lawyer) wants to add some meat to the
                                  contract.  Just simply specify some things
                                  that are implied and meant, just not spelled
                                  out.   I warned Phil (the owner) about it all
                                  falling apart if new terms were introduced -
                                  so he's actually working on our behalf to a
                                  certain degree to reel his mom in.

sam        17/12/20 11:20 am hey Will are you there

bryant     17/12/20 11:47 am Sure am.

sam        17/12/20 11:49 am Been talking to Roy.  I'm sure he's filled you
                                  in on the direction we need to head down for
                                  the near term.  The ad market's much tighter..
                                  not much low hanging fruits out there and we
                                  really have to work for our keep now :) Which
                                  means more resources towards the area and
                                  scaling back on untargeted RON acqs for
                                  pageview growth somewhat until we can fully
                                  monetize our assets.

bryant     17/12/20 11:50 am Yeah, we've been talking about that.
                                  Completely agree there.

bryant     17/12/20 11:50 am Any acqs right now should probably be
                                  something like breastfeeding.com and not
                                  anycrapgames.com, etc.  I'm actually pretty
                                  excited to hear we can support regional ad
                                  sales.  Going to see if I can work Jax and
                                  Columbus.

sam        17/12/20 11:51 am yup.. we have chris higgins doing local sales
                                  too (chrish@efront.com)

bryant     17/12/20 11:51 am Or perhaps OH/FL - we'll see how that plays
                                  out.

bryant     17/12/20 11:51 am Great, I'll touch base with him Monday.

sam        17/12/20 11:52 am That means we have to get more exp. sales ppl
                                  (we're starting to do that here) and cut back
                                  on other resources.  I bounced this off of roy
                                  already and want to bounce this off of you.
                                  Basically, streamlining our ops in the office.
                                   We let jason go few weeks ago; basically he
                                  was unprodcutive.  Brad pulled in a 60k sale
                                  (30 cpm).. so he's starting to kick up.  

sam        17/12/20 11:54 am On your side, I wanted to talk about sharon;
                                  it might be in her and our best interest to
                                  part because of our immediate needs.  I know
                                  she tried very hard and was dedicated on the
                                  acq. side.  I'd like to get your thoughts on
                                  this proposal:  
                                  * Let her know about our direction
                                  * Pay her through the end of the year.
                                  * Vest her 5000 options immediately (and waive
                                  the excercise clause of 30 days to 1 year or
                                  something).

bryant     17/12/20 11:55 am I think that's both reasonable and fair.
                                  Certainly it addresses our needs, and between
                                  us I see that as an approprite opportunity to
                                  streamline.

sam        17/12/20 11:55 am Trying to allocate more funds on the sales
                                  side and with you doing Sales and Roy helping
                                  out more on the traffic side, we also have
                                  Lloyd coming on board for tech sales and
                                  Monique as well (cnet)
#26 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 16:59:03
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
sam        17/12/20 11:56 am Since  you're her immediate supervisor there,
                                  would you like to talk to her or do you feel
                                  it would be better for me to do so?

bryant     17/12/20 11:56 am I think I would rather if that's okay with
                                  you.

sam        17/12/20 11:56 am That's fine; that's why I approached you
                                  first.  It's a touchy subject obviously and I
                                  want to make sure we do it right.

bryant     17/12/20 11:57 am Absolutely, agree 100%.  I think handled the
                                  right way she can see it as a positive.  I
                                  know what drives Sharon, and she may well come
                                  out of this without any negative feelings.

bryant     17/12/20 11:58 am It's never a real positive - but variables
                                  allow it to be as non-negative as possible.
                                  =)

sam        17/12/20 11:58 am Right, and we'll do whatever we need on our
                                  side.  including the option stuff -- she
                                  deserves it.

bryant     17/12/20 11:58 am I'll talk to her this weekend.

bryant     17/12/20 11:58 am Is it safe to assume we (Jon, myself, Brian)
                                  should continue to pursue clear revenue
                                  opoprtunity acquisitions?

sam        17/12/20 11:58 am okay thanks. let me know and i'll let mike
                                  frue get the paperwork in writing (with the
                                  options, etc.) so she's secure.

sam        17/12/20 11:58 am yes

bryant     17/12/20 11:59 am OK, I'll make that secondary to ads right now.
                                   Have a few leads, going to put some of the
                                  quality ROI types in a holding pattern.

sam        17/12/20 11:59 am our big push is revenues now.. i'd like to
                                  spit out 20% of our revenues and put it in the
                                  bank as a cushion

bryant     17/12/20 11:59 am That may or may not include RB, when I get
                                  their contract I'll talk to you and/or Jerry
                                  about it.

sam        17/12/20 11:59 am who knows how long this market will last

sam        17/12/20 12:00 pm okay. I think RB can get us alot of
                                  storerunner (ecomm) revenues, no?

sam        17/12/20 12:00 pm with every review essentially.. al ink..

bryant     17/12/20 12:00 pm It can't last like this forever.  I'm no
                                  analyst but I don't see how it can't start to
                                  strengthem in the new year.

bryant     17/12/20 12:00 pm Absolutely it will.

sam        17/12/20 12:00 pm do you know how many daily visitors he gets?

sam        17/12/20 12:00 pm thats a very good indication of conversino on
                                  the srunner links

bryant     17/12/20 12:01 pm uniques?  Not off the top of my head, but I'll
                                  find out.  He's an odd one.  22MM PVs 1/00,
                                  650k when I started talking to him.  3.5-4MM
                                  now, with a clause in the contract that he has
                                  to hit 7MM within 90 days.  At his current
                                  growth rate, he should more be around 10MM
                                  w/in 90.

sam        17/12/20 12:02 pm wow.. from 22mm to 3 mil huh.. what happened

bryant     17/12/20 12:02 pm Botched acqs process that lasted 5 months with
                                  a company overseas.  They just wanted his
                                  backend.

bryant     17/12/20 12:03 pm The upside there for us is that he's growing
                                  at an unprecedented rate, so we effectively
                                  get a 20MM site (if/when it returns to that)
                                  on a 7MM contract structure.

sam        17/12/20 12:03 pm ok..
                                  let's say we get $1 cpm.. that 7k
                                  and if we can get 7k on storerunner.. which is
                                  70,000 clicks a month.. which is 2000 a day

sam        17/12/20 12:04 pm do you think he can generate that? if so, or
                                  if we could get him to somehow do it

sam        17/12/20 12:04 pm then we can sign :)

sam        17/12/20 12:04 pm because storerunner for us is very short
                                  payment terms.. helps with cashflow alot

bryant     17/12/20 12:05 pm He is very easy to work with, which is a
                                  quality I look for in acqs targets these days
                                  to be honest.  I don't know what a common CTR
                                  is on Storerunner, but I don't think there's
                                  any question his would be amongst the higher
                                  CTRs.

sam        17/12/20 12:05 pm i know!! no more kids

sam        17/12/20 12:05 pm i think we all learned alot

bryant     17/12/20 12:06 pm Hell, we may be able to get him on board with
                                  SR even if he doesn't sign.  Don't know how
                                  that might work, maybe some sort of payment to
                                  him...  Just a "what if" contingency.

sam        17/12/20 12:06 pm good idea.. maybe even try to get it to him
                                  now.. 'test of his traffic' as an excuse or
                                  something

bryant     17/12/20 12:07 pm Yeah, even some of the non-kids are pretty
                                  confusing.  I try to keep them docile (the
                                  ones that vent towards me), but in a few
                                  particular cases it's increasingly difficult
                                  to understand that level of rage coming from
                                  someone who works about an hour a day for an
                                  above average (according to US gross
                                  standards) salary.

bryant     17/12/20 12:08 pm I'll talk to him on Monday.  He's actually
                                  anxious to get aboard with us, it's his
                                  partners (damn Carter administration lawyer)
                                  and his mother that are slowing us down.

sam        17/12/20 12:08 pm yeah i know.. well, guess what? im going
                                  through the webmaster sites, payments, etc.
                                  right now.. starting with the ones who arent
                                  cooperating, im kicking them out..

bryant     17/12/20 12:08 pm So SR now as opposed to later may well be
                                  feasible with him.

sam        17/12/20 12:08 pm that sounds good

sam        17/12/20 12:08 pm to start off the relationship.. so we can
                                  gauge the return too

bryant     17/12/20 12:09 pm I can't say anything but 'good' to that.  I
                                  look forward to hearing from some of them how
                                  much worse the grass is on the other side of
                                  the fence.



sam        17/12/20 12:09 pm if you have any leads on ones who arent
                                  cooperating or wahtever, let me know
                                  (webmasters/sites)

bryant     17/12/20 12:09 pm Particularly with the impending demise of the
                                  GameSPYs and UGOs.

sam        17/12/20 12:09 pm yeah

bryant     17/12/20 12:10 pm Will do.  The danger I guess here is confusing
                                  "angry and vocal" with "uncooperative".  Some
                                  are both, but a few are just one or the other.
                                   I'll sit down with Jo and Sharon this weekend
                                  and compare notes on the reactions we had to
                                  the SR rollout.

sam        17/12/20 12:11 pm yeah..true..  of course, we wont do anything
                                  to shoot ourselves in the foot.. evaluating
                                  them on a one by one basis
                                  
                                  like themeheaven has a 24x7 banner next to
                                  ours.. well u know his payment will be delayed

bryant     17/12/20 12:11 pm It goes without saying I think that anyone who
                                  still doesn't have the channelguide up by the
                                  1st is clearly uncooperative. =)

bryant     17/12/20 12:11 pm Heh, yeah - that can't fly.  Especially as we
                                  ramp up sales.

sam        17/12/20 12:12 pm well we're changing our coutning using the
                                  webguide now.. so it shoots them :)

sam        17/12/20 12:12 pm we'll be reasonable but firm :)

bryant     17/12/20 12:12 pm Yeah, I heard.  Came across more than a few
                                  frantically getting it up on every page.
                                  
                                  Noone can fault 'reasonable but firm'.

sam        17/12/20 12:13 pm heh

bryant     17/12/20 12:13 pm Anyway - I better get running here.  Meds are
                                  running out so starting to feel like hell.
                                  Good chatting with you.  I'll follow up with
                                  you and Mike after I talk to Sharon.

sam        17/12/20 12:14 pm still sick? geez:) ok..thanks..cya

bryant     17/12/20 12:15 pm Yeah, it's not getting much better.  Constant
                                  tests, and a 'spot' in one lung.  Probably
                                  nothing, but man - I better be getting
                                  normal/well again soon.  Just about sick of
                                  being cooped up in the house 24/7.  Then
                                  again, it does allow for a whole new level of
                                  focus on the work at hand.   =)

bryant     17/12/20 12:15 pm Later.

sam        18/12/20 12:32 am probably too late to change the terms on RB
                                  huh?

bryant     18/12/20 1:07 am  May not be.  Want to do it by a different
                                  scale?  Revs?

sam        18/12/20 1:07 am  just wondering.. maybe daily visitors

sam        27/12/20 9:54 am  hey how's it going

sam        27/12/20 12:57 pm iBLAMEj00 (ICQ#8906076) Wrote:
                                  But you pay webmasters by page views instead
                                  of unique visitors; it would be best if you
                                  did by unique visitors.
                                  
                                  [even tim agrees we should pay webmasters per
                                  unique users, not pageviews.  our sites get
                                  low ctr% and are too sticky -- bad for
                                  advertising (in general)]

sam        28/12/20 8:34 am  hey Will .. are you there

bryant     28/12/20 9:30 am  Am now - what's up?

sam        28/12/20 9:38 am  Hey .. just wanted to tell you that we'll be
                                  delaying our payroll as I mentioned before
                                  this week unfortunately :

bryant     28/12/20 9:38 am  np - how long?

sam        28/12/20 9:39 am  i would say 7 to  10 days at most.. About.com
                                  owes us 200k but it looks like they're going
                                  to play games with us.. speedyclick should be
                                  giving us 200k next week as well..

bryant     28/12/20 9:40 am  Cool - we can make things stretch that long
                                  I'm sure.  

bryant     28/12/20 9:44 am  Hey, Moviehit.com just called me.  We haven't
                                  moved them over yet (closed 3-4 weeks ago) and
                                  they lose their hosting tomorrow.  The ball
                                  was rolling with Nate to move them, but he's
                                  on vacation now.  So they're looking for us to
                                  pay their hosting bill so they don't go dead
                                  tomorrow.

bryant     28/12/20 9:45 am  (They're (moviehit) telling me Nate is on
                                  vacation) - don't know if that's true or not.

bryant     28/12/20 9:45 am  What should I tell them?

bryant     28/12/20 9:45 am  Obviously we're not excited about dropping
                                  $1540 on hosting for them if we're delaying
                                  payroll.

sam        28/12/20 9:46 am  nate is in Dc yeah

sam        28/12/20 9:46 am  why are they dropping their hosting

sam        28/12/20 9:47 am  can we tell them that it will be delayed until
                                  we have more serveres

sam        28/12/20 9:47 am  and we don't have our banners on their site
                                  yet do we

bryant     28/12/20 9:47 am  They've been taking a loss every month, are
                                  basically out of money.

sam        28/12/20 9:47 am  oh really.. and we're still paying them 2cpm +
                                  free hosting?

bryant     28/12/20 9:48 am  Yeah, but the scale is much lower than 2cpm.

bryant     28/12/20 9:49 am  They're a flopped startup with a lot of
                                  promise basically.  They burnt through their
                                  cash.  The loss they''ve been taking was due
                                  to their startup costs, not standard operating
                                  costs.

sam        28/12/20 9:49 am  maybe we can use this oppty to renegotiate a
                                  better deal? or nah? :)

sam        28/12/20 9:49 am  how do u mean scale is much lower

bryant     28/12/20 9:50 am  Scale is like a 1cpm or less I think.

sam        28/12/20 9:50 am  really?

sam        28/12/20 9:50 am  thats ncie.. i thought it was 2

bryant     28/12/20 9:50 am  I thought so, lemme check.

bryant     28/12/20 9:52 am  1500.00 for every 1750k PVs mo.  So less than
                                  1cpm scales.

bryant     28/12/20 9:53 am  Anyway, they're still on the phone with me.
                                  They're saying Nate gave them a timeline and
                                  that's why they cancelled their hosting.

sam        28/12/20 9:54 am  hm.. can they keep it alive for another 30
                                  days

sam        28/12/20 9:54 am  we're in the midst of a move from CAIS to
                                  another provider

bryant     28/12/20 10:00 am I think we're covered.  THey're going to see
                                  about some sort of temporary solution with
                                  their old provider.

sam        28/12/20 10:01 am sounds good :)

bryant     28/12/20 10:05 am Hey, have had a couple webmasters ask about
                                  the availability of the horizontal navbar.
                                  Any word on when that's going to be ready?

sam        28/12/20 10:06 am yeah.. waiting on nate.. but that will only be
                                  available in areas where they cant absolutely
                                  use the vertical

bryant     28/12/20 10:07 am Penny-Arcade is wondering if they can put the
                                  vert navbar on the left too, below their nav
                                  buttons on the new design.  It's below the
                                  fold, but right in the meat of their content.
                                  Thoughts?  It would be above the fold on the
                                  strip pages which is both the bulk of their
                                  traffic and their largedst exit pages.

sam        04/01/20 2:01 pm  hey Will.. how are the ad sales efforts going
                                  thus far?

bryant     04/01/20 3:54 pm  Haven't made just tons of headway.  I've
                                  received a bunch of materials from Chris and
                                  have followed up with the existing RFP that I
                                  have out - but haven't really started pursuing
                                  much beyond some gaming contact leads I have
                                  yet.  'More' being local sales and the like.
                                  I haven't made a clean break from acqs at all,
                                  in fact there are some big sites I'm trying to
                                  reorganize to fit our newer needs and see if
                                  we can get them in with the new structure.

bryant     04/01/20 3:56 pm  It's a juggling act and I just have more acqs
                                  balls up at the moment than sales, but I think
                                  I'm on the cusp of being able to divert more
                                  time towards the sales.  Managed to track down
                                  point of contacts for some of the more
                                  significant 'localized' companies I think
                                  might be interested in regional sales - so
                                  hoping to start cold calling them this
                                  weekend.

sam        04/01/20 11:17 pm sure.. we're getting burned bigtime on
                                  page-view counting.. we need to do
                                  acquisitinos by daily visitor counting..
                                  pageview is an artificial indication of
                                  traffic.  also, just fyi, i did all the
                                  original acquisitions (30).. and all those
                                  are/were 1year deal.. they're due up now.. and
                                  its saved us 90%.. the 3 year was an idea
                                  whose time has come to pass..its an eternity..
                                  i'd like to also go back to doing one year
                                  deals (vest their shares and case over one
                                  yera)

bryant     04/01/20 11:46 pm Sounds good on the one year, I don't see that
                                  being an issue with people at all.  In terms
                                  of daily visitor counting, I haven't run into
                                  anyone yet that has really balked at that -
                                  and to be honest, it might help the acqs
                                  process.  Webmasters are used to talking PVs
                                  and CPMs - start talking visitors with them
                                  and we've taken them out of their comfort zone
                                  in terms of what they think they should
                                  expect.

sam        04/01/20 11:47 pm i know :)
#27 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:01:34
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
sam        04/01/20 11:48 pm and in this market, 1 year and that would be
                                  alot more efficient.. now to just get our revs
                                  going
                                  

sam        04/01/20 11:48 pm btw, do u know marc? matt said he was looking
                                  for another job or something

sam        04/01/20 11:48 pm if u know him, can u talk to him see whats
                                  going on. we'd like to keep him
                                  

bryant     04/01/20 11:48 pm Marc Frank?  Yeah, know him well.

bryant     04/01/20 11:48 pm Will do.  We talk just about every day.

sam        04/01/20 11:49 pm i know 3 ppl in the office needed rent $ and
                                  we cut them checks for it

sam        04/01/20 11:49 pm and nate asked about marc needing $ for check
                                  or something, i said not a problem of course

sam        04/01/20 11:49 pm and yesterday matt said he was looking for
                                  another job cuz he was getting evicted or
                                  something..yikes

sam        04/01/20 11:49 pm btw, our money is being wired today so we
                                  should be set

bryant     04/01/20 11:49 pm Hmm, yeah - I'll definitely talk to him today.

sam        04/01/20 11:51 pm thanks!

bryant     04/01/20 11:51 pm No problem - would hate to see Marc leave!  

sam        04/01/20 11:51 pm im sure we'll be able to have him stay

sam        04/01/20 11:52 pm i thought nate was going to talk to victoria
                                  to get a check over to him.. guess that didnt
                                  happen

bryant     04/01/20 11:52 pm I am too to be honest.  He would have let me
                                  know if he was serious about leaving.

sam        04/01/20 11:54 pm ok :) everything else is starting to look
                                  good. working on a big deal w/ excite right
                                  now.. getting our european arm going so they
                                  can take over that inventory.. im still
                                  distressed over our ad sales effort.. geting
                                  worse.. i moved 2 ppl around to our biz dev
                                  and have a new vp of biz dev (worklife
                                  founder).. and they're pitching our b2b
                                  solutions to portals now

bryant     04/01/20 11:55 pm New sales guru (cnet lady) working out well?

sam        04/01/20 11:56 pm she doesnt start till the 15th.. im concerned
                                  about her though.. she was distressed that we
                                  didnt take credit cards.. and she didnt want
                                  to have a 100k/month quota.. 60k/month was
                                  what she wanted to start out w/

sam        04/01/20 11:56 pm sales ppl bs

sam        04/01/20 11:56 pm so we'll see how it goes

bryant     04/01/20 11:56 pm Yeah - they do seem to share a common trait
                                  with that.

sam        04/01/20 11:56 pm i mean who takes credit card payments for ad
                                  sales

sam        04/01/20 11:56 pm she said most of her clients

sam        04/01/20 11:57 pm like.. are they small clients? she said her
                                  clients put it on their biz card

sam        04/01/20 11:57 pm weird..

bryant     04/01/20 11:57 pm No kidding, I've never heard of that.  With
                                  the one exception of google.com who has a link
                                  "instant advertising with a credit card".

bryant     04/01/20 11:57 pm Which is sort of cool, but I wonder if anyone
                                  has ever used it?

sam        05/01/20 12:03 am ya..not sure.. http://206.161.202.42/
                                  
                                  new automotive hub.. if excite buys off on it,
                                  then we might need to buy auto sites to
                                  backfill the inventory

sam        14/01/20 1:33 am  your check amount is 'net' ..meaning taxes
                                  have already been taken out

bryant     14/01/20 1:35 am  Yeah, we saw that.  It's just a different
                                  amount than what normally gets deposited each
                                  pay period.  We were just confused.

sam        14/01/20 1:35 am  really? how much is it off by

bryant     14/01/20 1:35 am  May be a moot point, our bank isn't going to
                                  let us deposit the check in my account.

bryant     14/01/20 1:36 am  Mine is off $218.43, Jo's is off $53.54.

sam        14/01/20 1:36 am  i told victoria to wire it to every1 friday
                                  but she said the wiring deadline was 2 (it was
                                  3).. any other way we can get the money out to
                                  u fast?

sam        14/01/20 1:36 am  can you sign on the back as DBA Will Bryant

sam        14/01/20 1:37 am  or "for deposit only payable to will bryant
                                  and sign underneath"

bryant     14/01/20 1:37 am  I don't think so.  It's not the end of the
                                  world though.  We're scrambling right now to
                                  see if we can get a GMX account open down here
                                  so that we can just xfer the money into our
                                  personal accounts.

sam        14/01/20 1:37 am  i used to do that all the time

bryant     14/01/20 1:37 am  Yeah, we tried all that.  Damn banks won't let
                                  any of that slide.

sam        14/01/20 1:37 am  :(  i wonder how victoria made that mistake

bryant     14/01/20 1:37 am  Actually, we might be cool.  Jo's heading out
                                  to try and open a biz account now.

sam        14/01/20 1:38 am  i coudl wesetern union the funds or
                                  something.. monday is bank holiday so no wires
                                  allowed then either

bryant     14/01/20 1:38 am  She's had a lot riding on her - I don't have
                                  any hard feelings towards anyone.  It happens.
                                   =)

sam        14/01/20 1:39 am  yeah.. we were short.. all the $ didnt come
                                  in.. so i had an idea.. to net it out.. and
                                  then we'd pay the taxes next week.. and i told
                                  her to do that.. she went through adp and
                                  figured out everyone's nets

bryant     14/01/20 1:39 am  re: Western Union - whatever you think is
                                  best.  I wouldn't care at all about waiting
                                  until next week, but we're going to get hit
                                  with some serious penalties with the mortgage
                                  company.

bryant     14/01/20 1:39 am  Heh, that's a good idea.  =)

sam        14/01/20 1:39 am  i know :) she was like huh.. what u cant do
                                  that
                                  
                                  i said yes you dcan :)

sam        14/01/20 1:40 am  how much penalty?

bryant     14/01/20 1:40 am  If the bank lets us open this biz account
                                  we're golden.

bryant     14/01/20 1:40 am  Can get the mortgage in and everything.

sam        14/01/20 1:40 am  ok.. hopefully they should.. do u have
                                  gamesmatrix documentation

bryant     14/01/20 1:40 am  Yeah.  Just had to type up a few quick "board
                                  resolutions" lol.
                                  

bryant     14/01/20 1:40 am  Have everything else.

sam        14/01/20 1:40 am  heh been there done that :p

sam        14/01/20 1:41 am  was roy's check send to u?

bryant     14/01/20 1:41 am  Anyway, thanks for asking about it.  Hopefully
                                  the 'crisis' has been diverted.  If the bank
                                  gives us a problem I'll let you know to see if
                                  we can find another solution.

bryant     14/01/20 1:41 am  Yeah it was - I'm priority mailing it to him
                                  now.

sam        14/01/20 1:41 am  sure no problem

sam        14/01/20 1:41 am  thanks for sticking it out.. kinda rough week
                                  :)

bryant     14/01/20 1:43 am  We're all in this for the long haul and for
                                  the company.  eFront is preferable to
                                  something a little more secure but not as
                                  exciting.  Will make it that much better when
                                  we come out the other side.  =)

sam        14/01/20 1:44 am  yeah i know :) ill fwd you a good news email..
                                  hopefully something comes out of it

bryant     14/01/20 1:44 am  Great!
                                  

bryant     14/01/20 1:44 am  Hey, did Jon send you that gamers.com article
                                  re: UGO and its affiliates?

sam        14/01/20 1:45 am  yeah he did..

bryant     14/01/20 1:45 am  Woops.  Jo says I have to go with to open this
                                  thing.  I'm off.  Will talk to you later.

sam        14/01/20 1:45 am  k talk to u later

bryant     14/01/20 4:39 am  FYI
                                  
                                  Lowtax (ICQ#19629905) Wrote:
                                  Will, I'm probably going to be giving up SA.
                                  I can't wait until February to be paid, and
                                  I'm sick to death of all this network crap and
                                  never knowing if I'll have enough money to pay
                                  rent at the end of the month.  I'm broke and I
                                  can't take this any more..

sam        14/01/20 4:42 am  have hiim send an email to g3 outlining his
                                  needs .. g3 is collecting all of those and
                                  we'll be allocating some funds to take care of
                                  the webmasters who are struggling

bryant     14/01/20 4:42 am  Will do.

sam        14/01/20 5:11 am  in the recap email g3 is sending out monday,
                                  he's going to remind every1 of their
                                  confidentiality clause

sam        14/01/20 5:11 am  i mean if infospace sees stuff like that, we
                                  wont get any funding

sam        14/01/20 5:11 am  then its a sure death

sam        14/01/20 5:11 am  so we're only hurting ourselves

sam        14/01/20 5:34 am  roy & i were just talking about SA

sam        14/01/20 5:35 am  we wanted to see if we can try a new concept
                                  with him

bryant     14/01/20 5:45 am  Sorry back - seems one of the PA guys is
                                  continuiing to shit on us in public - and is
                                  being specific about myself and Jon in the
                                  process.  Trying to diffuse that through the
                                  other PA guy, but with no luck.

sam        14/01/20 5:46 am  what do you recommend?

bryant     14/01/20 5:49 am  I think we need a cease and desist letter from
                                  the lawyers.

sam        14/01/20 5:49 am  and shut their site down?

bryant     14/01/20 5:50 am  I think that needs to go out as soon as
                                  possible.  If he continues, I think we need to
                                  take some action.

sam        14/01/20 5:50 am  do you recommend shutting them down

sam        14/01/20 5:50 am  to get their attention?

bryant     14/01/20 5:51 am  No, I think we fire a warning shot with the
                                  letter.  If that doesn't work I think we come
                                  down hard and furious in every way we can.

bryant     14/01/20 5:51 am  If Mike manages to impair our ability to
                                  operate we have legal recourse, but what good
                                  does that do us if we go under because we miss
                                  out on some big deal?

bryant     14/01/20 5:52 am  Shutting them down now would just fuel the
                                  fire.

bryant     14/01/20 5:52 am  The letter gives him enough rope to either
                                  hang himself, or climb off his soapbox.

sam        14/01/20 5:52 am  do you have a sample cease & desist letter

sam        14/01/20 5:52 am  i'd like to get it fired off today

sam        14/01/20 5:52 am  im looking on my hard drive to see if i have
                                  any

sam        14/01/20 5:52 am  we put specific evidence, etc. and quote laws

sam        14/01/20 5:53 am  and fire a warning shot..

sam        14/01/20 5:53 am  and using his letter he sent us also as
                                  evicence of breach

sam        14/01/20 5:53 am  and violating our confidentialty policies

sam        14/01/20 5:53 am  as well as defamation

bryant     14/01/20 5:54 am  Yeah, we have to do something.  It needs to be
                                  Mike 'Gabe' Krahulik to, and not Jerry 'Tycho'
                                  Parkinson.  Jerry isn't being vocal.

sam        14/01/20 5:56 am  im seeing if i can find a sample copy of a
                                  generic c&d .. then we put specfics in there..
                                  and fax it to him on efront letterhead
                                  
                                  and on the bottom we can do
                                  
                                  cc: Melody Dapp Williams,
                                  [full title, esquire, etc.]
                                  
                                  that way it makes it seem intimidating that
                                  the lawyer is ccd on it

sam        14/01/20 5:56 am  and we can send it to our lawyer as well

sam        14/01/20 5:56 am  but it brings more credibiilty

bryant     14/01/20 5:56 am  Yeah.

sam        14/01/20 5:56 am  and we order eerything to be ceased in 24
                                  hours and retract everything they said

sam        14/01/20 5:56 am  and delete their postings

sam        14/01/20 5:56 am  or we will take action

sam        14/01/20 5:58 am  do you guys wnat to prepare it and ill review
                                  it then you can fax to him?

bryant     14/01/20 5:59 am  Yeah, have a template?

sam        14/01/20 5:59 am  still searching :)

bryant     14/01/20 6:03 am  Is Greg writing a letter as well?  Or is that
                                  the one Jerry is having me do the first draft
                                  of?

sam        14/01/20 6:04 am  oh thats probably you.. not sure who was doing
                                  it

bryant     14/01/20 6:04 am  ok cool - just wanted to make sure we weren't
                                  overlapping.

bryant     14/01/20 6:05 am  These people kill me.  They're so short
                                  sighted and immature.  I've been trying to
                                  talk sense to Tycho but I'm not sure I'm
                                  gettomg anywhere.

bryant     14/01/20 6:10 am  So naive.
#28 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:03:12
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
bryant     14/01/20 6:11 am  I might have talked some sense to Tycho.  I'm
                                  going to watch the messageboards closely this
                                  weekend to see if Gabe persists.  If he does,
                                  we'll get the C&D out.

sam        14/01/20 6:11 am  http://www.creditmania.com/Letters/cease.htm

sam        14/01/20 6:12 am  one sample :)

sam        14/01/20 6:12 am  looking for more

bryant     14/01/20 6:12 am  In the meantime, I've got a lot of issues that
                                  I want to try and work into the letter to try
                                  and diffuse all of this.  I don't think pissed
                                  of webmasters is the end of the world, but
                                  better to have them on their backs wagging
                                  their tails than snapping at us.

sam        14/01/20 6:12 am  yes i agree

bryant     14/01/20 6:13 am  Yeah, found some samples too.  I might also
                                  call in a favor from some people I know at
                                  Paul Hastings under the premise that his
                                  actions are endangering my livelihood by means
                                  of endangering eF.  If they'll do it it will
                                  be from eF, not from me so should work fine.
                                  I hope they will, they're some of the best.

bryant     14/01/20 6:15 am  Some part of me is still carrying a Corps
                                  mentality.  I keep thinking a rifle butt to
                                  some kneecaps would solve all our problems.
                                  Instant collections and quiet webmasters.  =)

sam        14/01/20 6:15 am  i like that attitude :)

sam        14/01/20 6:16 am  anyway we can work on SA? imnot sure if
                                  jonathan fwd u my thoughts on that

bryant     14/01/20 6:16 am  Not sure either, checking.

sam        14/01/20 6:16 am  let me do it

bryant     14/01/20 6:16 am  ok.  

bryant     14/01/20 6:17 am  My current plan with Lowtax is to get him on
                                  the phone next time he's available and find
                                  out what he needs to get by.  Not this $13k
                                  crap - the guy can live on 1/5th of that in
                                  style.

bryant     14/01/20 6:17 am  Perhaps if we can assure him that much at the
                                  very least just until things get better then
                                  he'll be happy.

sam        14/01/20 6:18 am  yeah i know.. actually if u want, put him on
                                  our payroll on normal salary

sam        14/01/20 6:18 am  or something

sam        14/01/20 6:18 am  and if things dont work out, he gets his site
                                  back.. so he's assured

sam        14/01/20 6:18 am  and would reduce the 13k

sam        14/01/20 6:18 am  and also

sam        14/01/20 6:18 am  we can get him to do real revenue stuff that
                                  ill fwd to you

bryant     14/01/20 6:18 am  Yeah - something.  Let me work on him, we have
                                  a decent rapport.

bryant     14/01/20 6:19 am  His #1 issue is server stability right now -
                                  how soon are we at S4R?

sam        14/01/20 6:19 am  and tell him to get his forum msg down in the
                                  meanwhile.. and if we cant work anything out,
                                  then he can rant and rave then :)

sam        14/01/20 6:19 am  s4r..i ask matt and nate everday.. they said
                                  they're almost completed

sam        14/01/20 6:19 am  w/ data transfer

sam        14/01/20 6:19 am  let me ask matt again

sam        14/01/20 6:20 am  if we get SA on our side, then PA ranting will
                                  seem like its their fault

sam        14/01/20 6:20 am  if he posts good stuff about efront :)

sam        14/01/20 6:20 am  and they're a community type of site.. so
                                  bellwether sort of

bryant     14/01/20 6:20 am  Yeah, that's my biggest issue right now.
                                  Everyone seems to think it's okay to rant
                                  about this issues in open public forums.  It's
                                  not.  I mean shit, they can certainly have
                                  grievances and that's a normal aspect of life,
                                  but these people (kids) need to understand
                                  that when they started taking money, it
                                  stopped being a hobby and became a business.

sam        14/01/20 6:21 am  yeah i know

bryant     14/01/20 6:21 am  That's my hurdle right now with the email -
                                  make points like that while narrowing the gap
                                  between us.

bryant     14/01/20 6:22 am  Heh, the good news is that at least at the
                                  moment, we have a lot of people coming to us
                                  interested in being acquired.  Since 1/1 I've
                                  received more direct emails with people asking
                                  to come aboard than in 3 months before.

sam        14/01/20 6:22 am  i know..

sam        14/01/20 6:22 am  if half of our webmasters leave, we can get
                                  better contradcts with

sam        14/01/20 6:22 am  1 year terms.. and $ based on uniques

bryant     14/01/20 6:23 am  lol, no kidding.  

sam        14/01/20 6:23 am  so i dont mind if ppl leave.. but we need to
                                  do it gracefully

sam        14/01/20 6:23 am  like sitepowerup.com i gracefully parted ways

sam        14/01/20 6:23 am  (very bad clickthrus)

sam        14/01/20 6:23 am  and trying to do the same w/ teenstation (too
                                  many banners per user)

bryant     14/01/20 6:24 am  Agree totally.  Hey look, we can really
                                  survive if we lose some of the 'garbage' sites
                                  that will never be able to run anything but
                                  RON stuff.  If we're already overpaying them -
                                  then no harm no foul if they go.

sam        14/01/20 6:24 am  roy7       1/13/200 12:53 PM Argh the SA
                                  forums box seems to be offline.
                                                                    
                                                                    Anyway
                                  please do pay Lowtax
                                                                  
                                  (somethingawful.com) next week if possible. I
                                                                    can take a
                                  pay delay if need be. I feel really
                                                                    bad for him.
                                  He came to us after 2 previous
                                                                    networks
                                  that went under and didn't give
                                                                    people
                                  notice and he had late payments from.
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 12:55 PM tell him to stop
                                  spamming us then
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 12:55 PM and encouraging
                                  his people to stop spamming us
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 12:55 PM rather work with
                                  us and we'll work w/him
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:04 PM  (The Ars article)
                                                                    
                                                                    Brian -
                                  newsletter (ICQ#346505) Wrote:
                                                                    Yeah,
                                  someone that I was working with and
                                                                    wanted to
                                  sell to us saw that and changed
                                                                    there mind
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:04 PM  that's okay.. we
                                  probably dont need acqs right
                                                                    now anyways
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:04 PM  SA makes more
                                  than I realized, $13K/month. I
                                                                    can't pay
                                  that off my credit card. But
                                                                    hopefully we
                                  can send him at least half next
                                                                    week.
                                                                    
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:05 PM  We didn't take
                                  SA's forums down intentionally
                                                                    did we?
                                                                    
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:05 PM  no of course
                                  not..
                                                                    
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:06 PM  we should
                                  probably cut SA
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:06 PM  we cant keep his
                                  forums up
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:07 PM  From a
                                  positioning point of view, if INSP
                                                                    funds us, we
                                  should pay webmasters off before
                                                                    doing a PR.
                                  Don't want them seeing we have a
                                                                    pile of cash
                                  and asking where their money is.
                                                                    ;)
                                                                    
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:07 PM  and he keeps
                                  having server problems with us
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:07 PM  S4R will solve
                                  that.
                                                                    
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:08 PM  I don't like the
                                  idea of cutting someone who
                                                                    has tried
                                  their best for us but we've let them
                                                                    down.
                                  Someone like PA who hate us and wanted
                                                                    out all
                                  along, yeah, they are gone. But Lowtax
                                                                    had been
                                  pretty pro-eFront and trying to
                                                                    support us.
                                                                    
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:08 PM  how has lowtax
                                  been pro-efront
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:08 PM  i was just
                                  thinking in his best interest
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:09 PM  Well he's just
                                  been cooperative in our reveune
                                                                    stuff so far
                                  as I know, and more patient than
                                                                    most of us
                                  would have been with the forum
                                                                    problems.
                                                                    
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:09 PM  megagames emailed
                                  that his srever is down hm
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:09 PM  Any tech people
                                  in today? SA's forum box needs
                                                                    rebooted.
                                                                    
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:10 PM  no.. i dont see
                                  any1
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:10 PM  It looks bad with
                                  the thread Ars links to
                                                                    goign to a
                                  machine that isn't on. ;)
                                                                    
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:10 PM  probably better
                                  for us :)
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:12 PM  in the recap
                                  email g3 is sending out monday,
                                                                    he's going
                                  to remind every1 of their
                                                                  
                                  confidentiality clause
                                                                     i mean if
                                  infospace sees stuff like that, we
                                                                    wont get any
                                  funding
                                                                     then its a
                                  sure death
                                                                     so we're
                                  only hurting ourselves
                                                                    
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:20 PM  I was going to
                                  try paying lowtax with a cash
                                                                    advance
                                  check off a credit card but I didn't
                                                                    realize how
                                  much he made. I don't have that
                                                                    much credit
                                  available on all my cards
                                                                    combined. :)
                                                                    
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:21 PM  we can take care
                                  of him next week probably
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:21 PM  but he needs to
                                  help us not hurt us
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:21 PM  even though i
                                  know his site is all about
                                                                    bitching and
                                  whining
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:23 PM  btw,
                                  somethingawful = 0 srunner links
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:25 PM  Hurmph.
                                                                    
                                                                    I wonder
                                  what the best way to monetize
                                                                    something
                                  like SA is. It's popular (6m+ page
                                                                    views),
                                  kinda famous (Ars are fans), and has a
                                                                    very loyal
                                  following. Not sure if it's
                                                                    something
                                  you can sell branded advertising
                                                                    for, like a
                                  "real" humor site.
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:25 PM  ya .. u cant sell
                                  advertising on it.. its all
                                                                    cussing
                                  bitching whining
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:26 PM  advertisers wont
                                  like it
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:26 PM  however, u can do
                                  srunner type of stuff
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:26 PM  like amd
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:26 PM  like mad
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:26 PM  and xdrive
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:26 PM  and everything
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:26 PM  because its a
                                  community
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:26 PM  but we cant make
                                  money if he doesnt promote
                                                                    our stuff
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:26 PM  on a daily basis
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:27 PM  remember taht one
                                  day he had srunner link (he
                                                                    was whining
                                  about it).. and it got lot of
                                                                    clicks
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:27 PM  but i highly
                                  doubt he'll do all this for us
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:27 PM  The tune will
                                  change once he's paid again. :)
                                                                    
                                  
                                  roy7       1/13/200 1:28 PM  And once he's at
                                  S4R and forums work or, if
                                                                    they crash,
                                  someone can reboot them.
                                                                    
                                  
                                  sam        1/13/200 1:28 PM

bryant     14/01/20 6:24 am  "really survive" meaning, losing some of them
                                  is hardly going to kill us.

sam        14/01/20 6:25 am  yeah im sure we'll survive, i have no doubts..
                                  its time for restructuring and streamlinging
                                  and losing the garbage
                                  

sam        14/01/20 6:25 am  our basic to cover.. rent & payroll isnt tons
                                  (200k)

sam        14/01/20 6:26 am  and some of the bills..we'll just have to make
                                  payment plans on.. and really, i'd like to get
                                  total 100% of our bills to 500k/month and
                                  revenues to go upto 1 mil..
                                  

sam        14/01/20 6:26 am  and glide on that for a little bit.. while
                                  saving up $

sam        14/01/20 6:26 am  with or w/o infospace
                                  

bryant     14/01/20 6:26 am  ok, cool - got the Lowtax stuff.  I think
                                  there's something that can definitely be done
                                  there.  When it comes down to it he's really
                                  quite reasonable and mature (at least compared
                                  to many of the others).  More importantly,
                                  they almost all respect him to a certain
                                  degree so if he's not anti- then maybe some of
                                  them are less so.

bryant     14/01/20 6:27 am  He can help us without transparently being our
                                  puppet I suspect, and should be willing to do
                                  so.

sam        14/01/20 6:27 am  yeah just talk to him.. tell him that we think
                                  he can be a good spokesperson for efront to
                                  the webmaster community and we want to
                                  completely prioritize him and make sure he's
                                  taken care of

bryant     14/01/20 6:28 am  Tim Eckles is taking a beating in the closed
                                  discussion groups though.  Gotta love the guy,
                                  he's going toe to toe with people and trying
                                  to bring them down.

sam        14/01/20 6:28 am  i know.. tim is awesome :)

sam        14/01/20 6:28 am  im feeding him info and material :)

sam        14/01/20 6:28 am  if we got SA on our side, then there's more
                                  voice

sam        14/01/20 6:29 am  so thats why i was thinking forget the 13k..
                                  have a heart to heart with him.. does he
                                  really like what he's doing? does he want to
                                  do it instead of getting a regular job? well
                                  we think there's a way that can be done

sam        14/01/20 6:30 am  and work something out with him where he can
                                  continue to do what he enjoys while we get
                                  what we want from him : revenue projects +
                                  pro-efront support 100% no matter what :)

sam        14/01/20 6:30 am  this is truly like the corps huh :) strategy &
                                  intelligence to overthrow the opposition

bryant     14/01/20 6:31 am  The salaried thing is something intriguing -
                                  pretty comfortable with that approach?  I'm
                                  thinking if we do that he's instantly our
                                  "webmaster advocate".  That could be painted
                                  as a real plus.  "We know you all are upset,
                                  we're trying to be upfront with you but
                                  communications sometimes break down - so we're
                                  appointing one of your own as the liaison for
                                  all concerns.

sam        14/01/20 6:31 am  yeah.. but he also has to position for us

bryant     14/01/20 6:31 am  Heh, it's like the Corps, but even more like
                                  my old counterintelligence work.  As stressful
                                  as it can be, it's also a lot of fun.

sam        14/01/20 6:32 am  meaning in good times and bad times he has to
                                  stick together

bryant     14/01/20 6:32 am  Well yeah, but obviously we wouldn't position
                                  it that way to the webmasters.

sam        14/01/20 6:32 am  and we'll make sure he never gets evicted as
                                  long as we're around :)

bryant     14/01/20 6:32 am  Dunno, I won't go into any of that with him
                                  until I have a good idea of where his head is.
                                  

sam        14/01/20 6:32 am  thats true

sam        14/01/20 6:32 am  well see what u can do :)

bryant     14/01/20 6:32 am  Will do.  I need to run - will talk to you
                                  later.  =)

sam        14/01/20 6:33 am  if we turn his site into member-only we can
                                  make alot from email makreting too :) ok later

bryant     14/01/20 6:33 am  We'll reign the webmasters in - may just take
                                  a few days.  Once they're under control it
                                  will be easy to separate some of them from the
                                  flock and quietly (and peacefully) trim them
                                  off.

sam        14/01/20 6:33 am  yup

sam        14/01/20 6:34 am  this is probably a good thing all this
                                  happened.. then we can finally control them..
                                  they were like a wild herd before :)

sam        14/01/20 9:45 am  oy7: (5:42 PM) http://www.lumthemad.net
                                  
                                  Whoa that's odd. They claim we are throwing in
                                  the towel and fired most of our staff last
                                  month.
                                  sam: (5:43 PM) thats because of stupid SA
                                  posts
                                  sam: (5:43 PM) he blatantly violated our NDA
                                  sam: (5:43 PM) so i doubt he's getting paid
                                  next week
                                  sam: (5:44 PM) before some of our other
                                  webmasters
                                  sam: (5:44 PM) who are in more need
                                  sam: (5:44 PM) so he needs to retract what he
                                  said or..

sam        16/01/20 11:05 am heh.. tim from aah wants to take over doing PA
                                  cartoons:)

sam        16/01/20 11:05 am he said he'll make fun of lazy,
                                  web-generation, immature whiny kiddies :)

sam        16/01/20 11:10 am iBLAMEj00 (ICQ#8906076) Wrote:
                                  I know an artist that would probably love to
                                  do it. =)
                                  
                                  
                                  [another options.. kick PA guys out and we can
                                  do the comics ourselves]

sam        16/01/20 11:13 am their email basically said they are not going
                                  to cooperate with us.. thereby they are in
                                  breach of the entire contract.. which means we
                                  fire them and have no further obligations to
                                  them

sam        16/01/20 11:32 am if you can work on restrucutirng some of the
                                  agreements, i think that would help alot..
                                  like SA gets 2cpm.. thats obscene and can't
                                  last ..lot of them like that

sam        16/01/20 11:41 am iBLAMEj00 (ICQ#8906076) Wrote:
                                  Okay, artist is all lined up

bryant     16/01/20 11:50 am Yeah, I can move into restructuring people.
                                  
                                  Re:  PA, let me have 24 hours to see what I
                                  can do.  Presuming I can get them to talk at
                                  all.  I don't have a copy of their email,
                                  would you fwd when you get a chance?

sam        16/01/20 11:51 am Tims's saying that the first storyline from
                                  the new artist is about PA :)

sam        16/01/20 11:51 am yes..

bryant     16/01/20 11:53 am I have a copy of that one.  Did they send one
                                  today declining our out contract?

sam        16/01/20 11:53 am no they didnt

sam        16/01/20 11:53 am but i was being proactive

bryant     16/01/20 11:53 am Ahh, okay.

sam        16/01/20 11:53 am i was telling jonathan in the future, we kick
                                  these guys out

sam        16/01/20 11:53 am and do the content ourselves

sam        16/01/20 11:54 am we have alot of resources through all the ppl
                                  on our team

sam        16/01/20 11:54 am we can always find someone to do the content

sam        16/01/20 11:54 am even if it sux :)
#29 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:04:07
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
sam        16/01/20 11:54 am i was saying that because they said in their
                                  email they refused to put our stuff up, and
                                  thus breach oruagreement, we have a right to
                                  fire them as well

sam        16/01/20 11:54 am and hire other ppl toservice the website

bryant     16/01/20 11:55 am Ah, heh - okay.  I thought they rejected our
                                  'out' offer - I was completely flabbergasted.

sam        16/01/20 11:56 am infospace sent us another termsheet

sam        16/01/20 11:56 am today

bryant     16/01/20 11:56 am Better?

sam        16/01/20 11:56 am man.. not much room to negotiate

sam        16/01/20 11:56 am getting better everytime

sam        16/01/20 11:56 am but still not what we want

sam        16/01/20 11:56 am maybe time to cut bait and go for it huh

sam        16/01/20 11:58 am getting infosapce will give us some $, time to
                                  regroup, and $ in the bank as well

bryant     16/01/20 11:58 am With the timing maybe.  Don't think any one of
                                  us would take a deal like that seriously
                                  except from where we're sitting right now at
                                  this moment.  It does buy us time though, and
                                  time is the one thing we really need.  Our
                                  capacity for success and stability isn't the
                                  issue, having the time to put it in place is.

sam        16/01/20 11:58 am its not a ton of money.. but enough to help us
                                  buy timewhich is the most important thing

sam        16/01/20 11:58 am yup exactly

bryant     16/01/20 11:58 am Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

sam        16/01/20 11:59 am btw, fyi, jerry wont be in all week.. his
                                  grandfather passed away

sam        16/01/20 11:59 am he's flying to ohio 2morrow

bryant     16/01/20 11:59 am Yeah I heard.  Spoke with him briefly this
                                  afternoon too.  Never good to hear stuff like
                                  that.

sam        16/01/20 11:59 am yeah i know

sam        16/01/20 12:04 pm also, before we announce the infospace deal,
                                  i'd like to restructure all our webmaster
                                  agreements

sam        16/01/20 12:04 pm that way we can cry we're in the poorhouse..
                                  etc.

sam        16/01/20 12:04 pm otherwise it'll be tougher afterwards

sam        16/01/20 12:04 pm and we do want to do that because the
                                  infospace money isnt alot and we have to give
                                  all of it back.. so we need to conserve every
                                  penny

sam        16/01/20 12:05 pm so me and you can work on that  i think..
                                  we'll go through the contracts, and as part of
                                  going back to the websites we'll call them and
                                  say this is the offer wed' like to propose to
                                  move forward because of the ad climate

sam        16/01/20 12:05 pm what do u think

bryant     16/01/20 12:07 pm I think it will be fine.  Some of them have to
                                  see it coming.  We can even think about
                                  allowing contingencies that return the
                                  structure to its original form if X, Y, and Z
                                  happen.  But may not even have to go to great
                                  lengths.

bryant     16/01/20 12:07 pm Do we have a list of the biggest money holes?

sam        16/01/20 12:07 pm mpog
                                  
                                  

sam        16/01/20 12:07 pm jus kidding ha ha

sam        16/01/20 12:07 pm ill get you a list of all the sites and stuff
                                  tomorrow

bryant     16/01/20 12:07 pm Heh, true probably.

bryant     16/01/20 12:08 pm OK, sounds good.

sam        16/01/20 12:08 pm so we can work on this project.. and im going
                                  to work w/ dennis to try to push the infospc
                                  fwd:.. having a $3 bil company invest in us
                                  will give us alot of crediblity huh?

bryant     16/01/20 12:09 pm Would almost have to.  Although I still think
                                  that despite the bad press we still stand up
                                  pretty straight on our own merits.

sam        16/01/20 12:09 pm i know.. but we want to kill all of that once
                                  and for all and show that we've adapted
                                  considerably.. that we're bring services to
                                  our user base, nto banners.. and evolving w/
                                  the net

sam        16/01/20 12:17 pm actually you know who would be a good swat
                                  team person to work with you on
                                  restructurings?
                                  

sam        16/01/20 12:17 pm Tim

sam        16/01/20 12:17 pm Tim & I restrucuted a few contracts already 6
                                  weeks ago

sam        16/01/20 12:17 pm He's really good

sam        17/01/20 12:50 pm hey i m almost done with a list of webmasters
                                  we need to renegotiate with

sam        20/01/20 11:11 am hey.. g3 briefed me on ur telecon w/ him..
                                  everything looks good it seems.. i have a
                                  spreadsheet from bill schmidt  on more
                                  webmaster financials as well.. maybe we can go
                                  over it whenever u have a chance this weekend

bryant     20/01/20 11:52 pm Cool, that would be great.  Lot of good info
                                  coming together, I hope to start prioritiziing
                                  sites and indetifying what needs to be changed
                                  asap.

sam        21/01/20 11:17 pm hey linda/lotus msged me about helping with
                                  the chinese websites.. and she asked if she
                                  should talk to u about it.. im going to tell
                                  her yes as well.

bryant     22/01/20 11:51 pm np, she ICQd me.

sam        23/01/20 1:16 pm  efront is a MSP (media services provider) that
                                  provides services and solutions to media
                                  business through  eddie (efront delivery
                                  engine) which consists of:
                                  
                                  -Technology Division ( Managed Ad Serving &
                                  Mgmt, Content Mgmt & ASP, Managed hosting)
                                  - Syndication (Careers, Directories,
                                  Education, Tech content, Downloads, etc.)
                                  - Marketing Services ( Media Services & Media
                                  Sales)
                                  - Direct Marketing (Lead generation for online
                                  and offline businesses)
                                  - International (deploying the above
                                  internationally)
                                  
                                  
                                  [btw, some of the concepts we're currently
                                  developing: we're not a media company, we
                                  provide services and solutions to media &
                                  other businesses .. so probably get rid of the
                                  media from our name too :]

sam        23/01/20 1:18 pm  efront is a MSP (media services provider) that
                                  provides services and solutions to media
                                  business through  eddie (efront delivery
                                  engine) which consists of:
                                  
                                  -Technology Division ( Managed Ad Serving &
                                  Mgmt, Content Mgmt & ASP, Managed hosting)
                                  - Syndication (Careers, Directories,
                                  Education, Tech content, Downloads, etc.)
                                  - Marketing Services ( Media Services & Media
                                  Sales)
                                  - Direct Marketing (Lead generation for online
                                  and offline businesses)
                                  - International (deploying the above
                                  internationally)
                                  
                                  
                                  [btw, some of the concepts we're currently
                                  developing: we're not a media company, we
                                  provide services and solutions to media &
                                  other businesses .. so probably get rid of the
                                  media from our name too :]

sam        26/01/20 11:39 am hows the renegotiations going

sam        26/01/20 12:14 pm PA Contract:
                                  Don't think we should accept the changes.  The
                                  problem is that they could be looking to get
                                  us back or something.  If Tim @ AAH or any of
                                  our webmasters or whatever says something bad
                                  about them, they could try to sue us; who
                                  knows?
                                  
                                  Tell them that the reality is that if we do
                                  something illegal to them or defame them, they
                                  can sue us anyways regardless of what the
                                  contract says so no need to put it in there.  
                                  

sam        26/01/20 1:32 pm  hey just talking to alot of people right now
                                  (outside efront.. ppl i talked to about
                                  acquiring before.. like napigator etc.) the ad
                                  market isHORRIBLE.. cpms are now 10 cents RON
                                  .. best time to renegotiate:)

sam        26/01/20 11:13 pm ill send you the email for sitepowerup and
                                  teenstatio...we terminated them.. and we just
                                  need to clean it up

sam        27/01/20 1:54 pm  Will-I must have an update on the
                                  renegotiations.  Feb. 1 is approaching fast.
                                  What are we doing

bryant     27/01/20 1:57 pm  Linda got me her Asian site feedback today.
                                  Greg is putting criteria together.  Jerry is
                                  going to look at the cpmU concept.  Once those
                                  are in place we can rip through pretty
                                  quickly.  Babynames is being handled this
                                  weekend, as is iswoosh presuming he gets back
                                  to the messages I've been leaving.

bryant     27/01/20 1:57 pm  ohtop is ready to go.

bryant     27/01/20 1:57 pm  I've got a basic list of which sites have out
                                  clauses that need to get removed.

bryant     27/01/20 1:57 pm  What happens on 2/1?

sam        27/01/20 1:58 pm  im going through a list / data collection
                                  right now..very interesting.
                                  
                                  btw, i just renegotiated one of the sites
                                  (Avfind.com)  we owed him 65k on his contract.
                                   i gave him 2 options.
                                  1. 20k and we call it even OR
                                  2. he gets his site back, no questions asked
                                  he chose option #1.. (we'd pay 5k next week,
                                  and rest within a month)
                                  
                                  thats another tactic to use

sam        27/01/20 1:59 pm  february 1.. we need to get our payable for
                                  february to at least 200k.. because we wont be
                                  able to pay much more than that for the month
                                  of february until we rebuild our revenues
                                  using direct marketing (its working really
                                  good..but they need to ramp up.. takes 2-3
                                  months)

bryant     27/01/20 2:00 pm  Is our goal to negotiate down what we owe in
                                  back pay or is it to restructure from cpmPVs
                                  to cpmUniques, reduce pay levels where
                                  appripriate as well as remove unhealthy
                                  clauses?

sam        27/01/20 2:00 pm  ill email you an interesting file..

sam        27/01/20 2:05 pm  ok sent an email..
                                  btw, PA guy left msg on my voicemail.. i
                                  deleted it.. whats up w/ him .. are they ready
                                  to sign

bryant     27/01/20 2:05 pm  Should be.  Was it Mike?  Contract is off to
                                  them, they just need to sign and fax.
                                  Expecting it back tomorrow.

sam        27/01/20 2:06 pm  yep.. i figured you're taking care of it.
                                  fyi, i also sent yout he new org chart we
                                  introduced to all the employees yesterday
                                  (well in the office).. w/ the new division..
                                  you're part of corporate development, formerly
                                  acquisition.. i asked bill to interface with
                                  you for any contractual and acq. related
                                  matters as well.. so we can try to focus on
                                  revenue stuff :)

bryant     27/01/20 2:08 pm  Sounds good.  I think once the cpmU stuff is
                                  in place we have a real opportunity to cut $
                                  down.  Plus with the distinct possibility that
                                  some expensive sites might bail - that helps
                                  as well.  Re: 2/1 - even ones we do after that
                                  we'll grandfather back to a 2/1 effective
                                  date.  I'll check on the legality of that, but
                                  it shouldn't present an issue.

sam        27/01/20 2:10 pm  okay no problem.  btw, i think best thing is
                                  to do is renegotiate the length as well.
                                  
                                  going forward, i'd like to get lump sum cash
                                  contracts.. much cleaner and we have full
                                  control.  most of the sites we own outright,
                                  we have people run it for 200--500/month (i
                                  dont know how you spend 4k :)  i get 10 sites
                                  we own outright run for 200$/month and they
                                  run good:)

bryant     27/01/20 2:10 pm  Heh, Babynames walks and that's an extra $16k
                                  free a month, and we only lose 6MM PVs and
                                  just over 500k uniques.  Can replace that
                                  easily with smaller cheaper sites in the same
                                  market.

bryant     27/01/20 2:11 pm  36 -> 18? 24? 12?

sam        27/01/20 2:12 pm  yes i agree.. with cash only deals..they work
                                  really good from deployment standpoint as
                                  well.  the way i structured these in the past
                                  were like this:
                                  * 25k cash
                                  * 30 day due diligence, then 5k
                                  * 30 day where they redesign it to our
                                  standards, move it over  and 10k
                                  * 30 days warranty support 10k
                                  
                                  and we're done!

sam        27/01/20 2:12 pm  pretty smart huh:) we only say.. 25k upfront
                                  cash

sam        27/01/20 2:12 pm  in the contract we outline how this is broken
                                  down

bryant     27/01/20 2:12 pm  Any recurring money after that?

sam        27/01/20 2:12 pm  and if they come back, we just say this is to
                                  protect ourselves and make sure its moved over

sam        27/01/20 2:13 pm  no ..ZERO

sam        27/01/20 2:13 pm  i have like 5 sits like this..theyre great

bryant     27/01/20 2:13 pm  Wow, how do they support their staff?  Or
                                  don't they have any?

sam        27/01/20 2:13 pm  just consultants.. pay them 200 to 500 a
                                  month.. i have alot of kids work for us

sam        27/01/20 2:13 pm  i have access to 50 kids

sam        27/01/20 2:13 pm  h.s. kids everywhere

bryant     27/01/20 2:13 pm  Ahh, okay.

sam        27/01/20 2:13 pm  i can get as many

sam        27/01/20 2:13 pm  better than working in mcdonadlsl

sam        27/01/20 2:13 pm  and they'll do anything we say.. in terms of
                                  design, etc

sam        27/01/20 2:14 pm  and most of the sites are easy to maintain
                                  once they have the traffic

sam        27/01/20 2:14 pm  no stocks, nothing

sam        27/01/20 2:14 pm  of course, you probably cant do it with sites
                                  like themeworld etc.,

sam        27/01/20 2:14 pm  but those are few and far between

sam        27/01/20 2:14 pm  most sites that have 5k to 25k visitors a day
                                  you can do that

sam        27/01/20 2:14 pm  which is majority of our sites

sam        27/01/20 2:14 pm  pretty neat huh? that makes life easier for
                                  everyone..and gives us a huge cashcow
                                  long-term..

bryant     27/01/20 2:15 pm  Actually, themeworld I think is a one man
                                  show.  Static content sites that would really
                                  work for (cheats, pics, etc.).  It's dynamic
                                  content sites that it would be harder to work.

sam        27/01/20 2:15 pm  actually funny thing is that

sam        27/01/20 2:15 pm  the sites i did those deals for ARE dynamic
                                  sites

bryant     27/01/20 2:15 pm  No kidding.

sam        27/01/20 2:15 pm  bytecenter.com totally CGI

sam        27/01/20 2:15 pm  avfind.com.. i did the site renegotiation
                                  today.. and got a perl programmer kid
                                  (200/month) whos going to take it over

sam        27/01/20 2:16 pm  gldev.com is same way.. mysql
                                  
                                  skinz.org.. is owned by us 100% .. different
                                  people running it.. we pay each guy 500/month

sam        27/01/20 2:16 pm  you get the idea

sam        27/01/20 2:16 pm  i can find resources to run sites.. thats
                                  never a problem

sam        27/01/20 2:18 pm  the spreadsheet is interesting

bryant     27/01/20 2:22 pm  Good lord - we pay indianmasala 10k a month?

bryant     27/01/20 2:22 pm  Always hard to remember what the market
                                  allowed this time last year.  =)

sam        27/01/20 2:22 pm  i think so.. brian did the deal..

sam        27/01/20 2:22 pm  only 2-3 months ago

sam        27/01/20 2:23 pm  we need to reduce that

sam        27/01/20 2:23 pm  this was kinda building up.. remember i sent
                                  that email out 3 months ago concerning how cpm
                                  rates are falling etc. and dont pay more than
                                  1 cpm on most sites :)

sam        27/01/20 2:24 pm  out in the trenches, you kind of start to get
                                  an idea.. its okay though..
                                  
                                  most of the sites.. we either renegotiate, or
                                  give back the sites

sam        27/01/20 2:24 pm  i thnk the best way to increase our margins is
                                  to reduce the length of the term

bryant     27/01/20 2:24 pm  Certainly.  

sam        27/01/20 2:24 pm  upfront cash (3 month).. or one year
                                  (themeworld type of sites)

bryant     27/01/20 2:25 pm  So you've been taking a % of the total cash
                                  value from the original contract?  How are you
                                  determining how much cash they're given?

sam        27/01/20 2:25 pm  as low as i can get them :)

sam        27/01/20 2:26 pm  depends on their needs.. economic hardship,
                                  etc. :)

sam        27/01/20 2:26 pm  i basically say original contract doesnt mean
                                  squat

bryant     27/01/20 2:26 pm  Using Megagames as an example, we pay them 30k
                                  over 36 months - that's $1.08M before you
                                  consider equity 'value' etc.

sam        27/01/20 2:26 pm  make Xyz with us.. or make 10 cent cpm out
                                  there in the market

bryant     27/01/20 2:26 pm  I see.  So it's less about the old deal than
                                  it is a new.

bryant     27/01/20 2:26 pm  I gotchya.

sam        27/01/20 2:27 pm  and better to do just cash payment

sam        27/01/20 2:27 pm  than going from 3 year to 1 year

sam        27/01/20 2:27 pm  because if u do that, they'll know you're
                                  trying to reduce the payments

bryant     27/01/20 2:27 pm  Right.

bryant     27/01/20 2:27 pm  Can we afford to pay out such large lumps to
                                  people all at once?
                                  

sam        27/01/20 2:28 pm  and the excuse to use is that.. we're having
                                  hard time deploying campaigns etc.  we have 3
                                  options really..
                                  1. you take the site back (ill hve to talk it
                                  internally)
                                  2. we renegotiate the contract based on
                                  uniques, etc.
                                  3. we make a reasonable cash payment and call
                                  it even

sam        27/01/20 2:28 pm  well, structure it so that the cash isnt all
                                  at once

sam        27/01/20 2:29 pm  (some now, some for warranty support,
                                  etc...and drag it out over 3 months)

sam        27/01/20 2:29 pm  and not make it so large.. like avfind.com ..
                                  made it from 75k to 20k

bryant     27/01/20 2:29 pm  Was 75k the total he would have made over the
                                  term of his agreement?

sam        27/01/20 2:30 pm  his term was expriing feb 28, 2001
                                  we hadnt paid him since oct. 2000.. he was
                                  getting basically 15k/month..

sam        27/01/20 2:30 pm  (3 cpm.. yikes)

sam        27/01/20 2:30 pm  he agreed to the new stuf.. i just have to
                                  send it to him and make sure he doesnt change
                                  his mind.. nice site too.. and decent traffic
                                  AND we can put a srunner link next to each
                                  song :)

sam        27/01/20 2:31 pm  did u see the spreadsheet i gave u
                                  

bryant     27/01/20 2:31 pm  I see.  I'm just trying to apply the model to
                                  sites that have very large amounts that will
                                  build up over the next few years.  Megagames
                                  for example is over #$1MM.  Even if we brought
                                  that down to $150k that would be $20k more a
                                  month than we pay him now ($30k).

bryant     27/01/20 2:31 pm  Yeah, I'm looking it over now.

sam        27/01/20 2:31 pm  yeah..megagames would be hard to do.. i'd
                                  leave him till last i think

sam        27/01/20 2:32 pm  until he relly gets in a jam $ wise

sam        27/01/20 2:32 pm  he was already

sam        27/01/20 2:32 pm  at some point in the future, we might be able
                                  to take the site for 2 payments of 50k a
                                  piece.. that sounds bad i know :)

sam        27/01/20 2:32 pm  or at least reduce it

sam        27/01/20 2:32 pm  personally, i'd skip that site for now

bryant     27/01/20 2:33 pm  OK I see, so there is a sweet spot for this
                                  process.  Sites closer to term on their
                                  agreements in a cash bind so anxious and
                                  willing to get a sum of cash in the short term
                                  instead of more in the long.

bryant     27/01/20 2:33 pm  And obviously we position "more in the long"
                                  to be more like "questions about any in the
                                  long".

sam        27/01/20 2:33 pm  yeah.. somethingawful.. the site isnt a site
                                  without him.. so we need to keep him

sam        27/01/20 2:33 pm  we should get him for 4k/month flat or
                                  something

sam        27/01/20 2:34 pm  have u talked to him about renegotiation

sam        27/01/20 2:34 pm  yeah questions about any in the long :)

bryant     27/01/20 2:34 pm  I've planted the seeds but haven't really gone
                                  in depth yet.
#30 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:05:05
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
sam        27/01/20 2:34 pm  and we never talk about suing them or screwing
                                  them.. worst case, they get their site back..
                                  
                                  we threaten them with giving their sites back

sam        27/01/20 2:34 pm  thats not so bad is it:)

sam        27/01/20 2:34 pm  of course, if they want us to keep it thats
                                  fine too

sam        27/01/20 2:35 pm  they have to get in line like the rest of our
                                  webmasters to collect

bryant     27/01/20 2:35 pm  Not at all.  It never is when the choice is in
                                  their hands.

bryant     27/01/20 2:35 pm  We're telling them what we need to do in order
                                  to get them money, and saying we understand if
                                  that doesn't work for them and being kind
                                  enough to ignore the ownership agreement.

sam        27/01/20 2:35 pm  just looking at some of the contracts, etc. in
                                  terms of lump sum payments, we'd put them #1
                                  on the priority list to get paid

bryant     27/01/20 2:35 pm  At least that's the approach.

sam        27/01/20 2:37 pm  our to 36 sites generate 80% of our daily
                                  visitors
                                  

sam        27/01/20 2:37 pm  1.3  mil / 1.6 mil = 81%

bryant     27/01/20 2:40 pm  OK so;
                                  
                                  Lumps of cash (cut way the hell down) -or-
                                  Shorter contract based on cpmU with modern
                                  cash scale -or-
                                  Site back
                                  
                                  Yes?

bryant     27/01/20 2:41 pm  With the focus obviously being on the sites
                                  making the most and/or those in the top 36.

sam        27/01/20 2:41 pm  yes.. although we dont want to give the site
                                  back if we can help it.. we just threaten it
                                  
                                  for ex., at a few times, avfind said,.. ok ill
                                  just take my site back.
                                  
                                  of course response was.. 'okay so you dont
                                  want any cash then right'
                                  
                                  then he said.. oh wait.. well hm

sam        27/01/20 2:41 pm  do u hae most of the contracts

bryant     27/01/20 2:41 pm  Almost all, yeah.  

bryant     27/01/20 2:42 pm  Those I don't Kevin will FAX me as I need them

sam        27/01/20 2:42 pm  we dont want to give any of the 1 year
                                  contracts one back either

bryant     27/01/20 2:42 pm  Of course.  Too close to owning outright.

sam        27/01/20 2:42 pm  how are you guys holding up? pretty good? jan
                                  31 payment is on time.. feb 15 is uncertain
                                  right now.. (negotiating w/ about.com right
                                  now) ..and webmasters would have to be first
                                  then

bryant     27/01/20 2:44 pm  Holding up fine at present.  How long of a
                                  delay do you anticipate (if any) on 2/15?

sam        27/01/20 2:45 pm  really hard to tell..  i'd like to not any
                                  delay if i can help it. we have these
                                  possiblities:
                                  * about.com done (they are upto 200k now..
                                  they owe us 450k.. and im trying to settle for
                                  300k + get a new contract)
                                  * infosapce is now in the due diligence phase
                                  * meeting with reznor, etc. (geocities
                                  founders).. for possible funding
                                  * other a/r.. although gotta pay webmasters
                                  first
                                  
                                  

bryant     27/01/20 2:46 pm  We'll all play it by ear and see what happens.
                                   We survived the last delay, if it happens
                                  again I'm sure everyone can pull it out again.

sam        27/01/20 2:47 pm  yeah .. i just want to renegotiate so we dont
                                  have a snowball effect.. in terms of a/p
                                  building up.. thats the important thing

bryant     27/01/20 2:47 pm  Oh yeah, if anything is a knockout punch its
                                  multiplied a/p's.

sam        27/01/20 2:48 pm  yeah thats why this is like really important
                                  stuff :)

sam        27/01/20 2:48 pm  so our in-house bulldog is taking the lead on
                                  this then .. you :)
                                  

sam        27/01/20 2:49 pm  got any idea on how you're going to re-work
                                  SA?

bryant     27/01/20 2:49 pm  No, going to think about it a bit.

bryant     27/01/20 2:49 pm  With all of this I don't have to wait for the
                                  cmpU stuff at least.  Should be able to
                                  contact a lot of these people this weekend.

sam        27/01/20 2:50 pm  i can get u the cpmU stuff tonight.. i havent
                                  looked at the ohtop stuff.. that should be
                                  easy to evaluate

sam        27/01/20 2:50 pm  btw, sites like indianmasala (i jsut went
                                  there) .. has their own serach engine im sure
                                  they're making $ from

bryant     27/01/20 2:51 pm  No rush.  I suspec tthat will be the least
                                  taken option.

sam        27/01/20 2:51 pm  basically use audit/violation as an excuse too

bryant     27/01/20 2:51 pm  Going to pull Brian in on some of these.  Any
                                  issue?

sam        27/01/20 2:51 pm  when it comes to them taking the stite back,
                                  dont promise they can have it back.. say that
                                  shouldnt be a problem..but u need to get it
                                  approved, etc.

bryant     27/01/20 2:52 pm  np

sam        27/01/20 2:52 pm  no not at all..

sam        27/01/20 2:53 pm  indianmasala also uses mailbits

sam        27/01/20 2:53 pm  (for example..) t

sam        27/01/20 2:53 pm  dont mess w/ subnet.. i negotiated the poor
                                  guy down 2 times already :) his original
                                  contract was 3 cpm

bryant     27/01/20 2:53 pm  np, we'll use whatever we can to help.

sam        27/01/20 2:54 pm  ill see if i can renegotiate him 1 more time..
                                  he's actully good.. im going to give him all
                                  the mp3 sites to run

sam        27/01/20 2:57 pm  the ones that end in 2001.. im pretty positive
                                  you can work out a lump sum arrangement .

bryant     27/01/20 2:57 pm  I doubt there's a question.  For them it's a
                                  matter of "here's X guaranteed and in short
                                  order, or Y maybe - maybe not over a longer
                                  time".

bryant     27/01/20 2:58 pm  Not one of them will opt to wait longer.

sam        27/01/20 2:58 pm  ya i know.. u can get it for like 10-20 cents
                                  on the dollar..

bryant     27/01/20 2:58 pm  Those are going to be the cakewalks.  It's the
                                  ones that get a good amount for a much longer
                                  period of time that will be the battle.  Even
                                  those should see the value though.

sam        27/01/20 2:59 pm  yeah.. megagames would be a battle.. you can
                                  try your hands at it if you want.. i said last
                                  cuz i antitcipt a lbattle :)

bryant     27/01/20 3:00 pm  Well, I'm going to work on the soft underbelly
                                  first.  When the easy ones are dealt with we
                                  can afford to spend more time on the tough
                                  outer shell.

bryant     27/01/20 3:00 pm  If nothing else, MG might be a better
                                  candidate for cpmU and thus lower payments.

sam        27/01/20 3:01 pm  yeah..although megagames is a flat 30k / month

sam        27/01/20 3:01 pm  and his unique are good

sam        27/01/20 3:01 pm  and his traffic increases

sam        27/01/20 3:01 pm  and his pv/visitor ratio is good

bryant     27/01/20 3:01 pm  Our ace on that one is that our association
                                  with him also hurts us with our relationships
                                  with game producers and PR firms.

sam        27/01/20 3:01 pm  yeah thats a beter ace

bryant     27/01/20 3:01 pm  Well, them maybe just reduce the 30k.  Don't
                                  know - won't worry about that one until
                                  there's time to joust.

bryant     27/01/20 3:02 pm  He's widely considered to be a pro-piracy
                                  site.  I have no stance on that myself, but
                                  it's a tool.

sam        27/01/20 3:02 pm  yeah.. when we make him gaming.efront.com,
                                  we'll remove the crack section..and make it
                                  hidden

sam        27/01/20 3:02 pm  yeah good tool

sam        27/01/20 3:03 pm  btw, just read your cpmU email

sam        27/01/20 3:03 pm  only one problem i hae

sam        27/01/20 3:03 pm  wanna hear it

bryant     27/01/20 3:03 pm  Anyway, I'm going to run.  Will track Brian
                                  down first thing and hopefully can deal with
                                  Jennifer Moss early.  We'll see how many of
                                  the 'easy' ones we can crack down on tomorrow
                                  and Sunday.  I'll very likely need some
                                  contracts here and there I don't have.  Will
                                  someone be around?

bryant     27/01/20 3:03 pm  Absolutely.

bryant     27/01/20 3:03 pm  Shoot.

sam        27/01/20 3:05 pm  we're trying to tie it back to the cpm.. which
                                  means banner, etc.
                                  
                                  ideally, it'd be nice to know how much we can
                                  really make $ per daily visitor.. then use
                                  that data to figure out what the "cpm" model
                                  might be.. then try to think what a reasonable
                                  salary would be if they have high traffic..
                                  then give them something in the neighborhood
                                  of a decent salary using the cpmU model @ the
                                  same time, making sure that their cost vs.
                                  overall $ per daily visitor is just 20% so
                                  gives us a 80% slush factor
                                  
                                  bottom line, we need to have an idea on how
                                  much $ per visitor we can make :)

sam        27/01/20 3:06 pm  its a good start..but @ some point, we'd need
                                  to take that into consideration.. for
                                  incremental visitors added to the network (we
                                  cant add unlimited either..)

bryant     27/01/20 3:07 pm  Certainly.

sam        27/01/20 3:07 pm  ill try to give u an idea of how much $ /
                                  visitor we can make using the short track
                                  history we have with the d.m. and other
                                  programs

sam        27/01/20 3:08 pm  okay.. talk to u later.. good night..thanks:)

bryant     27/01/20 3:08 pm  It will be tough to define a baseline for our
                                  profit margin per user with the rollercoaster
                                  that is the industry.  But we can look at the
                                  lows and average it out.

bryant     27/01/20 3:08 pm  OK, cya.

sam        27/01/20 3:09 pm  thats why the lump sum cash 3 month thing is
                                  the best deal ever i think .. the 33 months is
                                  ours to monetize :) okay cha

sam        27/01/20 3:09 pm  okay cya

sam        30/01/20 12:38 pm any luck on reneogitations??
                                  

sam        30/01/20 12:38 pm progress? update? even one renegotiated
                                  successfully?
                                  

bryant     30/01/20 12:40 pm PA is done, Jerry will have the info from them
                                  tonight.  EMUX is the first straight target
                                  because of the $100k clause on their contract
                                  which comes up in a month.  Just got the
                                  contract on them this afternoon from Kevin, so
                                  we should be calling them tomorrow.  iSwoosh
                                  and BabyNames have been impossible to reach so
                                  far, but we're still trying.

sam        30/01/20 12:41 pm how bout the rest?

bryant     30/01/20 12:41 pm Emux is taking the lead since that's the most
                                  urgent.

bryant     30/01/20 12:47 pm Have to get a resolution on that asap.  There
                                  are a few other fairly urgent ones we're going
                                  to tackle after that.  Brian and I are going
                                  to collaberate on the emux family, then I
                                  expect we'll start splitting up sites from
                                  there.  Obviously BN, iS and PA have fit in
                                  where and as possible.

sam        30/01/20 12:47 pm any thought on plan of attack?
                                  
                                  i duno.. we are dead dead dead in the water if
                                  we dont reduce our payable.. so they're all
                                  urgent

sam        30/01/20 12:48 pm emux is one contract @ 100k..and even if we
                                  owe them, we cant pay them..even if they take
                                  their site back (eventually we will) .. but
                                  the rest of them we probably want to keep on
                                  an ongoing basis so..

bryant     30/01/20 12:50 pm ok.  Might be best if you, Jerry and I (Brian
                                  too maybe) conf on all of this.  I think I'm
                                  getting different concepts of where our
                                  priorities are.  Want to make sure we're
                                  getting done what's most important.

bryant     30/01/20 12:53 pm That'll actually be good - can find out which
                                  sites you two think are most expendable.
                                  Helps to know whose ass we can just kick and
                                  whose we're best not to.  =)

sam        31/01/20 1:47 pm  how did the call w/ jennifer go

bryant     31/01/20 1:48 pm  She had to run while I was still on with Jerry
                                  and the EFG group.  She's making herself
                                  available first thing tomorrow.

sam        31/01/20 1:49 pm  okay just checking :) any luck with the
                                  others? i think that we'll see how the results
                                  go.. then within 24 to 48 hours, have myself +
                                  you + scott p. here + maybe brian even work on
                                  this in a swat team manner and focus on just
                                  this either thursday or friday or
                                  fri,sat,sun,mon
                                  
                                  

bryant     31/01/20 1:50 pm  Also, Rich at SA has cooled off a lot.  Seems
                                  he just let the stress get to him.  I think we
                                  still let him chill a bit and then approach
                                  him later if need be.  In the meantime if tech
                                  can make his stable, we can get him to 100%
                                  compliance which will help.

sam        31/01/20 1:51 pm  yeah lot of the webmasters.. if they dont
                                  cooperate, i prefer not to threaten them.. but
                                  re-vistit later
                                  
                                  to be honest w/ you, ive not had one problem
                                  with anyone.. i always worked things out..
                                  just drag it out and they come to their sense

bryant     31/01/20 1:51 pm  Agree there.  It's just a tough time, some
                                  people just need to vent.

bryant     31/01/20 1:52 pm  Pill popping time.  I'll drop you a line
                                  tomorrow afternoon with some sort of status
                                  update on where we are with the key sites.

bryant     31/01/20 1:52 pm  mame, asta, megagames, babynames, freevote,
                                  etc. etc.

sam        31/01/20 1:53 pm  http://www.pdquick.com/checkout/OurAffiliates.
                                  sp?AC=12
                                  
                                  just ordered food.. babynames.com is listed
                                  there!

sam        01/02/20 12:00 pm update on renegotiations?

bryant     01/02/20 12:10 pm We've been in touch with iswoosh, babynames,
                                  megagames, indianmasala and mame.dk today.  IS
                                  is basically taken care of, he's actually open
                                  to a whole new contract if he stays.  Jenn
                                  (BN) just needs to talk with her partners but
                                  seems open to change.  MG and IM were just
                                  initial contact.  MDK cares most about equity
                                  incentives on future growth.  His traffic
                                  seems completely legit, so we'll do that and
                                  use it to cap the $ and deal with compliance.

sam        01/02/20 12:11 pm who is IS

bryant     01/02/20 12:11 pm Trying to track down hebus.com, xaviersite.com
                                  and astalavista.com as well.  Sub-net is on
                                  the short list, but noone seems to know where
                                  that contract is.

bryant     01/02/20 12:11 pm ISwoosh.

sam        01/02/20 12:13 pm ok.. even taking notes and feeling them out is
                                  a great start :)

bryant     01/02/20 12:13 pm Yep.  We're well into Babynames, mame.dk and
                                  iswoosh.  Don't have a read on the others yet.
                                   So far I think people are being positive
                                  about helping take steps to solidify the
                                  security.

sam        01/02/20 12:15 pm okay.. dont make any offers.. but get them
                                  moving towards the gaosl.. just get a feel for
                                  things.. and go through as many sites as you
                                  can

bryant     01/02/20 12:17 pm Don't make offers?
                                  

sam        01/02/20 12:17 pm http://yahoofin.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-46710
                                  8.html?tag=pt.yahoofin.financefeed..ne

sam        01/02/20 12:20 pm well sure make offers.. if you know what kind
                                  of offers to make?

sam        01/02/20 12:20 pm if you give me an example of an offer or two
                                  you'd like to make, i an take a quick look at
                                  it and amke sure we're on the right track

bryant     01/02/20 12:21 pm I know what the elements are we can't have on
                                  the contracts.  I think I know which sites are
                                  ones we should really try and keep and which
                                  ones would be less of a loss.  Familiar with
                                  what CPMs are appropriate.
                                  
                                  If there are issues beyond that though, then
                                  perhaps I'm not familiar enough with our
                                  goals.  Clearly some of these cases are going
                                  to require decisions on either your part or
                                  Jerry's or both regardless.

sam        01/02/20 12:21 pm my main concern is cashflow

bryant     01/02/20 12:21 pm Understand that completely.

sam        01/02/20 12:22 pm as low as possible..even being creative in how
                                  to achieve that

sam        01/02/20 12:22 pm so i just wanted to get an idea on some of the
                                  offers

bryant     01/02/20 12:23 pm I'll shoot you any we come up with tomorrow
                                  based on the follow-up convos we have.

sam        01/02/20 12:23 pm okay great

sam        01/02/20 12:23 pm is brian involved in the process as well

bryant     01/02/20 12:24 pm Yes.  I pulled him in on iswoosh since he's so
                                  familiar with newsletter issues.  And I'm
                                  having him start the ball rolling with
                                  indianmasala since he closed the deal.  Jon is
                                  involved with babynames with me since he has a
                                  rapport with Jenn.  Using people where/when it
                                  will smooth the process.

sam        01/02/20 12:25 pm k

sam        01/02/20 12:25 pm any lump sum deal possibilties? :) (besides
                                  mpog:)

bryant     01/02/20 12:26 pm All of these deals besides iswoosh are large
                                  value and long term contracts.  None of them
                                  will really fit into that model.

bryant     01/02/20 12:26 pm We'll see a lot more opportunities on that
                                  front when we get into the mid to small range
                                  sites.

sam        01/02/20 12:26 pm ya i figured that

sam        01/02/20 12:27 pm esp. middle

sam        01/02/20 12:27 pm probably doenst make sense to do that with ppl
                                  making 300/month.. we'll have to pay that to
                                  someone else anywyas

bryant     01/02/20 12:28 pm Exactly.  The ones making 2000-4000 are
                                  probably prime.

sam        01/02/20 12:29 pm although stas was making 18k/month.. and we
                                  got him down to 25k total..saved 150k :) tim
                                  helped me on that :) (aah_

bryant     01/02/20 12:30 pm Big drop.  Stas has been an odd one all along
                                  with us running it.

sam        01/02/20 12:31 pm well mostly our techs dropped the ball
                                  somewhat on it.. :/  i was just on the phone
                                  3way w/ nate & s4r guys.. plan to have 99%
                                  uptime within 24 hours.. actino steps, etc.

bryant     01/02/20 12:32 pm That will help a lot.

sam        01/02/20 12:33 pm never have techies project manage :)

bryant     01/02/20 12:35 pm That will help a lot.

bryant     01/02/20 12:36 pm Heh.  Hmm, ICQ is being flakey.

sam        01/02/20 12:38 pm also going forward, i know what w'ere going to
                                  do with payables no matter what

bryant     01/02/20 12:38 pm What's that?

sam        01/02/20 12:38 pm we'll always pay everyone something, no matter
                                  how small.. so that way it keeps them going

sam        01/02/20 12:40 pm and less complains.. and the news is alrady
                                  out

sam        01/02/20 12:41 pm as we have the $.. so we dont have a major
                                  crises again..but more of a one on one
                                  situation..as the cash warrants.. easier to
                                  manage.. and no image to protect now :)

sam        02/02/20 12:50 pm update?

sam        02/02/20 12:50 pm any offers for me to look at?

bryant     02/02/20 1:11 pm  mame.dk is willing to come down from what we
                                  surrently owe them per month which is 31.5k
                                  down to 23.5k and both lower and cap any
                                  further scales.

sam        02/02/20 1:11 pm  23k??????
                                  

sam        02/02/20 1:11 pm  we've never paid them that

sam        02/02/20 1:11 pm  they are on crack

sam        02/02/20 1:11 pm  they are earning ZERO right now

bryant     02/02/20 1:11 pm  According to their contract we currently owe
                                  them 31.5k a month.

sam        02/02/20 1:11 pm  no webguide.. and we told everyone we're
                                  counting webguide impressions as of december
                                  15

sam        02/02/20 1:11 pm  how do you calculate?

bryant     02/02/20 1:12 pm  26MM PVs.

sam        02/02/20 1:12 pm  nope

bryant     02/02/20 1:12 pm  ?

sam        02/02/20 1:12 pm  we told everyone we count by webguide
                                  pageviews

sam        02/02/20 1:12 pm  their webguide pageviews = ZERO

bryant     02/02/20 1:12 pm  They have no issue putting the webguide up and
                                  being compliant in the future.

sam        02/02/20 1:12 pm  well they havent made anything in january

sam        02/02/20 1:12 pm  we told everyone on december 15th

bryant     02/02/20 1:13 pm  We don't host them btw, I presume you know
                                  that.  They cover their own hosting at
                                  60Mbit/sec.

sam        02/02/20 1:13 pm  thats their problem really.. its all illegal
                                  roms anyways

bryant     02/02/20 1:13 pm  Agree.

bryant     02/02/20 1:14 pm  SA is also willing to come down on his pay
                                  level.  But he too wants a firm plan on how
                                  payments are going to come.

sam        02/02/20 1:15 pm  btw, do you know we're using the webguide
                                  impressoins? the stuff they see on
                                  efrontsupport is only their banner impressions

bryant     02/02/20 1:15 pm  I know we told people that.

sam        02/02/20 1:15 pm  we'll give everyone a report soon on what
                                  their webguide counts were

sam        02/02/20 1:15 pm  for january

sam        02/02/20 1:16 pm  also mame has not put srunner or anything

sam        02/02/20 1:16 pm  lets work on an offer sheet for them and you
                                  can present it

sam        02/02/20 1:16 pm  anyone else?

bryant     02/02/20 1:17 pm  BabyNames folks are still talking.  iSwoosh is
                                  fine with $2800 but is also concerned about
                                  back pay.

sam        02/02/20 1:17 pm  iswoosh.. whats the issue, what are we
                                  offering, etc?
                                  

bryant     02/02/20 1:17 pm  Don't know where Brian is with IndianMasala,
                                  was going to follow up with him tomorrow.

bryant     02/02/20 1:18 pm  He felt we owed about $4k for his mailing
                                  lists, we say $2800.  He's agreed to take
                                  $2800 and go, but he also wants to talk about
                                  his back pay.

sam        02/02/20 1:19 pm  does he want the sites back?

bryant     02/02/20 1:19 pm  He's willing to either leave, or stick around
                                  under a new contract.  If he sticks around, he
                                  wants the mailing list back.

sam        02/02/20 1:19 pm  did you tell him chapter 11 or anything

sam        02/02/20 1:19 pm  my goal is to get him outta here, no backpay..
                                  take the site back and call it even
#31 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:05:52
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
sam        02/02/20 1:20 pm  is that doable under any scenario you can
                                  think of?

sam        02/02/20 1:20 pm  any angle :)

bryant     02/02/20 1:20 pm  That's what we'll tell him we're willing to
                                  do.  I suspect he'll take it.

bryant     02/02/20 1:20 pm  Witht he $2800 that is.

sam        02/02/20 1:20 pm  okay..  next?

sam        02/02/20 1:20 pm  btw, im trying to pull up mame stats

sam        02/02/20 1:21 pm  you're saying he has 26 mil pageviews/month
                                  now??
bryant     02/02/20 1:21 pm  That's basically it.  I saw the Megagames
                                  emails.  Not sure where you want to go with
                                  that.  Sub-net contract still seems to be
                                  missing.

bryant     02/02/20 1:21 pm  Somewhere in there, yes.  We've looked at it
                                  closely too and it all seems legit.

sam        02/02/20 1:21 pm  megagames.. well i dunno.. good email huh :)
                                  well imnot sure.. i just wanted to set the
                                  tone and give you leverage

bryant     02/02/20 1:22 pm  Expected some form of cheating, but there are
                                  no signs.

bryant     02/02/20 1:22 pm  Good ratios, no indication of placing banners
                                  on other sites, etc.

sam        02/02/20 1:22 pm  of course those are non-payable pageviews
                                  since he doesnt have webguide, but that was
                                  for january.. moving forward, anyway we can
                                  cap mame.dk to 10k?

sam        02/02/20 1:22 pm  of course, his ctr% suck

bryant     02/02/20 1:23 pm  They claim that doesn't cover the hosting.
                                  Then again, they say they're under an NDA on
                                  what they pay for hosting and can't tell us.

bryant     02/02/20 1:23 pm  We can get them to 10k or even less if we host
                                  them.

bryant     02/02/20 1:23 pm  But that's more than we want.

sam        02/02/20 1:23 pm  they OWN their own isp haha

sam        02/02/20 1:23 pm  so its free

sam        02/02/20 1:24 pm  we can host them.. but they cant putillegal
                                  roms as downloads on our servers:)

sam        02/02/20 1:24 pm  its better for us to put the html on our
                                  servers.. so we have control

sam        02/02/20 1:24 pm  so make a deal.. 10k tops.. we host it.. of
                                  course, we're not goign to allow rom downloads
                                  on our servers.. so they have to link off

sam        02/02/20 1:24 pm  and we got our 10k

sam        02/02/20 1:24 pm  hows that sound.. is that too sneaky :)

bryant     02/02/20 1:25 pm  Might work, certainly no harm in trying.

sam        02/02/20 1:26 pm  if they agree to wipe the past payments as
                                  well.. and make it a one year contract, we
                                  vest more shares

sam        02/02/20 1:26 pm  does that work

bryant     02/02/20 1:26 pm  It may, I'll take it to them.  We willing to
                                  let them go?

sam        02/02/20 1:27 pm  sure.. but tell them sponsors suck out there..
                                  noone is accepting anything..worst case, we'll
                                  have to let them go.. or we'll be filing
                                  chapter 11.. they're welcome to try to hunt
                                  for sponsors themselves
                                  
                                  (also all paymetns will be net 60)

bryant     02/02/20 1:27 pm  OK, we'll see what they say.  Have a call
                                  already set up with them.

sam        02/02/20 1:28 pm  this is fun huh :)

bryant     02/02/20 1:28 pm  Heh, not sure fun is the word.  It's
                                  interesting and necessary at the least.

sam        02/02/20 1:28 pm  next?

bryant     02/02/20 1:29 pm  That's all the action at present more or less.
                                   Any idea where sub-net contract might be?

sam        02/02/20 1:29 pm  ill find it.. it might be under 'seekmp3'

sam        02/02/20 1:29 pm  i renegotiated poor Johan twice alread

bryant     02/02/20 1:29 pm  Ah, ok.  I'll drop Kevin a line about that.

sam        02/02/20 1:29 pm  it was @ 3cpm first (chris howard deal)

bryant     02/02/20 1:29 pm  Oh yeah - that one.

bryant     02/02/20 1:29 pm  Want to leave him alone then?

sam        02/02/20 1:30 pm  my plan was to take all the other 1 year mp3
                                  site deals
                                  

sam        02/02/20 1:30 pm  and give them to johan to mantain

sam        02/02/20 1:30 pm  and tell him he has to maintain the traffic
                                  level

sam        02/02/20 1:30 pm  so all mp3 sites are under him

bryant     02/02/20 1:30 pm  Sounds like a decent plan.  Still doing it?

sam        02/02/20 1:30 pm  yup.. just need to work the other mp3
                                  sites..buy'em out or whatever

sam        02/02/20 1:31 pm  he is 'on our team' meaning one of our
                                  emploees then..and he puts srunner or anything

sam        02/02/20 1:31 pm  my ultimate plan to have like 10
                                  super-webmasters..that run our sites and
                                  deploy whatever we need easy and fast

bryant     02/02/20 1:31 pm  Brian asked if we're comfortable trading
                                  equity on some ratio for cash on some of these
                                  deals, thoughts?

sam        02/02/20 1:31 pm  yes of course

bryant     02/02/20 1:31 pm  Figured.

sam        02/02/20 1:32 pm  but we want to shorten the timeframe, reduce
                                  the cash, net 60, etc.

sam        02/02/20 1:32 pm  trying to cram it all together

bryant     02/02/20 1:32 pm  Right.

sam        02/02/20 1:32 pm  u know what happend to snowbball today right

sam        02/02/20 1:32 pm  blank ads

bryant     02/02/20 1:32 pm  Yeah, saw the PR.

sam        02/02/20 1:32 pm  all that goes to help us

bryant     02/02/20 1:32 pm  Makes us look a little more friendly to our
                                  webmasters.  That's some nasty stuff over
                                  there.

sam        02/02/20 1:33 pm  yeah.. we do some weak stuff too because of
                                  the market.. but our webmastrs are all
                                  sticking it out..

sam        02/02/20 1:33 pm  so we must not be that bad

bryant     02/02/20 1:33 pm  BN wants to know how were handling our
                                  payables to the law firm, CAIS, etc.  She's
                                  worried about sticking around only to have us
                                  sued and BK.  Thoughts?

bryant     02/02/20 1:33 pm  What we're doing is better than what most of
                                  those other groups are.

bryant     02/02/20 1:34 pm  Only area I hear complaints about is lack of
                                  communication.

sam        02/02/20 1:34 pm  thats a tough one.. actually we're going to be
                                  suing CAIs ourselves..

sam        02/02/20 1:34 pm  pillsubury has equity in efront and works with
                                  us

sam        02/02/20 1:34 pm  good relationship

bryant     02/02/20 1:34 pm  OK, that will help appease her.

sam        02/02/20 1:34 pm  CAIS provided no service to us whatsoeve.r.and
                                  we're drafting documents to sue them right nw

bryant     02/02/20 1:34 pm  Wouldn't be in their best interests to hurt
                                  what they have equity in.

sam        02/02/20 1:35 pm  yeah exactky

bryant     02/02/20 1:35 pm  Cool, actually that will help a lot.  

sam        02/02/20 1:35 pm  if you can reduce the monthly payments

sam        02/02/20 1:35 pm  and get rid of the 2 ml etc

bryant     02/02/20 1:35 pm  She seems willing to address all the issues.
                                  Her out, her value guarantee, and her pay.

sam        02/02/20 1:35 pm  offer them their site back against BK
                                  protection
                                  

bryant     02/02/20 1:35 pm  Still talking with her team though.

sam        02/02/20 1:35 pm  i would give their site back to them ni a
                                  heartbeat

sam        02/02/20 1:35 pm  if something happens

sam        02/02/20 1:35 pm  to us

bryant     02/02/20 1:36 pm  Right, np.  I told her that our previous offer
                                  to walk should be a good enough indication
                                  that we always work with people even if it
                                  sometimes goes outside the contract.  She
                                  seemed to accept that.

sam        02/02/20 1:37 pm  any idea on how you would do megagames?

bryant     02/02/20 1:37 pm  Brian is going to approach a battery of
                                  mid-range sites tomorrow and over the weekend
                                  btw.

sam        02/02/20 1:38 pm  information gathering and tsuff would be great

sam        02/02/20 1:38 pm  then we can talk about deal terms, points,
                                  offers

sam        02/02/20 1:38 pm  and go back and make them

sam        02/02/20 1:38 pm  that builds rapports and stuff ,..and seems
                                  like we're doing it slowly.. the 3 G's:
                                  Gather Info
                                  Go over Offer
                                  Get it done

bryant     02/02/20 1:38 pm  Same as the rest.  The approach we've been
                                  using a bit is basically establishing the
                                  obvious elements - poor market, banners dead,
                                  competitors dying, etc. etc. - and letting
                                  them find their own way to what we want to do.
                                   SA offered to drop his pay without me ever
                                  directly bringing it up.

sam        02/02/20 1:39 pm  really? :)

bryant     02/02/20 1:39 pm  Seems to be working this way, also serves to
                                  make them feel like they're more part of the
                                  team by getting involved.

sam        02/02/20 1:39 pm  i think realistically, we shouldnt pay anyone
                                  more than what they can make as a good salary

bryant     02/02/20 1:39 pm  We're definitely channeling them towards the
                                  goals, but letting them work towards it in
                                  their own heads.

sam        02/02/20 1:39 pm  i mean a real nice comfy slaary

bryant     02/02/20 1:40 pm  Right.  Most so far seem completely on board
                                  with that.

sam        02/02/20 1:40 pm  tlel them that.. hey you're doing this, you're
                                  not struggling.. comfy lifestyle

sam        02/02/20 1:40 pm  any thougts on megagames?

bryant     02/02/20 1:41 pm  Was just rebrowsing the emails.  I think a
                                  very similar approach.  "Things you can do to
                                  not just help yourself, but all the other
                                  webmasters."

sam        02/02/20 1:41 pm  Megagames goals:
                                  No outclause.
                                  20k/month fixed
                                  Help us on revenue projects.
                                  
                                  what do ut hink

sam        02/02/20 1:41 pm  yeah

bryant     02/02/20 1:41 pm  Part of that of course being 100% and instant
                                  compliance.

bryant     02/02/20 1:42 pm  Going to suggest that the struggle we're
                                  having now could have been prevented or at
                                  least lessened had people knuckled down and
                                  participated instead of standing around
                                  whining.

bryant     02/02/20 1:42 pm  They know what it's like to not see money now
                                  - that should be a strong motivator to help
                                  make sure it doesn't happen again.

sam        02/02/20 1:43 pm  yeah.. and that its not too late.. but we need
                                  to streamling and cut costs as the market
                                  doesnt support this

bryant     02/02/20 1:43 pm  It's like Jerry Maguire - "Help me, help you".

sam        02/02/20 1:43 pm  yeah
                                  
                                  were u surprised by megagames's reply

bryant     02/02/20 1:43 pm  I was actually.

bryant     02/02/20 1:43 pm  Rolled over with his tail between his legs
                                  quickly.

sam        02/02/20 1:44 pm  well most of the things we said was true, hows
                                  he going to argue bout that :)
                                  
                                  

bryant     02/02/20 1:44 pm  Which is good, he's on weak ground to argue
                                  on.

sam        02/02/20 1:44 pm  he did actually work rpetty hard

bryant     02/02/20 1:44 pm  He didn't comply period.  Helped dig this hole
                                  we're in.  No defense for that.

sam        02/02/20 1:44 pm  i believehim on that

bryant     02/02/20 1:44 pm  Oh I know - I think he's going to be easier
                                  than we thought to be honest.

sam        02/02/20 1:44 pm  yeah.. the trick for him would be to kill the
                                  past payables or somethign

sam        02/02/20 1:45 pm  tell him he's already getting it with the ipo

sam        02/02/20 1:45 pm  or add it to the end of the contract

bryant     02/02/20 1:45 pm  Or at least defer all or most till a liquidity
                                  event.

bryant     02/02/20 1:45 pm  Right.

sam        02/02/20 1:45 pm  and pay him 20 or 25k/month.. that we can
                                  afford that on a consistent basis

sam        02/02/20 1:45 pm  every penny saved helps :)

sam        02/02/20 1:45 pm  our goal is 150k/month payable

bryant     02/02/20 1:45 pm  I think he'll be fine on that front.  We'll
                                  see.

bryant     02/02/20 1:46 pm  Getting him down on $ that is.

sam        02/02/20 1:46 pm  25/150 = 16%

sam        02/02/20 1:46 pm  50/300 = 16%

bryant     02/02/20 1:46 pm  Does someone have a breakdown of what we owe
                                  every site for Jan?

bryant     02/02/20 1:47 pm  Bill S. maybe?

sam        02/02/20 1:47 pm  yeah jonathan has to put the traffic stuff
                                  together and get matt's help in coutning the
                                  webguides per site

sam        02/02/20 1:47 pm  no.. it starts from traffic first

sam        02/02/20 1:47 pm  traffic calculates web guide impressions per
                                  site

sam        02/02/20 1:47 pm  then gives to bill s. and he plugs it into his
                                  spreadsheet

bryant     02/02/20 1:47 pm  OK cool - I'll touch base with Jon then.  It
                                  will be a big help to see exactly how it's all
                                  going to add up and where best to come down
                                  more.

sam        02/02/20 1:47 pm  yup

sam        02/02/20 1:48 pm  im actively driving the sales guys

bryant     02/02/20 1:48 pm  That spreadsheet will be the biggest help I
                                  think.  Time frame on that?

sam        02/02/20 1:48 pm  on the direct marketing
#32 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:07:09
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
bryant     02/02/20 1:48 pm  Yeah, we've given EFG some really solid leads.
                                   Sounds like they're panning out but hard to
                                  tell.

sam        02/02/20 1:48 pm  hmm.. ask jonathan to get the right ppl
                                  involved and give us a timeframe.. hopefully
                                  by next mon/tues?

sam        02/02/20 1:48 pm  yeah .. efg is the most shakiest one

bryant     02/02/20 1:48 pm  OK, will do and will let you know.

sam        02/02/20 1:48 pm  not really sure on that

sam        02/02/20 1:48 pm  we're cutting more payroll too

sam        02/02/20 1:49 pm  200 right now

sam        02/02/20 1:49 pm  we're out sourcing accounting & hr

bryant     02/02/20 1:49 pm  Mike heading out then?  I know his name has
                                  come up before.

sam        02/02/20 1:49 pm  nad i told bill s. to keep the core ppl,
                                  accounting, and take 150k and deduct it.. then
                                  tell me how much we have to cut

sam        02/02/20 1:50 pm  basiclaly, i want bill s. to say ok we need to
                                  cut 30k or whatever to come up to 150k in
                                  payroll

sam        02/02/20 1:50 pm  then we'll go through and try to make cuts

bryant     02/02/20 1:50 pm  Right.

sam        02/02/20 1:50 pm  probably mike, rad, chris h. maybe, maybe
                                  brad,

sam        02/02/20 1:50 pm  people who arent producing/contributing

sam        02/02/20 1:50 pm  as much as they could

bryant     02/02/20 1:51 pm  What's our plan on the next payout to
                                  webmasters?

sam        02/02/20 1:51 pm  im pretty sure we can come upto 150k..and we
                                  have to pay everyone something.. otherwise,
                                  things build up

bryant     02/02/20 1:51 pm  Not 2/19 - whatever's after.

sam        02/02/20 1:51 pm  well im gonig to settle w/ about.com and get
                                  that out to the webmasters

sam        02/02/20 1:52 pm  oh u mean after

bryant     02/02/20 1:52 pm  Yeah.

sam        02/02/20 1:52 pm  i want to make it net 60

bryant     02/02/20 1:52 pm  One of the most common questions.

sam        02/02/20 1:52 pm  and the goal is to get past payment lumped
                                  elsewhere

sam        02/02/20 1:52 pm  and we're building up our nonbanner revnues
                                  right nw

sam        02/02/20 1:52 pm  so the a/r should take care of it when the net
                                  60 kicks in

sam        02/02/20 1:52 pm  so our timing would work well

sam        02/02/20 1:53 pm  and we dont have the baggage of the hit we
                                  dtook with killing our banner business

sam        02/02/20 1:53 pm  and we turned things around fast

bryant     02/02/20 1:53 pm  Yeah, I've basically benn telling them that a
                                  lot of that depends on webmaster willingness
                                  to make some relatively minor changes for the
                                  good of both their peers and the company (thus
                                  their own checks).

sam        02/02/20 1:53 pm  makes for a good spin and story on why we need
                                  net 60 and why we need to lump it at the end

sam        02/02/20 1:53 pm  everything has to flow..and ppl have to see a
                                  light at the end of the tunnel

bryant     02/02/20 1:53 pm  benn=been.

sam        02/02/20 1:53 pm  if february payments arent due until april 30

sam        02/02/20 1:54 pm  and 150k

sam        02/02/20 1:54 pm  we'd be in awesome shape

sam        02/02/20 1:54 pm  awesome awesome

sam        02/02/20 1:54 pm  dont u think

bryant     02/02/20 1:54 pm  Absolutely.  Clearly that's what we'll shoot
                                  for.

sam        02/02/20 1:54 pm  i'd like to be able to renegotiate w/ everyone
                                  and pay them

sam        02/02/20 1:54 pm  after we negotiate

sam        02/02/20 1:54 pm  so that brings them to the table

bryant     02/02/20 1:55 pm  Right

sam        02/02/20 1:55 pm  in terms of negotiating with us :)

sam        02/02/20 1:55 pm  this could work real nicely

sam        02/02/20 1:55 pm  pretty good plan huh?

bryant     02/02/20 1:55 pm  Good opportunity to clean a little house too.

bryant     02/02/20 1:55 pm  Some sites can just plain go.

sam        02/02/20 1:55 pm  yup exactly.. and i want to kill our websites
                                  to like 125

sam        02/02/20 1:55 pm  from all

sam        02/02/20 1:55 pm  i put a good list together

sam        02/02/20 1:55 pm  in my proposal to about.. ill fwd to u

sam        02/02/20 1:55 pm  just a sec

sam        02/02/20 1:56 pm  i spent 4 hours doing that yesterday

bryant     02/02/20 1:56 pm  Wow.  Great though, all the extra vision we
                                  get helps.

sam        02/02/20 1:56 pm  check your email.. interesting

sam        02/02/20 1:59 pm  i took our 125 best sites and categorized
                                  them..and added a description to each site :)

bryant     02/02/20 1:59 pm  Yeah, that's a great list.  I'll
                                  cross-reference that with the other data I
                                  have to give a better idea of who gets a
                                  litlle more rope, or a little less.

bryant     02/02/20 2:00 pm  The sites that can go are going to be simple.
                                  We'll simply make whatever offer suits us
                                  best.  They can take it or leave it.  Little
                                  to no dialog needed.

bryant     02/02/20 2:03 pm  Anyway, time for more pills.  Going to get
                                  running.  We should be talking with Megagames
                                  tomorrow (going to pull Jon in since he closed
                                  him).  Will let you know how that goes, and
                                  when we should see the traffic data pulled
                                  into the spreadsheet.

bryant     02/02/20 2:03 pm  'night.

sam        02/02/20 2:06 pm  sounds good..thanks!

sam        02/02/20 2:06 pm  feel free to msg me if u need anything. ..
                                  this is priority stuff..cya

sam        04/02/20 7:03 am  hey Will hows it going..any update?

sam        04/02/20 7:05 am  i'd like to offer $1cpm per daily unique user

bryant     04/02/20 7:07 am  Nothing of any real significance to report
                                  yet.  Progress on BN and SA.  Brian's working
                                  with IndianMasala but they aren't happy.  Put
                                  together a list of sites for him to jump on,
                                  going to go over everything in greater detail
                                  with him this weekend when he's back online.

bryant     04/02/20 7:08 am  $1cpm per unique translates to $0.17cpm on PVs
                                  for most of our sites.  I'd like to get them
                                  for that too but we probably can't.

sam        04/02/20 7:08 am  im talking to Tim eckel right now

sam        04/02/20 7:08 am  he said valueclick is not accepting any more
                                  members either

sam        04/02/20 7:08 am  nonags wants back in

sam        04/02/20 7:09 am  i think the market rate out there is about 10
                                  cent cpm

sam        04/02/20 7:09 am  what do you estimte

bryant     04/02/20 7:09 am  For RON stuff I think it is too.

sam        04/02/20 7:11 am  so anything above that we'd be losing out :)

bryant     04/02/20 7:21 am  I guess it depends on the site.  RON levels
                                  don't represent what an average level is for
                                  sites with RON + placed sales.  PA for example
                                  will likely be close to a 2cpm in Feb despite
                                  a .10cpm (or so) RON level.

sam        04/02/20 7:21 am  really? how will PA make 2cp

bryant     04/02/20 7:21 am  Direct sales.

sam        04/02/20 7:21 am  will they be able to do it every month on a
                                  long term basis

bryant     04/02/20 7:22 am  Certainly not.  Or at least I don't believe
                                  so.  They of course do, but time will prove
                                  otherwise.

sam        04/02/20 7:22 am  they're still running our banners.. weird

bryant     04/02/20 7:22 am  Then again, market should start to readjust
                                  to.  We're as low as it's going to get right
                                  now IMO.

sam        04/02/20 7:23 am  never mind.. that was my cache

bryant     04/02/20 7:23 am  I think they're completely down right now.

sam        04/02/20 7:24 am  you think? i think wwe're going to get even
                                  lower.. that banner advertising wont even
                                  exist for indepdant sites

sam        04/02/20 7:24 am  i just cant see how :)

bryant     04/02/20 7:24 am  Even the ad networks are going to have to go
                                  beyond the banner.  Much below .10cpm though
                                  and it's not worth anyones bother.

bryant     04/02/20 7:25 am  But independants can't survive on their own
                                  for long, totally agree with you there.

sam        04/02/20 7:25 am  yeah.. u know if we have to lose some of the
                                  sites, so be it

sam        04/02/20 7:25 am  we can pick them up cheaply

sam        04/02/20 7:25 am  after they leave and teest the market

sam        04/02/20 7:25 am  and see that its bad

bryant     04/02/20 7:25 am  Yep.

sam        04/02/20 7:25 am  nonags already emailed me

sam        04/02/20 7:25 am  ill fwd to u.. its funny

bryant     04/02/20 7:27 am  Heh, how was he inflating?

sam        04/02/20 7:27 am  he wasnt

sam        04/02/20 7:27 am  probably refrsh rates

sam        04/02/20 7:28 am  that he was used to  when he was with us

sam        04/02/20 7:28 am  we sent jennifer money friday

sam        04/02/20 7:29 am  jerry called and said she was going to
                                  cooperate in everyway

bryant     04/02/20 7:29 am  Yeah, Jerry told me.  I think she's going to
                                  really come through.  We'll see.

sam        04/02/20 7:29 am  and reduce the payments too

bryant     04/02/20 7:29 am  Yep.

sam        04/02/20 7:29 am  hope she does..

sam        04/02/20 7:29 am  have u had a chance to analyze the sites and
                                  come up w/ a game plan.. like what we want

sam        04/02/20 7:29 am  i think we can add 3 more resources.. to cover
                                  all the site

sam        04/02/20 7:29 am  tim, myself, and scott p.

sam        04/02/20 7:30 am  what i'd like to do is go through the
                                  spreadsheet..and enter a column as to the
                                  different scenarios.. and what we want.. and
                                  send that to everyone .. and assign the sites
                                  to everyone's names

bryant     04/02/20 7:30 am  I think it's just a matter of trying to go
                                  through all of the special cases one by one
                                  and get them to come down.  Once we do that we
                                  probably want to deal witht he bulk sites in
                                  batch.

sam        04/02/20 7:30 am  so everyone has a global idea of everything

bryant     04/02/20 7:31 am  Right now our focus is simply to reduce money
                                  and as a secondary, get nonworkable clauses
                                  off of the contracts.

sam        04/02/20 7:31 am  ya

sam        04/02/20 7:36 am  $1 cpm per daily unique  = $50k/month in
                                  webmaster expenses

sam        04/02/20 7:36 am  our goal is 150k/month webmaster expenses tops

sam        04/02/20 7:36 am  so we could go as high as $3cpm

sam        04/02/20 7:37 am  per daily unique

sam        04/02/20 7:37 am  and if there are some higher than $3cpm.. than
                                  we'd have to get some lower

sam        04/02/20 7:38 am  2 mil daily visitors * 30 days = 60 mil/month
                                  * $2.5 cpm = 150k

sam        04/02/20 7:38 am  hows that sound

sam        04/02/20 7:38 am  thats at least logical

sam        04/02/20 7:38 am  and can work with our model.. otherwise we
                                  wont be able to make payments on a consistent
                                  basis

bryant     04/02/20 7:38 am  We're better served just to deal with everyone
                                  all at once in that case.



sam        04/02/20 7:39 am  you know if we deal w/ everyone @ once, we're
                                  likely to risk class action.. and news posts

sam        04/02/20 7:39 am  if we send mass emails

sam        04/02/20 7:39 am  dont u think

sam        04/02/20 7:39 am  also, we have to remind them that 100k/month
                                  is used for servers, bandwidth, technical
                                  resources

sam        04/02/20 7:40 am  so theoreticlly, we're allocating 250k for
                                  them

bryant     04/02/20 7:40 am  Raises the risk, certainly.  They communicate
                                  enough with one another though that there may
                                  be a greater risk to take that to them
                                  individually and they figure out that it's
                                  everyone.  

bryant     04/02/20 7:40 am  Thinking about it though, mass emails are a
                                  bad idea.

sam        04/02/20 7:40 am  ya i wouldnt risk mass emails.. eeee

sam        04/02/20 7:40 am  however,

sam        04/02/20 7:40 am  if we have a good plan and stuff

sam        04/02/20 7:41 am  we can immobilize like 10 of our people

sam        04/02/20 7:41 am  and divide up the webmater list

sam        04/02/20 7:41 am  with the same consistent plan

sam        04/02/20 7:41 am  so they dont have to negotiate
#33 by "Buccaneer"
2001-03-09 17:07:39
buccaneer@planetcrap.com http://www.konsumsklave.de
Great work, Joker!
:/
#34 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:07:49
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
sam        04/02/20 7:41 am  but rather persuade

bryant     04/02/20 7:41 am  What this means of course is that we'll lose
                                  the good sites and keep the weak ones.

bryant     04/02/20 7:41 am  Strong sites will go off and test the market.
                                  May well come back, but they'll go.

sam        04/02/20 7:41 am  we'll make exceptions for strong site

sam        04/02/20 7:42 am  and try to get the weak sites to below 2.5

sam        04/02/20 7:42 am  so we average 2.5

sam        04/02/20 7:43 am  that means like megagames makes 15k instead of
                                  30k

sam        04/02/20 7:43 am  not too bad

bryant     04/02/20 7:44 am  Here's an example of where our problems will
                                  be.  Babynames has 759k viewers. Even at a
                                  10cpmU it's less than 1/2 where she is now.
                                  Put her at a 5 it's $3795.00, at 3 it's
                                  $2277.00.

sam        04/02/20 7:44 am  yeah i see .. she was an expensive site huh

sam        04/02/20 7:44 am  well, we might have to make an exception for
                                  her

bryant     04/02/20 7:45 am  Lemme go through and plug that model in to see
                                  where it works nicely and where we'll have
                                  snags.

bryant     04/02/20 7:45 am  I've got all the data in front of me.

sam        04/02/20 7:45 am  perfect.. im going through the stuff too..
                                  just thinking

bryant     04/02/20 7:45 am  Only thing I'm missing is what we pay some of
                                  these guys now.  But hopefully Bill will have
                                  something on that this week.

sam        04/02/20 7:46 am  i can help u w/ that if u need somehting
                                  

sam        04/02/20 7:46 am  did you ever get the esimtation from bill that
                                  was sent like 2-3 weeks ago

bryant     04/02/20 7:46 am  For Megagames it would actually be a good
                                  model.  6MM viewers would be $15k as you said.
                                   That's not too bad.

sam        04/02/20 7:50 am  works good for altavista too

sam        04/02/20 8:06 am  did you get the email concerning astalavista

sam        04/02/20 8:14 am  guess what

sam        04/02/20 8:14 am  i got someone to bite already

sam        04/02/20 8:15 am  on $2 cpm

sam        04/02/20 8:15 am  big site

sam        04/02/20 8:36 am  should we make the monthly payout variable?
                                  meaning that up or down, $1 to $2.5 cpm on the
                                  dialy uniques.. or should we keep the same
                                  scale

sam        04/02/20 8:36 am  and have a max

sam        04/02/20 8:45 am  Moreaulf: (4:43 PM) Hi sam.
                                  It's going allright. the $500 saved me for
                                  this month.
                                  
                                  Exitpopup running on the new datacenter
                                  
                                  Gamepages under move now.
                                  
                                  How's it going for you? eFront?
                                  sam: (4:43 PM) its going okay.. really
                                  difficult.. ad market is very bad.. even
                                  valueclick is not taking more clients
                                  sam: (4:44 PM) we probably have to renegotiate
                                  everyones contracts..or we wont be able to
                                  survive
                                  sam: (4:44 PM) :/
                                  Moreaulf: (4:44 PM) I hear it from all over :(
                                  Feels like it's no use not even having banners
                                  on the pages somehow. It cost more than it
                                  gives to try get
                                  

sam        04/02/20 8:46 am  [this is the way im approaching things.. and
                                  lot of sympathetic ears out there]

sam        05/02/20 12:48 am any thoughts on the email? i was going to add
                                  ac ouple more things but wanted to run it by u

sam        05/02/20 1:49 am  iBLAMEj00: (9:45 AM) I got 0.63% CTR with cj
                                  and .52% with valueclick.
                                  iBLAMEj00: (9:45 AM) How about just make it
                                  required that ads can't be placed at the top
                                  or the bottom.
                                  

sam        05/02/20 1:53 am  oops to the wrong person

sam        05/02/20 7:04 am  were u able to talk to brian this weekend

bryant     05/02/20 7:07 am  No, he hasn't been on.  I sent him some ICQs
                                  and emails, but not sure if he got them.
                                  Going to see if I can track him down tomorrow
                                  so I can go over strategem at least on the
                                  sites he has.

sam        05/02/20 7:08 am  ive done 3 sites already.. easy

sam        05/02/20 7:09 am  one of the webmasters wants to work for us
                                  $200/month or so.. so i asked him to
                                  renegotiate .. and ill give him some euroipean
                                  sites.. he's excited..then afterwards, he'll
                                  work for g3 and deploy stuff..anything.. just
                                  go in the website code and change stuff when
                                  we need to

sam        05/02/20 7:10 am  i just need to get a contract ready i think

sam        05/02/20 7:21 am  we're very close on megagames.. tim & i are
                                  working.. he agreed to $ /unique.. just
                                  getting the price lower.
                                  
                                  mame.dk would probably agree to it too

sam        05/02/20 12:11 pm we have a sweet proposal we're working out w/
                                  harsha:)

sam        06/02/20 12:20 pm please give me a recap of todays negotiations

sam        06/02/20 12:47 pm but anyways, to recap, here's how i want the
                                  contracts to incorporate the backpay:
                                  1. Retroactive with the new schedule until
                                  they got paid last.
                                  2. Take it as lump sum thats payable @ the end
                                  of their contract.
                                  
                                  If they doint agree to new payment terms, here
                                  are the options:
                                  1. They can walk -- no hard feelings; we're
                                  even.  We'll provide another month or so of
                                  free hosting.
                                  2. They can take the banners and we do the
                                  non-banner creatives + free hosting
                                  
                                  I want all contracts to began @ no later than
                                  feb 1.  
                                  Basically, tell them that if we don't get
                                  everyone's cooperationg, we might have to file
                                  Chapter 11 because the market has changed and
                                  we cant be in business if our expenses are
                                  higher than what banner revrenues make.  It's
                                  worse out there then they think; even
                                  valueclick wont accept new customers.

sam        08/02/20 6:48 am  update?

bryant     08/02/20 9:20 am  Beyond the numbers I told you yesterday,
                                  AthlonOC wants out, theSeek, Riva3D, Classical
                                  and Astalavista seem to want to stay.

sam        08/02/20 10:03 am we'll  accomodate athoc most likely

sam        08/02/20 1:14 pm  i had a few q's toi ask u about the addendum

sam        08/02/20 1:14 pm  almost done getting them drafted

sam        09/02/20 6:42 pm  hey

sam        10/02/20 1:14 am  are you there? btw, almost done w/ the
                                  addendum.. need to have it proofed.
                                  
                                  
                                  Will, we have another deal structure that came
                                  up.. you might want to take a look at it.
                                  

bryant     10/02/20 1:35 am  Yeah, where is it?

sam        10/02/20 1:49 am  basically, the deal came up w/ freeskills.com
                                  been working with andy

sam        10/02/20 1:49 am  they had 100k and they were just going to ride
                                  it out and not budge

sam        10/02/20 1:52 am  after a long battle, this was agreed to:

sam        10/02/20 1:52 am  * no ipo clause, no returning the site, no $$
                                  back to them, no monthly  payments to them,
                                  they dont work on the site anymore
                                  * we give them a % of the site's revenue as
                                  royalty forever (5%)

sam        10/02/20 1:53 am  what do u think of that structure :)

bryant     10/02/20 1:53 am  I always get a little fidgety around the term
                                  "forever" in contracts, but other than that
                                  it's a pretty sweet deal.

sam        10/02/20 1:54 am  i agree.. but its like software royalty or
                                  something.. perpetualy royalty

sam        10/02/20 1:54 am  the sites that want to walk, maybe we dcan
                                  throw this at them

bryant     10/02/20 1:54 am  Yeah, I agree.  I think it's a great deal.

bryant     10/02/20 1:54 am  Heh, for us anyway.

sam        10/02/20 1:55 am  i know.. andy and i were fighting with them
                                  all morning.. theyre making my bronchtitis
                                  worse:)

sam        10/02/20 1:55 am  and they suggested it.. and i told andy
                                  great.. pounce on it right away :)

bryant     10/02/20 1:55 am  Heh, a little slice of my life there!
                                  Bronchitis is fun stuff.

sam        10/02/20 1:55 am  its getting really bad.. hard to breathe.. and
                                  lot of coughing

sam        10/02/20 1:56 am  did yours ever go away?

bryant     10/02/20 1:56 am  Yeah, I basically perpetually have it.

sam        10/02/20 1:56 am  oh really

bryant     10/02/20 1:56 am  It goes away here and there if I take antis,
                                  but only for a week or so.  Then it's back.

sam        10/02/20 1:56 am  i havent seen a doctor yet.. maybe i should

bryant     10/02/20 1:56 am  Oh yeah.

bryant     10/02/20 1:57 am  I don't mess around with that stuff anymore.
                                  All my problems started with the flu.   I blew
                                  it off and it snowballed. =)

bryant     10/02/20 1:57 am  Steam helps a lot.  So if it gets real bad
                                  take a hot shower or bath.

sam        10/02/20 1:58 am  i just did .. i feel better.. btw, i think it
                                  bronchtitis.. whats the symptoms

bryant     10/02/20 1:59 am  You can feel it down in your chest/bronchial
                                  tubes.  It almost feels like you've sucked a
                                  little water down, esp when you take a deep
                                  breath.  Lots of coughing, difficulty
                                  breathing, sometimes you lose you voice a bit.

bryant     10/02/20 1:59 am  You can either be coughing stuff up or not.

bryant     10/02/20 2:00 am  Doc will put you on Amoxicillin or Biaxin or
                                  something.  Should clear up in a few days.

bryant     10/02/20 2:00 am  They don't have the first clue how to beat
                                  mine.  Mostly because they have no idea what's
                                  causing it.

sam        10/02/20 2:01 am  that sounds like mine.. i cant develop it in 2
                                  days can i ?

sam        10/02/20 2:02 am  i should go to the doc today

bryant     10/02/20 2:02 am  Only real danger is bronchitis turning into
                                  pneumonia.  Other than that it's just a pain
                                  in the ass.

sam        10/02/20 2:02 am  after i get u the addendum:)

bryant     10/02/20 2:02 am  Oh sure - any cold or flu can turn quickly
                                  into it.

bryant     10/02/20 2:02 am  Tons of water helps too.

bryant     10/02/20 2:02 am  Heh.

sam        10/02/20 2:03 am  my heater in the apartment sux too

sam        10/02/20 2:03 am  when its on i cant breathe

sam        10/02/20 2:04 am  maybe it has bacteria?

bryant     10/02/20 2:04 am  What kind of heater?

bryant     10/02/20 2:04 am  Is it also a humidifier of any sort?

sam        10/02/20 2:06 am  no.. just central heating

bryant     10/02/20 2:08 am  Hard to say.  Could just be the dry air
                                  though.  I can't go to the mall, movie
                                  theaters or anything like that - dry air shuts
                                  me down instantly.  Last movie I saw was
                                  Remember the Titans, literally took me a week
                                  to recover.  

bryant     10/02/20 2:08 am  Make sure to tell the doc about the breathing
                                  problems with the hot air on.

sam        10/02/20 2:08 am  really? wow.. and i was actually enjoying
                                  benig sick so i get to stay home for the first
                                  time in forever

bryant     10/02/20 2:09 am  Heh

sam        10/02/20 2:09 am  i should really take care of this thing then

sam        10/02/20 2:09 am  secretly, i was wishing it got worse:)

bryant     10/02/20 2:09 am  Heh

bryant     10/02/20 2:09 am  As long as it doesn't stick around forever
                                  that wouldn't be too bad.

sam        10/02/20 2:10 am  ok i msged drazen to pick me up to go to the
                                  doctor.. let me get the addendum over.  any
                                  other updates on the other sies?

bryant     10/02/20 2:10 am  Nothing huge, most everyone is willing to stay
                                  happily.  I'm trying to knock out BabyNames
                                  and maybe SomethingAwful today.

sam        10/02/20 2:10 am  oh btw, jerry was telling me SA wants to work
                                  for us

sam        10/02/20 2:11 am  and i told jerry then Will can do a two in one
                                  deal

sam        10/02/20 2:11 am  make him an employee and his site comes along

bryant     10/02/20 2:11 am  Asta is willing to take a $ cut, have to deal
                                  with him over email - phone call didn't go so
                                  well.  Neither one of us knew what the other
                                  was saying.

sam        10/02/20 2:11 am  and jerry said it would take some doing but it
                                  could be doable

sam        10/02/20 2:11 am  hehe

bryant     10/02/20 2:11 am  OK, I'll put some thought into how that might
                                  work with SA.

sam        10/02/20 2:11 am  i definitely wnanna keep asta.. great unique

sam        10/02/20 2:11 am  i thought about this for SA:

bryant     10/02/20 2:11 am  Yeah, he seems to want to stay.

sam        10/02/20 2:12 am  25k uniques * 30 = 750k * 2.5cpm = 1600
                                  add another 2000 or something for salary
                                  
                                  3600/month or even 4000/month = 48k/year w/
                                  benefits

sam        10/02/20 2:12 am  that way we can pay him more than what we'd
                                  pay him normally

bryant     10/02/20 2:12 am  Do we have an idea of what he would be doing?
                                  

sam        10/02/20 2:13 am  ill fwd uy the msg from jerry
                                  

bryant     10/02/20 2:13 am  ok cool.

sam        10/02/20 2:30 am  does that give u an idea of how jerry wants to
                                  use him? im not sure if it will work myself..
                                  

sam        10/02/20 2:30 am  but hey we reduce the $

sam        10/02/20 2:31 am  are u sure his contract says 2cpm?

bryant     10/02/20 2:31 am  It doesn't say that, but it works out to that.

sam        10/02/20 2:32 am  6 million pageviews and 12k/month?

bryant     10/02/20 2:32 am  8m/16k a month I think.

sam        10/02/20 8:43 am  hey came back form the doc..long line..they
                                  gave me medicine..

sam        10/02/20 8:43 am  coughs died down a little bit:) just been on
                                  the phone collectinng, etc.

sam        10/02/20 8:44 am  ill send u the addendum soonnn.. :) btw, scott
                                  p. is working on 4-5 deals (ad contracts) and
                                  maybe you can take the sites assigned to him
                                  and divide it between u and brian if you guys
                                  are on pace alrady
#35 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:08:45
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
sam        10/02/20 8:44 am  since u guys are on pace..and we dont want to
                                  teach him about all this in a short time..and
                                  i'd rather he concentrate on revenues..and u
                                  guys are making good progress alread

bryant     10/02/20 8:45 am  Yeah, no problem at all.  Was he on the
                                  spreadsheet you sent or was it just Brian,
                                  myself you and Tim?

sam        10/02/20 8:45 am  he was on it too

bryant     10/02/20 8:45 am  OK cool.  I'll coordinate with Brian and we'll
                                  split those up.  Revenues are good.

sam        10/02/20 8:46 am  yeah.. im having him pursue ad networks and
                                  about.com type of deads.. he's having good
                                  luck with b2bworks.com, engageb2b, and
                                  work.com.. the hot deals

sam        10/02/20 8:48 am  Bman: (4:46 PM) I have been swapping calls
                                  with a lawyer type who wants to help us settle
                                  our payables.  I want to offer 10% to akamai,
                                  alexa, global center, maybe cais and a couple
                                  others.
                                  sam: (4:47 PM) how much doe he want?
                                  sam: (4:48 PM) btw, Will Bryant seems very
                                  good at that kind of stuff.. maybe he can do
                                  that, if the lawyer wants too much
                                  
                                  [you might want to talk to Bill S. to see if
                                  its something u can do :]

bryant     10/02/20 8:50 am  Will do.  Might be worth trying in-house
                                  before we pay an atty.

sam        10/02/20 10:54 am can u give me joanna's icq

sam        10/02/20 10:54 am (im @ home)

sam        13/02/20 8:26 am  will i added lkanguage to cancel
                                  ipo-outclauses

sam        13/02/20 8:27 am  did you see that

bryant     13/02/20 8:28 am  Yeah, it looks good - although we may have to
                                  doctor that a bit for some people.  BabyNames
                                  for example wants to retain an out in the
                                  event of a BK.

sam        13/02/20 8:28 am  yup.. no prob

bryant     13/02/20 8:28 am  Like the clause though - for the most part it
                                  means less doctoring on the individual deals.

sam        13/02/20 8:28 am  can u handle that (doctoring it up for special
                                  cases)
                                  also, we want to stricken out all the IPO
                                  money

bryant     13/02/20 8:29 am  Certainly.

sam        13/02/20 8:30 am  im trying to get a hold of the about guys..
                                  we're going to accept their last offer @ 215k
                                  (they owe us double that).. cuz we dont have
                                  time.. and payroll is due:)

sam        13/02/20 8:30 am  so we should be getting that out soon as well

bryant     14/02/20 8:24 am  I've got something on SA - want me to run
                                  through it real quick?

sam        14/02/20 8:24 am  yes

bryant     14/02/20 8:25 am  We can have him FT plus have him continue
                                  working on SA (both during and more outside
                                  the normal workday) for a little less than $6k
                                  a month.

bryant     14/02/20 8:25 am  It basically works out to $24k a year for the
                                  site, $45k a year for the employment.

bryant     14/02/20 8:25 am  But it would all be rolled in together
                                  obviously, so figure $5750 a month.

sam        14/02/20 8:26 am  well what if he doesnt work out as an
                                  employeee.. meaning we're taking a chance that
                                  he will.  so i'd prefer to do 2 agreements..
                                  one for website
                                  
                                  and one for employment

bryant     14/02/20 8:27 am  We can do that too.  24k and 45k.  We might
                                  have to put some extra protections in for him
                                  that way (in case he gets fired, etc.).  As is
                                  he's coming down from 16k to 5.75k, if we
                                  fired him he'd go from 16k to 2k.

bryant     14/02/20 8:28 am  But I think we can do that.

sam        14/02/20 8:29 am  thats still 70k/year.. did you try to pitch
                                  the 48k.. what did he say to that

bryant     14/02/20 8:29 am  He's highly motivated to try and help the
                                  company, be a liaison with the webmasters,
                                  help effect positive improvements across the
                                  board, etc.  So my feeling is he's going to be
                                  a real asset.

bryant     14/02/20 8:29 am  He feels that's 24k a year to work FT or close
                                  to FT and he can't justify that.

sam        14/02/20 8:30 am  i just want to make sure we can pay ppl.. im
                                  cutting back on a few more ppl this week

sam        14/02/20 8:31 am  i had let Randy, one of the sales guys go
                                  yesterday.. but he begged to be stayed..saying
                                  he has 2 i/os coming in.. he did get one done
                                  today...so he has short stay

sam        14/02/20 8:31 am  our other webmaster relations people dont
                                  really make 45k.. for example, alex makes
                                  24k/year.. and pinocho less.  
                                  
                                  how about this.  2$ cpm on uniques on his site
                                  + 35k/year job

sam        14/02/20 8:32 am  which is the range we're paying webmaster
                                  relations people

sam        14/02/20 8:32 am  and we're doing that as a favor to put more $
                                  in his pocket

sam        14/02/20 8:32 am  not just as a job

bryant     14/02/20 8:32 am  Well, it's all to be determined really, but I
                                  see him as more than just webmaster relations.

sam        14/02/20 8:32 am  everyone else we're not offering this

sam        14/02/20 8:33 am  he could very well be.. and if he does great
                                  for us, then he woulc get a raise like
                                  everyone else

sam        14/02/20 8:33 am  g3 started out at 36k and got a raise

bryant     14/02/20 8:33 am  I know Jerry met with him, I don't know what
                                  they discussed in terms of exactly what he'd
                                  be doing.

bryant     14/02/20 8:34 am  Hmm, how about 35k for a trial period then,
                                  you can define certain benchmarks, if he meets
                                  them he goes to 40, 45 and perhaps 50.

bryant     14/02/20 8:34 am  That way he's at 35 now, but he has a vested
                                  interest and opportunity to climb higher based
                                  upon metrics you define?

sam        14/02/20 8:34 am  well, the benchmarks are all subjective.. its
                                  obvious when someone becomes an asset.. for
                                  example, g3

sam        14/02/20 8:34 am  he'll be entitled to raises.. and we have a
                                  precedence for giving people raises if they
                                  really help increase our bottom line in many
                                  areas

sam        14/02/20 8:35 am  i dont want to set a false expectations where
                                  he'll feel entitled to it.. then he'll be
                                  unhappy.. based on subjective evaluation

bryant     14/02/20 8:36 am  Yeah, different people different skillsets.  I
                                  can only speak so intelligently about the
                                  skillsets of g3 and Rich.  I do know that
                                  where g3 lacks is interpersonal
                                  relations/people skills and that's an area
                                  Rich excels in.  They both have other skills
                                  with positives and negatives each.  g3 for
                                  example is a great organizer, Rich may not be
                                  - don't know.

bryant     14/02/20 8:37 am  Basically he's come to these figures based
                                  upon what he feels he needs to sustain his
                                  quality of life and be able to work towards a
                                  gradual improvement.

bryant     14/02/20 8:37 am  I'll take 24k/35k to him, just want you to
                                  have the big picture as he relayed it to me.
                                  =)

bryant     14/02/20 8:38 am  I see your point though, the milestones
                                  concept for raises seems a little bit like a
                                  minefield for both sides in that light.

sam        14/02/20 8:43 am  i just called jerry

sam        14/02/20 8:44 am  to see what he used him for

bryant     14/02/20 8:44 am  ok cool - what did he say?

sam        14/02/20 8:44 am  really, its's not clear to me if we have any
                                  more campaigns to deploy

sam        14/02/20 8:44 am  and he said it was mostly for the website.. i
                                  asked expliclity what rich would be used for

sam        14/02/20 8:45 am  and he wasnt really sure.. do we need more
                                  expenses in webmaster communications? i dont
                                  know

sam        14/02/20 8:45 am  i asked him if we can use him in revenues in
                                  anyway.. he wasnt sure

sam        14/02/20 8:46 am  however, all that being said.. if you do :
                                  $2cpm on total daily uniques
                                  + employment contract for 35k/year
                                  
                                  we can do it

bryant     14/02/20 8:46 am  Yeah, I see the point.  I guess the underlying
                                  issue is what do we have to pay to keep him.
                                  Clearly it's not $2k.  So which makes more
                                  sense for us, seeing what we can pay him as a
                                  webmaster at a min, or going this route to
                                  keep him plus have him in-house for work.

sam        14/02/20 8:46 am  i dont doubt you that he has skills

sam        14/02/20 8:46 am  im just trying to find out what exactly he'd
                                  be doing

sam        14/02/20 8:47 am  and who he'd be reporting to etc.

sam        14/02/20 8:47 am  so try that out.. its not so far from your
                                  offer

bryant     14/02/20 8:47 am  Oh, I'm not pitching Rich Kyanka here.  Jerry
                                  met with him and told me he's interested in
                                  seeing if hiring him is a way to go.

sam        14/02/20 8:48 am  and tell rich that while he doesnt think it's
                                  fulltime pay

sam        14/02/20 8:48 am  we're doing this as a favor to supplement and
                                  co-opt him

sam        14/02/20 8:48 am  we're not doing this for the other webmasters

bryant     14/02/20 8:48 am  I have.  It's been my underlying theme.

sam        14/02/20 8:48 am  as a stand-alone candidate, we probably
                                  wouldnt hire him.. we'reputting more resources
                                  in sales

sam        14/02/20 8:49 am  keep trying.. im sure you can get him down
                                  more

bryant     14/02/20 8:50 am  I am too.

sam        14/02/20 8:51 am  Bill is making a list of other people for you
                                  to neogitate w/ after the websites are done.  
                                  
                                  I think this is your calling card:)

bryant     14/02/20 8:51 am  np.  Are those the people we owe?

sam        14/02/20 8:51 am  yep

bryant     14/02/20 9:04 am  If we can be creative with getting back pay to
                                  him, I can get him at 24/35

sam        14/02/20 9:04 am  did you talk to him?

bryant     14/02/20 9:04 am  Yep.

sam        14/02/20 9:04 am  let me think about it.

bryant     14/02/20 9:05 am  ok

bryant     14/02/20 9:05 am  Back pay issue comes from upcoming tax
                                  troubles.  All his $ was 1099 last year and he
                                  expects to owe close to or over $10k.  He has
                                  0.

sam        14/02/20 9:06 am  but we havent paid him anything for last year

sam        14/02/20 9:07 am  and he said he hasnt been paid from anyone
                                  else either

bryant     14/02/20 9:07 am  No, but other companies did at least early on.

sam        14/02/20 9:11 am  for him to owe 10k.. he should've earned @
                                  least 40k:)

bryant     14/02/20 9:11 am  2nd half of last year he got almost nothing
                                  because of the market problems and companies
                                  missing or failing to make payments.  First
                                  half he took in close to $40k on 1099s.

sam        14/02/20 9:12 am  okay

sam        14/02/20 9:12 am  let me think bout the backpay stuff

sam        14/02/20 9:12 am  i told bill to send me all the $ stuff on all
                                  the websites..and im going to compile backpay
                                  info for everyone tonight

bryant     14/02/20 9:12 am  Did that last ICQ go through?  It's acting
                                  really screwy on me and doesn't show it in our
                                  history.

bryant     14/02/20 9:13 am  The $40k first half 2k one..

sam        14/02/20 9:14 am  yes it did

bryant     14/02/20 9:14 am  mame.dk is getting restless btw.  We prepared
                                  to let them go?  Or how do you want to handle
                                  that?  We're looking for around $4k a month,
                                  they're looking for around $24k/mo.  They're
                                  hosting their own site.  They claim they can't
                                  live with $4k.  etc. etc.

bryant     14/02/20 9:15 am  I've let them stew a bit and now they seem a
                                  little more anxious.  How do you want to play
                                  it?

bryant     14/02/20 9:16 am  I haven't turned aggressive on them yet but
                                  that was my next play.  Just wanted to touch
                                  base to see where they stand on your
                                  importance perception.

sam        14/02/20 9:16 am  how many daily uniques do they have

bryant     14/02/20 9:16 am  Having Jo pull that, one sec.

sam        14/02/20 9:16 am  not important really..but it is a big site..
                                  24k is way too much for that though

sam        14/02/20 9:16 am  we've never paid them 24k

sam        14/02/20 9:17 am  all our past payments to them have been less
                                  than 10k

sam        14/02/20 9:17 am  traffic increase doesnt mean we can monetirze
                                  it..

bryant     14/02/20 9:18 am  60983 unique viewers yesterday.

sam        14/02/20 9:18 am  60*30= say 2 mil .. times even 2.5 = 5k....
                                  hmmm

sam        14/02/20 9:18 am  tell them to test the market out ?

sam        14/02/20 9:18 am  brian is using that ploy

sam        14/02/20 9:19 am  tell them the market is zero out there.. tell
                                  them to test it out for a few days

bryant     14/02/20 9:19 am  It's hard to think about coming up on an
                                  emulation site.  If they don't want to play in
                                  the real world we might think about some of
                                  the less friendly options.

bryant     14/02/20 9:19 am  Yeah, I've used that here and there too.  Let
                                  me see what they have to say tomorrow and
                                  we'll play it from there.

sam        14/02/20 9:19 am  yeah.. the uniques are nice..but we cant
                                  really pay more than 5k.. we're prepared to
                                  let them walk, yes.

bryant     14/02/20 9:20 am  How much are you comfortable paying if they
                                  control their banner inventory?

sam        14/02/20 9:21 am  boy thats tough.. since we're not hosting
                                  either.. i really dont know where their
                                  tfaffic is coming fro

sam        14/02/20 9:21 am  we cant monetize the non-usa traffic in direct
                                  marketing yet

bryant     14/02/20 9:21 am  Yeah, it's an odd one.

sam        14/02/20 9:21 am  us companies dont want foreign addresses or
                                  names for d.m.

bryant     14/02/20 9:21 am  OK, that actually makes it easier.  Lemme see
                                  how they respond tomorrow.

sam        14/02/20 9:21 am  im not sure if thats an option here

sam        15/02/20 7:51 am  i got all the info from bill finally.. so i
                                  should try to get this backpay stuff out to u
                                  guys today (late late)

bryant     15/02/20 8:19 am  OK great.  Any further thought on the SA
                                  stuff?

sam        15/02/20 8:19 am  illcalculate the backpay and think about it at
                                  the same time
                                  
                                  

sam        15/02/20 8:19 am  http://www.efront.com/gfx/index3.shtml
                                  
                                  fyi, kinda what we'll be launchng shortly

sam        15/02/20 8:23 am  i have a mockup for u.. on how all the sites
                                  will look like
                                  
                                  (and so classical.net too)

sam        16/02/20 7:13 am  u there?

bryant     16/02/20 7:15 am  Yep

sam        16/02/20 7:16 am  can u talk to brian.. :

bryant     16/02/20 7:16 am  Brian Welch?

sam        16/02/20 7:17 am  ok check ur email.. see if u can think of a
                                  good solution.. and then talk to brian

bryant     16/02/20 7:19 am  Hmm, okay, I'll bring it up this evening when
                                  I talk with him.

bryant     16/02/20 7:58 am  Brian is covered.

sam        16/02/20 7:58 am  thanks

bryant     16/02/20 7:58 am  mp

bryant     16/02/20 7:58 am  np that is

sam        17/02/20 7:45 am  spreadsheet pretty helpful?

sam        17/02/20 8:28 am  kevin tells me Rich/SA also knows html.. so
                                  that's a +

sam        19/02/20 2:20 am  when u're around.. lets talk about SA

bryant     19/02/20 4:10 am  Have a few mins now if you want to talk SA.

sam        20/02/20 1:42 am  hey i got your msg..whenever you're ready

sam        20/02/20 1:49 am  have you been deluged with people yet :)

bryant     20/02/20 1:51 am  Heh, it's started a little bit.  I expect it
                                  to reall snowball later this week.  That's
                                  good though.  They're motivated to come to us
                                  which makes the process easier to deal with.

bryant     20/02/20 1:51 am  So what are you thinking re: Rich?  I know
                                  html is a thought for what he'd be doing.

sam        20/02/20 1:52 am  the 35k/ 24k sounds good.. just thinking about
                                  the backpay.. let me look real quick

bryant     20/02/20 1:52 am  ok

sam        20/02/20 1:56 am  have you given any thoughts to what we should
                                  do with mpog?
                                  
                                  
                                  (jonathan was asking me)

bryant     20/02/20 1:57 am  I haven't to be honest.  I asked Jon to deal
                                  with it since from where I'm standing right
                                  now it feels like a conflict of interest.  So
                                  whatever you and he figure out.  =)

sam        20/02/20 1:58 am  im not really sure either.. :) i know u guys
                                  use the $ all for expenses and dont really
                                  make anything off of it..
                                  
                                  ill talk to him.. i dont think its a conflict
                                  of interest really.. we're both trying to
                                  figure out how to get the most value from it
                                  ..its not like either one of us makes $ from
                                  it :)

sam        20/02/20 2:16 am  btw, on the chinese sites, i'd pay no more
                                  than $1 cpm on the uniques..

sam        20/02/20 2:16 am  linda is online and msging me.. ill tell her
                                  to talk to you for central coordination

sam        20/02/20 2:16 am  do you think we could get away with 50 cent
                                  cpm for the chinese sites?

sam        20/02/20 2:20 am  lotus: (10:18 AM) ok, will we pay them today
                                  or tomorrow? so I can start negotiation for
                                  the new contract then
                                  sam: (10:19 AM) the funds wont be released
                                  until the new contracts are signed.. the new
                                  contract also has it in there the amount to be
                                  paid on signing for the 19th payment
                                  
                                  [if you could give her a hand or two..]

sam        20/02/20 2:22 am  lotus: (10:21 AM) but I don't have details
                                  about the new contract site by site
                                  

sam        20/02/20 3:09 am  btw, SA's stats are wrong.. weird.. he didnt
                                  do 7 mil imps in december.
                                  
                                  trying to come up with a figure right out and
                                  we'll make a deal wioth him

sam        20/02/20 4:31 am  what about this offer for SA:
                                  
                                  Make the contract retroactive.
                                  11/9 start date
                                  24k/year website
                                  2500 already  paid
                                  3500 balance (to be paid immediately) + 2k
                                  (feb) + 2k (march) should take care of his
                                  taxes
                                  35k/year employee [we're not offering this to
                                  anyone else.. ]
                                  
                                  
                                  

bryant     20/02/20 4:32 am  You mean make the site $ retroactive but start
                                  the salary now?

sam        20/02/20 4:32 am  yes

sam        20/02/20 4:34 am  basically null the previous contract with the
                                  new contract, balance due immediately +
                                  35k/year job

bryant     20/02/20 4:34 am  Right, np, lemme see if I can track him down.

sam        20/02/20 4:34 am  do u think he'll go for it:)

bryant     20/02/20 4:34 am  Hard to tell.  I think probably.

sam        20/02/20 4:35 am  btw, that spreadhseet is wrong.. so dont quote
                                  him the backpay from that.. the decemeber
                                  estimate was 5.7 mil pv for him, not 7

sam        20/02/20 4:35 am  anyways, lets try that

sam        20/02/20 4:35 am  ive been talking to linda past hour or two..
                                  if u could fwd her the addendum, etc. i'd
                                  appreciate it

bryant     20/02/20 4:35 am  Will do.

sam        20/02/20 4:42 am  also fyi, brian is telling me that the biggest
                                  issue thus far has been backpay@ the end of
                                  their contracts.  i offered him two solutions:
                                  1. make the contract retroactive and we'll pay
                                  in 60 days (because the payable is reduced) or
                                  2. make the terms either less than $2 cpm AND
                                  we'll pay 8.1% of the backpay everymonth for a
                                  year.
                                  
                                  either way, we have a limited amount of funds
                                  to work with and that's the reality
                                  
                                  in case you run into the same issues.

bryant     20/02/20 4:49 am  ok great.

bryant     20/02/20 5:08 am  He would rather see the back money simply
                                  split up into monthly payments over 12-18
                                  months.

sam        20/02/20 5:10 am  we can do that if he takes  a $2cpm on daily
                                  uniques on his site + 1k/month for 18 months
                                  
                                  what do you think of that?

bryant     20/02/20 5:10 am  Instead of employment, or with?

sam        20/02/20 5:10 am  with

bryant     20/02/20 5:11 am  2 instead of 2.5 - is that the difference?

sam        20/02/20 5:11 am  is that toorich?

sam        20/02/20 5:12 am  ya..thats the diff

sam        20/02/20 5:13 am  or 1k/mo for 12 months.. because we are paying
                                  it sooner

sam        20/02/20 5:13 am  than @ the end of the contract

sam        20/02/20 5:13 am  + he gets employment

sam        20/02/20 5:13 am  and allows us to actually pay it because
                                  reduces our cashflow

bryant     20/02/20 5:42 am  Rich will drop to 2.0cpmU if we will pay him
                                  $1k a month of his total back pay every month
                                  until it's complete.

bryant     20/02/20 5:42 am  We're basically out of dancing room with him.
                                  So let me know if that works for you.

sam        20/02/20 5:58 am  do you have a copy of his contract  i can look
                                  @?  i want to get reports run to figure out
                                  his back pay per the contract

sam        20/02/20 5:58 am  but that could be do-able

sam        20/02/20 5:59 am  even a non-signed electornic copy will do if u
                                  can email me

sam        20/02/20 6:08 am  okay.. looks like his total balance is 27,762
                                  
                                  so, to recap:
                                  
                                  35k/year salary f/t job employment agreement
                                  (at-will like everyone else, but you dont have
                                  to tell him that)
                                  
                                  +
                                  
                                  2cpmU (looks like 1500/month)
                                  
                                  + 1000/mo until the backpay is met
                                  
                                  thats the best we can do right?

bryant     20/02/20 6:11 am  Yep.

sam        20/02/20 6:11 am  ok get it done

bryant     20/02/20 6:14 am  So how much do you want to give him tomorrow?
                                  $2,500 as listed on the Excel sheet.  He says
                                  he has to have something to cover his rent.

sam        20/02/20 6:15 am  in the addendum, you can get rid of the feb 19
                                  payment line and add 1k/month..and you can
                                  make all payments net 30

sam        20/02/20 6:15 am  oh oops

sam        20/02/20 6:15 am  give him february's payment tomorrow

sam        20/02/20 6:15 am  (the 1k

bryant     20/02/20 6:15 am  ok

sam        20/02/20 6:16 am  and have him report to g3, ie employment etc.
                                  have g3 take care of it w/ mike frue
                                  paperwork, etc.

sam        20/02/20 6:17 am  i'm going to use him and kevin bowen as a tag
                                  team to deploy all campaigns in the
                                  websites...they know html, they probably work
                                  good together

sam        20/02/20 6:17 am  and bypass the webmasters
#36 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:09:52
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
sam        20/02/20 6:33 am  Explaination of the new contracts and payments
                                  if they ask:
                                  
                                  We've been able to collect a majority of the
                                  A/R (but not all) that was owed to us.
                                  However, because we did not want to have this
                                  drag on or incur a legal battle that could
                                  take awhile to resolve, we made payment
                                  settlements with our past advertisers that
                                  resulted in not collecting 100% of what we
                                  delivered.  We have set aside the collections
                                  to pay the webmasters, however, because we
                                  only have a limited amounts of funds because
                                  of the collection settlement to pay out --  we
                                  must prioritize the payments to the websites
                                  that will stay part of eFront.  In the
                                  meanwhile, since banner markets have dried up,
                                  we are and have reengineered our model to go
                                  after performace based marketing including
                                  direct marketing.  Therefore, going forward,
                                  we need a new contract in place we can pay you
                                  on a stable basis without depending on
                                  banners.  We need to get this in place in
                                  order to pay you before going forward;
                                  otherwise there is no sense in going forward
                                  for any of us.  The moneys we earn from our
                                  new program will be the cash flow that drives
                                  future payments; hence the need to carry the
                                  backpay forward.

sam        20/02/20 6:36 am  i also gave your icq to Marc DSouza.  He's
                                  worked with me in the past on webmaster stuff
                                  and he can renegotiate contracts for you and
                                  talk to webmasters.. just give him a bunch of
                                  sites to work with ( his speciality is mp3
                                  sites )

bryant     20/02/20 6:36 am  ok great.

sam        20/02/20 7:12 am  also, you should probably let the webmasters
                                  know that they can get a tax break because
                                  this is asset purcahse, not ordinary income.
                                  that will save them $$ on taxes too
                                  
                                  this is a long-term capigal gains.. it will
                                  make their taxes better by as much as 50%
                                  (depending on their tax levels).. no SS and
                                  unemployment taxes either
                                  

sam        20/02/20 7:14 am  so a person making 50k/year from us vs ad
                                  networks can expect to save in taxes:
                                  
                                  ad networks: ss + income + state+ unemployment
                                  = 25k in taxes
                                  
                                  with us, probably 7500/year

bryant     20/02/20 7:40 am  What terms did you all agree upon with Harsha?

bryant     20/02/20 7:40 am  I know you and Tim were working on him, don't
                                  know where it was left.

sam        20/02/20 7:43 am  iBLAMEj00: (3:41 PM) The last time we talked I
                                  said that if he wants to play hardball, I'll
                                  need all his payment from exitfuel and
                                  bottomdollar since going with eFront =)
                                  

sam        20/02/20 7:44 am  iBLAMEj00: (3:43 PM) He keeps demanding
                                  $30k/month, that he needs that much.
                                  sam: (3:43 PM) did he go any l;ower?
                                  iBLAMEj00: (3:43 PM) Well, he kinda agreed to
                                  $10k/month and he gets the banner ads at one
                                  point.

bryant     20/02/20 7:44 am  OK.

sam        20/02/20 7:44 am  iBLAMEj00: (3:44 PM) But he couldn't accept
                                  not getting paid for back months.
                                  

sam        20/02/20 7:44 am  iBLAMEj00: (3:44 PM) And then he mumbled
                                  something about having to sell his Lexus.
                                  

sam        20/02/20 7:45 am  [i had told tim to offer harsha:
                                  1.cancel backpay
                                  2. he gets all banners on megagames for next 3
                                  months
                                  
                                  after that its a normal deal back to the
                                  contract..]
                                  
                                  he claimed he could make $1.30 cpm on
                                  banners.. so the 3 motnhs of 100 million
                                  banners a month would make him 300k enough to
                                  cover the backpay and our payments for the
                                  next 3 months

sam        20/02/20 7:46 am  and after 3 months, the 30k would be doable
                                  because it would be around cpmU at the rate
                                  his site is growing..
                                  
                                  currently, it's 5cpmU

sam        20/02/20 7:46 am  that was the last.. then the emails he's been
                                  sending

bryant     20/02/20 7:46 am  OK, I'll deal with him?

bryant     20/02/20 7:47 am  ignore the ?

sam        20/02/20 7:47 am  sounds good.. let me know if u need help ..
                                  ill be there..
                                  
                                  like we did with SA ..:)

sam        20/02/20 7:47 am  fyi, we also got Harsha a Visa to stay in the
                                  usa or something (jerry got him)

sam        21/02/20 10:24 am lowtax signed today.
                                  
                                  good job

sam        21/02/20 12:47 pm hey im going to san fran for business deals
                                  tomorrow.  marc D. is ready to work with you
                                  to try to get more people signed up, so let
                                  him help you

sam        21/02/20 12:47 pm let me know if you need anything or there are
                                  any issues

sam        21/02/20 12:47 pm if u need me tomorrow, my cell # is 714 227
                                  5975

bryant     21/02/20 12:48 pm OK will do.  Have some mp3 sites for Marc,
                                  I'll touch base with him tomorrow.

sam        21/02/20 12:50 pm Marc: (8:48 PM) ya that sounds good...
                                  roy was trying some stuff with vc
                                  today...don't know how that's going...
                                  webmasters are speading rumors that we filed
                                  for chapter 11 btw
                                  
                                  [probably supports your theory and stuff..its
                                  all good, helps us negotiate better]

bryant     21/02/20 12:51 pm vc?

sam        21/02/20 12:52 pm heh i dunno what he's talking about.. lemme
                                  ask him

sam        21/02/20 12:53 pm sam: (8:51 PM) what do u mean roy was talking
                                  to vc
                                  Marc: (8:52 PM) valueclick
                                  sam: (8:52 PM) btw, which wembasters were
                                  spreading rumor
                                  Marc: (8:52 PM) heard it from t-rex
                                  sam: (8:53 PM) oh, screw him .. he cheated us
                                  with the 1x1 pixel and i caught him 4 months
                                  ago.. and we kicked him out
                                  

sam        21/02/20 12:54 pm btw, i did a deal with Defender, owner of one
                                  of the mp3 sites today.. he gets to maintain
                                  all of our mp3 sites.. for 1cpmU.. for a max
                                  of $2500 per month..he'll maintain 10 sites
                                  for us.
                                  
                                  i have to get him a contract..

sam        21/02/20 11:02 pm Hey have you been talking to Thomas about the
                                  renegotiations w/ the french sites?

sam        21/02/20 11:43 pm Swedie (ICQ#20386173) Wrote:
                                  hey,
                                  
                                  I haven't recieved any money yet.. and I
                                  haven't recieved and email from Bryan as I
                                  suspected.

bryant     21/02/20 11:45 pm Who is that?

sam        21/02/20 11:46 pm just fwding you everything i get
                                  
                                  thats demonews.com

bryant     21/02/20 11:46 pm I'll ask Brian about them.  I asked him to
                                  touch base.
                                  
                                  On the ph with Astalavista right now btw.

sam        21/02/20 11:46 pm k

bryant     21/02/20 11:47 pm Can you live with breaking their back pay up
                                  every 3mos over like 18 months or something?

sam        21/02/20 11:48 pm that'd be harder and a struggle to do.. but
                                  better than nothing.. we might not live upto
                                  it, but give it a shot...it has to start in 3
                                  months though (obviously)

sam        21/02/20 11:54 pm hm his backpay seems wrong (astalavista) do u
                                  have his contract handy

bryant     22/02/20 12:01 am looking for it now.

bryant     22/02/20 12:03 am $8k base at 6mm pvs, $1100 for ever 1mm above
                                  base.

sam        22/02/20 12:04 am the new figures would be
                                  
                                  5650 for feb 19
                                  
                                  19150 backpay balance

bryant     22/02/20 12:04 am I show them as;
                                  
                                  11/00 - 11,901,703
                                  12/00 - 9,892,823
                                  01/01 - 8,780,933

sam        22/02/20 12:05 am no..because in january he used his own banner
                                  and put ours at the bottom.  he also had no
                                  webguide
                                  
                                  in january we count webguide impressions

bryant     22/02/20 12:05 am That's a little bit less.  Hmm.

bryant     22/02/20 12:05 am Ah right, okay.

sam        22/02/20 12:05 am and you have the nov and dec figures reversed

bryant     22/02/20 12:06 am Hmm, that's strange.  I've got the system
                                  reports printed out and they're dated.  Must
                                  have been a bug or something.

sam        22/02/20 12:06 am but thats the new figure according to base
                                  level pay
                                  
                                  i dont think bill gave me the right
                                  spreadsheet.. he's prorating the payments
                                  upwards in the same manner its prorated
                                  downwards..
                                  
                                  so on big amounts, i'd doublecheck

bryant     22/02/20 12:07 am ok

sam        22/02/20 12:07 am ok..either way, if u reverse the nov and dec,
                                  its the same payments

sam        22/02/20 12:07 am also, the figures  go through an internal
                                  audit check for cheating, refreshes, pops,
                                  etc.  traffic usually does that (drazen used
                                  to)

bryant     22/02/20 12:07 am If we tack on $1k per month, that's the rough
                                  equivalent of paying them a 2.5cpmU anyway.
                                  That work?

bryant     22/02/20 12:08 am MIght be easier than more every 3.

bryant     22/02/20 12:08 am Less impact.

sam        22/02/20 12:08 am oh u mean no backpay then?

bryant     22/02/20 12:08 am Yeah, we'll stop it when their backpay is
                                  done.  So we don't have to pay it forever.

bryant     22/02/20 12:08 am They're at a 2.0

sam        22/02/20 12:09 am ohh.. i see..hm.. only thing is we have to pay
                                  more every month right..than every 3 months?

sam        22/02/20 12:09 am (cashflow)

bryant     22/02/20 12:09 am I'm just thinking paying less per month might
                                  be easier than larger amounts every 3.

sam        22/02/20 12:10 am okay. im okay with that.. and we'll stop it
                                  when his backpay is done?

bryant     22/02/20 12:10 am Obviously we're going to work as many backpays
                                  at the end of the contract (or deal out at
                                  cents on the dollar) with most sites, Asta is
                                  a keeper though.

sam        22/02/20 12:11 am okay.. you should probably have the flexbility
                                  to do what it takes.. just remember the
                                  parameters.. the less the better, the more in
                                  the future the better

sam        22/02/20 12:11 am it will allow us to meet our obligations

bryant     22/02/20 12:11 am Certainly.  Actually, giving them $1k a month
                                  is less than paying them a 2.5

sam        22/02/20 12:12 am yeah.. they get good uniques

bryant     22/02/20 12:12 am 2.0 = 6814 (+1000 = 7814), 2.5 = 8517.5

bryant     22/02/20 12:12 am They were demanding all the back money up
                                  front before they sign anything.

sam        22/02/20 12:12 am he didnt go for every 3 months?

sam        22/02/20 12:12 am aha ok

sam        22/02/20 12:13 am just so u know, he tried to run different ads
                                  on the top banner.. and i dont hhink he could
                                  find a suitable outlet..he's running text
                                  links there now

bryant     22/02/20 12:13 am We can do like $3k every 3 (they want like 10k
                                  every 3, lol), but I just think it might be
                                  harder on us when it hits.

bryant     22/02/20 12:14 am per mo on this one minimizes the impact.
                                  Basically it equates to us agreeing to pay
                                  them a 2.29cpmU for a while.

sam        22/02/20 12:14 am yeah.. 1k/mo is fine i suppose.
                                  
                                  try not to do more than 5-10 of those.. cuz
                                  then thats 5-10k/month extra for however
                                  long..
                                  
                                  also, we're more in a cashflow hole now...it
                                  could be alot better in 3 months because we
                                  have invested people and resources into
                                  diversifying our revenue streams

bryant     22/02/20 12:15 am Yeah.  I only see a few sites I'm willing to
                                  talk to about that type of arrangement.  Asta
                                  is one of them.

sam        22/02/20 12:16 am ok.. u might have a pot for each gruop..
                                  like some sites, nothing
                                  some sites @ end of contract only
                                  some sites every quarter over 3 years or 18
                                  months
                                  some sites 1k/mo

sam        22/02/20 12:16 am helps us spradit

bryant     22/02/20 12:16 am That last group should end up being less than
                                  5

sam        22/02/20 12:16 am also i changed the SA cntract after u had sent
                                  it

bryant     22/02/20 12:16 am What part?

sam        22/02/20 12:17 am i made it so that
                                  
                                  "total is 27,762, payble atthe following
                                  schedule: 2500 for the first month and 1000
                                  for every month thereafter until whole is
                                  satisfied"
                                  
                                  also added net 30
                                  
                                  that way his next 1k isnt due until april 30

sam        22/02/20 12:17 am make sense?

bryant     22/02/20 12:18 am Yeah, it's a lot cleaner.  Heh, rushed that
                                  one off.

bryant     22/02/20 12:18 am Cool.

sam        22/02/20 12:19 am thats ok :) g3 was frantic cuz lowtax barged
                                  into his office saying where's the money.  i
                                  told g3 to send him home and make hime come
                                  back lter:)

bryant     22/02/20 12:19 am Heh

bryant     22/02/20 12:22 am Hebus is ready to remove any/all illegal
                                  content.  Any issue with bringing them online?

sam        22/02/20 12:22 am no not at all

sam        22/02/20 12:22 am lets do it

bryant     22/02/20 12:23 am Thought you were in San Fran today?

sam        22/02/20 12:23 am first flighth is booked.. next one is @
                                  10:50.. so i might as well work while i wait

bryant     22/02/20 12:30 am What did Hebus have on there causing the
                                  problems?

sam        22/02/20 12:31 am not really sure.. i didnt even know there  was
                                  anyting causing a problem.. marcF just told me
                                  that this morning..but i would imagine maybe
                                  celeb pics

bryant     22/02/20 12:44 am 5650 for 2/19 and then 19150 backpay, right?
                                  Or does the 19150 include the 5650?

sam        22/02/20 12:45 am yup thats right.. 19k is separate

bryant     22/02/20 12:45 am ok thx.  Just getting their addendum out.

sam        22/02/20 12:46 am great..  bill is asking me how much $ we're
                                  going to send out this week..
                                  
                                  whats ur guess.. 30-40k worth of backpay?

sam        22/02/20 12:46 am er feb 19 payments
                                  

bryant     22/02/20 12:47 am Almost impossible to guess.  I'd certainly say
                                  a fraction of the whole, but the question is
                                  how much.

bryant     22/02/20 12:47 am I'd say 30-40 should cover us for this week.

sam        22/02/20 12:48 am ok great

bryant     22/02/20 12:48 am If it starts to get close to that we'll tap
                                  dance a little bit and defer people to next
                                  week.

bryant     22/02/20 12:48 am So I'll keep a running tab.

sam        22/02/20 12:49 am actually id prefer to just get the contracts
                                  signed.. about is sending us 150k .. i signed
                                  the contract today.. so by the time it clears
                                  and all.. we should be ok

bryant     22/02/20 12:49 am ok, then I won't worry about it.

sam        22/02/20 11:20 am hey.. have you talked to jarretc
                                  (beautifulcelebrities.com).  he keeps calling
                                  me.

sam        23/02/20 10:51 am I'm talking to Scott/Gr right now

sam        23/02/20 10:51 am brian was working on him i think right

bryant     23/02/20 11:04 am Yeah, Brian was.

sam        23/02/20 11:06 am i can get him on board.. im talking to him
                                  now.. he hates g3 :)

bryant     23/02/20 11:29 am Heh.  There's something to use.  =)

sam        23/02/20 11:32 am Actually Scott gavem e some good ideas.  I
                                  asked G3 to setup a meeting with Jo.  I want
                                  Jo to send out a weekly newsletter that
                                  actually has good information.. I think she
                                  can do a great job

bryant     23/02/20 11:35 am Yeah, just mentioned that to her.  She thinks
                                  it's a good idea.

sam        23/02/20 11:37 am I want payment stuff, financial stuff in
                                  there, new sites, old sites, new campaigns,
                                  new ideas, etc.
                                  
                                  Should we do it so its a newsletter.. or
                                  should we do it like a egroups list so people
                                  can actually respond (mailing list)

bryant     23/02/20 11:38 am Dunno.  Lemme do a straw poll with the people
                                  I deal with tomorrow and see what they think.

bryant     23/02/20 11:38 am Then again maybe that confuses the help desk
                                  issue.

bryant     23/02/20 11:38 am We might want that to be the clear and only
                                  vehicle for communication.

sam        23/02/20 11:38 am yeah.. plus if we dont respond or get
                                  busy..they'l think we 're not communicating

bryant     23/02/20 11:39 am Yeah.  Thinking about it now I think a one-way
                                  newsletter is better.  It can link to the
                                  helpdesk address each time for questions,
                                  comments, concern.

sam        23/02/20 11:39 am yeah.. we should do a nice html
                                  newsletter..not the plain text stuff that bill
                                  hodson used to send.. i never read that.. it
                                  was junk :)

bryant     23/02/20 11:40 am Have to admit I didn't either.

sam        23/02/20 11:48 am Scott -Game Rankings: (7:44 PM) Lets talk
                                  hosting for a minute.  Right Now PSX Extreme
                                  and I and VGS are all on the sam server.  PSX
                                  Extreme is moving out onto his own server.  GR
                                  and VGS can move onto his new server and pay
                                  for hosting there instead of eFront paying for
                                  a dedicated machine just for GR and VGS.  Cost
                                  would be $450 a month for hosting.  I think
                                  that is cheaper than what you are paying right
                                  now for a dedicated machine.  I am going
                                  somewhere with this....
                                  
                                  [do u know if psxextreme passed on us]

bryant     23/02/20 11:48 am Lemme look

bryant     23/02/20 11:49 am Yeah, they want out.

sam        23/02/20 11:49 am what was the last cpm we offered them.. 3?

bryant     23/02/20 11:50 am Brian is going to take them 2.5-3.  So there's
                                  still a shot.

sam        23/02/20 11:51 am are you amazed that we have most of the people
                                  accepting @ 2 and such

bryant     23/02/20 11:52 am I've been pretty surprised, yeah.

bryant     23/02/20 11:52 am Glad really.  More reasonable people than
                                  non-.

sam        23/02/20 11:52 am so jarret is all okay huh.. what did he take..
                                  2?

bryant     23/02/20 11:53 am Yep, .2

sam        23/02/20 11:53 am are most ppl taking backpay @ the end or
                                  mixed?

bryant     23/02/20 11:54 am Mixed.  Backpay at the end has been a
                                  stumbling block almost every time.

sam        23/02/20 12:13 pm Tim loves the 75cent cpm idea for backpay idea
                                  :)

sam        23/02/20 12:13 pm Once the contracts are done, if we need to
                                  reduce our backpay or debt on the books, we
                                  can offer that to more people.. or offer it to
                                  people now even :)

sam        23/02/20 11:15 pm Swedie: (7:14 AM) Do you know when I will get
                                  payed .. I mean that 50% of a month deal you
                                  talked about that I'd be getting on the 19th
                                  of Feb.
                                  sam: (7:14 AM) yes.. monday/tuesday..
                                  
                                  sam: (7:14 AM) hey let me fwd u to Will Bryant
                                  now
                                  sam: (7:14 AM) he's on
                                  
                                  [demonews guy.. looking for contract

sam        25/02/20 9:12 am  http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/50/16943.
                                  tml
                                  
                                  [harsha always said he could go to euniverse..
                                  oh well]

sam        26/02/20 8:56 pm  BLAMEj00: (4:54 AM) Doesn't this guy have some
                                  kind of non-complete in his contract?
                                  http://beautifulsavers.efront.com
                                  
                                  Because these sites (and I'm sure others) sure
                                  do look like they are done by the same guy
                                  (just outside eFront).
                                  
                                  http://www.beautifulbikini.com
                                  http://www.elitesavers.com
                                  http://www.fabuloussavers.com
                                  http://celebritysavers.com
                                  http://www.sexyfreeamateurs.com
                                  
                                  iBLAMEj00: (4:54 AM) Actually, I checked and
                                  they are all registered by the same guy, Gabor
                                  Timis (same guy that's with eFront)?  I'm sure
                                  he has other sites too, but I think the plan
                                  is to sell one to efront and promote the
                                  others.

sam        26/02/20 8:56 pm  tim sentme that..something to consider whenu
                                  talk to gabor

sam        28/02/20 3:02 pm  i believe Marc's last day is tomorrow
                                  (voluntary resignation cuz of stress).. I hope
                                  he find another job quickly.  He was a good
                                  asset.  At the same we have s4r to do all the
                                  tech stuff so that will help.  We're going to
                                  outsource our
                                  hr/payroll/ar/ap/reporting/payables/etc. to
                                  ledgent.com  so we outsource that too.. to
                                  streamline stuff.. do you have any experience
                                  with firms like that

bryant     28/02/20 3:04 pm  Sure don't.  Only one I'm familiar with is
                                  ADP, but I don't even know what services they
                                  provide and being so large they probably
                                  aren't very cost effective.

sam        28/02/20 3:06 pm  ledgent uses adp too..so they'll continue to
                                  do ourpayroll through adp.. but they're an
                                  outsourced finance division..doing eerything a
                                  to z.. uyou just fax them bills, invoices,
                                  etc. and they put it all together.  i had to
                                  cut bill's pay by 30%..and he said he'd have
                                  to find another job.. isaid i can
                                  understand..but i cant afford to accrue salary
                                  anymore.. we'll pay u full amount w/ payroll
                                  and thats it..so he'll start looking around
                                  but be professional and help us through
                                  this..and we're going to look @ ledgent i
                                  think

bryant     28/02/20 3:09 pm  Ledgent sounds good.

sam        28/02/20 3:10 pm  i just read mame's 'you have 30 mins' hehe..
                                  like we'd respond for sure then :)

bryant     28/02/20 3:11 pm  Yeah, heh.  I called them on saying we hadn't
                                  spoken since the first day, they claimed no
                                  other emails had gone back and forth so I
                                  found and forwarded some.  They've been oddly
                                  quiet about it since.

bryant     28/02/20 3:11 pm  I've laid out what we can offer them again, so
                                  we'll see what they get back with.  I
                                  literally half suspect a week from now we'll
                                  get another crazy email saying they're being
                                  ignored.

sam        28/02/20 3:12 pm  i think they'll accept.. what choices do they
                                  have

bryant     28/02/20 3:12 pm  Not many.  I think they probably will too to
                                  be honest.

sam        28/02/20 3:12 pm  thats why i said.. hey ill talk to them.. i
                                  would basically say.. hey i understand
                                  blahblah..but market sucks.. do u have any
                                  better choices? i'd like to find out myself..

bryant     28/02/20 3:13 pm  Think about Hebus at all?  I don't know how
                                  important that one is (it seems to be a
                                  need-to-keep'er), and he's made it clear he
                                  can't accept even a 2.5.  Thoughts on what to
                                  do with him?  His biggest issue is getting
                                  monthly $ up and sustaining that.

sam        28/02/20 3:14 pm  oh ya.. i forgot.. lots going on.. lemme see.

sam        28/02/20 3:14 pm  we probalby need to get him on icq

sam        28/02/20 3:14 pm  chat conf

sam        28/02/20 3:14 pm  because i think the only way is to

sam        28/02/20 3:14 pm  keep talking him down

sam        28/02/20 3:14 pm  money is money

sam        28/02/20 3:15 pm  there's not too many choices

sam        28/02/20 3:15 pm  i want to say..
                                  
                                  look hi-media kicked us out

sam        28/02/20 3:15 pm  your click-thru sucks

sam        28/02/20 3:15 pm  maybe you advertise on the english
                                  version..and we'll take the french version

sam        28/02/20 3:15 pm  we're losing lots of money on ur site

bryant     28/02/20 3:15 pm  Yep.  He's around most of the afternoon, it
                                  might be effective for me to pull both of you
                                  into an ICQ chat and you can talk a bit.  Make
                                  him feel important, he's getting the CEO, etc.
                                  etc.

sam        28/02/20 3:16 pm  yeah.. just keep talking him down mostly.. and
                                  say.. hey incrase your unique users..

sam        28/02/20 3:16 pm  we're not capping it at 1600/month

sam        28/02/20 3:16 pm  increase your unique users..and that helps
                                  both of us

sam        28/02/20 3:16 pm  and we should show him our own french
                                  celebrity site we did in a day

sam        28/02/20 3:16 pm  as  a back up :)

sam        28/02/20 3:16 pm  to say we might let him walk

bryant     28/02/20 3:17 pm  Is that what he is?  I've never actually seen
                                  his site.  Only time I loaded it was when it
                                  was back up briefly.

sam        28/02/20 3:18 pm  well wallpapers mostly

sam        28/02/20 3:19 pm  http://megagames.com/ps2/
                                  
                                  harsha still has his own click-xchange
                                  affiliates.. sigh

sam        28/02/20 3:19 pm  ('win a ps2')
#37 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:13:28
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
bryant     28/02/20 3:19 pm  You anticipate the ranks are going to thin a
                                  lot more in the near term?

sam        28/02/20 3:19 pm  you mean employees?

sam        28/02/20 3:19 pm  its mostly under our control.. who we want to
                                  let go or not

bryant     28/02/20 3:19 pm  Yeah.  You mentioned Jon maybe playing a
                                  backup in case of one departure.  Just
                                  wondering what the general tone is out there.

sam        28/02/20 3:20 pm  its actually pretty good here

sam        28/02/20 3:20 pm  they're all happy we're doing this

sam        28/02/20 3:20 pm  something everyone agrees with

sam        28/02/20 3:20 pm  we're not killing revenue generating stuff or
                                  mission critical stuff

sam        28/02/20 3:20 pm  just the fat

sam        28/02/20 3:20 pm  they all said that sam you shouldve done it a
                                  month ago

sam        28/02/20 3:20 pm  oh you mean Jon is looking around?

bryant     28/02/20 3:20 pm  Cool.  I'm not surprised I guess that Marc
                                  ended up leaving.  Obviously he's been
                                  somewhat unhappy for some time.

sam        28/02/20 3:21 pm  yeah.. i already had marc crossed out in my
                                  financials i did this past weekend

sam        28/02/20 3:21 pm  cuz iknew he would.. and it was okay..cuz we
                                  didnt really needhim

sam        28/02/20 3:21 pm  since we have s4r

sam        28/02/20 3:21 pm  g3 was panicking a little

sam        28/02/20 3:21 pm  i said no.. stop.. use helpdesk.. fwd to
                                  s4r..simple

bryant     28/02/20 3:21 pm  Heh.

sam        28/02/20 3:22 pm  he was like oh they wouldnt want to etc. i
                                  said were paying them  a pretty penny.. let
                                  themearn it

sam        28/02/20 3:22 pm  none of the people that left, we are going to
                                  replace

sam        28/02/20 3:22 pm  only one a layoff technically

sam        28/02/20 3:22 pm  so strategic reductions ;)

sam        28/02/20 3:22 pm  most of them think its their choice..:)

bryant     28/02/20 3:23 pm  That's usually the best scenario for everyone.
                                   Mutual breakup.

sam        28/02/20 3:23 pm  http://www.babe-site.com/babes/

bryant     28/02/20 3:24 pm  Heh, funny how simple those sites are and how
                                  much traffic they move.

sam        28/02/20 3:24 pm  yeah.. of course jerry threatend to take
                                  comany down etc. like i expected etc. bill had
                                  worked something out with him payments over
                                  time etc. and he came back and said no, thats
                                  not acceptable (we gave him a senior secured
                                  note even for it).. and he wanted a $300k
                                  note.. ha ya riht

sam        28/02/20 3:25 pm  so i told bill.. add up all his stuff/exp.
                                  etc. take taxes out.. and pay him the backpay
                                  within 24 hrs.. and i guess there's a small
                                  severance since he washere from the begin. and
                                  thats due in 30 days

sam        28/02/20 3:25 pm  and basiclaly he owes the company a note for
                                  his stock

bryant     28/02/20 3:25 pm  He already all moved out?

sam        28/02/20 3:26 pm  so i took all his leverage away by saying
                                  we'll abide by the contract

sam        28/02/20 3:26 pm  pick up ur pay within 24 hrs as needed by the
                                  law

sam        28/02/20 3:26 pm  and in 30 days, we'll revoe his equity if he
                                  doesnt agree to terms on severance

sam        28/02/20 3:27 pm  he was sying'ill bring the company down.. i
                                  can cause problems, etc.' i was like'i dont
                                  care what you do.. its totally irrelevant.. do
                                  whatever u feel like.. we dont care.. we been
                                  through it all, as u already know.. we're
                                  going to follow our agreements and abide by
                                  it'

sam        28/02/20 3:27 pm  heh

sam        28/02/20 3:27 pm  yeah.. i gave him a termination letter today

sam        28/02/20 3:27 pm  because its the 25th

sam        28/02/20 3:27 pm  27th

sam        28/02/20 3:28 pm  and he had severnace that built up half months
                                  pay every 2 months or something.. so he doesnt
                                  get his last one.. and it separates us for 30
                                  days

sam        28/02/20 3:28 pm  lets the employees get all used to everything

sam        28/02/20 3:28 pm  then i can deal with him by playing hardball
                                  on the promissory note

sam        28/02/20 3:29 pm  hey u have to fight fire w/ fire :)

bryant     28/02/20 3:30 pm  Yeah.  I know he had been working in other
                                  areas, so the change isn't going to be huge
                                  for ppl like Jon and myself.  We had limited
                                  contact with him the last few months.  Before
                                  it was almost daily, but obviously after the
                                  shift that wasn't needed.

sam        28/02/20 3:30 pm  yeah.. same here..he wasnt doing much last 2-3
                                  months

sam        28/02/20 3:31 pm  and i asked dennis, bill, etc. in advance..and
                                  they didnt have any problem.. so i said
                                  ok..lets cut that out too.. bettr to cut our
                                  losses now.. cuz he was getting more and more
                                  demanding as the market was getting
                                  down..wanted pay increases, priortized before
                                  other employees, etc. i said noway

sam        28/02/20 3:31 pm  so is Jon okay ?

sam        28/02/20 3:31 pm  probably alot of changes for him.. but i want
                                  to make sure he doesnt go anywhere:)

bryant     28/02/20 3:33 pm  Yeah, as far as I know.  Like everyone to a
                                  certain degree he and I have talked "what do
                                  we do if" and stuff like that but it's mostly
                                  been tied to "what if eF were to go under",
                                  etc.  We don't talk about it much, mostly
                                  because he's got some pretty big distractions
                                  right now.  Specifically his house and his
                                  Mom's health.

bryant     28/02/20 3:33 pm  I have to assume him going into a mortgage is
                                  a sign he's sticking around.  I know he's
                                  still going through with that.

sam        28/02/20 3:34 pm  yeah i can undertsand that
                                  
                                  also im moving traffic from him to scott p...
                                  and having him do programming, ad server
                                  management and admin.. and programming for
                                  that
                                  
                                  something he enjoys.. and matt is happy about
                                  that too

bryant     28/02/20 3:34 pm  I think that will help.  I know Jon has said a
                                  few times he's not really happy in traffic.

sam        28/02/20 3:37 pm  basically, it looks like 125k payrool, 125k
                                  webmasters, 80k s4r, 40k facilities, 30k
                                  misc.. 50% reduction in expenses.. without
                                  effecting revenues because of reduction in
                                  expenses.. so 400k/month .. we havent had a
                                  400k month in like 10 months.. i think feb
                                  will be 500k.. and march im trying to push for
                                  700k and april 1 mil..that way we start to
                                  save up some $.. and as soon as webmasters are
                                  done..we'll go through and reduce the debt
                                  too..negotiate, etc. like its 1mil.. 300k
                                  pillsbury, 150k cais, 200k backpay (im
                                  negotiating that rightnow)...200k misc.. so i
                                  want to clean all that up.. and cais is in
                                  dispute.. so i think a month or two..and it'll
                                  be wpiedout.

sam        28/02/20 3:38 pm  after everything settles down in a few days..
                                  we'll probaly have an employee meeting.. so
                                  we'll get u guys on the phone..and go over
                                  everything

sam        28/02/20 3:38 pm  meaning we havent had a rev month that was as
                                  low as 400k in 10 months

sam        28/02/20 3:38 pm  dec was 800k..but 50% was uncollectible

bryant     28/02/20 3:39 pm  That will be great.  It's concerning me a bit
                                  how long the sites are taking, but I've pulled
                                  Marc D. in to handle the initial talking to
                                  streamline the process a bit so hopefully that
                                  will help.  All the sites seem to come around
                                  with time and a good deal of talking, but that
                                  takes time.  I'm concerned about Brian leaving
                                  next week too.  I talked briefly with Jon
                                  about maybe jumping in but he wasn't too
                                  comfortable with it.

sam        28/02/20 3:40 pm  i can jump in .. and marcd.. and we can pay
                                  brian a bonus for finishing even

sam        28/02/20 3:40 pm  like 1000/week as a consultant

sam        28/02/20 3:40 pm  so you have that option as well

bryant     28/02/20 3:40 pm  Yeah, I'll feel him out about that a bit
                                  tomorrow.  Perhaps even ask it as a favor.  We
                                  can really use him another week or two.

sam        28/02/20 3:41 pm  yeah im not sure if jon would be able to
                                  handle it.. i think brian got burned out on
                                  this..lot of friction.. and probably better to
                                  have jon focus on the tech stuff..so we dont
                                  lose him cuz of all that

sam        28/02/20 3:41 pm  yeah.. we'll pay himtoo.. so u have that
                                  option
                                  

bryant     28/02/20 3:42 pm  Yeah, I could tell pretty quickly Jon wanted
                                  no part of it.  He's conflict averse, which I
                                  knew of course, but some of this isn't
                                  combative so I thought maybe.

bryant     28/02/20 3:42 pm  We'll get it all figured out

sam        28/02/20 3:42 pm  marcD is good at this kind of stuff..really
                                  good

sam        28/02/20 3:43 pm  i think we owe himfor nov/dec.. ill tell him
                                  that if u help out on this stuff, we'll get
                                  his nov money soon.. like 2k..and dec money in
                                  30 days.. i had told him we'd work something
                                  out..so he'll be more than happy

bryant     28/02/20 3:43 pm  That's good to hear - I think putting him as
                                  the first line of defense should really help.
                                  A lot of time is spent just getting people
                                  past the initial shock of what they need to
                                  do.  After that it's just working out the
                                  details.  Which isn't always easy, but it's
                                  more time effective to break it out.

sam        28/02/20 3:44 pm  ok ill prep marcD.. he'll beperfect.. he
                                  handled like 20 affiliates for us.. in the
                                  affiliateprogram.. he made webmasters put up
                                  floating ads and all sorts of stuff.. so he
                                  knows how to talk :)

bryant     28/02/20 3:45 pm  Anyway, I better crash.  Couple sites always
                                  want to keep talking late, but there are
                                  several that want first thing in the morning.
                                  So I'm going to get in as much sleep time as I
                                  can.

sam        28/02/20 3:45 pm  k..gnite

bryant     28/02/20 3:45 pm  Phone will be ringing in about 5 hours.  Heh.
                                  That's good though, each one we cover makes
                                  the rest of the job easier.

sam        02/03/20 12:50 pm i should probably get an attorney involved.  i
                                  will call one tomorrow and get them started by
                                  giving them the babynames stuff.

bryant     03/03/20 1:38 pm  Still need that exit agreement template if you
                                  can shoot it over.

sam        03/03/20 1:39 pm  oh ya.. k

sam        03/03/20 1:39 pm  i cringed when i saw the to: also.. hopefully
                                  noone starts trouble:)

bryant     03/03/20 1:39 pm  If they do, we'll kill it quick.

sam        03/03/20 1:40 pm  on 2nd thought, it might not be so bad to have
                                  discussions going..and everyone sees
                                  stuff..and have an open air ..its a hard time
                                  to do it cuz they'll just complain about
                                  payments irght now:)  its hard to kill it on
                                  an open-list w/ all the webmasters addresses..
                                  

sam        03/03/20 1:41 pm  hopefully hebus signs soon.. im telling bill
                                  to set aside 10k for him already

bryant     03/03/20 1:41 pm  Well, I don't mean kill it quick by gagging
                                  them, I mean kill it quick by me contacting
                                  anyone who abuses this directly and making
                                  myself plain.

bryant     03/03/20 1:41 pm  They can talk in the egroups thing - doesn't
                                  need to be by spamming everyone.

sam        03/03/20 1:41 pm  thats true

sam        03/03/20 1:42 pm  use some marine techniques on them huh :)

bryant     03/03/20 1:43 pm  Heh, I'm just in a bad mood now, that's all.
                                  I went off on Jo too hard, but she just hasn't
                                  done that before and didn't know better.  I
                                  don't know what happened to my suggestion they
                                  use a one-directional list, but hopefully it
                                  will happen now.  I guess Greg just assumed
                                  she would know to BCC.
                                  
                                  It's her screw-up, I just think it could have
                                  been prevented.  Especially had I realized she
                                  was mailing it before she did.

bryant     03/03/20 1:43 pm  Like I said, just in a nasty mood all around
                                  right now.  =)

sam        03/03/20 1:45 pm  thats okay.. she said im sorry.. i said dont
                                  worry about it..

sam        03/03/20 1:45 pm  kiss and make up with her :)

sam        03/03/20 1:45 pm  i dont think greg is technical so he probably
                                  didnt know what you meant
                                  

bryant     03/03/20 1:50 pm  Yeah, I'm not suggesting he dropped the ball
                                  at all.  Jo and I are fine, I just made the
                                  point to her that even though someone (even
                                  me) probably should have mentioned to her to
                                  use BCC, she still should have seen the
                                  reasoning for that on her own.

sam        03/03/20 2:01 pm  i just emailed u the release.
                                  
                                  also, someone took the emails on the
                                  newsletter and invited everyone to the
                                  yahoogroups :) oh well.. i think we're
                                  wrapping up the signing of the biggest sites
                                  anyways.  
                                  
                                  and also we'll use them talking on the yahoo
                                  groups as violation of the nda.  

sam        03/03/20 2:03 pm  we should find the owner of the yahoo egruops
                                  list and kick them out :)

bryant     03/03/20 2:05 pm  Hmm, actually the egroups thing might be a
                                  positive.  There's a lot of negativity in
                                  there from time to time, but it's also been a
                                  good way for them to vent.  Better yet they
                                  either don't know we're in there or don't care
                                  - but it's a good way for us to keep tabs on
                                  general moods, etc.

sam        03/03/20 2:06 pm  thats true yeah.. and when things turn around,
                                  we can use that to deploy campaigns, etc.

bryant     03/03/20 2:06 pm  Better to have them talking in front of us
                                  than behind us.   =)

bryant     03/03/20 2:11 pm  Actually this is great - someone starts
                                  yapping and we'll just direct them to the
                                  eGroup.  Almost as if it was part of our own
                                  plan to foster better communication.

sam        03/03/20 2:11 pm  hehe yeah :)
                                  
                                  i think someone made this mistake back last
                                  year.. too.. and not one person responded.  

bryant     03/03/20 2:12 pm  Actually I remember that.  Was it Bill H.?

sam        03/03/20 2:13 pm  yep
                                  
                                  pcmech guy is a pain in the neck.. he called
                                  me 5 times and left msgs.. now he just emailed
                                  me saying he got the newsletter, etc. and
                                  wants to know where his counter proposal is
                                  .and lack of comm. is why he wants to leave
                                  efront, yadayada

bryant     03/03/20 2:13 pm  Strange reaction to the newsletter.  That's an
                                  obvious attempt on our part to provide better
                                  communication.

sam        03/03/20 2:13 pm  wellthat i didnt respond back in a day to him
                                  or something

sam        03/03/20 2:14 pm  any idea how to approach him? im thinking
                                  about giving him the options:
                                  
                                  * buy his site back and pay us..
                                  * 4 cpmU even maybe or something + we host to
                                  make it economical
                                  * something

bryant     03/03/20 2:14 pm  Yeah, they're all that way.  As far as they're
                                  concerned, our worlds revolve around each of
                                  them individually.  As if they're the only one
                                  out there we need to serve.

bryant     03/03/20 2:17 pm  Sounds good to me.  Can't offer him much more
                                  than that.  I spoke with a friend (lawyer)
                                  about all of this to see how far ppl could
                                  possibly go, and really - since we just can't
                                  pay the old rates and we're offering deals to
                                  keep ourselves from going under and in some
                                  cases we're letting people go - he says they
                                  really have no recourse.

bryant     03/03/20 2:17 pm  Said the only thing outside of renegotiating
                                  or leaving that they could do is simply not
                                  sign anything and hold out to see if the
                                  market corrects.

bryant     03/03/20 2:18 pm  But there actually can't be a class action
                                  suit.

bryant     03/03/20 2:18 pm  Which means that even if several got together
                                  to sue, they would have to pay fees out of
                                  pocket.  Class action everything is free.

bryant     03/03/20 2:19 pm  Can't be one because the webmasters aren't a
                                  class that is.

sam        03/03/20 2:19 pm  really?

bryant     03/03/20 2:21 pm  So he says.  We didn't go into it much, but
                                  when there's a segment of people who are
                                  clearly defined and not tied to the body they
                                  want to sue by common means (like same
                                  contract terms) - then they can't be treated
                                  as a class.

sam        03/03/20 2:21 pm  if they leave, can we make them pay us our
                                  equity interest in the website?

sam        03/03/20 2:21 pm  aha i see.. that makes sense

bryant     03/03/20 2:22 pm  I asked him that but he didn't really have a
                                  clear answer.  It was something along the
                                  lines of "grey area, merits to both sides".
                                  He doesn't specialize in property or
                                  contractual law though, and I didn't want him
                                  talking to partners and charging me.  =)

sam        03/03/20 2:23 pm  yeah.. i do have a new law firm i engaged
                                  today.. gotta pay like a 5k retainer and sign
                                  paper tuesday.. so we have multiple and easier
                                  to juggle bills.. plus this one i got them to
                                  take 33% equity for their bills:)

bryant     03/03/20 2:24 pm  He did say ppl would have a really tough time
                                  convincing any reputable firm to come after
                                  us.  (1) because it's shakey ground with us
                                  offering people solutions and (2) because
                                  individualluy even with the bigger sites the
                                  potential award (which couldn't exceed what
                                  they're owed) isn't enough to really pay for
                                  any real action.

sam        03/03/20 2:26 pm  yeah.. btw, babynames never replied to a harsh
                                  email i sent them .. very interesting

sam        03/03/20 2:26 pm  i think they're bluffing us

sam        03/03/20 2:26 pm  did i fwd u the email

bryant     03/03/20 2:27 pm  No, don't think so.

bryant     03/03/20 2:28 pm  I think they have to be bluffing.  I'm sure
                                  they talked to a lawyer, but I think they were
                                  probably told that there's nothing to gain
                                  from any action.

sam        03/03/20 2:29 pm  im @ my home comp so dont have it.. but
                                  basically they were requesting/demanding dns
                                  changes
                                  
                                  i emailed them and cc:'d their lawyer saying
                                  not only are we not going to approve the
                                  changes, we wont do a thing about it until the
                                  conflict is resolved.  that they continue to
                                  violate our non-compete policies by having
                                  amazon links there and ignore our requests to
                                  deploy campaigns and holding our books hostage
                                  by disabling the l90 account so we cant
                                  complete our jan/feb financials.. that i am
                                  waiting on an agreement from robert (their
                                  lawyer).. and until this issue is resolved, i
                                  am turning off access to our property
                                  babynames.com to protect our data:)

sam        03/03/20 2:30 pm  then jennifer talked to tim

sam        03/03/20 2:30 pm  eckel

sam        03/03/20 2:30 pm  and he was going down on them too

sam        03/03/20 2:30 pm  so she got stressed and logged out

sam        03/03/20 2:30 pm  hehe

bryant     03/03/20 2:30 pm  Heh, wonder why she talked to Tim?

sam        03/03/20 2:30 pm  i told him to tell her about the house
                                  example, we dont have money or assets

sam        03/03/20 2:30 pm  i think from the egroups list from awhile ago
                                  they had communicated

sam        03/03/20 2:31 pm  which is good..cuz tim tells me everything..
                                  and says everything we want to say :)

bryant     03/03/20 2:31 pm  OK cool, that's helpful.

sam        04/03/20 1:22 am  hey johan msged me.. were u able to talk to
                                  him

bryant     04/03/20 1:23 am  Which site is Johan?

sam        04/03/20 1:23 am  sub-net.com, seekmp3, anti-leech, mp3toplist

bryant     04/03/20 1:25 am  No, haven't had a chance yet.  You can give
                                  him my ICQ and/or email so he hits me and not
                                  you tho.  Will get to him asap.
                                  
                                  Hebus is arguing about some of the things in
                                  the addendum.

sam        04/03/20 1:26 am  we should stand firm..
                                  
                                  what is he arguing about

sam        04/03/20 1:26 am  our biggest thing is we're giving him 10k
                                  right away.. he should be real happy bout that

sam        04/03/20 1:26 am  and use that as leverage

bryant     04/03/20 1:26 am  He wants all the stuff about waiving his
                                  rights and claims against eF taken out.
                                  Basically all of 2b.

bryant     04/03/20 1:26 am  He doesn't have any outs in his contract, but
                                  we still need that language in there.

bryant     04/03/20 1:27 am  He also wants Net15 and not Net30.

bryant     04/03/20 1:27 am  lol.

bryant     04/03/20 1:27 am  I'm talking to him, but I think he feels like
                                  he needs to work us down on every issue.

sam        04/03/20 1:27 am  ya that wont work.. tell him we need thisi
                                  because we cant have him come back and say you
                                  owe me more money

bryant     04/03/20 1:27 am  Crap like this is why I don't have enough
                                  minutes in the day.  =)

sam        04/03/20 1:27 am  yeah i know ..thats what i gathered
                                  fromtalking to him :)

sam        04/03/20 1:28 am  he's basically ours.. tell him if we dont get
                                  it done in 24 hours, we'll have to apply the
                                  10k for another webmaster..and he'llh ave to
                                  wait another month for his check :)

sam        04/03/20 1:28 am  cna i see the addendum.. it starts his new
                                  payment on march 1 right

sam        04/03/20 1:32 am  perfect

bryant     04/03/20 1:40 am  He's being difficult.  He wants a clause in
                                  the addendum that says he gets to keep the
                                  domain name for the term of the agreement.

bryant     04/03/20 1:46 am  Sounds like he'll sign this, but he's also
                                  saying he's not going to give up the domain
                                  name until the contract is up.  Obviously he's
                                  not within his rights to do that, so unless
                                  you have an issue I'm going to drop this
                                  subject with him if he'll let me.

sam        04/03/20 1:56 am  yeah drop the subject.. we want domain name in
                                  our name

bryant     04/03/20 1:56 am  We covered it, he seems okay now.
                                  

bryant     04/03/20 1:57 am  Told him it's like buying a car.  He goes on
                                  the lot today and signs a deal - he leaves
                                  with the car and a promise to pay.  If he pays
                                  he keeps it, if he doesn't, the dealership can
                                  repo the car.  But he has the car while paying
                                  for it.
                                  
                                  No layaway plans in net acqusitions.  heh.

sam        04/03/20 1:58 am  hehe

bryant     04/03/20 1:59 am  I see Johan's sites are on this release
                                  template you sent me.  Are we cutting him
                                  loose?  If so, what does he still want for
                                  you/us/me?

bryant     04/03/20 1:59 am  nm, wrong sites/person.

sam        04/03/20 1:59 am  no we're not cutting him.. that was stas.net's
                                  sites

bryant     04/03/20 2:00 am  Yeah, wrong group of sites.


sam        04/03/20 2:02 am  of the top sites:
                                  megagames  ok
                                  mame  pending
                                  freevote ok
                                  aracdeathome ok
                                  indiamasala gone
                                  somethingaw ok
                                  babynames limbo
                                  teenstation gone
                                  beautifulwallpapers limbo [this guy has like
                                  10 sites and he uses our sites to direct
                                  traffic to his other sites..gabor timis.. we
                                  gotta stop this.. maybe have him throw all his
                                  sites together + noncompete]
                                  emux - no clue
                                  hebus ok
                                  animenetwork ok
                                  bresso -
                                  xaviersite ok
                                  shulu -
                                  skinz - ok
                                  sub-net - will be ok
                                  demonews - ok
                                  rpgamer -?

bryant     04/03/20 2:02 am  We cutting full checks for people whose
                                  contract are up and are leaving?  Wavplace for
                                  example, we have $3270 on the books for them.

sam        04/03/20 2:02 am  thats not bad huh

sam        04/03/20 2:02 am  no we cant

sam        04/03/20 2:02 am  make it payment plan?

bryant     04/03/20 2:02 am  Yep, absolutely.  Just wanted to check.

sam        04/03/20 2:02 am  or if they want all of it now.. make a deal..
                                  like 50% or less even

bryant     04/03/20 2:02 am  Yeah, that's not bad at all.  re: RPGamer, I
                                  just got an addendum revision back from his
                                  lawyer.  I'll send it to you.
#38 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:14:14
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
sam        04/03/20 2:03 am  or even let them continue maintaining the site
                                  for another 3 month.. and pay them 1123/month

sam        04/03/20 2:13 am  forget that.. i'd rather let him walk..

sam        04/03/20 2:13 am  what do u think

bryant     04/03/20 2:13 am  Hard to say.  Decent site, but ugly changes to
                                  the addendum.

bryant     04/03/20 2:19 am  I'll ID the issues for him and see what he'll
                                  do.  If he can't budge then we'll walk him I
                                  guess.
                                  
                                  So obviously theres;
                                  3a - 'ownership of the website shall remain
                                  with the developer'
                                  3c - 'accrue interest at the rate of 12%'
                                  and it needs a paragraph killing the outs he
                                  has.

bryant     04/03/20 2:20 am  Anything else?

sam        04/03/20 2:21 am  yeah add that paragraph killing his outs too.
                                  
                                  

sam        04/03/20 2:22 am  and make it state of california
                                  

sam        04/03/20 2:22 am  there's no way we're changing the jurisdiction
                                  to washington

bryant     04/03/20 2:23 am  I'm tempted to further mark up the one you
                                  sent me with the out killer and killing the
                                  jurisdictional issue and send that as-is.
                                  Present a problem?

sam        04/03/20 2:23 am  no not at all.. i just makred up what i saw
                                  quickly.. keep marking it up.. and do what you
                                  need to do

sam        04/03/20 2:23 am  but the out killer.. dont "highlight" that :)

bryant     04/03/20 2:24 am  Oh no, just going to quietly replace it with
                                  the 2b he has.

bryant     04/03/20 2:24 am  Woops, forgot to redline...

bryant     04/03/20 2:27 am  Is it just the compounded monthly part you
                                  want dead, or the whole interest issue?

sam        04/03/20 2:28 am  what do u think..  i was trying to do it so
                                  tthere's a balance and we dont cross
                                  everything out

bryant     04/03/20 2:28 am  Yeah, I agree.

sam        04/03/20 2:28 am  did astalavista sign

sam        04/03/20 2:28 am  cuz they still dont have our banners back up..
                                  or maybe waiting for payments?

bryant     04/03/20 2:29 am  I think they're waiting for payment.

sam        04/03/20 2:29 am  ok ill ask bill

bryant     04/03/20 2:48 am  Hey, I just got an ICQ from one of the
                                  Penny-Arcade guys.  I guess Jerry never signed
                                  and mailed their release.  Is that something
                                  we can get done this week?  I'm not even sure
                                  where the release is at this point.  Jerry had
                                  it last I knew, but I bet I can track down a
                                  copy in my sent folder.

sam        04/03/20 2:48 am  ya send it off to me and i can probably do
                                  that

bryant     04/03/20 2:51 am  Just got it off.

sam        04/03/20 3:05 am  what was the last offer w/ pcmech.. do u know

sam        04/03/20 3:08 am  for rpgamer, the balance we have says 10k

sam        04/03/20 3:08 am  how did they get 21k

sam        04/03/20 3:08 am  oh i know how.. they didnt put our webguide up

sam        04/03/20 3:08 am  i dont think they'll cooperate putting new
                                  stuff up

bryant     04/03/20 3:10 am  No, I needed to talk to Brian today anyway, so
                                  I'll get the pcmech offer then.  I've got to
                                  sit down with him and get caught up on
                                  everything he was working on and get all his
                                  docs.

sam        04/03/20 3:24 am  do u have pcmechs' contract in front of you

bryant     04/03/20 3:24 am  The original?

sam        04/03/20 3:24 am  i was wondering when it started.. and if it
                                  was a 3 year dea

sam        04/03/20 3:24 am  yeah

bryant     04/03/20 3:24 am  Yeah

sam        04/03/20 3:24 am  im writing back to pcmech.. to see if we can
                                  pull off a hebus-like math

bryant     04/03/20 3:24 am  Wait no - that's PCMedia.  Don't have PCmech's

sam        04/03/20 3:24 am  pcemdia is pcmech

sam        04/03/20 3:24 am  same ting

bryant     04/03/20 3:25 am  ok, lemme pull it up.

bryant     04/03/20 3:26 am  Standard agreement.  3 year term starting
                                  6/9/2000.  No outs.

bryant     04/03/20 3:28 am  RPGamer just caught the 2b change.

sam        04/03/20 3:30 am  well tell him he made changes..and we made
                                  change

sam        04/03/20 3:36 am  cc:d  you on the pcmech email.. tell me what u
                                  think

sam        04/03/20 5:07 am  hey do you know much about john graham's
                                  skills..just going through the employee list

sam        04/03/20 3:02 pm  fyi..i think marc F. is waiting for the newly
                                  revised addendum or something
                                  

bryant     05/03/20 7:45 am  Seems Jarret isn't so friendly after all.

sam        05/03/20 7:52 am  jarret..yeh he's a snake ..always pullsthe
                                  switcharoo on u

bryant     05/03/20 7:52 am  Yann Stettler is a real problem child too.

bryant     05/03/20 7:53 am  There are quite a few people trying to
                                  organize others.

sam        05/03/20 7:53 am  stettler's contract expired i think

sam        05/03/20 7:53 am  who's trying to organize?

bryant     05/03/20 7:53 am  Yann at least is conservative.  He just wants
                                  to get people together to come to us and
                                  demand more communication.  Jarret is trying
                                  to rabblerouse for the sake fo doing damage.

bryant     05/03/20 7:53 am  I'll gather some names.
                                  

bryant     05/03/20 7:53 am  Jarret for sure.  I sent you his post.

sam        05/03/20 7:54 am  we shouldkill his account access immediately.

bryant     05/03/20 7:55 am  These people have such a deranged concept of
                                  how the law works it scares me.  What's worse
                                  is they declare these concepts as fact and
                                  other people eat it up.  It's genuinely
                                  frightening.  Never seen so much stupidity.
                                  It's really like watching a herd of angry
                                  sheep.  None of them know exactly why they're
                                  so worked up and none of them will stand out
                                  alone - but they're mad anyway.

bryant     05/03/20 7:57 am  Scott Bedard is calling for an organized
                                  effort but doesn't want to be leader, Jarret
                                  is openly saying he's ready to lead a "union"
                                  against us, "Dietrich" is suggesting they all
                                  pull banners at the same time and put
                                  disparaging comments up about us to force us
                                  into bankruptcy and embarass us.

bryant     05/03/20 7:59 am  Actually, "Dietrich" says he doesn't support
                                  that - but he's still suggesting it.

bryant     05/03/20 8:01 am  "J.B." from Emuplayer is supporting Yann on
                                  more constructive approaches.  He feels (as do
                                  some others) that eF succeeding is them
                                  succeeding.  Healthy attitude.

sam        05/03/20 8:05 am  we should stop killing their account access
                                  for violating the nondisclosure what do u
                                  think

sam        05/03/20 8:06 am  and tell them individually we have a record of
                                  everyone who's violating it

bryant     05/03/20 8:06 am  At some point we do need to start identifying
                                  problem children and separating them from the
                                  flock.  Don't mean kicking them out per se,
                                  but make ourselves clear nonetheless.

sam        05/03/20 8:06 am  we should probably do that sooner rather than
                                  latter

bryant     05/03/20 8:06 am  The more I read from Yann, the more
                                  conservative I find him.  I don't think he's
                                  one of the problem people at all.

sam        05/03/20 8:07 am  do we even have a problem with him? his
                                  contract expired.. just work out where he
                                  works for 4-5 months and we pay his backpay
                                  off?

bryant     05/03/20 8:07 am  I doubt it.  He's just talking about wanting
                                  better communication.  He doesn't seem bitter
                                  at all.

sam        05/03/20 8:08 am  marc said 5-6 are ready to sign..he just needs
                                  the addendum

bryant     05/03/20 8:08 am  Yeah, sent them once but the emails bounced.
                                  Servers been flakey recently.  I'll send them
                                  again tonight.

bryant     05/03/20 8:09 am  I get a lot of ppl telling me stuff to me
                                  bounces periodically as well.  Not sure what's
                                  up.

sam        05/03/20 8:09 am  should i tell scott we're going to terminate
                                  his access or should you

bryant     05/03/20 8:09 am  Bedard?

sam        05/03/20 8:09 am  or what do u suggest

sam        05/03/20 8:09 am  yeah

sam        05/03/20 8:10 am  and the addendums does have it so that they
                                  say they are signing this voluntarily, etc. so
                                  they cant get us for duress because of that

bryant     05/03/20 8:10 am  Lemme talk to him some more and see what he
                                  has to say.  The thing about these folks is
                                  they're friendly in direct convos, but them
                                  turn around and cause problems.  A little
                                  annoying.

sam        05/03/20 8:12 am  scott/gr took our banners off already
                                  
                                  basically, we have to tell him.. yes we're
                                  late in payments to buy the assets..which
                                  means we're in default and we have to work out
                                  a settlement.  yet, you are violating the
                                  nondisclosure clause, which we take seriously
                                  and at this point, we have no choice but to
                                  terminate your access and possibly bringing
                                  the site down until the issue is resolved

sam        05/03/20 8:20 am  anyone else close to signing the contracts
                                  soon?

sam        05/03/20 8:26 am  we're very close to terminating your service
                                  agreement due
                                   to not servicing the site appropriate,
                                  ignoring
                                   the non-competes, and causing irreparable
                                  harm
                                  by ignoring the non-disclosure..
                                  
                                  i'm about to send that to scott

sam        05/03/20 9:56 am  i think i have an idea for the whining
                                  webmasters..

sam        05/03/20 10:01 am i think i reached a deal with indianmasala

sam        05/03/20 10:15 am marc is msging me he didnt get the addendum..
                                  should i send it to him since your email is
                                  aving problems?  do you have a latest
                                  addendum.. or should i send him what i have

sam        05/03/20 10:15 am Marc: he might be sending it to
                                  marc@efront.com which is not my addy
                                  

sam        05/03/20 10:15 am marcd@efront.com
                                  
                                  is the right addresss

sam        05/03/20 10:48 am any luck on Johan?

sam        05/03/20 11:16 am maybe you can give me an update on which
                                  webmaster you're having trouble with on
                                  terms.. and i can step in and help.. i got
                                  indianmasala.com almost worked out

sam        05/03/20 11:50 am i think it would be best if you let jarret
                                  walk

sam        05/03/20 11:50 am we have too much celebrity traffic as it is

sam        05/03/20 11:50 am his traffic has little value to us

bryant     05/03/20 11:59 am Well, walk or no.  He seems to have people
                                  gathering around him.  Scott Bedard has told
                                  people you're on him about breach of
                                  contract/disclosure btw.

bryant     05/03/20 12:01 pm You really need to read this latest post.  Did
                                  you get the others I sent you?

sam        05/03/20 12:01 pm yes i did

bryant     05/03/20 12:02 pm I'll forward this one then.  It's a real
                                  problem.  Jarret's up on a soapbox and people
                                  are following him.  Something is going to have
                                  to be done.

sam        05/03/20 12:03 pm im sure he's whining about us breaching
                                  contract and pointing out that he is doing
                                  that too

bryant     05/03/20 12:03 pm He's going to talk to dblclick to negotiate a
                                  large deal for as many webmasters as will
                                  follow.  They'll all cut all our stuff off,
                                  and as many of them that have control over
                                  their domain names are going to put in
                                  redirects.

sam        05/03/20 12:03 pm haha.. good luck :)

sam        05/03/20 12:03 pm i wish it was that easy

bryant     05/03/20 12:03 pm I think he's actually breaking the law right
                                  now.

bryant     05/03/20 12:04 pm Not sure though.

sam        05/03/20 12:04 pm well, what do you recommend for all this?

bryant     05/03/20 12:04 pm Directly interfering with our capacity to
                                  conduct business.

bryant     05/03/20 12:04 pm Do we have access to a lawyer?

sam        05/03/20 12:04 pm yes we do

sam        05/03/20 12:04 pm we can havre a conf. call w/ you tuesday @
                                  930am

sam        05/03/20 12:04 pm hows that

sam        05/03/20 12:04 pm or too late?

bryant     05/03/20 12:04 pm I think that's a good idea.

bryant     05/03/20 12:05 pm Hmm, he has an addendum.

bryant     05/03/20 12:05 pm Hasn't faxed though.

sam        05/03/20 12:05 pm who does

bryant     05/03/20 12:05 pm Jarret

bryant     05/03/20 12:05 pm Just looking at his status.

sam        05/03/20 12:06 pm does he say he doesnt?

sam        05/03/20 12:06 pm oh ok

bryant     05/03/20 12:06 pm He under 18?

sam        05/03/20 12:06 pm yes he was

bryant     05/03/20 12:06 pm Know if he still is?

sam        05/03/20 12:06 pm i think he might still be

bryant     05/03/20 12:06 pm That would help us I think.

bryant     05/03/20 12:06 pm Makes his parents liable for his actions.

bryant     05/03/20 12:07 pm Good way to put the fear of death in him.  If
                                  we can talk to the lawyer tomorrow that's even
                                  better.  He has people who have been more than
                                  happy to work with me getting behind him.

bryant     05/03/20 12:07 pm I wouldn't say anything to him for the time
                                  being.

bryant     05/03/20 12:08 pm Going to be interesting to see how people I
                                  talk to respond to me tomorrow.

sam        05/03/20 12:10 pm oh i see jarret's post.. yeah

sam        05/03/20 12:10 pm im not worried bout the boycott.. probably
                                  good

sam        05/03/20 12:10 pm reduces our exposure and payment liabilities

sam        05/03/20 12:11 pm and puts more pressure on them since they wont
                                  be able to cut deals w/ anyone in this market

sam        05/03/20 12:11 pm bryant: Good way to put the fear of death in
                                  him.  If we can talk to the lawyer tomorrow
                                  that's even better.  He has people who have
                                  been more than happy to work with me getting
                                  behind him.
                                  
                                  
                                  [how do u mean he has poeople who have been
                                  more than happy to work..]

sam        05/03/20 12:14 pm ohhh ok i see

sam        05/03/20 12:15 pm maybe i can get tim eckel to post up there

bryant     05/03/20 12:30 pm Just meant that people I'm actively working
                                  deals with are chiming in saying they're
                                  behind him on this.  I'm just looking forward
                                  to seeing how they respond to me tomorrow.  I
                                  don't intend to let them know I'm watching.

bryant     05/03/20 12:30 pm Actually, there are already voices of reason.
                                  Skyler for example.  

sam        05/03/20 12:33 pm i have indianmasala almost wrapped up

sam        05/03/20 12:33 pm i'd like to get freevote.com signed up asap

sam        05/03/20 12:33 pm i hope nate is transferring that server

bryant     05/03/20 12:35 pm He just wants to be free of the site, so I
                                  don't think he's going to be a real problem -
                                  unless of course people get him all worked up.

sam        05/03/20 12:36 pm i just send nate a msg on the status of the
                                  move.  anyway you can draft the release/waiver
                                  and we can get it out to fv.com and part of
                                  that would say immediately, we're taking over
                                  all bills, etc
                                  

sam        05/03/20 12:36 pm i already got someone to run the site/ answer
                                  abuse, etc, @ 200/month

sam        05/03/20 12:37 pm whatever happened w/ classical.net

sam        05/03/20 12:38 pm looks like he took all the banners off

sam        05/03/20 12:51 pm i like the doubleclick approach jarret is
                                  taking..
                                  
                                  at least he's not talking legal action.. and
                                  he'll soon see that dblclick or anyone else
                                  wont accept new business
                                  
                                  doubleclick actually sent us a 90 day
                                  termination notice on the old contract a few
                                  weeks ago.. we'll be able to re-up though..
                                  probalby on terms favorable to them

sam        05/03/20 1:26 pm  oh ya.. any word on the addendum? do u know if
                                  u revised anything after i sent it to u.. (so
                                  i can send marc the latest one)

sam        05/03/20 9:37 pm  u therE?

bryant     05/03/20 11:38 pm What's up?

sam        05/03/20 11:38 pm i was going to send an email to the
                                  yahoogroups

sam        05/03/20 11:38 pm can you proofread it

bryant     05/03/20 11:39 pm Sure.

bryant     05/03/20 11:39 pm So we have someone who is English/French
                                  fluent?

sam        05/03/20 11:41 pm alex.. why?

bryant     05/03/20 11:45 pm Hebus is asking for a french translation of
                                  some of the paragraphs all of a sudden.

sam        05/03/20 11:46 pm tell him we don't have the resources to do
                                  that?

sam        05/03/20 11:46 pm alex is online if you like.. i can give you
                                  his icq

bryant     05/03/20 11:46 pm ok cool

sam        05/03/20 11:48 pm ok i sent you the email

sam        06/03/20 12:02 am what do u think? any changes? will this help
                                  you in the negotiations? or hurt?

bryant     06/03/20 12:02 am optimus-prime isn't responding to me, so I
                                  haven't been able to pull it down yet.

bryant     06/03/20 12:06 am Yeah, I think that will help a lot.

sam        06/03/20 12:06 am no changes needed?

bryant     06/03/20 12:06 am I don't think so.

sam        06/03/20 12:18 am yahoo gruops bounced the email back

sam        06/03/20 12:19 am should i sent it to everyone through bcc or
                                  ask skyler to distribute it?

bryant     06/03/20 12:19 am Maybe BCC then.

sam        06/03/20 12:20 am i was thinking if we put it on yahoogroups..
                                  people have to respond to that directly..
                                  instead of thinking we're not there and
                                  attacking in open forum

sam        06/03/20 12:20 am did you notice that noone replied to joann'as
                                  newsletter

bryant     06/03/20 12:20 am Yep.

bryant     06/03/20 12:21 am That's true.

sam        06/03/20 12:21 am so what do u think.. bcc or send to skyler to
                                  post?

sam        06/03/20 12:21 am ill just send to skyler :)

bryant     06/03/20 12:21 am I think either way, but I think you're right
                                  about making it completely obvious we're on
                                  the forums is probably a good thing.

bryant     06/03/20 12:21 am Yeah.

bryant     06/03/20 12:52 am Looks like Hebus is not going to sign.

bryant     06/03/20 12:53 am Looks like quite a few people that were going
                                  to FAX no longer intend to.

sam        06/03/20 1:10 am  because of the email we sent?

bryant     06/03/20 1:10 am  No idea why.

bryant     06/03/20 1:10 am  I can't imagine because of the email.

bryant     06/03/20 1:11 am  I suppose it's probably because of convos
                                  they're having amongst themselves.

sam        06/03/20 1:11 am  well what option do they have

sam        06/03/20 1:12 am  i think everyone was invited to the webmaster
                                  egroup from the newsletter emails or
                                  something.. not sure

bryant     06/03/20 1:12 am  Not sure.

bryant     06/03/20 1:14 am  Richard Benson of Freeskills is saying in the
                                  forum that he wants to give up the $, return
                                  options, and take freeskills.com back.

sam        06/03/20 1:14 am  NO WAY

sam        06/03/20 1:14 am  thats not a settlement

sam        06/03/20 1:15 am  his contract gives us the right to sell
                                  freeskills and we'll do that

sam        06/03/20 1:15 am  oops didnt mean caps:)

bryant     06/03/20 1:15 am  He's only putting that in the forum to cause
                                  problems.

sam        06/03/20 1:15 am  plus we dont negotiate in a forum

bryant     06/03/20 1:15 am  He already told everyone you said we could
                                  sell it.

sam        06/03/20 1:15 am  sure..

sam        06/03/20 1:16 am  i wouldnt worry about him right now

sam        06/03/20 1:16 am  lets just sign up one at a time

sam        06/03/20 1:16 am  so hebus is dead? do you have his icq

bryant     06/03/20 1:16 am  Yep, that's how we're working.

bryant     06/03/20 1:16 am  6299019

sam        06/03/20 1:17 am  btw, working out a settlement doesnt mean
                                  giving the site back.. we should ask for the
                                  payments we made to them or soemthing as well

bryant     06/03/20 1:17 am  Yep, I'm not telling anyone out is an option.
                                  I'm also not saying that it's not.

bryant     06/03/20 1:18 am  I've had ppl ask for the sake of posting in
                                  the eGroup - just not answering.

bryant     06/03/20 1:18 am  There's no good answer to that.

sam        06/03/20 1:26 am  who is this pierre guy

bryant     06/03/20 1:26 am  Not sure.

sam        06/03/20 1:27 am  hebus has no issues.. we need to tweak his
                                  agreement a little

sam        06/03/20 1:28 am  btw, can you check hebus's agreement.. does it
                                  have an out clause of any kind

sam        06/03/20 1:30 am  also we dont have a payment problem with
                                  richard

sam        06/03/20 1:30 am  from freeskills

sam        06/03/20 1:30 am  we're on schedule

sam        06/03/20 1:35 am  btw, do you know who posted the email to
                                  yahooegroups?

sam        06/03/20 1:58 am  my email was bad i think
                                  
                                  too many choices for people now :(

sam        06/03/20 2:10 am  for jarret, we need to have someone complain
                                  about his copyright pictures.. and we can then
                                  issue him a 24 hour notice to take the
                                  pictures down or we have to shut the site off


sam        06/03/20 11:01 am is the mood calming down

sam        06/03/20 11:43 am i bcc'd you about babynames

sam        06/03/20 1:04 pm  im trying a new strategy

sam        06/03/20 1:21 pm  I killed accss to cinemadesktopthemes.com ..
                                  we killed the popup he's been running since
                                  day one for galttech.  also, i've given orders
                                  to kill animanga's access.  his contract
                                  expired; we just have to work out the backpay.
                                  
                                  
                                  any others that is giving us problems, let me
                                  know.. i'd like to kill access right away and
                                  have someone take it over while putting
                                  pressure on them to work with us.
#39 by "Reb"
2001-03-09 17:16:02
rebpizer@yahoo.com
Sweet, cut and pasted that's a 99 page Word file.
#40 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:16:14
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
Hmm, that's a whole load of stuff...
Enjoy it people!

Joker.
#41 by "enyak"
2001-03-09 17:31:42
enyak@planetcrap.com
Thanks, flamey.
#42 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 17:33:26
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
#41

LOL

Joker.
#43 by "Topaz"
2001-03-09 17:48:02
Wow. Thanks for the posting. Is what the original link (now broken) was pointing to?
#44 by "The Joker"
2001-03-09 18:03:38
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
#43

Yup all of it is in here now.

Joker.
#45 by "Monk"
2001-03-09 18:31:55
monk@tampabay.rr.com
99 page? Did you paste as html? Use paste special and paste as unformatted text.. Makes a nice little 13 page file.
#46 by "Dr Bob"
2001-03-09 18:56:06
drbob@nomates.org
If you're following the thread on the SA forums (how long until that gets yanked, I wonder?), you'll see that the guy who was originally sent the logs claims to have a whole load more log files from them, totalling some 3+ Mb.

No doubt they'll be up on a server near you soon. It would be kind of interesting reading the ICQ messages between those two this morning :)

I wonder how they originally got out - hacking or an inside job? Perhaps one of their employees got fed up being offered worthless stock options.

-- Bob
#47 by "Rantage"
2001-03-09 18:58:58
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
What utter scumbags.
#48 by "Reb"
2001-03-09 19:15:43
rebpizer@yahoo.com
Yeah, pasted 'em as HTML.  Maybe not as compact, but at least they look pretty.
#49 by "Karl Palutke"
2001-03-09 19:16:32
karl@digitalsavagery.com
Right now the efront guys are frantically searching the net for a German-language cease&desist letter to send to Morn to get him to remove Joker's posts . .
#50 by "Vengeance"
2001-03-09 19:17:34
I'm a little lost in all this as I don't pay much attention to the "scene", but it looks pretty dispicable.

Next question.  I hate assholes, how can i hurt these people with my $?


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