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GeForce 3, Doom III, oh my!
February 22nd 2001, 14:23 MSK by Morn This is all over the web, so it can't hurt if we mention it here as well. <a href="http://video.cnet.com:80/cnet_news/template/ramgen.cgi?cpcode=674&asset=http://cnetnews.download.akamai.com/674/t022101_2200hi.rm&start=2166&end=506966&xtn=.ram">This RealVideo movie</a> of Steve Jobs' MacWorld keynote contains, yes, (supposedly) real-time footage of id's Doom III (running on nVidia's new GeForce 3, also known as NV20). And boy oh boy, does it looks nice! You can find more info on <a href="http://www.shugashack.com">the Shack</a>, <a href="http://www.voodooextreme.com">VoodooExtreme</a>, <a href="http://www.bluesnews.com">Blue's news</a> and very likely every other gaming site on the planet. Also thanks to everyone who emailed/ICQ'd us about this. |
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Topic: GeForce 3, Doom III, oh my!
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Anybody here have a favorite band? Thought so. Any of your favorite bands ever put out an album that was worse than one before it? Thought so. But did they go on to make better albums? Thought so. (If not, why in the hell are they your favorite band?????) So why can't Romero screw up once and make a comeback? G.G. Allin...game, set, match. ^M^ |
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WHY IN THE HELL IS THE GEFORCE 2 DEAD ALREADY? I bought a GEForce2 MX 3 months ago (still very happy with it) for 300 guilders (+/- 120 bucks?) so am I going to have to invest 600 guilders in a new videocard ALREADY? Or are you guys just the ultimate geeks that want to brag about their superior hardware? "Oh, that GEForce 2 thing is SOOOOOOO last tuesday!" :) (faggy) Besides, if they keep pushing the limit on hardware, they'll lose cuz no-one will buy a game if they can't play it unless they spend another 600 bucks. Those days are over. Look at how popular graphically limited games such as Half-Life and StarCraft still are! |
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#91: Shenmue is graphically L337 in the sense that it featured some very VERY fine girls (gorgeously modelled, too). OK there's not much lighting and stuff going on in there, but in terms of poly counts it rocks your box! (OMG that is one stupid remark...'rocks your box'! I've been hanging round in American kid chats too much and watched too much sitcoms!!!!) #92: *cough* Limp Bizkit *cough* Want some more reasoning? John Romero...Ion Storm...cash money bling bling....large glass penthouse....JOHN ROMERO'S daikatana.....stuckup little dwarf with large ego and stupid dreads... want to hear more? |
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Anybody here have a favorite band? Thought so. Any of your favorite bands ever put out an album that was worse than one before it? Thought so. But did they go on to make better albums? Thought so. That generally happens when they try to stretch beyond their artistic ability or they decide to do something different. What part of Daikatana really pushed game design or tried something no other game had done? And a follow-up record probably won't take 3-4 years go complete. But hey, I'm just skeptical. Romero could create the next Half-Life or DOOM. If it's in him, I wish he would. But again, nothing in Daikatana showed me any design skills or originality. He effectively had a blank check to create the game of his dreams and... well, look at the end result. |
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If one has played a "key role" in some of the world's most coveted titles, how does one produce a flop like Daikatana? Simple: he overshot his bounds. I think Romero is a very, very talented developer. Romero's Doom work is brilliant, pure and simple. He designed some of the greatest multiplayer maps ever for Quake 1. He thought he could pull off a very ambitious, potentially innovative title in a very short period of time. Obviously that didn't happen. There is some good stuff in Daikatana, but it feels like a hastily thrown together game, and in many ways downright amateurish. If Romero had gotten together a hardcore team of developers (or managed to hold onto them - let's not forget some of the A+++ talent that at one point was on the dev team) and managed them right the game would have been much, much different. Would it have been another Half-Life? We'll never know. Personally I doubt it, but I really was quietly hoping things would turn out all right for Daikatana. As to the person who said he just played the original Doom and found it boring, well...you're entitled to your opinion. I found Planescape Torment boring, and a lot of people love that one. I didn't like The Matrix either, and lord knows i'm in the minority there. -jason |
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off-topic, but: Speaking of Limp Bisquick...you always assume someone like Fred Durst is a prick. Then comes proof positive... ^M^ |
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Anybody here have a favorite band? Thought so. Any of your favorite bands ever put out an album that was worse than one before it? Thought so. But did they go on to make better albums? Thought so. (If not, why in the hell are they your favorite band?????) Does your favorite band consider that watered down, overly trite, completely shallow album its best album ever? Romero does. |
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Okay, new argument. Anyone here read Arthur Conan Doyle? You like Sherlock Holmes? The Sherlock Holmes books are classic works of literature. The best detective stories EVER. Now, do you know about Doyle and Harry Houdini? About Doyle's complete gullibility and belief in every crackpot ghost theory of the time? About how he wanted to be remembered for his belief in spirits and spirit mediums. Here is an extraordinarily talented writer who wanted to be remembered for his faults. People can do good things in spite of themselves. |
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About Doyle's complete gullibility and belief in every crackpot ghost theory of the time? About how he wanted to be remembered for his belief in spirits and spirit mediums. Here is an extraordinarily talented writer who wanted to be remembered for his faults. People can do good things in spite of themselves. Maybe but then again Doyle didn't want to be remember for one crap book he wrote after his greats. Maybe Romaro would produce good work again if the management stuff was put back into better hands, maybe he wouldn't who knows. If any of that footage is from stuff that will make it into the game it's clear id doesn't need him to get the same feel so why risk it. |
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#100 Jason Said: I didn't like The Matrix either, and lord knows i'm in the minority there. I'm in the minority too! I didn't like it either. |
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Jason and everybody, DOOM was a fun shooter with great technology for its time, but it had shallow (single-player) gameplay and was completely devoid of a storyplot, fresh ideas and a cohesive theme (ok, so it was Hell..) The question is: Do we really want another DOOM (or Quake 2) with updated graphics? Well, here's how my Dream-NextGen-DOOM looks like (beware - long and too-much-time-syndrome): First of, I REALLY hope you start the game off with an AI-controlled Marine Squad (Aliens-style). And I don't want to see UT-like AI, warping all over the place - these guys should move slowly and in a realistic manner, checking corners, etc. :) Ok, anyway, the squad's mission is to check out a space station, which HQ lost contact with recently (etc :-). So our squad starts scanning the area - all quiet. Then (for some staged reason) we find a maintainance tunnel, which the squad's leader has the glorious idea of entering of course. :) So the whole squad enters the cramped tunnel, crouching on their stomachs, accompanied by blue, cold emergency light. As the squad reaches a junction the squad leader decides to split into two groups of two marines. So you and your partner continue crouching thru the tunnel. Suddenly it happens - the light goes OFF - PITCHBLACK. Seconds pass, your squad starts yelling of intercom, you can hear their fear rising to terror. There's some kind of noise coming nearer to you, there's also sustained gunfire nearby. You activate the lamps on your combat-rifle and BOOM - you stare directly into the decomposed face of a rotting zombie scientiest, preparing to make you his lunch. You back away frantically, squeezing the firetrigger, flooding the tunnel in strobo-light. The mutant gets teared down by bullets, falling over in a bloody hunk of flesh, but then you don't want to stay to check just how dead he really is. As you head back to the junction, the nearby gunfire gets louder and you finally see your squad fighting off a group of mutants. In a corner you see one your comrades' body, messed up beyond belief. Ok, etc, etc. I could go on, but this is how I'd like the new DOOM game to feel. :-) Basically, I don't care how (un)original the setting is, I just want it to scream atmosphere. -enyak |
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I still play Quake 1, it's a top notch game and it was Id's biggest seller. Q2 didn't sell as well and I doubt Q3 did nearly as well as either. Carmack said they'd go the single player route if Q3 didn't do well and they are going the sp route. BTW, I already played Doom 3. It's ok but the graphics sucked big time. :) Final Doom is the 3rd Doom game, damn newbies keep calling this new Doom, Doom 3 but it's not the 3rd. It's the 4th. |
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Toad, Bah, Ultimate Doom was just one additional episode. How does that qualify for a real sequel? :) -enyak |
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"DOOM was a fun shooter with great technology for its time, but it had shallow (single-player) gameplay and was completely devoid of a storyplot, fresh ideas and a cohesive theme (ok, so it was Hell..) The question is: Do we really want another DOOM (or Quake 2) with updated graphics?" Yes, every game doesn't have to pretend to be a movie or be the most thought provoking game ever. We need fun, pointless games too. Besides, what game out there is like Doom? It's not like it's a forumla that's been used in awhile because we haven't been able to do it in awhile. It'll be a nice change. Right now fps games are focused on multiplayer(yet they're not really any better than games that had both) or they're trying to clone half-life. Let's have some more variety and have a game like Doom that's nothing more than killing tons of enemies and blood every where. :) |
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I said Final Doom, not Ultimate Doom. Final Doom was a new game, well as new as Doom 2 was. :) |
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Points to ponder I don't have a favorite band. I like good songs. If you don't make good songs I don't like your band. There is a point in this, see if you goobers can find it. Romero has the mental capacity of rotting fruit. I'm sure he can cobble a few doom levels together. But you can teach a chimp to do that. I think he had little to do with the success of Doom. Doom, played the shareware version, beat it, uninstalled it. Never looked back. Quake, played about 2/3 through, got bored, never have finished it. Half life, Never finished it. It bored me. Seems the games you guys find seminal, I find dull and boring. I think this points to the fact your easy to entertain, but too l33t to enjoy games that are not subscriber to your narrow world view (or maybe game view). But on the bright side, you still make me laugh |
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DOOM was a fun shooter with great technology for its time, but it had shallow (single-player) gameplay Don't be silly. Yes, it could be seen as shallow by today's standards, but Doom certainly wasn't at the time. Certainly not when you compare it to the flood of FMV games coming out at the same time. The question is: Do we really want another DOOM (or Quake 2) with updated graphics? I think this movie, however brief, shows that they're not doing that at all. It seemed very obvious to me that they are aiming for real atmosphere with this game. I fully expect to be completely scared witless by this new Doom (just as I was with the original). -jason |
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I can't believe I'm posting this much...somebody shoot me. Romero has the mental capacity of rotting fruit. I'm sure he can cobble a few doom levels together. But you can teach a chimp to do that. I think he had little to do with the success of Doom. Did you ever make a level for Doom? It was hardly easy to create one that anyone would care to play in, and that's not even factoring in the tools they had to work with. I think it's pretty obvious that whatever his faults, Romero has a brain. He was a game designer when being a game designer meant writing, programming and executing everything by yourself. Seems the games you guys find seminal, I find dull and boring. I think this points to the fact your easy to entertain, but too l33t to enjoy games that are not subscriber to your narrow world view (or maybe game view). Where the heck did this come from? Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but then, so am I and others who happen to think Doom is brilliant. I don't think it takes a particularly "l33t" person to like Doom at all...in fact I have plenty of friends that have only a couple of PC games in their lives for any substantial amount of time, and guess what? Doom was one (the others would be Duke 3D and The Sims). Yeesh. -jason |
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#111 "Romero has the mental capacity of rotting fruit. I'm sure he can cobble a few doom levels together. But you can teach a chimp to do that. " Why, I'm living proof! |
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Whine whine, 'I cant justify $600' shut, the, fuck, up. Points 1) It wont be that price on release 2) Itll come down in price 3) nobody is FORCING you 4) How much did SLI Voodoo 2s AND the Vga card cost .... thats right MORE THAN $600 5) $600 for V2s 2-3 years ago translates t $800-$1000 in todays money given the standard law of currency devaluation Doom Redux is due in 8-24 months, Nvidia have a product cycle of 6 months, The Geforce and Gef2 cards will run it fine, the Gf3 is just _intensely_ wonderful _NOW_. By the time you come around to get Doom N, there will be 3-4 new product generations and the Gef3 will be 'budget' or common standard, just like the Gf2 mx is now. In fact, Id almost be willing to bet, inside 3-5 months youll see the Geforce 3Mx. til then, kindly shut the fuck up about the price. In Carmacks words, 'If youre into graphics rush out and buy one, gamers can wait' Ds |
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/ramble mode on I didn't really get into the first Doom, but I loved Doom II. That's still one of my top five games ever. I can see how some people may not have liked it (its a love it, or hate it type experience), but out of the early FPS's I have to give DOOM II major props, along with Dark Forces - as those are a couple of the games that made me give up consoles. |
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Gunpoint: WHY IN THE HELL IS THE GEFORCE 2 DEAD ALREADY? I bought a GEForce2 MX 3 months ago (still very happy with it) for 300 guilders (+/- 120 bucks?) so am I going to have to invest 600 guilders in a new videocard ALREADY? Or are you guys just the ultimate geeks that want to brag about their superior hardware? "Oh, that GEForce 2 thing is SOOOOOOO last tuesday!" :) (faggy) The fact that you just bought one 3 months doesn't change the fact that the GeForce2 has been out for much longer than that. The obsolescence clock doesn't start ticking when YOU buy something. Besides, if they keep pushing the limit on hardware, they'll lose cuz no-one will buy a game if they can't play it unless they spend another 600 bucks. Those days are over. Is Doom3 coming out the same time as the GeForce3? No? OK good, then if you wait until Doom3 comes out before buying one, they will cost a lot less than $600. Problem solved. asspennies: Does your favorite band consider that watered down, overly trite, completely shallow album its best album ever? Romero does. What's he going to say? "Well, Daikatana is gold! ... but don't buy it, it sucks!" Chella Kline Half life, Never finished it. It bored me. Seems the games you guys find seminal, I find dull and boring. I think this points to the fact your easy to entertain, but too l33t to enjoy games that are not subscriber to your narrow world view (or maybe game view). But on the bright side, you still make me laugh At least we can spell and use proper sentence structure. Literacy=good. I'm getting the impression you're one of those annoying people who hates anything that gets popular. |
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BTW, my favorite band is the Pixies, and for the record, they never had a bad album - or ever even wrote a bad song - how many bands can say that? Certainly not Romero and the Hairs. Regardless - Romero could, at this point, say "Daikatana wasn't my best game, I admit - but I liked parts of it blah blah blah" and we'd all believe him, after all, it's not like he's going to sell more copies by adamantly defending the game now, when it's a bargin bin reject. But he still says its his best game ever. Pride? Ego? Stupidity? Who knows, I won't judge the man, but I will judge the games, and frankly, I was insulted that I was expected to play Daikatana. Oh, I did, all the way through...and it was a travesty beyond description. And I'm not exaggerating - it was painful to play, waiting for something good, or something fun, to happen, and it never, ever did. All things considered, though, I wasn't a first person shooter fan until Half-Life - I never understood people's fascination with Doom (I was playing Decent around Doom 2 time and had a lot more fun with it) but more power to them if that's what they like. Still, it would explain why I didn't like Daikatana very much at all - "Doom Style" gameplay never turned by crank (I don't like Serious Sam, either) - and why I'm very concerned that the next Doom will suck. Suck Donkey Balls, even. Oh, but the engine will kick ass. |
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Given the content of this completely un-diplomatic trash, I'm going to assume your calling me out. Fair enough, let's have a go at it. Whine whine, 'I cant justify $600' Read again, I said $600 is just fine, the $1K CAD is the problem. shut, the, fuck, up. I said my piece and moved on, but now I need to come back and say more, shoulda taken your own advise if that's what you really wanted, cause now I'm back. Points 1) It wont be that price on release OK, so how much? You got anything better in writing from a reputable source, or should we just use the confirmed price I used? 2) Itll come down in price So what. You think it will be half price in 6 months when the new card comes out to replace it? Or should I wait six more months after that, and have a fit at the price of the GF4? Cards appear to be comming out faster than the prices come down on them. That's driving up ASP's. Mabey I should just go buy an old 3d blaster annihilator 2 ultra, I mean, it's old, the price has come down, and gee, I see it listed on onvia.ca for only $906.00 with tax. Looks like a fucking deal to me. You'd be screaming if you had to pay prices like that too, so how about you shut the fuck up instead. Boy, I wonder what the annihilator 3 will cost, should be OK though since the price will drop. Fuck that. But like you said, it's going to be awhile until I need to worry about doom3, by then, you can check back here and see my lastest version of this regluarly featured whine about the GF4, mabey even 5. 3) nobody is FORCING you Did you see that video? Carmak is forcing me. That kicked ass, and I want it, so sue me. 4) How much did SLI Voodoo 2s AND the Vga card cost .... thats right MORE THAN $600 SLI Voodoo 2's were not 600 bucks each, you did not have to buy two of them if you did not want to, and in fact, I bought neither, I got me a banshee at the time, 2D, and 3D, one card, and it sure as hell wasn't $1K. 5) $600 for V2s 2-3 years ago translates t $800-$1000 in todays money given the standard law of currency devaluation Voodoo 2's were not 600 dollar cards as I recall, and if it was $1000USD today, wow, you'd be really pissed with the message I would have posted. I guess, I was wrong though, perhaps I should be writing a letter to Nvidia thanking them for the awesome price on the video card in the day and age where you can get a computer complete with monitor for not much more than the price of this card...and they even include a video card. Amazing. Doom Redux is due in 8-24 months, Nvidia have a product cycle of 6 months, The Geforce and Gef2 cards will run it fine, the Gf3 is just _intensely_ wonderful _NOW_. By the time you come around to get Doom N, there will be 3-4 new product generations and the Gef3 will be 'budget' or common standard, just like the Gf2 mx is now. Great, I can see that's going to help me a lot. I'll be wanting something even more expensive then. In fact, Id almost be willing to bet, inside 3-5 months youll see the Geforce 3Mx. Great, I'll probably be in the market right around then, lets hope they get the price right on it. But I imagine I'll just grab the GF2MX at that time since it will make the most sence. til then, kindly shut the fuck up about the price. Not too much kind about this message so lets not pretend it is. But having said that I'll be posting my opinion here whenever the hell I feel like it. I bet I do it again when I hear the price of the XBOX too. Should be interesting. You may want to save this message so you can autorespond when I do. In Carmacks words, 'If youre into graphics rush out and buy one, gamers can wait' Sounds good to me, but they sure are nice. |
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Seems the games you guys find seminal, I find dull and boring. I think this points to the fact your easy to entertain, but too l33t to enjoy games that are not subscriber to your narrow world view (or maybe game view). Just wondering what l33t games do you find interesting or are you nothing but the random moMo that bitches about every game? I never understood people's fascination with Doom (I was playing Decent around Doom 2 time and had a lot more fun with it) but more power to them if that's what they like. I couldn't stand the way Decent played at the time. Granted when I first played it it was with the keyboard and mouse (got a joystick much latter and enjoyed the game a great deal). Doom/Doom2 was always good for a good quick ran between what ever else I happned to be doing. I've grown quite a bit in that time and do want something much more from Doom X (or it just could be that there are some many other games out there that are nice simple fun for a quick go around, and have nothing to do with my gaming growth). |
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Warren, I have *never* understood why some people take pleasure in tearing down the things that other people enjoy. Is it really the only way to make them feel worth anything? How sad. * does a little dance for Chella Kline's entertainment * |
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I never said a voodoo 2 was 600 I said Voodoo 2 SLI was 600 .. ie TWO voodoo 2 cards PLUS the vga card you HAD to have to use them. and you can bet there were a fucking load of people who got one for $300ish (closer to $450 real money today) then went out and got another, AFTER theyd already bought a $50+ Vga card. the banshee came out several months AFTER the v2s, heck it could have been as much as 8 months Im fuzzy on exact dates, its performance was barely above the V1, and it cost around the $170 mark. (250ish todays money) Carmack ISNT forcing you, hes stated itll run fine on Gf, Gf2, just like Quake 3 runs just fine on a Tnt2, hell on a Tnt1, just about any card with a T&L engine. Point, Hercules Geforce 2 Gts, $300, Innovision Geforce 2 Gts, $199....... _that_ is why the card wont be $600, especially as Apple charge a premium and are offering it as a $350 upgrade over the Gef2 MX ... for a downclocked version. Youll see it costing marginally about the 2 utlras with 32mb, 64mb and 128mb versions. The Quadro version will probably slap the 600 mark silly, but then with that much grunt in a CAD capable card you know theyre aiming at the likes of intergraph which are multi $K. screaming about taxes? Ahuh, yeah and the UK is reknown for ultra low taxes, thats why anyone with money fucks off right out of the country for tax havens. Lemme give you an example cholly. Pricewatch some Geforce GTS cards, theyll pop up for around $159 for the 'cheapy' versions like innovision. Take a $1.41 to £1 currency rate, soooo, thats roughly divide by 3 multiply by 2 (roughly), so say £105 for a GTS. Now check the retail prices fromthe likes of Dabs.co.uk, say an asustek which is £150 + 17.5% VAT (sales tax), so £176... which converts back up to $264ish close to 60% above the usa price. Sooo, looks like Canada isnt the only country gets gouged on gear. oh and consider that an average wage here for techs like me is £16k, which is barely scratching $25k usd. Gas is $6 a gallon, internet costs are 10-20x that of the US.... Welcome to the land of fucked up prices and monopolies (tho nothing as bad as that insurance scam you got going on in CA) Ds |
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And Barney, its aimed at _all_ the damn whiners across the various boards who Ive heard yammer on about the card costing so much. so, what. gonna complain when Bmw release a new model for $30k, when a $5k hyundai would get people from a-b ? Ds |
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The Romero Daikatana wasn't a bad game, but It wasn' a great game. John came up with some great ideas with Daikatana is just that some were badly executed and the amount of features (Rpg leveling, Buddies, that Sword, the off beat style of weaponry) choked the experiece and didn't add to it. I think this was inpartly because of his want to smash iD that their own game and enforce "DESIGN IS LAW!" Should JR return to Id? No, he should not. I dont think he made any levels for Daik. He's just a designer/manager now. Id clearly dont need another level designer or game designer, but Id do need a writer. The plot and story will be critical if Doom3 is to be a success. Just "fastdarkscary"(Tom Hall) wont be enough. And what the hell was that deamon thing? I say a baron, my friend thinks it an Imp. I need newDoom to be fantastic, anything else would be the murder of a classic. |
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And Barney, its aimed at _all_ the damn whiners across the various boards who Ive heard yammer on about the card costing so much. so, what. gonna complain when Bmw release a new model for $30k, when a $5k hyundai would get people from a-b ? Um, no offense but $600 US is a LOT of money for a graphics card. I don't mind paying for quality, but $600 for a freaking 3D card is STUPID (I don't care how much money you make, there are limits to acceptable spending). |
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Romero has the mental capacity of rotting fruit. I'm sure he can cobble a few doom levels together. But you can teach a chimp to do that. I think he had little to do with the success of Doom. Doom, played the shareware version, beat it, uninstalled it. Never looked back. That shareware version you played. Romero made every single level for that. Needless to say he is a mapping genious and deserved credit for that. |
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And Barney, its aimed at _all_ the damn whiners across the various boards who Ive heard yammer on about the card costing so much. so, what. gonna complain when Bmw release a new model for $30k, when a $5k hyundai would get people from a-b ? Ds Well, geee. Now I don't feel special anymore. I was really hoping that was aimed at me. On the topic of that BMW... glad you brought that up actually. If I could get a new model beemer in Canada here for only $30K, well, I'd be in heaven. You see, there is this little problem I have with the USD, well, it's even worse with the pound. It takes fully, about $2.12CAD to buy one pound, and that does evil things to the price of a BMW around here. I'll just keep using my $30K '94 pontiac for now I guess, the beemer just might come down in price right? But I suspect you've already heard this story. :) |
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Um, no offense but $600 US is a LOT of money for a graphics card. I don't mind paying for quality, but $600 for a freaking 3D card is STUPID (I don't care how much money you make, there are limits to acceptable spending). Right. Which is why you don't have to buy one right away if you don't want to ... if you have some semblance of self control, you can wait until they get cheaper. Is there any reason to run out and get a GF3 the day they come out? That's a big "No". So what's everyones problem? Let nvidia gouge the people who HAVE to have things the day they come out ... what harm does it do to you? |
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Shit, I missed your first reply, let me cover that now. I'm going to snip a bunch of it though so as not to appear to be completely anal. and you can bet there were a fucking load of people who got one for $300ish (closer to $450 real money today) then went out and got another, AFTER theyd already bought a $50+ Vga card. Crazy stuff eh? It certainly wasn't me buying that stuff. But at least computers still had a hefty enough price tag to make that not seem as bad as it does now. It's just completely crazy now in comparison. the banshee came out several months AFTER the v2s, heck it could have been as much as 8 months Im fuzzy on exact dates, its performance was barely above the V1, and it cost around the $170 mark. (250ish todays money) It's performance was amazing in 2D(like anyone cares anymore, I know), and great, close to V2 speeds as long as you did not get messed up in the dual texture stuff, and at the time, I was a TF nut, and being a Q1 engine game, it provided plenty of benifit over the V1 card it replaced. At the time Q2 was the game that needed the dual texture to shine in all it's glory, I made my way through the single player, and shelved it to play more TF. Carmack ISNT forcing you, hes stated itll run fine on Gf, Gf2, just like Quake 3 runs just fine on a Tnt2, hell on a Tnt1, just about any card with a T&L engine. Good, if it plays out the way I expect it to, hopfully, it will not suck too much on a GF2MX. _that_ is why the card wont be $600, especially as Apple charge a premium and are offering it as a $350 upgrade over the Gef2 MX ... And lets not get to thinking that Apple is offering it for only 350, the price of the GF2MX is still buried in there, and they are reaming their customers for it as usuall. which converts back up to $264ish close to 60% above the usa price. Sooo, looks like Canada isnt the only country gets gouged on gear. So you get screwed too, you are allowed to complain a bit, I wont bitch you out for it. Let it out, lets bitch a bit, it's good for the inner being. oh and consider that an average wage here for techs like me is £16k, which is barely scratching $25k usd. Gas is $6 a gallon, internet costs are 10-20x that of the US.... Welcome to the land of fucked up prices and monopolies (tho nothing as bad as that insurance scam you got going on in CA) There we go, that's more like it. Now your talking my language. That's talk I understand only too well. Sucks that we buy graphic cards from companies based in the US, who buy cheap labour in places like Mexico, Korea and Tiwan, then turn around, and charge us prices like the godamn part was made in the US, while pocketing the difference while otherwise perfectly good Americans work jobs flipping burgers. If I'm going to pay American prices, I'd at least like to think there's an American out there somewhere getting a decent job because of it. Pisses me off I tell ya. |
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Right. Which is why you don't have to buy one right away if you don't want to ... if you have some semblance of self control, you can wait until they get cheaper. Is there any reason to run out and get a GF3 the day they come out? That's a big "No". So what's everyones problem? Let nvidia gouge the people who HAVE to have things the day they come out ... what harm does it do to you? Well, if they keep releasing cards at a six month clip, and each new card that comes out, is a bit more expensive than the previous one was when it was new, that drives up the ASP over time. Eventually, you will be in the same boat waiting out for prices to come down, when in fact, there is a chance they never will since the part will be dropped as a SKU and replaced by something newer before it ever hits that sweet spot in prices. Things would be better if there were more design shops out there capable of competing at the level Nvidia is, just to keep their feet to the fire so to speak. But with the competition shrinking, I'm a bit worried. Kind of off topic a bit, and I do get the point your trying to make, but I think you are a bit less alarmed with the situation since you probably don't have to use monopoly money anymore to buy shit. |
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Warren wrote: [quote}Right. Which is why you don't have to buy one right away if you don't want to ... if you have some semblance of self control, you can wait until they get cheaper. Is there any reason to run out and get a GF3 the day they come out? That's a big "No". So what's everyones problem? Let nvidia gouge the people who HAVE to have things the day they come out ... what harm does it do to you? No shit, you could quadruple my salary and give me a million bucks a year and that $600 price tag would be too damn much. I mean come on man – you get what you pay for, but this is ridiculous! |
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whoops, forgot to close my quote tags - doh. |
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Warren's right...why all the bitching? Being an early adopter is expensive. They are likely $600 because they can be. Lack of competition will do that. But the prices will drop in 6 months and there really won't be any games that NEED a GF3 at launch. Those will be a year away. But I will get one just to get good framerates on Giants. |
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George wrote: Being an early adopter is expensive. They are likely $600 because they can be. Lack of competition will do that. But the prices will drop in 6 months and there really won't be any games that NEED a GF3 at launch. Those will be a year away. But I will get one just to get good framerates on Giants. Yeah, George is right - in a few months they are bound to become much less expensive (esp for people who recently bought a GF2 Ultra) and by the time DOOM III is released, they are sure to be averagely priced. I think Giants runs outstanding though on a GF2 ultra - esp after Planet Moon releases the next patch, which will plug a lot of the memory leaks (the biggest slow-down issue). |
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#133 It will never be possible to get decent framerates in Giants ;-) I dunno why ppl say the gf 2 is old as dirt, the gf1 I got in my machine still whoops ass in any game I throw at it, even UT ;-) |
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I was going to talk about how much my GF2 Ultra rules, and then you all started talking about Giants and proved it =) I run Giants in 1024X768 with all the features turned up (of course) and the framerate never stutters. I'm sure I could play it in a higher resolution but that one is fine for me. Is the GF3 going to be better than my GF2 Ultra? Of course. But is it going to make it obsolete? Of course not. Maybe I won't be able to run Doom 3 (or 4, or Doom 2002 or whatever it's going to be called) at the highest possible resolution with 256 meg textures and whatever. But I will be able to play it, and it will look great. And Chella, I just want to know what games YOU like. Show us all the error of our ways ;) |
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Giants runs fine and looks pretty good on my voodoo3. I only have a few details down. Yeah there are memory leaks but every one gets those. |
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[122] "Carmack ISNT forcing you, hes stated itll run fine on Gf, Gf2, just like Quake 3 runs just fine on a Tnt2, hell on a Tnt1, just about any card with a T&L engine." I wish I could believe that. My GeForce2 MX can barely run Quake 3 at 800x600x32 (I can't do 16-bit anymore; I CAN notice a difference). Based on what I saw in the tech demo, my card will ignite in a blazing inferno before I even load the first map. Just for the record, I loved Doom, Doom 2, Quake, Serious Sam (to a lesser extent), and all those other games that the cynics on this thread hate. Doom was fun. I got my kicks from it and most every other game I listed. They were hard for me. I don't care that Doom didn't have the depth of a Final Fantasy game. It didn't mean to. A game can be fun without having a novel behind it. I'm waiting for one of you to say "Final Fantasy has no depth, a child could write better dialogue." Come on. I know you want to. I'm not quite pleased with the tightwads that don't seem to like anything. You can have your opinions, fine. But try to reverse your trend: what games do you actually LIKE? It may be a stretch for some, but think about it a bit and get back to me. It beats bitching about Doom being popular. Bitch about Daikatana all you like though. I felt like my character was partially blind through the first level of that piece of shit. |
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BarneyQue: Well, if they keep releasing cards at a six month clip, and each new card that comes out, is a bit more expensive than the previous one was when it was new, that drives up the ASP over time. Eventually, you will be in the same boat waiting out for prices to come down, when in fact, there is a chance they never will since the part will be dropped as a SKU and replaced by something newer before it ever hits that sweet spot in prices. Well, that will be when the companies go out of business then because they can't charge $1000 for a video card, never drop the price and expect to sell enough of them to survive. The market won't bear it ... Creation: I'm not quite pleased with the tightwads that don't seem to like anything. You can have your opinions, fine. But try to reverse your trend: what games do you actually LIKE? It may be a stretch for some, but think about it a bit and get back to me. It beats bitching about Doom being popular. People like to bitch. It's their nature. I think for some people. saying something positive is physically painful. |
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Jason, Don't be silly. Yes, it could be seen as shallow by today's standards, but Doom certainly wasn't at the time. Certainly not when you compare it to the flood of FMV games coming out at the same time. Ah, you see I actually made the same mistake of thinking "Well, the technology wasn't ready for better gameplay". But when you think about it, there were also games like Ultima Underworld, System Shock and Descent at about that time. Games among the very first adaptors of 3D ego graphics and still they were pushing for so much more, no matter how inferior the engine that powered the game might have been. DOOM had fantastic play mechanics, a great engine - AND it introduced us to deathmatch. This alone changed everything. However it was just an arcade shooter. How much better could the DOOM experience have been if they sticked to their original design doc and a cohesive theme? Having played the Aliens TC for DOOM, I'd have to say "A lot!". -enyak |
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And I'm sorry for that Aliens theme popping up all the time. :) Guess I like the movie, hmm... -enyak |
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Just on the bands analogy, it's probably a bit more hit and miss producing a chart-topping album than it is producing a decent game. Plus, bands are more prone to fashion than most developers. deadlock |
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Do people here remember about like. a week before Win95 was released.. do you remember how much memory cost back then? I do. I remember at the time before I knew about Pc tradeshows.. I walked into Eb. and I gotten my first pc. that I could say was all mine. And I bought 2 8 meg chips. Each cost me 360 bucks a pop. nearly a grand on 16 megs of ram. justso I could have 32 for win95. I remember how much The Voodoo1 first cost when it was released.. and it was mad expensive too.. I remember gettig the verite 1000 instead cause it was all in one and it was cheaper.. Then 6 months later first memory drop accurred in price..and a voodoo1 Was now 149. and I grabbed it. Later on v2s were 300 bucks each. and People bought 2 in droves. 600 bucks for the best 3d card on the planet. Guess what. thats normal. PEople have shown if you make it fast enough.. and good enough.. they will spend the money. Myself I am happy with my v5 (rip 3dfx.... sniff. ) Doom3xx is well enough aways .. That There is no other game that we know off at this moment graphically do for release this year.. that Gf3 will really make it sizzle that well. So why all the hubbub? People who bitch so much now are the friggin hypocrites.. who will go out and buy it when its released first in MArch. Thats right you too. Apache.. and everyone else who complains if you go and buy it first day.. Then WTF were you complaining for. So many people buy these cards So... they can SHOW Off. At this moment.... With 1.2+ cpus being cheaper then that card.. why the need? If the pricetag offends you that much.. WAIT. There is nothing saying you have to. Carmack or nvidia are not holding a gun to your head.. and saying BUT It or else. You all have only yourselves to blaim. If you can't show patience in making consumers decisions then its All ON YOU. Whining and crying about it and still buying = Alot of hot air. Now that We have seem a inkling and idea of the next doom game.. well WoW. Its damn impressive to say yeah thats going to be running many a game in the next 2-3 years. And I am drooling thinking what people like americanMcgee and RAven and others will do with this technology. Heck maybe hehe 3drealms will eatcrow and sign up a license. hehe |
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So will we get gay disco moving lights in all of our future games now like a certain webmaster predicts? |
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Heck maybe hehe 3drealms will eatcrow and sign up a license. hehe I hear that they are more interested in getting some good in-house tech for their next game, disillusioned with licensing tech. |
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Topic: GeForce 3, Doom III, oh my!
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