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GeForce 3, Doom III, oh my!
February 22nd 2001, 14:23 CET by Morn

This is all over the web, so it can't hurt if we mention it here as well. <a href="http://video.cnet.com:80/cnet_news/template/ramgen.cgi?cpcode=674&asset=http://cnetnews.download.akamai.com/674/t022101_2200hi.rm&start=2166&end=506966&xtn=.ram">This RealVideo movie</a> of Steve Jobs' MacWorld keynote contains, yes, (supposedly) real-time footage of id's Doom III (running on nVidia's new GeForce 3, also known as NV20). And boy oh boy, does it looks nice! You can find more info on <a href="http://www.shugashack.com">the Shack</a>, <a href="http://www.voodooextreme.com">VoodooExtreme</a>, <a href="http://www.bluesnews.com">Blue's news</a> and very likely every other gaming site on the planet. Also thanks to everyone who emailed/ICQ'd us about this.
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Home » Topic: GeForce 3, Doom III, oh my!

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#1 by "Buccaneer"
2001-02-22 14:24:40
buccaneer@planetcrap.com http://www.konsumsklave.de
Give it to me baby!
#2 by "brennan"
2001-02-22 14:25:52
scott.gs@home.com
Holy mother of God.  You know, just like 12 short hours ago, I agreed with Barneyque when he said in another thread that there was now way he was gonna pay $600 for a video card.  And then I saw this, and I'm like, eh, $600?  That's fine.  Would they like it in blood, or should I have the blood converted first to cash?

-brennan
#3 by "enyak"
2001-02-22 14:26:08
enyak@planetcrap.com
Initiate Snu-Snu!

Actually, we should try to remember that this isn't a finished game yet, but a mere tech demonstration and with AI and physics running, the final models might lose quite a few polys. Hmm, ok screw that AI part. :)

-enyak
#4 by "Morn"
2001-02-22 14:28:08
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
brennan, yes. I just bought a GeForce 2 GTS DDR (for roughly $350), and now I think it sucks. Thank you, you bastards.

- Morn
#5 by "enyak"
2001-02-22 14:29:16
enyak@planetcrap.com
Also DOOM 3 could be off by as much as 2 years, so as incredible as this looks right now, it's probably too early to get excited. :/ From a business side of view it surely make sense to wait until customers own a GF3 type card.
#6 by "Morn"
2001-02-22 14:35:45
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
#5 by Enyak:
Also DOOM 3 could be off by as much as 2 years

I'm quite surprised though by the amount of actual content (in terms of models, animations, maps etc) in that little tech demo (if it is one). The stuff you can see in the video linked to above is certainly more exciting than any of the stuff I saw when the first Quake 3 shots/tech demos were leaked/released. Just my 20 Pfennig :)

- Morn
#7 by "enyak"
2001-02-22 14:46:10
enyak@planetcrap.com
I am even more surprised by the hint of scripted animations. If they keep a strong storyline, carried by scripted sequences, throughout the game this could be the game to totally redeem id Software in my eyes.
I am also VERY pleased by the look of the textures and models seen thus far. They cut all the gothic crap and moved into "Aliens" direction.
#8 by "Morn"
2001-02-22 14:52:34
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Oh yeah, I'm so tired of that doom fan "666!!! IM EVIL!!! IM SO EVIL I PUT DOOM MIDI AND ANIMATID FLAME GIFF ON MY WEBSIGHT!!!" crap I see all over the web. It'd surprise me if id really completely moved away from the Gothic touch; after all, it's part of what made the first two Dooms so popular (IMO).

- Morn, silly & overcaffeinated
#9 by "Whisp"
2001-02-22 15:05:52
oh my.  That's pretty cool.

-Whisp
#10 by "brennan"
2001-02-22 15:16:17
scott.gs@home.com
I guess I've never been one to say that I don't care about graphics, so long as the gameplay is good.  In fact, I've always found that graphics are extremely important to my sense of immersion, and since I enjoy games more when I'm immersed, graphics have always been one of the things that have attracted me to games (well, first-person shooters, anyways).  By that standard, I think I'll take a week off from work when Doom3 comes out, because I won't be doing anything but playing and not sleeping.  This looks like it could be an absolutely terrifying game.

Morn:
I bought a GeForce 2 32mb for $190 shipped like 6-7 months ago on the Anandtech FS/FT forums (got a great deal).  But yeah, it looks like a piece of shit now.

-brennan
#11 by "GreenMarine"
2001-02-22 15:32:32
brandonr@3drealms.com
That video is damn impressive.  Stuff like this makes me so excited.  I never expected the next generational leap in technology to be quite this far.

I don't see any other technology developer catching up.  Carmack is a scientist.  He discovers new methods and tricks, employs them, and makes something incredible.  Others will catch up after Doom 3 is finished, when these new algorithms and techniques are revealed.  Carmack also has the unique advantage of being able to set the absolute direction on a project and explore new technology for as long as he sees fit...

I imagine the id offices will be getting a lot of phone calls today!
#12 by "FunkDrunk"
2001-02-22 15:54:52
jflavius@bellatlantic.com
I'm totally stunned.  I thought the Epic Unreal 2 images were impressive, but I was totally floored.  I had no intention of even looking at the GeForce3.  Especially when I heard it was going to come out at $600 dollars.  Now I'm trying to find someone I can fleece out of the money.  I thought I could stop grifting for hardware, but I see that I can't.....  Damned Nvidia for reinforcing my hardware jones.


Funk
#13 by "asspennies"
2001-02-22 16:10:21
asspennies@asspennies.org http://www.asspennies.org/
Let's not forget that by the time Doom 3 actually comes out, NVidia will be getting set to release the GeForce 4, and the GeForce 3 will be $150 or less.

Save your money.
#14 by "brennan"
2001-02-22 16:32:01
scott.gs@home.com
I wonder to what extent Carmack sat down with the Nvidia guys and said "okay, here's what I want.  Do it."

Anyone else watch Mr. Show?  "Damn, his science is too tight."  (Rips off gold chains)

-brennan
#15 by "Jafd"
2001-02-22 16:54:59
JnoAspamFpleaseD@whatthefuck.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com/
Why the hell are those dumbasses at C-Net offering that video as a stream? You just know about six hundred jillion thousands fanboys are gonna be clicking on it to watch it over and over and over. Why not make it something that can be downloaded?

Speaking of which... is there any convenient way to save a local copy of a video that is streamed?
#16 by "Whisp"
2001-02-22 17:50:38
Why the hell are those dumbasses at C-Net offering that video as a stream? You just know about six hundred jillion thousands fanboys are gonna be clicking on it to watch it over and over and over.

That's exactly the point - more ad revenue.  They don't want someone snatching it and posting it themselves.  They did the legwork to get it, and they want the recognition and increased traffic it can bring.

-Whisp
#17 by "Morn"
2001-02-22 17:53:12
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
I think I saw a link to a DivX'd version on the Shack (in the user comments).

- Morn
#18 by "dukope"
2001-02-22 17:55:11
you can download the high-quality asf from www.nextdoom.com and watch it again and again (and again).
#19 by "enyak"
2001-02-22 18:02:34
enyak@planetcrap.com
Actually the "High Quality" DiVX Version looks worse than the 220kbit Real Stream. :(
#20 by "XCrodo"
2001-02-22 18:32:45
The levels in the shots reminds me of the Alien movies. IMO, this is exactly the kind of atmosphere id should try to recreate. Two years until it's finished? Fine, polish that sucker, we want the best you can give us. As for the GeForce 3, are they taken pre-order yet?

XCrodo
#21 by "Jafd"
2001-02-22 18:46:18
JnoAspamFpleaseD@whatthefuck.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com/
#16: Isn't there a more efficient way of achieving the same result? I mean, <i>really?</i>
#22 by "deadlock"
2001-02-22 19:13:14
deadlock@eircom.net
I was looking at the old screens from Quake 3 that were linked to in that article, does anyone know how many of those levels made it into the final release ? I know the tongue made it, albeit in a modified form - I remember previews that described a moving tongue, incidentally.

Also, have id said anything about the multiplayer content of Doom 3, if any ? Anybody know where the toilets are ?

let's have a good old-fashioned my thingy is better than your thingy argument, we ain't had one in ages. my thing rocks.

deadlock
#23 by "deadlock"
2001-02-22 19:14:24
deadlock@eircom.net
incidentally morn, how about a link that let's you go from viewing the most recent posts in a topic to viewing all of them, la earlier PC ?

deadlock
#24 by "FunkDrunk"
2001-02-22 19:51:38
jflavius@bellatlantic.com
#22 Deadlock

<quote> let's have a good old-fashioned my thingy is better than your thingy argument, we ain't had one in ages. my thing rocks. </quote>

Ok, I'll join in.  

My thingy is faster than your thingy.

Funk
#25 by "enyak"
2001-02-22 19:52:42
enyak@planetcrap.com
I just thought the same thing (View All Posts Button).
#26 by "Demonicuss"
2001-02-22 20:04:08
Sweet Baby Jebus.

And here I sit with my crappy HP Pavilion with no AGP slot and a shitty Intel video chip that can only run Jedi Knight accelerated.  My Lord has forsaken me.

Uhh, anybody know if there's gonna be a PCI variant?  Hey, a guy can dream, can he?
#27 by "Kayin"
2001-02-22 20:27:38
kayin@infinet.com
...

damn. THAT is SEXY defined.

if d3 plays half as good as it looks... i would sell my soul to big brother for a copy.

(/me thanks the gods he didn't cash in on a now extinct geforce 2 yet)

DEADLOCK: the spiral pillar sitting in the middle of one of the rooms in the IHV test made it into q3dm14 (i think...)
#28 by "Phayyde"
2001-02-22 21:06:04
phayyde@chaosnow.com http://chaosnow.com/
Bigwood.
#29 by "Theseus"
2001-02-22 21:23:59
theseus@cpgaming.com http://www.cpgaming.com
Bloody Hell. I can't wait untill Raven or ritual or somone turns this tech into a game.
#30 by "Narcopolo"
2001-02-22 21:31:50
I always thought the gothic stuff was the hallmark of the Quake series, courtesy of Tim Willits, who didn't work on Doom 1 & 2, if I recall correctly.  The base levels in Q3A seemed like a throwback, a nod to Doom, which they hadn't decided on making again yet.

#26-
There's a PCI version of the GeForce2MX, which I put on my gf's computer and it's pretty sweet.  It's also quite cheap.  Innovision made it, and I believe Creative also has a PCI version.  I think it'll last until Doom3, certainly.

This Doom video really does look great, I just hope that Graeme Devine does more than just the sound, and they let him use his imagination in putting it all together.

Those lights flickering gave me an idea for a scary moment in the game.  How cool would it be to have a fire fight in strobe lighting?  If you've never experienced it, someone suddenly putting there face in yours in strobe conditions is really startling.  Just the way that strobe would put the monster models into relief, and then the next time you see them a split second later, they'd be on top of you, could be really effective.  Anyone who doesn't have a seizure might soil themselves.
#31 by "Narcopolo"
2001-02-22 21:39:53
I meant to say the Gothic architecture was Willits trademark.  The heavy metal style stuff is definitely going to make a return in Doom3.  I thought it was atmospheric.
#32 by "Whisp"
2001-02-22 21:42:50
Here's an excerpt from an NVIDIA press release on Blue's:

The first high-resolution antialiasing (HRAA) GPU, featuring NVIDIA's patented Quincunx AA mode, for high-resolution, high-quality, high-performance multisampling capabilities.

How much do you want to bet that "NVIDIA's patented Quincunx AA mode" is actually 3dfx's patented AA?  Oh well, now we've got the best of both.  I just hope this $600 price tag isn't an indication that they feel they don't need to compete any longer.

-Whisp
#33 by "None-1a"
2001-02-22 21:56:52
none1a@home.com
I just hope this $600 price tag isn't an indication that they feel they don't need to compete any longer.


A few things to note about that price, Mac hardware is generaly cost $50 more then the same hardware for a PC. And second it's being added by Apple as a per order item, and that means apple will be chargeing speical prices for it. This also means apple will be the only company producing the mac versions (unlike the PC where things will work much like they have in the past).

I can't imagne Nvidia charging a lot for the chips with ATI still putting up compotision for the base and mid level cards.
#34 by "asspennies"
2001-02-22 21:58:17
asspennies@asspennies.org http://www.asspennies.org/
I don't know what the mac users are going to use a GeForce3 for - they just got StarCraft.
#35 by "None-1a"
2001-02-22 22:06:33
none1a@home.com
Hum should have checked the mac store. The GeForce 3 cost an extra $350 over the standered GeForce 2 MX that's included with the powermacs. To buy the card on it's own is $599, however a 32MB Radeon cost a whopping $249 (for comparisons NECX sells the mac Radeon for $196 and the PC version of the same card for $154).

Assuming that the GeForce is about the same you can expect around a $100 price difference in for the PC versions (assuming Apple didn't jack the price up more then they did for the Radeon).
#36 by "Anonymous"
2001-02-22 22:10:41
epic/bungie/volition/monolith are all so 0wned all though im sure their bitch apache will show up any time to brag about how impressive unreal warfare is hahahhahaha everyone may as well just give up and license doom3
#37 by "Evi|ivE"
2001-02-22 22:22:09
Ha, #36 has the first real 'fan-boy' post and wouldn't you know it... Anonymous.  LOL

I guess I'll have to fire up the 56k modem and download the video.  I need to see what all the fuss is over.  /me rubs the sleep out of his eyes and starts looking for a link.
#38 by "Apache"
2001-02-22 22:26:41
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
woot!

seriously though, I was really impressed w/ the DOOM III stuff, but a lot of the neato effects are due to the GeForce III I think. I doubt all that neat lighting stuff would work if you were without NVIDIA's $600 hunk of hardware. For that much cash you can buy an Xbox (that has a NV25) and like 5 games. Impressive - yes. Cost effective? Im not sure. :)

I'd love to see some Unreal Warfare stuff (or even Halo and LT) shown off on a GeForce III as well.
#39 by "Theseus"
2001-02-22 22:28:27
theseus@cpgaming.com http://www.cpgaming.com
#36, why exactly?  Back it up.
#40 by "Evi|ivE"
2001-02-22 22:32:22
It will be awhile until I will want to spend $600 on a video card...  I can damn near buy a decent PC for that much money.  And it will take more than 1 game (Doom 3) to justify that kind of price.
#41 by "Evi|ivE"
2001-02-22 22:35:22
Oh and Theseus, I think he did all the explaining he needed to.  He clearly stated that epic/bungie/volition/monolith have all been '0wned'.  

Now if that isn't scientific enough for you, I don't know what is.  ;)
#42 by "thee treblekick"
2001-02-22 22:40:04
treblekicker@sympatico.ca www.yellow5.com/pokey
#26, demonicus...
apparently, macs don't have agp ports [i read this earlier, but i don't have a mac myself, so take it with a grain of salt], making a pci version a very distinct possibility.  tho from my understanding agp will give you better performance most of the time [and i'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong.

that video looked amaaaazing tho, i was really blown away.  if anything it almost looks TOO intense :]

regards/john
#43 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2001-02-22 22:54:06
Darkseid@captured.com www.captured.com
Ill take your bet whisp and collect the money once you realise that the Gf3 hardware tapped out a while back, well before Nvidia got a hold of the 3dfx patents. Might see their tricks pop up in the next hardware release, but not til then.

Try streambox for snagging streamed media, no link, soz.

Ironic the mac gets it first, well they paid a load to be the first OEM, but being able to order the card doesnt mean youll get it. a $350 premium over the now standard Geforce 2 MX cards. Remember also, having it orderable doesnt mean getable, recall the furore 15 months ago about the G4 450s and 500s ... they cancelled ALL the pre orders for the 500, even though it was an announced product they _didnt have any_ and have ONLY JUST gotten a supply of them, the 450s were rarer than hens teeth. No apology, no explanation, just cancelled them .. yayy Apple.  Theyre also the first OEM, which means no Compaqs Dells HPs etc YET, but, that doesnt mean they wont be on the streets available for the PC. Hell rumours abound that they ARE on sale in akiba japan, but the release date should be March 10th.

Oh yeah, obligatory totally fucking nifty software app, this time a movie player (Just make sure you have AMERICAN ENGLISH as one of your locale profiles, otherwise allthe options will be in korean)

http://sasami2k.kiwidream.com/sasami2k/sasami2k_640b.exe

the tricks this thing pull are nifty squifty !

Doom3 looks nice, lets hope they remember to put a game in there WITH the eyecandy. Oh and as I recall Carmack stated that the Geforces will run Doom3 aok, but lower than that will struggle ....

Ds
#44 by "dukope"
2001-02-22 23:02:00
#38, Apache:

I'd love to see some Unreal Warfare stuff (or even Halo and LT) shown off on a GeForce III as well.


you know, it's not as if the gf3 makes engines look magically awesome. "showing off" lithtech on a gf3 will get you higher resolutions and anti-aliasing. it won't add any of the revolutionary per-pixel pipeline stuff that carmack is doing in doom3.

as outlined in one of carmack's plans/speaches/papers/posts, per-pixel pipelines are the future, and it's not an nvidia-exclusive concept. through extensions, every other opengl card will support them when doom3 comes out.
#45 by "Theseus"
2001-02-22 23:36:58
theseus@cpgaming.com http://www.cpgaming.com
Oh and Theseus, I think he did all the explaining he needed to. He clearly stated that epic/bungie/volition/monolith have all been '0wned'.

Now if that isn't scientific enough for you, I don't know what is. ;)


Har ;)
#46 by "enyak"
2001-02-22 23:51:24
enyak@planetcrap.com
Apache, I think the lighting model is done in software. Or at least not all hardware. Anyway, you don't just get it "for free". I might be completely wrong though (but take it as an educated guess :)

Oh, and I REALLY hope that the GF3 implementation of Anti-Aliasing will run with reasonable framerates. AA is so pretty!

-enyak
#47 by "Desiato"
2001-02-23 00:03:35
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
I saw the video...(thanks to the mirrored link posted here)...and yes, I'm impressed with what is represented there....

However.

I'm remembering the first shots of Quake/Q2/Q3A and what that ultimately evolved into. I'm just saying that the final product will not necessarily be what was in that demo. I am sure I'm not the only one that made the same mistake when the early shots of curved surfaces in Q3A surfaced on the web. I really thought that id would go all out and put them wherever they could, basically redefining level design. What did we end up with? Nice accents that you could put places, but nothing too tricky since the collision detection was a bitch to do...so - you had a hybrid between the boxy Quake/Quake2 look with some devil horns and organic tongues....

Also - recall that the initial level of detail in the tournament level that featured the big gaping mouth? I looked that pic up, and frankly what made it into the game is a highly optimized version of what sucked us into that screenshot in the first place.

This is where someone should say "Well, you have to balance speed with detail..." Okay - great, just don't show me something that isn't realistic to do when you release the minimum system specs on the box...(a whole other topic we've beat to death before..)

Will the new engine look great?

Yes.

Will it look exactly like the demo?

No.

That's really what I'm trying to say -- just don't get too sucked in, we've seen the difference between what has been promised and what the resultant compromise ends up being, so just keep some perspective while you're mopping up the drool off the keyboard.


Desiato
#48 by "Luguber"
2001-02-23 00:06:31
Narcopolo:
...the Gothic architecture was Willits' trademark...


Not sure about this; Willits was lead level designer on Quake2, which was nearly completely free of anything "gothic" (apart from the palace levels, which, incidentally, were designed by Paul Jaquays)...
#49 by "Emjoi"
2001-02-23 00:11:48
greg@seis.com.au
Very proud of you guys for not making this a Mac vs PC btich fest.....

Not meaning to be an Apple flame, but the Mac's lower volume means that prices for Vid cards and the like are a bit higher.  If an Official Apple Video card costs $600, there'll me much cheaper PC versions ($400?)
#50 by "Bracket"
2001-02-23 00:33:59
thebracket@yahoo.com http:/www.tsghelp.com/
Impressive stuff. I wonder how much of this uses the "pixel shader" capability of the GeForce 3, and how much is a really clever lightmap system? If its the former, then I wonder how good it looks on a Radeon or similar T&L card that doesn't have all of the proprietary Nvidia OpenGL extensions! (Unless iD switched to DirectX 8 without telling anyone, in which case you can use per-pixel and per-vertex shaders with Nvidia's scripting language on any card that cares to implement them)

T&L is great, what would really make the GeForce 3 for me would be hardware accelerated per-pixel lighting, rather than vertex lighting. That would finally make T&L useable for games that rely on massively dynamic lightmaps (as opposed to just the "T" - transformation), and would make the Unreal Warfare terrain system look a LOT better, too. [That's assuming that the article I read saying that it uses T&L with vertex-lighting is true]
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