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RAMbus on a RAMpage II: The Sequel
February 19th 2001, 20:50 CET by Morn

User submission time! Whisp writes: <i>"Things are looking grim for Rambus. <a href=" http://www.electronicnews.com/news/6333-47NewsDetail.asp">This story</a> shows once again that when you are engaging in illegal and ethically questionable activities, you shouldn't put your plans in writing and distribute around the office in a memo titled 'How to <a href="/stories/205/">screw</a> the competition in 3 easy steps'."</i>

Rambus' <a href="http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/010216/ca_rambus.html">response</a>: <i>"We look forward to an expeditious recognition of Rambus' innovations in court."</i> -- sounds like this is going to be fun.
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#1 by "Morn"
2001-02-19 20:52:14
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Does this make Rambus more evil than GSI? :>

- Morn
#2 by "warmonger"
2001-02-19 21:02:45
Warmonger@BlackAngel-Software.com www.blackangel-software.com
I don't have much to really add here, but I'll post just so that I get back in the habit. With PC5, I think I'll have to start posting again. Anyway, Rambus sucks! DDR is better and cheaper. If only Intel had gone with DDR, they would have been much better off.
#3 by "FunkDrunk"
2001-02-19 21:28:15
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
Hey, doesn't the PS2 use Rambus?

Funk
#4 by "Fragaday"
2001-02-19 21:35:34
fragaday@bigfoot.com http://www.goingup.cfgn.net
Doesn't every company want to screw the competition? I bet a lot of  companies would pull dirty stunts if they could get away with it.

By the way, I think this is possibly a bad story to start PC5 on, the original only got 36 comments, because theres not much to talk about... however, I am confident that people will soon go off topic and we shall see hundreds of posts.
#5 by "Pianist"
2001-02-19 21:43:52
alex@evilemail.com
FIFTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#6 by "sentinel"
2001-02-19 21:56:00
jeroen@metallica.com
Actually, I think all the other members of JEDEC are a bunch of morons because they let this happen. They should have patented all their ideas as JEDEC and then give all the members free licenses or something like that, maybe even donate the patent to the public domain. But if you form a commitee consisting of high-profile companies in a market that is set to be booming in a couple of years (as was the case in 1992 and believe me they knew it, they weren't developing new standards for nothing) you are a total idiot if you expect people to act "decently" (as that Hyundai guy states it.)

Rambus just uses the lame patent-system to their advantage, that's a smart move on their part, while the whole JEDEC and USPTO are stupid moves on the part of the other memory manufacturers and the US government respectively.
#7 by "sentinel"
2001-02-19 22:00:59
jeroen@metallica.com
#2: Rambus is actually a superior technology in the long run and Intel simply recognized this when they went for it. What they probably underestimated was the influence of companies like AMD and VIA around the time they started promoting Rambus and that's what set them back. Turns out to be a good thing as RDRAM is not really performing like it should at this point (mainly due to the small CPU caches in the current generation of CPUs, which makes latency a bigger issue than bandwidth.) So it actually turned out alright: Intel will develop an SDRAM and probably even DDR SDRAM chipset for their P4 and in a couple or years everyone will switch to Rambus or similar technology.

Personal I hope it's the "similar" variant as I too think those Rambus folks are a bunch of slimeballs (which may not have been clear from these two posts :))
#8 by "Desiato"
2001-02-19 22:21:45
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Can anyone say "betamax" ?

Hehehe.

Just because its technically superior doesn't mean it will gain a foothold. However contrary that is to our way of thinking, it still remains a shocking truth that has to be re-learned from time to time.

Desiato
#9 by "sentinel"
2001-02-19 22:47:21
jeroen@metallica.com
Yeah but RDRAM is backed by Intel (who continue to promote it as their "high-end solution") and according to http://careers.yahoo.com/ it's likely AMD will come up with an RDRAM-based chipset too (look for "RAMBUS" and see what AMD is looking for in new senior engineers :))
#10 by "Narcopolo"
2001-02-19 22:57:42
Just because Rambus was deceptive and possibly fraudulent, doesn't mean that it'll be enough to invalidate their patents.  The number of memory makers that have caved and settled with Rambus is scary.  The ones still fighting, like Hyundai, Micron and Infineon, are probably doing it out of principle, and the hope that the courts will recognize that preserving the process of creating open standards is more important to the greater good than preserving a particular company's patents.

Memory's especially cheap now, might be a good time to scoop some up, since this might not go the way of the righteous.  Try and buy from Hyundai, Micron or Infineon if you possibly can.
#11 by "Hambone"
2001-02-19 23:16:26
cosmando@homestead.com
They should have closed the patent office 100 years ago like they were contemplating.
#12 by "Creation"
2001-02-19 23:26:54
thanatos_dm@evilemail.com http://arena.gameseek.com
After reading the article, I have to say that this whole predicament sucks.

If Rambus wins: Rambus is the only provider of any kind of RAM, because they own all the patents.  BAD.

If Rambus loses: Rambus folds almost immediately (article says that 80% of Rambus's income is through royalties), Intel's RDRAM chipsets (and the P4) immediately become moot.

Sure, I think RDRAM is overrated.  I believe that DDR SDRAM is more cost-effective.  But unless Intel or VIA turns around and churns out a DDR chipset really soon, the P4's screwed.

And I hope VIA doesn't do a DDR chipset.  I've had almost nothing but troubles with my VIA board ever since I installed Windows 2000.
#13 by "Quicken"
2001-02-20 00:16:27
geoffrey@access.com.au http://www.warmage.com/
If Rambus wins everyone will quickly jump ship and start using a similar design to get past the patent unless Rambus is reasonable about how much they charge to use the design
#14 by "NewImprovedKayin"
2001-02-20 00:28:19
kayin@infinet.com
Translation: "BRING IT ON."

I wonder... does the sun shine in the morning for the PR people at Rambus? they seem to love this shit. ^_^

---------------------
"get out of my store!"
#15 by "Apache"
2001-02-20 02:34:38
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
let me to be the first person to bitch about a topic on PC5! :)

Topics like this are why I don't visit slashdot. Gimmie game stuff, damnit!
#16 by "Desiato"
2001-02-20 03:07:54
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
How about an article on how gamers are just a bunch of whining fucks?

Gimmie gimmie gimmie......I think if any of us put ourselves in the shoes of even a sucessful developer, we might refrain from some of the glib criticism we toss forth on a daily basis.

Not that I'm targeting anyone in particular....just a general topic...


Desiato
#17 by "Steve Bauman"
2001-02-20 03:24:58
steve@manic-pop-thrills.com http://www.manic-pop-thrills.com
Gimmie gimmie gimmie......I think if any of us put ourselves in the shoes of even a sucessful developer, we might refrain from some of the glib criticism we toss forth on a daily basis.

Yeah, how could people know what it's like?! Certainly not anyone running any sort of significantly trafficed or popular editorial site, because we know they do not receive glib criticism on a daily basis...
#18 by "Apache"
2001-02-20 03:50:14
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
Gimmie gimmie gimmie......I think if any of us put ourselves in the shoes of even a sucessful developer, we might refrain from some of the glib criticism we toss forth on a daily basis.

Yeah, how could people know what it's like?! Certainly not anyone running any sort of significantly trafficed or popular editorial site, because we know they do not receive glib criticism on a daily basis...


Or a topic about how every 14 year old forum trollr could run a website better than you can. :)

Seriously though, there's a lot of interesting stuff out like Jedi Knight II news, Wieder's last .plan, id finally releasing a bonus pack, PC Zone UK posting a "review" of Black & White about 2 months before the game is even close to gold, Future laying off a zillion people, the official Dreamcast magazine getting the axe and the list goes on. :)
#19 by "Whisp"
2001-02-20 04:17:51
I haven't heard much about most of these things.  Enlighten us, oh Apache, and submit something!

-Whisp
#20 by "Apache"
2001-02-20 04:56:24
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
I haven't heard much about most of these things. Enlighten us, oh Apache, and submit something!


Okay, stop twisting my arm. ;)

The most interesting bit I think is the Jedi Knight II news which broke today when Activision released its latest release date schedule and had Jedi Knight II first quarter 2002 listed. This would lead you to believe that LucasArts finally decided to license the Jedi Knight name to Activision, who would in turn assign the game's development to one of its many talented development houses (or bring a new one in to make it). This makes sense, as several of Lucass latest games are being contracted out now -- Verant for Star Wars Online and BioWare for the Star Wars RPG - which I think is a very good thing, as Lucass last few Star Wars games have horrible.

No one really knows or can talk about who is making it, which engine it will use, or what exactly it will be about, but Jedi was one of my top five games of all time and Im really looking forward to playing it (regardless of who makes it).
#21 by "Anonymous"
2001-02-20 05:08:35
Seriously though, there's a lot of interesting stuff out like Jedi Knight II news, Wieder's last .plan, id finally releasing a bonus pack, PC Zone UK posting a "review" of Black & White about 2 months before the game is even close to gold, Future laying off a zillion people, the official Dreamcast magazine getting the axe and the list goes on.


You do see that big send stuff button don't you. Watch it or morn just might be forced to make the submition page a pop up.
#22 by "Apache"
2001-02-20 05:12:22
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
damnit, the anons are posting already. ;)
#23 by "NewImprovedKayin"
2001-02-20 06:17:14
kayin@infinet.com
****ID'S**** mission pack?

*ahem*
excuse me?
try "epic reamed us in the public's eye with all those free expansion paks, so we'll just lure the top q3 map designers to make us a map pak for free, pay them with attention and be on our merry way."

i never understood the whole UT - Q3 deal until i picked up a copy of UT a few weeks back. that game just unzips and has its way with Q3 all over the place. i can't remember the last time i've sweat through an entire game before (especially with bots) but a game of CTF, Domination or Assault manages to stroke my noodle just like the QW days of lore. Q3 just seems flat now.

damnit, now i gotta go play some before i finish this scholarship essay... ^_^
#24 by "Apache"
2001-02-20 06:21:44
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
yeah, id released a little map pack for team arena the other day :)
#25 by "Quicken"
2001-02-20 06:24:20
geoffrey@access.com.au http://www.warmage.com/
Yeah. id's mission pack is sure to bring out some mud slinging. So who here can form it into an article and let the flaming begin? I couldn't be bothered ;)
#26 by "Apache"
2001-02-20 06:28:33
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
Already posted one ages ago :)

http://apache.planetcrap.com/story.php?id=636
#27 by "NewImprovedKayin"
2001-02-20 06:33:59
kayin@infinet.com
kayin: "did you download that new TA map pak?"
zyk: "yeah yeah just installed it. "
kayin: "lose it's virginity?"
zyk: "not yet. make it so."

*game spawns*
LOADING

kayin: "man, this is gonna be sweet. new mappage."

*game begins*

zyk: "hey.... waitthehell..."
kayin: "japanese castles? wtf?"
zyk: "i'm getting this eerie feeling...
kayin: "like you've been here before?"
zyk: "it's almost like a just fucked someone, and then realized she looked like your girlfriend."
#28 by "Quicken"
2001-02-20 06:51:42
geoffrey@access.com.au http://www.warmage.com/
That's old Apache.  We want to dig up some fresh mud slinging for the free id stuff now :)
#29 by "szcx"
2001-02-20 07:12:56
nedocze@hotmail.com http://www.whatwouldyodado.com/
Attack id when they charge for an addon, attack them when they give stuff away.  God bless those fanboys.
#30 by "Topaz"
2001-02-20 07:19:46
I like id's products but the latest map pak for team arena is kinda lame. It's made up of old maps and they've already released a 5mb patch for the map pak. A lot of people wished id would get behind a map pak of some kind so it would have a better chance of becoming standard. The only problem is they kinda screwed it up by using old maps and one a map with bugs. bleh. I don't see these maps on many of the servers so I don't think the plan worked out to well.
#31 by "warmonger"
2001-02-20 07:29:47
Warmonger@BlackAngel-Software.com www.blackangel-software.com
I think we need to take a poll. UT or Q3? I know that VE had a poll over there a few days ago, but I'd like to know what people here think. And make this strictly a poll between UT and Q3, they way that they shipped, not with any mods. I for one would cast my vote for UT, because of its better teamplay out-of-the-box. Here's hoping this won't turn into a flame war between Id fanboys and Epic fanboys.
#32 by "Apache"
2001-02-20 07:38:54
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
polls are always fun!

At the last VE poll Counter-Strike won slightly (with a 32% share), but UT pretty much destroyed Q3 for second place honors. Going by the server numbers you'd think CS would have totally dominated, but it just won by a few hundred votes (6%). Then you had UT at 26%, Quake III with 16%, Tribes with 12%, Half-Life/TFC with 9% (another game you'd expect more people to vote for if you went by server stats) and "other" coming in at 5%. (6100+ people voting)
#33 by "szcx"
2001-02-20 07:57:36
nedocze@hotmail.com http://www.whatwouldyodado.com/
Gah!

Please Morn, whatever you do, don't bring those wretched online polls to Planetcrap.  They're like fanboy catnip.
#34 by "Apache"
2001-02-20 08:02:39
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
polls are fun!!!! :-)

Althought when you update them every two days like we do, it's hard to come up with decent questions, but the readers love 'em.
#35 by "warmonger"
2001-02-20 08:05:55
Warmonger@BlackAngel-Software.com www.blackangel-software.com
Bleh, who's talking about a poll? I mean a completely informal one, where people just post what game they like more. I'd agree, szcx, that polls tend to attract fanboys, so that's why I was suggesting an informal one. And this topic could use a little controversy, couldn't it? ;)
#36 by "Apache"
2001-02-20 08:09:01
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
the big bloody "Best FPS battle" topic. it has serious potential. :)

although you'd get the same fanboys who would now be posting instead of just voting.
#37 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2001-02-20 09:51:38
Darkseid@captured.com www.captured.com
Black and White, ... 'end of March is the very latest we'll have the game to you, we're aiming for much sooner'

doesnt sound like the games 2 months away.  1 month maybe.

I for one _know_ its going to be a helluva game. Why?  Two words, Peter Molyneux.

NEVER been let down by a game he's had a hand in yet, and thats going all the way back to Populous on my Amiga.   The Uk should be pushing to have him Knighted and made _sir_ Peter Molyneux ... and while we're at it, a knighthood for David Braben and Geoff Crammond ... oh and one for Jeff Minter and maybe one for Andrew Braybook.


showing my age am I yes!

Ds

Ps, Hulka, youre still a whiny liberal!

pps *smacks Cleghorn with a Frankie Howerd Greater Lurckious of Doom +4*
#38 by "Hambone"
2001-02-20 10:32:02
cosmando@homestead.com
UT is the shit. Q3 has graphics like no one's business and Carmack is my hero, but UT is just more fun.
Man I have been waiting for Black and White for a long time.
#39 by "Mark Asher"
2001-02-20 10:45:56
marka@cdmnet.com www.quartertothree.com
"The most interesting bit I think is the Jedi Knight II news which broke today when Activision released its latest release date schedule and had Jedi Knight II first quarter 2002 listed. This would lead you to believe that LucasArts finally decided to license the Jedi Knight name to Activision, who would in turn assign the game's development to one of its many talented development houses (or bring a new one in to make it)."

Weird thing about this is that several months ago I was tipped off that Activision had asked for video footage from the Star Wars movies. That was all I had, though. I couldn't get anything beyond that.

So, for what it's worth, pile that tidbit onto the Jedi 2 story. There may be some truth to that European release list.
#40 by "Desiato"
2001-02-20 10:54:28
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
I tried an experiment last evening.

I wanted to rekindle the fun that I usually had when I started up a new game, whether that had been doom2, quake1, etc...

I was playing on a Q3A server when it hit me.........screw the weapons.......I fired wildy into the ground, expended my last bullet (I could've switched weapons but I felt like wasting the bullets since I had so few left) and then I had the simplest weapon at my disposal.....

THE GAUNTLET......

I can hear you laughing now... "What? You're kidding, you'll get your ass kicked...."

Sure, I got fragged....but the one thing that was satisfying as hell was fragging the crap out of the top-ranked player when they had the quad. No kidding. 3 hits and you're OUT was my battle cry....some players took the cue and instantly switched to the Gauntlet, running around as one participant observed "It's like the freaking day of the dead!!"....

It was, however improbable, FUN......I was laughing my ass off -- each **HUMILIATION** that got announced made me want more...I kept this up until the game was over.....the resulting score? I was a close SECOND......not bad for some gauntlet action, eh?

Perhaps this can be a lesson......mega weapons sometimes don't mean crap when you disassociate yourself from the real reason you play these games......to kick someone's ass.

Arguably, some are already fulfilled by the ubiquitous rocket launcher.....but I grew tired of the thing....especially in Q3A.....the fire-engine red paintjob, the equally improbable barrel....I had to use something else that wasn't such a FPS cliche...

FEAR THE GAUNTLET.......


Desiato
#41 by "Woo-Fu"
2001-02-20 18:05:51
random1@speakeasy.org random1-2.dsl.speakeasy.net
Your gauntlet experience only points out how unbalanced it is as an infinite ammo weapon.

I vote for UT over q3a.  I don't have either installed now though, too much time playing and serving various halflife mods.  Tons more content, tons more gameplay, much more variety ( and balance, imho ) in weapons (UT, that is, vs. q3a).  q3a nerfed the gl and the rl, consequently making the rg even more the only weapon to own. Granted, the gl didn't have much place in super mario q3a gameplay anyways.  Maybe I'm just a disgruntled rocketarena2 player.

I think Black & White is going to disappoint almost as many people as Daikatana did, even though Molyneux hasn't promised to make anybody his bitch.
#42 by "AshRain"
2001-02-20 22:30:43
ikhier@wish.nl http://wtf.couchcrew.com
Wheeeeeeee, a follow up on a story I started!!!

My life is so complete now. :)

And now for some more random noise.

I played the Oni demo today and got so bored with it that I didn't even start the second level.
I mean, this gameplay has been around since Double Dragon. Speaking of which I fired up the old NES and played some good old DDII. 10 times more fun as Oni if you ask me.

Pity the gamers who aren't old enough to know it.

End random noise. I was just venting my being displeased with Oni. Please continue with the UTvsQ3 debat.

Errrr, did I say debate? I ment POINTLESS RANTING!
#43 by "Needle"
2001-02-20 23:33:44
[#1] Morn,

Does this make Rambus more evil than GSI?


Let's be serious for a moment.. NOTHING is more evil than GSI ;)

[#29] sczx,

Attack id when they charge for an addon, attack them when they give stuff away.


They didn't exactly give anything away though.  All those "new" maps are just old community-made maps that had already been given away, some of them over a year ago.  I'm not one to bitch about things you get for free, but id's idea of a "map pack" is just lame.
#44 by "charred"
2001-03-22 08:04:57
jgollner@sympatico.ca
testing test
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