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Fly2k update
May 10th 2000, 18:35 CEST by andy

Nothing much else going on at the moment, so I'll update you on the Fly2k situation...



The other day we explained that people outside the States who had bought a dodgy copy of Fly2k for the Mac could get it exchanged by calling Gathering of Developers. Trouble with that is, the phone call would probably cost around half the price of the game.

Terminal Reality's Richard Harvey let us know that GoD does in fact have a support e-mail address. Hurrah, I cheered in mock jubilation, and fired off a cry for help to see what sort of response I'd get. Here you go...

It seems the first batch of CD's were produced with flaws. We will exchange it for a working copy, please enclose your original store receipt and a copy of this customer support transcript.

Thank you and sorry for the inconvience.

So there you have it - either you lay down a big wad of bucks for an international call, or you lay down a different but equally big wad of bucks for international postage charges. And how does someone enclose a copy of the 'customer support transcript' if they haven't got a printer?

The lesson here is one that most of us learned a long time ago - don't buy a game until it's been out for a few weeks! It's always the early adopters that get caught out like this. The fact that it's happened with a GoD game only goes to show that these problems aren't limited to the 'bad' companies that we all love to hate. Of course, one could have expected GoD to handle things a little better...

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Home » Topic: Fly2k update

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#1 by "David Long"
2000-05-10 18:52:15
ogv@gamestats.com http://ogv.gamestats.com
Just lucky I guess...<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "Phil Scott"
2000-05-10 19:26:17
phil@enkafan.com http://www.enkafan.com
<quote>Terminal Reality's Richard Harvey let us know that GoD does in fact have a support e-mail address.</quote>

I don't care how immature it seems, but that will get a chuckle out of me for a while.  Someone should start a company called My Giant Penis or something, just for shits and giggles in press releases.

How much would it cost to send this sucker via international postage?  What the hell are they talking about a customer support transcript?  If someone sends in a receipt with fly2k for the mac, I'm pretty sure they want a working copy of the game.

When sony replaced GT2, they wanted you to have your receipt, the exact problems you had, the serial number of your playstation, some number of you buggy GT2, and only then could you get a copy.  Later they made you send in your buggy copy of the game because people were tricking their way into free copies.  
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#3 by "Valeyard"
2000-05-10 19:54:14
valeyard@ck3.net http://www.ck3.net
Here's my take.  You're right, you're absolutely right.  This hasn't been handled very well, and the people who purchased the game DESERVE to have a working copy without shelling out any additional cash.  I'd even go so far as to say they deserve some small rebate for the troubles.

The other side of the coin is this:

These companies shouldn't be selling their games outside the U.S., if they can't properly support them outside the U.S.  Unfortunately, if that were to happen, the Euro-customers would be begging for the games.  "I don't care about the support, I'll give you twice the US rate for the game...just send me a copy!"

In a global economy, you're simply going to pay more.  If I want to buy a Vauxhall, I'm going to end up paying more for the car, and the shipping...and I'll also be paying more for support and maintenance.  Because there isn't a Vauxhall dealer or repair facility in the US (though I believe they are owned by GM).

Likewise, if people in Europe are going to buy games developed an published in America...you have to do it EXPECTING issues like these to arise.  Otherwise you're simply not being realistic.

It SHOULD be up to the European retailers to handle this problem.  They get new, working copies of the game in, you take your bad copy to them and replace it, they send the bad copies back to GoD.  That's the cheapest and easiest route for everyone...and that's the way it works in the U.S.

We've been through that discussion before.  That's the way it works over here, but evidently, European retailers won't allow that.  (Something that I think a consumer group should start championing).

So, Yes...they deserve the game they paid for at no additional cost.  They also took a risk, both in buying it so early and in buying a "foreign" product.

I'm not saying their at fault, clearly this is a mistake on GoD's part....but eventually the consumer has to realize the possible problems that can arise from a situation like this.

-Valeyard
#4 by "Valeyard"
2000-05-10 20:08:18
valeyard@ck3.net http://www.ck3.net
Change one "an" to "and" and one "their" to "they're" and you'll have the proofread post I SHOULD have posted. :)

-Valeyard
#5 by "Andy"
2000-05-10 20:37:49
andy@planetcrap.com
Val - walk with me on my journey of compassion...

You return home one night and there's a burglar in your house. He smacks you over the head with a bat and when you come around an hour later, you see that he has stolen your PC. You need to buy a replacement, but in your post-batted state you make the questionable decision to buy a Mac.

The next day your shiny new heap o' junk arrives. You set it up and then sit back, realising that you have absolutely no use for it because you're a home user who doesn't run a fanzine. Still concussed from the previous night's batting incident, you decide to buy a game. Hmm, perhaps that new Fly2k thing?

On to the net then, and you head for <a href="http://www.outpost.com/cgi-bin/bv.cgi?BV_EngineID=ialhjlilfhkbfdmcfmjcfmjdgh.0&BV_Operation=Dyn_RawSmartLink&BV_SessionID=1673546828&form%25destination=%2ftemplates%2fOutpost%2findex.tmpl&form%25destination_type=template&BV_ServiceName=Outpost">Outpost</a>, a site that does international mail-order. Oh look, there's a <a href="http://www.outpost.com/cgi-bin/bv.cgi?BV_EngineID=ialhjlilfhkbfdmcfmjcfmjdgh.0&BV_Operation=Dyn_CatIDAppdRecv&BV_SessionID=1673546828&form%25destination=%2ftemplates%2fOutpost%2fgames.tmpl&form%25destination_type=template&BV_ServiceName=Outpost">games link</a> right there in the middle of the page! You click on it, and then head for the <a href="http://www.outpost.com/cgi-bin/bv.cgi?BV_EngineID=ialhjlilfhkbfdmcfmjcfmjdgh.1&BV_Operation=Dyn_CatIDAppdRecv&form%25bv_cat_category_name=%2fOutpost%2fGames%2fMac+Games&BV_SessionID=1673546828&form%25destination=%2ftemplates%2fOutpost%2fproduct%2fproduct">Mac section</a>. Yippee, first game on the list is <a href="http://www.outpost.com/cgi-bin/bv.cgi?BV_EngineID=ialhjlilfhkbfdmcfmjcfmjdgh.3&BV_Operation=DynCo_SCReceive&form%25cnt_type=0&form%25observe_chose=0&form%25observe_selected=0&BV_SessionID=1673546828&form%25position=unspecified&form%25destination=%2ftempl">Fly2k</a>. You fill in your details, give your credit card number, and wait for the game to arrive.

At what point have you done <b>anything</b> wrong?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not entirely sympathetic to early adopters because nowadays I think it's a little naive to buy any game within the first few weeks of release, but as soon as there's any suggestion that they've done something to <b>deserve</b> shoddy treatment, I simply can't accept that.

Just for fun, let's take this to another level: Most 'hard-core' gamers probably expect Monolith's next game to have severe problems at release time. If one of those people buys the game on the first day it is released - <b>expecting</b> it to be broken - and they find that it's every bit as bad as they thought it would be, that means <b>absolutely nothing</b>. They have as much right to a working game as anyone else, and as much right to demand that it be fixed.

That's what I think, anyway. You may disagree, but then you've been smacked over the head so hard you bought a Mac...
#6 by "David Long"
2000-05-10 20:47:30
ogv@gamestats.com http://ogv.gamestats.com
<b>#5</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>
 On to the net then, and you head for Outpost, a site that does international mail-order. Oh look, there's a games link right there in the middle of the page! You click on it, and then head for the Mac section. Yippee, first game on the list is Fly2k. You fill in your details, give your credit card number, and wait for the game to arrive.
 
 At what point have you done anything wrong?
 
 Now don't get me wrong, I'm not entirely sympathetic to early adopters because nowadays I think it's a little naive to buy any game within the first few weeks of release, but as soon as there's any suggestion that they've done something to deserve shoddy treatment, I simply can't accept that.  
 </QUOTE>

What you did was not wrong, it was risky. You bought a game sight unseen from a foreign retailer knowing that if it was defective in any way, you'd have to send it back and pay the charges yourself. You took that risk based on where you live and how long it will take for the domestic release.  The responsibility for it is yours and yours alone.

GoD is handling this in the best way possible based on the current release of the game.  It's only available in the US and some retailers are taking it upon themselves to sell to the overseas market a product that is for domestic audiences.  If anyone should foot the bill, it would be Outpost, since the game is defective.  GoD is the creator and yes, they blew it.  However, they cannot be held accountable for your risky purchase through a retailer that is not in your territory.  That they are doing ANYTHING is pretty amazing to me since by the license agreement, you're probably not entitled to even get a replacement.  (The agreement is based on US law, not international law, I'll bet.)

Being a smart consumer is part of life.  Accepting that you made a mistake is another.  In this case, the overseas Mac Fly 2K buyer (a minority of a minority) took a risk by importing the game. If they got a bum disc, they can now return it at their cost.  Or they can go the better route and have the retailer they bought it from foot the bill.  I'll bet they would probably be more than happy to do so unless they have some crazy restocking fee or something.

Either way, this is making a mountain out of a molehill.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#7 by "Andy"
2000-05-10 20:55:33
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#6</b>, David Long:
<QUOTE>
Either way, this is making a mountain out of a molehill.
</QUOTE>
And another classic 'Crap attitude makes its unwelcome return.
#8 by "Phil Scott"
2000-05-10 20:56:56
phil@enkafan.com http://www.enkafan.com
<b>#5</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>
At what point have you done anything wrong?
</QUOTE>
Oh no!  Its just a matter of time before the same certification you need to have to open attachments will be applied to buying software.  

Questions will include name the developer and publisher of the software (this way you know what ftp site to get patches from).  You must also be able to name the programmers and program leads so you can check .plan files (map designers and artists only talk about their cars and stereos in their plan files) so you know the latest on the on going developement.  You must also have documented proof of bookmarks to most major gaming news sites.

Or walmart can simply tell their employees to smack anyone trying to buy the game within the first two weeks of release, because buying it so early is just damn stupid, and walmart cares about its customers.  
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#9 by "Valeyard"
2000-05-10 21:03:34
valeyard@ck3.net http://www.ck3.net
I've already said they deserve the game they paid for.  I also said it wasn't their fault.

I'm just trying to point out that the old saying "Buyer beware" exists for a reason.  If you don't want to fight it out with a company for the refund you deserve, exercise a little common sense and caution in your purchases.

That doesn't change what you're entitled to, or what you deserve...but it's still the reality of the situation.  Sorry if that reality offends your sensibilities.

If you buy a product from a company overseas, you have to be WILLING to accept the additional costs (international phone calls for support, etc.) that come with the territory.

For the last time:  These people paid for a game and they deserve to get it.  They also need to exercise the grey cells and weigh the risks before shopping.

Whether you're talking about Vauxhalls, Video Games or Vacuum Cleaners, the cost and level of support you'll get from a local company is considerably different from that of a foreign company.  If you can't accept that...don't buy the product.

-Valeyard
#10 by "Jafd"
2000-07-30 13:37:36
jafd@zombieworld.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com/
Hey! This topic is pointless!

er... sorry, just testing. :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#11 by Squeaky
2003-09-21 08:07:48
worst. topic. evar.

I have lost my way
But I hear a tale
About a heaven in Alberta
Where they've got all hell for a basement
DVDs
#12 by Huge Wood Farmer
2003-09-23 02:07:15
12 posts and going strong!

Hooray for Flowerpants!
#13 by Squeaky
2003-10-08 07:22:05
but this thread is mine!

The reason of your unreasonable usage of my reason, does so enfeeble my reason, that I have reason to expostulate with your beauty.
DVDs
#14 by Gabe
2003-10-08 07:22:52
http://www.dartpublishing.com
Right.
#15 by Squeaky
2003-10-08 07:39:20
fuck you all

The reason of your unreasonable usage of my reason, does so enfeeble my reason, that I have reason to expostulate with your beauty.
DVDs
#16 by Squeaky
2003-10-10 07:07:53
how's about we make this thread the biggest?

The reason of your unreasonable usage of my reason, does so enfeeble my reason, that I have reason to expostulate with your beauty.
DVDs
#17 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-10 15:08:49
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Too much effort.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#18 by Squeaky
2003-10-10 15:43:58
slacker...

The reason of your unreasonable usage of my reason, does so enfeeble my reason, that I have reason to expostulate with your beauty.
DVDs
#19 by Huge Wood Farmer
2003-10-10 17:41:35
roger that

coffeecoffeecoffeecoffeecoffee
#20 by Squeaky
2003-10-11 10:49:29
almost there...

...and you do not want to fuck with Tough Guy™!
DVDs
#21 by Dumdeedum
2003-12-29 06:53:06
http://www.dumdeedum.com
You'll never make it without Bob!

Game experience may change during online play.
#22 by Squeaky
2003-12-29 07:25:22
so what?

#23 by BobJustBob
2004-01-12 09:09:12
And another one! It seems I was right to not trust you.

Dood.
#24 by Squeaky
2004-01-12 09:14:11
#23 BobJustBob
And another one! It seems I was right to not trust you.

you're only just now noticing these?

#25 by BobJustBob
2004-01-12 09:26:45
I don't use OpenCrap, and I don't ever go to the archives. I'm only looking now because I'm horribly depressed/bored and not tired.

Dood.
#26 by Creole Ned
2004-01-12 09:46:20
Try drinking yourself into a stupor.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#27 by BobJustBob
2004-01-12 09:53:02
I thought of that, but it's so late. I wouldn't want to waste the alcohol.

Dood.
#28 by BobJustBob
2004-01-12 09:53:36
With 'getting drunk and then falling asleep 30 minutes later' being a waste of said alcohol.

Dood.
#29 by m0nty
2004-08-07 09:28:14
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
I agree, this topic is worst evar.
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