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No-One Codes Forever
December 26th 2000, 02:44 CET by FadedGlory

This is a bitch / rant / bah humbug Xmas day whine. So, go grab a mince pie and some egg nog, throw them in the bin, and read on.

I got NOLF for Christmas. I'm playing on a machine that way, WAY exceeds the minimum specs on the DVD-style case it came in, and I've downloaded the 13MB patch. (A patch that adds zero content, modifies a couple of features, and that's it. Oh yeah, and it invalidates your savegames. Of course, this is mentioned in the readme... which is displayed AFTER YOU INSTALL THE BLOODY PATCH. Cheers Jason.)

And by the by, I love the marketing spin -- it's not a patch, it's an "Update". In fact it's "Update #1", which means we can look forward to more updates! Woohoo!

Now, I was one of the few to own Shogo in Europe. Shogo, based on LithTech 1.0, was a neat game with a network code problem (that some feel never actually got resolved).

Shogo had a couple of endearing features. After you'd load a level, the first few seconds of play would be stuttery and jerky, presumably until the caching had sorted itself out. The AI made two short planks look like Einstein. But overall, it was a fun game.

Here comes NOLF. New engine, same problem with the stutter/jerk. In fact it's worse. This baby seems to be thrashing even after you're up and running, causing numerous "shit, where am I firing, oh I'm dead" moments.

Note: I'm not saying it thrashes all the time, just at critical points where it has to be doing something like loading a weapon model/sound, or some enemy conversation.

Curiously, the NOLF team .plan mentions that they're "working on the network code" for the NEXT patch... errr sorry, update.

Now, LithTech is like all the other engine teams -- they claim a modular system where you can write a new subsystem and slot it in. Got a new whizzbang renderer? Plug it in, throw the old one away. So, logically, the engines can only get better. Maybe they get stressed by the level of content, but that's where the "minimum spec to run this game" comes in. So, what gives with the network code? Haven't they learned anything since LithTech 1?

And my opinion of the game? It boils down to:

1. Sirens -- umm, TURN THEM OFF. I've killed every bloody badguy on the level and the siren is driving me nuts after ten minutes of continuous blaring. Someone from NOLF ought to go play Deus Ex and see how it should be done.

2. Speaking of which, they could also do with checking out Deus Ex's implementation of STEALTH and visibility. Try hiding around a corner in NOLF after the alarm's going and see where it gets you.

3. Cut Scenes. If I want to watch a movie, I'll find my copy of The Matrix and stick it in the DVD. There will be those who cry, "They develop the characters/story", and I agree, but there's development and there's being bludgeoned to death with dialogue during the start, middle and end of every sub-level.

Merry Xmas. Fade.
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#1 by "Timdog"
2000-12-26 02:56:45
thetimdog@hotmail.com
I used to say "People who don't like Half-life are like people who don't like pizza."

I now add the corollary:

"People who don't like NOLF are like people who don't like Half-Life."

-Tim<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#2 by "WarrenMarshall"
2000-12-26 03:08:31
warren@epicgames.com
Timdog (#1):
"People who don't like NOLF are like people who don't like Half-Life."

I like NOLF but he's got valid points.  The sneaking IS pretty much worthless ...

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#3 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-26 03:10:50
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#1</b> "Timdog" wrote...
<quote>I used to say "People who don't like Half-life are like people who don't like pizza."

I now add the corollary:

"People who don't like NOLF are like people who don't like Half-Life."

-Tim</quote>

While that may be true, he does make some good points.

OK, he's being a putz by centering on the naming standard for patches, but it's his article, and he can do that if he wants to be called a putz. :)

I probably like the game more than this guy does, but those siren's go on endlessly, with no way to turn them off, and they mar what I would otherwise call an above average, even excellent soundtrack.

As for the AI, all games have nit picking point when it comes to that, I can't think of any game that has it down pat. So his comments on that point are valid too.

I can't comment much on the graphical glitches though, since I'm still using a TNT2U, I don't expect everything to run like it's been lubed, I have to cut some slack when I experience problems with that, so I reserve comment on that until I stop being a cheapass and get a new video rig.

Cut scene's, I like those, but that's just my opinion, and he's quite welcome to a contrary one, they don't float his boat, not much we can do about that.

Having said that, I still think it's an excellent game, and this guy makes good points.  <i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#4 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-26 03:12:19
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#2</b> "WarrenMarshall" wrote...
<quote><B>Timdog</B> (#1):

<quote>"People who don't like NOLF are like people who don't like Half-Life."</quote>
I like NOLF but he's got valid points. The sneaking IS pretty much worthless ...

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)</quote>

Hey, you said what I was going to say, but beat me to the punch since I rambled (as usual).

So here's my 'me too' again on a warren comment.<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#5 by "Apache"
2000-12-26 03:57:41
apache@stomped.com
I got NOLF for Christmas. I'm playing on a machine that way, WAY exceeds the minimum specs on the DVD-style case it came in, and I've downloaded the 13MB patch. (A patch that adds zero content, modifies a couple of features, and that's it. Oh yeah, and it invalidates your savegames. Of course, this is mentioned in the readme... which is displayed AFTER YOU INSTALL THE BLOODY PATCH. Cheers Jason.)


Wow, you must have lost at least an hour of game time due to losing your saved games from the NOLF patch considering you got it today for Christmas.

And my opinion of the game? It boils down to:

1. Sirens -- umm, TURN THEM OFF. I've killed every bloody badguy on the level and the siren is driving me nuts after ten minutes of continuous blaring. Someone from NOLF ought to go play Deus Ex and see how it should be done.

2. Speaking of which, they could also do with checking out Deus Ex's implementation of STEALTH and visibility. Try hiding around a corner in NOLF after the alarm's going and see where it gets you.

3. Cut Scenes. If I want to watch a movie, I'll find my copy of The Matrix and stick it in the DVD. There will be those who cry, "They develop the characters/story", and I agree, but there's development and there's being bludgeoned to death with dialogue during the start, middle and end of every sub-level.


Whoa, you played the game for less than a day and 'reviewed' it. You should get a job at Daily Radar.
#6 by "The_Punisher"
2000-12-26 03:59:17
mario_lowang@hotmail.com
I belive on way to speed up the game in any enviroment is to use a FAST hard disk. By that I mean one of the new UDMA/100 or better. (i.e. SCSI) And if you have a new UDMA/100 hard disk make sure it is actually running at full speed, or close to. That means a compatible motherboard, correct 80 pin cable and sometimes specific drivers, usualy from Intel. Belive you me doing this will increase the load times and the "caching" problem. This is nothing new, but this game and many of the new and BIG ones are really hardware hogs. We have once again reached the top of the upgrads cycle which occurs every two years. That means that having the latest and gratest will run all current games just fine, as intended. That means having ALL major components in a system updated.
#7 by "The_Punisher"
2000-12-26 04:01:31
mario_lowang@hotmail.com
re: [5] Apache
---------------------------------------------------------

You funny monkey you..... ;-)
LOVED all your comments. FUNNY!!!!

Well said old chap.
Well done.
#8 by "Timdog"
2000-12-26 04:06:03
thetimdog@hotmail.com
In Post 2, a small furry animal named WarrenMarshall said:
<quote><B>Timdog</B> (#1):

<quote>"People who don't like NOLF are like people who don't like Half-Life."</quote>
I like NOLF but he's got valid points. The sneaking IS pretty much worthless ...

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)</quote>

I thought the sneaking was good, better than Deus Ex anyway. (though nowhere near the level of Thief I/II)

I think I set off like 3 alarms in the entire game, and two of those were during time-crunch levels.  The enemies won't notice you if you crouch and dash behind them (I had several levels where i killed no more than 10 people and got many stealth bonuses).  And the cameras are easy: when you hear a camera focusing - run directly at it. They can't see within about 10 feet.

And I still think he's bitching for the sake of bitching...

-Tim<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#9 by "pg19"
2000-12-26 04:31:39
pgharavi@home.com
"Whoa, you played the game for less than a day and 'reviewed' it. You should get a job at Daily Radar."

As opposed to what...getting a job at VE and whore forums all day for worthless news and post the 10,000th screenshot of a game?
#10 by "WarrenMarshall"
2000-12-26 04:38:10
warren@epicgames.com
Apache (#5):
Wow, you must have lost at least an hour of game time due to losing your saved games from the NOLF patch considering you got it today for Christmas.

So his point is invalid?

Timdog (#8):
I thought the sneaking was good, better than Deus Ex anyway. (though nowhere near the level of Thief I/II)

What?!  The sneaking in Deus Ex was excellent ... I actually COULD sneak past people and I could upgrade that skill and get better at it.  The sneaking mattered ... it doesn't matter in NOLF.  Try to sneak and someone WILL see you.  Even if you do get past someone, the next person will likely see you and the resulting firefight will bring the guy you snuck past running into the room.  So why bother ... just cap him.

Distracting the guards?  Please ... throw a coin and they run 5 feet and wander randomly.  Which means they are GOING to turn around as you try to sneak past them.

Bah!  Bah I say, BAH!

(... but yeah, Thief still has a lock on sneaking ...)

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#11 by "WarrenMarshall"
2000-12-26 04:38:56
warren@epicgames.com
Christmas must be over ... the bitterness is back!  ;)

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#12 by "Timdog"
2000-12-26 04:44:20
thetimdog@hotmail.com
In Post 10, a small furry animal named WarrenMarshall said:
<quote>What?! The sneaking in Deus Ex was excellent ... I actually COULD sneak past people </quote>

We must have been playing different games... Deus Ex (an excellent game, btw) was like an open firefight to me.  I got spotted/heard no matter what I did and ended up shooting it out. In NOLF, on the the other hand, I was able to sneak quite effectively and when I did kill people it was done New Jersey style (one shot to the back of the head and I buried them at Giant stadium :P)

-Tim<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#13 by "Timdog"
2000-12-26 04:53:04
thetimdog@hotmail.com
In Post 12, a small furry animal named Timdog said:
<quote>(one shot to the back of the head and I buried them at Giant stadium :P) </quote>

Err... I should say they disappeared after I 'talked' to them... :)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#14 by "Densun"
2000-12-26 05:44:13
densun@hotmail.com
I never had multiplayer problems with Shogo. I have a 56K, and so far no game has had smoother multiplayer than Shogo. That includes Quake 2/3 and Half-life with the new net code.
#15 by "Kallisti"
2000-12-26 06:06:47
kallisti@uswest.net
From the comments on sneaking in Deus Ex and NOLF, it has to be different personal play styles.

I sneaked (snuck?) all the time in DX, and had no problems. I was like the wind, grasshopper. But some people say they couldn't sneak? Did they go through the tutorial??

I haven't touched NOLF, so I can't say. But don't tell me you can't sneak in Deus Ex... :)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#16 by "GeorgeBroussard"
2000-12-26 06:33:57
georgeb@3drealms.com
I think NOLF is the best shooter since Half-Life....that said, it could use some tweaks (but so could any game in retrospect).  And it's interesting to note that you only really care about tweaking a game you cared about.

- Sirens - yeah, annoying.  Should have timed out.
- Cut scenes.  Great dialog etc, but long.  Too long.  Every person I know commented on being bored.  We should not try to be armchair directors, cause we suck at it.
- Sneaking - not real effective, but liked the missions where you HAD to sneak (office complex for example).
- Multiplayer - my feeling is either a) skip it ala Deus Ex, or b) do it right - to the level of DM play in UT/Q3 or any other game.  People spend months on it (or just tack it on) - and it's not worth the effort for 500 people online (if that).  Multiplayer is binary.  It rocks hard or it sucks hard.  No in between.

But NOLF as a single player game is brilliant.  And yeah, in the end, you like it or not.  I put up with minor annoyances because the game was so good.

Go buy it.  I can nitpick Diablo 2, Red Alert 2, The Sims or Quake 3/UT apart all day too.
#17 by "GeorgeBroussard"
2000-12-26 06:37:19
georgeb@3drealms.com
Oh yeah....

You played NOLF for a day?

Go away...talk to me once you finish the game, or get at least half way through (7-8 hours).  :)

I disregard any opinion unless people played a game for at least a few hours and got over the learning curve and tried to give it a chance.  Until then, your opinion means jack :)
#18 by "WarrenMarshall"
2000-12-26 07:22:36
warren@epicgames.com
GeorgeBroussard (#16):
- Sneaking - not real effective, but liked the missions where you HAD to sneak (office complex for example).

Sadly, that's where I stopped playing.  Not really a great to idea to build an entire mission around one of the games weaker concepts.  :-/

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#19 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-26 07:31:40
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#18</b> "WarrenMarshall" wrote...
<quote><B>GeorgeBroussard</B> (#16):

<quote>- Sneaking - not real effective, but liked the missions where you HAD to sneak (office complex for example).</quote>
Sadly, that's where I stopped playing. Not really a great to idea to build an entire mission around one of the games weaker concepts. :-/

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)</quote>

Actually, I agree with this point.  I had forgotten up to this point, but I ended up cheating my way past that mission after trying different things about 500 times.

I entered the cheat that pushes you along to the next mission. <i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#20 by "Apache"
2000-12-26 07:40:19
apache@stomped.com
Sadly, that's where I stopped playing. Not really a great to idea to build an entire mission around one of the games weaker concepts. :-/


Did you not find the secret room and gave up? (Need any tips?;)

The stuff after that is really good.
#21 by "Glock"
2000-12-26 07:44:43
glock17@tampabay.rr.com
Actually I did  pass the office complex.  I guess you aren't as l33t as me, Warren. ;)
#22 by "Apache"
2000-12-26 07:45:17
apache@stomped.com
the office was pretty tough, it took me ages to find the secret door.
#23 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-26 07:46:16
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#20</b> "Apache" wrote...
<quote><quote>Sadly, that's where I stopped playing. Not really a great to idea to build an entire mission around one of the games weaker concepts. :-/</quote>

Did you not find the secret room and gave up? (Need any tips?;)

The stuff after that is really good.</quote>

Secret room?  The one where you kick the boards in, in the can. and enter the construction area?<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#24 by "Apache"
2000-12-26 07:48:51
apache@stomped.com
no, I think he was stuck trying to find the baron's secret office.
#25 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-26 07:54:59
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#24</b> "Apache" wrote...
<quote>no, I think he was stuck trying to find the baron's secret office.</quote>


Hrm.. Now I'm confused.  I was thinking he was at another part of the game.  I've forgotten enough of the story, that I need to go back in to remember what the deal was with the baron's secret office.

I thought he was talking about the level where (I forget what it is your supposed to be doing, but like I said, I hopped my ass over it after about 500 tries.)  But are we talking about the one where the tips suggest doing things like using your lighter to ignite garbage in the trash cans and whatnot to create a diversion?

<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#26 by "WarrenMarshall"
2000-12-26 08:06:57
warren@epicgames.com
Barneyque (#25):
I thought he was talking about the level where (I forget what it is your supposed to be doing, but like I said, I hopped my ass over it after about 500 tries.) But are we talking about the one where the tips suggest doing things like using your lighter to ignite garbage in the trash cans and whatnot to create a diversion?

Yeah, that's the one ... I believe it's the Baron's office ... it's been a few weeks.  If there's a cheat, I'll probably just do that and move on.  I was having a lot of fun up to that point ... then I just got too pissed off to bother.

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#27 by "Apache"
2000-12-26 08:11:57
apache@stomped.com
I'll send you the secret (to not spoil it for others).
#28 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-26 08:16:29
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#27</b> "Apache" wrote...
<quote>I'll send you the secret (to not spoil it for others).</quote>

Would you mind sending that my way as well? I've got a week or so to kill around the house, and I'mplanning another romp through the game.

I'll email you my email addy so as not to get it full of spam.<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#29 by "Apache"
2000-12-26 08:21:55
apache@stomped.com
ok, sent
#30 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-26 08:30:25
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#29</b> "Apache" wrote...
<quote>ok, sent</quote>

OK, thanks, I'll be getting back into the game tomorrow, now if we can get Timdog to explain the finer art of sneaking in this game, I'll be all set.  My first pass through was quite the bloddy spectacle. :)

I did not even know you could get a stealth bounus.  :|<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#31 by "Apache"
2000-12-26 08:36:26
apache@stomped.com
haha that sounds like my experience with Deus Ex. :)

I KNOW you COULD sneak, but I got so powerful that I just blew the crap out of everything. Which to be honest I liked more...
#32 by "WarrenMarshall"
2000-12-26 08:39:50
warren@epicgames.com
Apache (#31):
haha that sounds like my experience with Deus Ex. :)

I KNOW you COULD sneak, but I got so powerful that I just blew the crap out of everything. Which to be honest I liked more...

People, people ... sneaking was the way to go in Deus Ex.  Fighting everyone is a bad idea.  Plus you feel SO much cooler when you get to the goal and they never knew you were there.  :)

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#33 by "superion"
2000-12-26 08:45:55
superion@spacemoose.com
well you're discounting that alot of people had to sneak, since they were getting such aborted framerates. jumping out into the chop zone would just be pointless.

*zing*
#34 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-26 08:47:07
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#32</b> "WarrenMarshall" wrote...
<quote><B>Apache</B> (#31):

<quote>haha that sounds like my experience with Deus Ex. :)

I KNOW you COULD sneak, but I got so powerful that I just blew the crap out of everything. Which to be honest I liked more...</quote>
People, people ... sneaking was the way to go in Deus Ex. Fighting everyone is a bad idea. Plus you feel SO much cooler when you get to the goal and they never knew you were there. :)

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)</quote>

With Deus Ex, I did a bit of both, often determined by present ammo levels.  The differnece being, in Deus Ex, I felt like I had a choice, in NOLF, sneaking, at least the way I snuk, was hopless, I was much safer to just take the life of anyone unfortunate enough to cross my path. I wish there had been more the powder shit that disolved bodies, that would have helped greatly.<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#35 by "Apache"
2000-12-26 08:49:08
apache@stomped.com
#33: The frame rates are about as bad as playing Deus Ex on a D3D based card.
#36 by "WarrenMarshall"
2000-12-26 08:57:11
warren@epicgames.com
Apache (#35):
The frame rates are about as bad as playing Deus Ex on a D3D based card.

You mean like my GeForce2, which ran great?

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#37 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-26 09:00:47
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#36</b> "WarrenMarshall" wrote...
<quote><B>Apache</B> (#35):

<quote>The frame rates are about as bad as playing Deus Ex on a D3D based card.</quote>
You mean like my GeForce2, which ran great?

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)</quote>

He might mean like my lowly TNT2U card, which did not run so hot until I installed the little fix that was released.  Afte that was added, things ran much better. I figure my card has at most six months of life in it, then I will be upgrading it to a lowly MX based card, I hear it will make a huge difference.<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#38 by "Apache"
2000-12-26 09:03:31
apache@stomped.com
Not everyone has a expensive top of the line GeForce 2 though :)

Not to mention it took ION awhile to patch Deus Ex with the latest Epic D3D code.

My frame rates are fine, but lets remember that Deus Ex wasen't exactly a 90fps gaming experience.
#39 by "WarrenMarshall"
2000-12-26 09:07:17
warren@epicgames.com
Apache (#38):
My frame rates are fine, but lets remember that Deus Ex wasen't exactly a 90fps gaming experience.

Yeah, but to be fair, it didn't need to be.

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#40 by "Kelster"
2000-12-26 10:38:38
kelster@planetstarsiege.com
Early on I sucked at Deus Ex because I played it like an action game (see bad guy, shoot bad guy). Once I started sneaking and thinking, I was hooked for a non-stop week (a few memorable all-nighters). Combat became fun when I could silently snipe with perfect accuracy (weapon mods and skill upgrades). Avoiding enemies in the shadows became entertaining.

...and the flashbacks begin...

What a great game!

-Kel
#41 by "FadedGlory"
2000-12-26 12:14:21
gam77@dial.pipex.com
Didn't expect this to get posted quite so quickly.

Apache - here's a step ladder, now you can get off your high horse. I didn't REVIEW the game, I posted my opinion on it. I got the game for Christmas, but didn't get it on Christmas day. I was in Berlin when the patch stuffed me over.

BTW, The patch DOES allow you to start any previously completed mission, so the damage is mitigated to the number of scenes you'd got through in the mission you were on at the time. This still doesn't justify it, but does help.

I'm persevering, and I'm at 'A Tenuous Lead, Scene 2'. My opinion hasn't changed.
#42 by "Gunp01nt"
2000-12-26 14:01:35
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Has anyone played Project IGI (aka I'm Going In) yet? This game claims to be all about sneaking as well, but I always end up blasting everyone down. Which is easy, cause guards in guard towers seem to be unable to see more than 10 feet away. Too bad you don't receive much ammo...

BTW it seems to me George B. is copying other people's comments, he could at least rephrase them :-)

To say that NOLF is better than Half-Life is, IMO, incorrect. You can't directly compare games with an age difference of 2 years, you have to judge games by the quality they had at the time of the release. Games are evolving and NOLF has undoubtedly used things learned from Half-Life. Then again, HL has used things learned from Duke3D, and so on.

BTW2: a 13 Mb patch?!?!??! that kinda reminds me of Sin.....:-(
#43 by "player11"
2000-12-26 15:00:38
thrawnage@bigpond.com
Sneaking in Deus: Oh come on :), I'll pay money to see you guys sneak though Maggie Chow's place to get the Nanosword thingy. While you could on the whole sneak like 50% of Deus EX, there were more than enough area's that forced the player to use force.

NOLF: I never snuck in Nolf except for that office mission which for me was one of the most thrilling levels. Hiding behide a crate in the unfinished room waiting for the guard to move on, ready to dash back into the breakroom.

Project IGI: Is another game that is pritty much 50% sneak and 50% forced combat. Which I dont have a problem with. Except for having to play perfectly on the very last level or face 20minutes of doing it all over again.

With that all said, I have to say that those 3 games have been some of the real highlights of gaming in '00
Play them now or face my wraith :)
#44 by "player11"
2000-12-26 15:04:12
thrawnage@bigpond.com
Quote from one of Apache's VE posts:
<quote>...Alice (which I still haven't played). </quote>
Dear god man, but isn't that your job?
#45 by "BloodKnight"
2000-12-26 16:59:43
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>Apache</b> (#5):
<quote>Whoa, you played the game for less than a day and 'reviewed' it. You should get a job at Daily Radar.</quote>

I would rather consider this as "First impressions"

<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#46 by "BloodKnight"
2000-12-26 17:04:32
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
</quote>
People, people ... sneaking was the way to go in Deus Ex. Fighting everyone is a bad idea. Plus you feel SO much cooler when you get to the goal and they never knew you were there. :)
<quote>

Come on..wouldn't be fun if you at least killed one person and they finally found out something is wrong after you leave :)
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#47 by "BloodKnight"
2000-12-26 17:04:41
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
curses!
<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#48 by "WarrenMarshall"
2000-12-26 17:18:34
warren@epicgames.com
player11 (#43):
Sneaking in Deus: Oh come on :), I'll pay money to see you guys sneak though Maggie Chow's place to get the Nanosword thingy. While you could on the whole sneak like 50% of Deus EX, there were more than enough area's that forced the player to use force.

Sure, you couldn't sneak the entire game ... but when you COULD, it WORKED.  And that's the key ...

BloodKnight (#46):
Come on..wouldn't be fun if you at least killed one person and they finally found out something is wrong after you leave :)

I started to replay it a few weeks back and I was able to complete the first level in record time since I knew precisely where to go and went there directly.  I only killed those people that I had to ... which amounted to (I think) 1 or 2 guards.  Everyone else I snuck past.  It was great.  And when I got back to HQ, everyone's comments and attitudes towards me had changed (the first time I played, I killed nearly everyone) ... games that adapt and react to you just kick ass.

**semi spoiler**
**semi spoiler**
**semi spoiler**

I also remember talking about the game with people at work ... Someone mentioned the fight with Gunther was tough.  I said I just used his killword and he exploded right away.  They never found that and they had to fight him.  That rocks.  :)

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#49 by "Preacher"
2000-12-26 17:22:56
preacher@unreality.org
#9: LMAO!
#50 by "player11"
2000-12-26 18:02:03
thrawnage@bigpond.com
<quote>I also remember talking about the game with people at work ... Someone mentioned the fight with Gunther was tough. I said I just used his killword and he exploded right away. They never found that and they had to fight him. That rocks. :)</quote>

Well he got an Upgrade canister :), Because to find out Gunther's killphrase you have to tell your medic d00d (cant remember his name) to stay at Unatco and spy for you. However he gets kicked out anyway and meets you in France.

However your buddy told him "medic dood" to come with him and leave unatco. Because of that he met up with him in Honk Kong at the triad base.

Other Cool things to try in D E U S E X :):
Save Paul's life
Don't help the family at the Ton Hotel

Also has anyone tried NOT to kill Anna Navario(sp?) and thus have Gunther not come after you ?

God I love how a trvial little text option makes such a huge(kinda) change on the game. Really!
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