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...and GOD said, let there be tits
December 20th 2000, 07:52 CET by Andy

And so it was. At last week's CPL event, that is, where the Gathering of Developers got a bunch of geeks in a room and baffled them with strippers...

WomenGamers.com has coverage of the ensuing controversy.

Angel Minoz, founder of the CPL, is quoted as saying:

God Games did that in a separate room that they obtained from the hotel and the CPL had no part in it. The CPL does not dictate morals to other companies, especially those named God. :)

An un-named spokesperson for Babbages, the US retail chain which sponsored the event, says:

Babbage's Etc. would like to let its customers know that we had no prior knowledge of the Gathering of Developers' t-shirt giveaway, nor do we condone activities such as this. It is disappointing that this controversial event happened and that it has taken away from the focus of the competition. Our hope in sponsoring such competitions is that we are bringing together and supporting fans of this industry. Hopefully, future events will remain focused and be remembered for their success in uniting the gaming community.

As you might expect, some people posting in the WomenGamers.com discussion see GoD's use of strippers as degrading to women, while others express concern that children attending the event could have got an eye-full. (Of course, a 14 year old with a PC will have never seen a naked woman before.)

So, bad taste by GoD or much ado about nothing?

And if it's okay to have WomenGamers.com, does someone want to help me start WhiteGamers.com or NoGaysPlease.com? Don't worry, we'll only discriminate in a positive way, so that's cool.
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#1 by "WarrenMarshall"
2000-12-20 07:58:25
warren@epicgames.com
And here I thought this was a topic about Giants.  :P

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#2 by "SteveBauman"
2000-12-20 07:59:34
steve@manic-pop-thrills.com
And if it's okay to have WomenGamers.com, does someone want to help me start WhiteGamers.com or NoGaysPlease.com? Don't worry, we'll only discriminate in a positive way, so that's cool.

Because clearly race, sexual preference and gender are all the same things.

And how exactly does womengamers.com discriminate? I didn't realize you weren't able to read the site because you're a man, or sign up for their forums.

And you're more then welcome to start up those sites, and I'm sure you'll have some cool people join up. Knock yourself out.
#3 by "Andy"
2000-12-20 08:03:35
andy@meejahor.com
<b>SteveBauman</b> (#2):
<quote>
And you're more then welcome to start up those sites, and I'm sure you'll have some cool people join up. Knock yourself out.
</quote>
Wow. I assumed *someone* wouldn't get it, but...
#4 by "SteveBauman"
2000-12-20 08:14:55
steve@manic-pop-thrills.com
Wow. I assumed *someone* wouldn't get it, but...

And I assumed you wouldn't get it either... does a double dose of irony cancel itself out?
#5 by "Kallisti"
2000-12-20 09:06:50
kallisti@uswest.net
Please please <b>please</b> let some dimwitted person show up and start posting about how <i>horrible</i> the practice of willing women exposing their bodies to a willing audience is.

/me smells blood in the water
#6 by "AshRain"
2000-12-20 09:13:52
ikhier@wish.net
Who gives a damn if some people hire strippers in an hotel on some event.
some people posting in the WomenGamers.com discussion see GoD's use of strippers as degrading to women,

Last time I looked there was such a thing like MALE strippers. Target audience was male => female strippers. Target audiance is female => male strippers. (I went to a school with mostly females, and during the graduation party => male stripper. Scarred me for life :)
Not to mention the fact that the strippers themselves don't consider their job to be degrading at all.
others express concern that children attending the event could have got an eye-full

So what if they did? What mental traumas would they suffer? (I'm talking about the children here, cause the parents would suffer from mental traumas apparently.
And why would the strippers start undressing while they are still walking down the hall towards the elvator?

Thank god I live in a nation that wouldn't even notice this whole happening as being odd.
#7 by "superion"
2000-12-20 09:28:09
superion@spacemoose.com
http://www.hardocp.com/news_images/2000/dec2k/wood_wood.html

that has to be the best picture ever. poor redwood. :(

having strippers around period is just in bad taste. i try and stay as far away as possible from anyone that wants to give me a lapdance for $2..
#8 by "Dethstryk"
2000-12-20 09:34:37
jemartin@tcainternet.com
<b>Andy</b> (Post #0):
<quote>And if it's okay to have WomenGamers.com, does someone want to help me start WhiteGamers.com or NoGaysPlease.com? Don't worry, we'll only discriminate in a <I>positive</I> way, so that's cool.
</quote>
I'd be all up for it, just to see the controversy fly.

<b>SteveBauman</b> (Post #2):
<quote>And you're more then welcome to start up those sites, and I'm sure you'll have some cool people join up. Knock yourself out.</quote>
The problem I see with a site such as WomenGamers is the shitty double-standard that comes along with it. Take Andy's examples: WhiteGamers.com, and to rename the second one a bit better, HeterosexualGamers.com. If these sites were to pop up, it'd be a shit storm.. but say BlackGamers or GayGamers wouldn't be a problem at all. *shrug*

<b>Kallisti</b> (Post #5):
<quote>Please please <B>please</B> let some dimwitted person show up and start posting about how <I>horrible</I> the practice of willing women exposing their bodies to a willing audience is.
</quote>
I'm sure one will pop up anytime now.


--
Dethstryk
#9 by "wabut"
2000-12-20 11:21:20
wabut@yahoo.com
if God sent male strippers to womengamers.com before the cpl, you think they'd a) refuse them? b) accept them and let the female strippers at the cpl go by?  or c) accept them and then be whiny hypocrits about the female strippers?
#10 by "datafox"
2000-12-20 11:31:34
datafox@yahoo.com
chinkgamers.com will be mine or anyother domain name with chink, coolie or chinaman are good also.

Everyone is different and has many different ideas about a subject. Our problem is that many are not willing to respect the opinions of others.

Apparently some women do not mind being strippers, so why are they wrong for doing it?
#11 by "Morn"
2000-12-20 12:35:57
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Andy (#0):
And if it's okay to have WomenGamers.com, does someone want to help me start WhiteGamers.com or NoGaysPlease.com? Don't worry, we'll only discriminate in a <I>positive</I> way, so that's cool.

And just remember that nasty site, eurogamer.net!

:P

- Morn
<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#12 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-12-20 13:59:01
appliedavoidance@mindspring.com
<b><u>superion</u></b>, in the delightfully enlightening post <b>#7</b>, babbled the following:
<quote>having strippers around period is just in bad taste. i try and stay as far away as possible from anyone that wants to give me a lapdance for $2..</quote>

now, if somebady were to offer him a lapdance for $1 dollar, well, then how can you pass on that price..
<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#13 by "the_reformed_pianist"
2000-12-20 14:11:12
pianist@canada.com
FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  13th post. :(
#14 by "the_reformed_pianist"
2000-12-20 14:23:22
pianist@canada.com
WomenGamers.com is quite the silly site, they appear to only review flight sims and golf games... because women apparently can't tell the difference between on-screen sex/violence and real life, leaving them with racing games, sports games, and flight sims, and also meaning they can't watch The Glimmer Man starring Steven Seagal or they might walk into a restaraunt and kick people's asses. It's a self-deprecating site, and in a time where we are striving to make all gamers equal (that sounded super-gay (no offence to the gay community)), WomenGamers.com is taking one giant step backward for womynkind.

In closing, strippers rule.
#15 by "the_reformed_pianist"
2000-12-20 14:31:16
pianist@canada.com
AshRain (#5):
Thank god I live in a nation that wouldn't even notice this whole happening as being odd.

(that's not as easy without Crapspy)

What nation would that be?
#16 by "Preacher"
2000-12-20 15:00:59
preacher@unreality.org
2 dollars for a lapdance?
Hook me up, bro
#17 by "dsmart"
2000-12-20 15:06:25
dsmart@3000ad.com
<quote>And I assumed you wouldn't get it either... does a double dose of irony cancel itself out?</quote>

....not when one side is as dense as a doorknob. We all know which side that is.

Nothing to see here. We all know Andy is an ass. Let's move on shall we?

<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#18 by "the_reformed_pianist"
2000-12-20 15:19:21
pianist@canada.com
uh oh, Derek Smart© runs the show now.
#19 by "TomC"
2000-12-20 15:26:19
tc10@st-andrews.ac.uk
Derek - yes, you, Mr. Smart. Derek Smart, PhD (Possibly has Degree):

Grow up. If you have something useful to say, say it; if not, shut it.

That is all.
#20 by "szcx"
2000-12-20 16:28:39
nedocze@hotmail.com
since when is a supportive or awareness-raising website the same as a discriminative one?  womengamers.com tagline is "Because Women DO Play", not "Because Women are the Superior Gender" or "When We Seize Power, Men Will Be First Against the Wall".

clearly http://www.glaad.org is in the same category as http://www.godhatesfags.com
#21 by "the_reformed_pianist"
2000-12-20 16:51:51
pianist@canada.com
As a sidenote to my post #14, I am not opposed to sports and racing games, I like rally games myself... but not because nobody gets their dick blown off in them, it's because I enjoy them. I also Like AirXonix. I fucking rock cock at AirXonix. Download it. Try to beat my high score. I forget the exact number but it's around 151,000. But it won't sell many copies because of the name............. or something.

In closing, strippers rule.
#22 by "Durzel"
2000-12-20 17:07:52
durzel@barrysworld.com
since when is a supportive or awareness-raising website the same as a discriminative one?


Womengamers.com, by its very definition, infers segregation in the gaming community.  I've never understood why it would be necessary for female gamesplayers to receive a rose-tinted digest of gaming news, surely the same news is of interest to everyone who plays games - be they male or female.

The whole premise of womengamers.com suggests that there is some kind of divide in the gaming community, and it is arguably exactly the same (as just as questionable) as blackgamers.com, heterosexualgamers.com, or whatever.  I would personally say, were I a woman, that the suggestion that I somehow needed a female slant on gaming news and events would lead me to assume that I wasn't a part of the "real" gaming community at all.
#23 by "Durzel"
2000-12-20 17:09:48
durzel@barrysworld.com
Incidentally, the dictionary definition (according to mine anyway) of "discrimination" is:

dis·crim·i·na·tion (d-skrm-nshn)
n.

The act of discriminating.
The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.
Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: “It's necessary to eliminate all forms of sexual discrimination” (Jimmy Carter). See Usage Note at bias.


Food for thought.
#24 by "GhostinmyShell"
2000-12-20 17:14:31
ghostinmyshell@triad.rr.com
Whats the bfd they did it in a private room with 18 and over adults...wtf....cant gamers have fun too....?
#25 by "deadlock"
2000-12-20 17:38:14
deadlock@eircom.net
cant gamers have fun too....?

No, because we live in a PC world, where it is frowned upon for anyone to have an opinion that might be viewed as offensive to others, regardless of whether or not your right to free speech and free thought is guaranteed by your particular variety of law and constitution.

I'm probably attracting some flames here, but if someone wants to stand up and say 'i dislike queers' or 'i think women are a bit thick' or even 'i think men are a bit thick' then fair fucking dues, it's their right to think like that and it's also their right to remain ignorant.

By the way, I like looking at tits, so fuck off.

deadlock
#26 by "SteveBauman"
2000-12-20 17:49:18
steve@manic-pop-thrills.com
Womengamers.com, by its very definition, infers segregation in the gaming community.

So does "PlanetQuake." What's your point? Does every website need to be inclusive and cover everything with some monolithic view? Would "Family Gamer" receive your ire? "Christian Gamer?"

Segragation implies that other people cannot view the information. There's nothing stopping men from visiting womengamers.com, so what's the issue? It's just a statement, that this is a site that posts news from a certain perspective, just like VoodooExtreme.

I've never understood why it would be necessary for female gamesplayers to receive a rose-tinted digest of gaming news, surely the same news is of interest to everyone who plays games - be they male or female.

Most gaming sites are seemingly written for 15-year old boys. If it's not pimp-talk about "slipping the hootchie the love twinkie" it's going out of their way to post "booth babe" pictures from E3 or the latest Angelina Jolie Lara Croft photos. There's nothing wrong with those things, but perhaps you'd like news that wasn't slanted like that, or if you're concerned about sexist imagery maybe you'd like to find out which companies go out of their way NOT to be sexist so you can choose to support them, or go out of their way to objectify women (like GOD).

I find it amusing that this little boys club of gaming even cares about "womengamers.com." Everyone gets on their high horse, "I can't start 'whitesupremacistgamer.com'." Do you feel threatened? Are you jealous? What's the issue?

Blah blah blah. You say, "Why do they need to be separate." I say, "Why do you even care if they choose to be separate?" Are you anti-community? Why shouldn't women gamers have their own community? If you're opposed to that, maybe you should be opposed to the Quake community as it's essentially excluding fans of RollerCoaster Tycoon.

Oh wait, they can be a part, just like men can be a part of womengamers.com. Funny how that works.
#27 by "SteveBauman"
2000-12-20 17:51:17
steve@manic-pop-thrills.com
Whats the bfd they did it in a private room with 18 and over adults...wtf....cant gamers have fun too....?

Sure they can, but based on one account I heard, the people entering that room didn't know there would be topless strippers (or at least they were surprised when she stripped), and they all may or may not have been 18 (do strip clubs in the region require you to be 21?).
#28 by "fyrewolf"
2000-12-20 17:57:21
csweitzer@intellution.com
Usually strip clubs require you to be 21 because they serve alcohol.
#29 by "deadlock"
2000-12-20 18:17:14
deadlock@eircom.net
depends where you are fyrewolf. you need to be 18 here.

deadlock
#30 by "SteveBauman"
2000-12-20 18:36:57
steve@manic-pop-thrills.com
Usually strip clubs require you to be 21 because they serve alcohol.

Not necessarily. For example, strip clubs in my area weren't allowed to serve alcohol and still required you to be 21, I believe.
#31 by "AmbushBug"
2000-12-20 18:41:51
ambushbug@portalofevil.com
In California it's typically 21+ for the topless places as they serve Alcohol and 18+ for the Non-Alcholol places were the women are totally nekked.

Considering what sort of history GOD has (E3 Video??) I cant see how anyone is suprised, but I would be suprised if nobody was offended.
#32 by "Desiato"
2000-12-20 18:44:27
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com
Funny how all the puritans are just giving G.O.D. free publicity....

Don't they ever learn? You don't bury something by discussing it 24/7.

Just like controversial music. You may not like Eminem, but hell - he's gone platinum over the controversy and free publicity his stuff generates. Makes you feel like you're just a noisy income-producing cog in the machine, doesn't it?

Hah.

Desiato..
#33 by "Sgt_Hulka"
2000-12-20 19:08:24
rwaring@ameritech.net
#32 - Desiato - I totally agree.  That's why my next game "Violencia" will sell millions.
#34 by "GhostinmyShell"
2000-12-20 19:10:36
ghostinmyshell@triad.rr.com
You have to be at least 18 to enter a strip club. However to buy alcohol you have to be 21, some strip clubs only allow 21 year olds to avoid some 19 yr accidently getting some beer, and then getting the club into holy hell.
#35 by "PainKilleR"
2000-12-20 19:15:30
painkiller@planetfortress.com
<b>GhostinmyShell</b> (#34):
<quote>You have to be at least 18 to enter a strip club. However to buy alcohol you have to be 21, some strip clubs only allow 21 year olds to avoid some 19 yr accidently getting some beer, and then getting the club into holy hell.</quote>

Actually, here in California, you can't sell drinks and have women fully nude. So the clubs that are 18+ are fully nude, while the clubs that are 21+ are only topless. Don't ask me, California's laws are screwed...

-PainKilleR-[CE]
#36 by "PainKilleR"
2000-12-20 19:19:34
painkiller@planetfortress.com
oops, looks like I'm repeating something already said, guess I should finish reading the thread before commenting

-PainKilleR-[CE]
#37 by "12xu"
2000-12-20 19:22:48
mswitzer@insync.net
let me be the spoiler here...

unless everyone in that room was expecting nudity, there shouldn't have been any...

Some people might have had moral or religious problems with it...and if they had known what was going to go on, they might not have been there...

12xu
out<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#38 by "GhostinmyShell"
2000-12-20 19:24:25
ghostinmyshell@triad.rr.com
hahah i went to the womengamers.com site, and if you look in the lower left you see shadow outlines(forgive my lack of art terminology) you will see the shape of a character picture of Tifa from FF7...I find that very ironic concerning the bitching they are doing over this non-bfd....

Oh no there were ppl having sex in the hotel as well, I guess the CPL is a sham! What these gamers did in the privacy of their own room is no ones business...
#39 by "the_reformed_pianist"
2000-12-20 19:24:55
pianist@canada.com
Nudity rules. I'm nude right now.
#40 by "GhostinmyShell"
2000-12-20 19:25:17
ghostinmyshell@triad.rr.com
#37 Then they should get up and leave if they are offended...and obviously none of them are if none of them are complaining...
#41 by "Sgt_Hulka"
2000-12-20 19:30:33
rwaring@ameritech.net
Just remember ** "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur"


** Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
#42 by "SteveBauman"
2000-12-20 19:30:47
steve@manic-pop-thrills.com
unless everyone in that room was expecting nudity, there shouldn't have been any...

Exactly. I made that point earlier, that one account I heard specifically said he did not know the woman was going to get nekkid.

Whether or not you approve of strippers is irrelevant; if someone doesn't want to be exposed to them (pun intended), they shouldn't be lured to an area under the pretense of receiving a free T-shirt only to have the person handing them out remove her own shirt. And the opposite holds true; how would you feel if it said, "NUDE WOMAN HANDING OUT SHIRTS" and then you found she wasn't actually nekkid?
#43 by "SteveBauman"
2000-12-20 19:32:43
steve@manic-pop-thrills.com
Then they should get up and leave if they are offended...and obviously none of them are if none of them are complaining...

And they did, and someone apparently was offended enough to contact that site, tell them what happened, and they reported on it.

I saw another person posting on Fatbabies forum, of all places, complaining about it.
#44 by "Rantage"
2000-12-20 19:34:52
rantage@hotmail.com
I'd say this falls under "bad taste by GoD" and "much ado about nothing".
#45 by "Sgt_Hulka"
2000-12-20 19:37:02
rwaring@ameritech.net
The Drudge Report claims that after he leaves the White House next month, Bill Clinton may launch a weekly TV interview show. Clinton friend Linda Bloodworth-Thomason has reportedly pitched the idea, with NBC expressing interest.

I guess with Lieberman losing the election, NBC isn't worried about censoring the sleazier TV shows anymore!
#46 by "PainKilleR"
2000-12-20 19:43:48
painkiller@planetfortress.com
<b>Sgt_Hulka</b> (#45):
<quote>I guess with Lieberman losing the election, NBC isn't worried about censoring the sleazier TV shows anymore!</quote>

Lieberman was re-elected, but lost the election that would've given him the Vice President slot. He didn't have the balls to give up a seat in Congress while running for VP ;)

-PainKilleR-[CE]
#47 by "Monkey_Butler"
2000-12-20 19:47:12
wash@sirius.com
Well, it looks like the guy that complained about it IS part of the womengamers.com community.  Partypooper.
#48 by "Sgt_Hulka"
2000-12-20 19:53:59
rwaring@ameritech.net
I would rather have my kids watching boobies than watching someone get killed.

George Carlin said it best when he said, Try changing the words kill with f*ck in an old Western, John Wayne says to the bad guy, "Well pilgrim, I'm about to f*ck you, have anything to say first"
#49 by "Sgt_Hulka"
2000-12-20 19:55:04
rwaring@ameritech.net
PainKiller! Cool name, that's actually an award in PainKeep Arena!  

Also, the Lieberman thing, it was a joke.
#50 by "Sgt_Hulka"
2000-12-20 19:55:30
rwaring@ameritech.net
"let there be tits "

Wasn't that a song by AC/DC?
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