PlanetCrap 6.0!
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
T O P I C
RAMbus on a RAMpage
December 14th 2000, 15:57 CET by AshRain

RAMBUS, the company which holds the patent to RDRAM memory, has been busy lately. They work very hard to make a profit. They only problem is that they try to do it in a strange way...

The one thing that RAMBUS has become famous for is that they sue almost everyone for patent infringement. Companies like Infinion (article) and AMD and Transmeta (article) -- just to name a few -- have all been targeted. It almost seems that to be hip in Silicon Valley you need to be sued by RAMBUS. Even NVIDIA came under attack recently, as their latest quaterly report contained an interesting piece of text:

We have in the past been subject to patent infringement suits with SGI and S3 Incorporated, both of which were settled and resulted in cross-licenses and, in the case of SGI, payments by us. In addition, we may be subject to patent infringement suits brought by other parties in the future. For example, we have been advised by Rambus Inc. that it believes our products infringe certain patents owned by Rambus and requesting that we agree to certain licensing terms, including royalty payments. We believe the Rambus patents are invalid, not infringed and unenforceable. Although we currently are having discussions with Rambus regarding potential business alternatives to Rambus' proposed licensing terms, we cannot guarantee that we will be able to reach a satisfactory agreement with Rambus. If we are unable to do so, Rambus may sue us for patent infringement at any time.

We may be unable to adequately protect our intellectual property.

That last sentence I find somewhat disturbing -- NVIDIA might suffer a loss in quality in their future cards if they lose the lawsuit. And that would be a Bad Thing.

Of course, this kind of behavior leads to more lawsuits, but this time against RAMBUS, such as this one.

Even worse for RAMBUS, they where reprimanded for what the ICT called "judge shopping" (article). Intel, while saying at the beginning of the year that they would go for a RAMBUS-only approach, recently cut most if not all of their ties with Rambus (article). I wonder why they would do that. Oh wait, no I don't.

Despite all of this, it doesn't seem that RAMBUS has any intention of stopping their Jihad vs any company that uses RAM. Hell no, they even are expanding the battlezone. Recently they gave this interview which is pretty self-explanatory.

Why, one would ask, is RAMBUS on such a collision course with everything and everyone? They seem to piss everyone off. As it seems RDRAM isn't even much faster or better than a good brand of PC133 SDRAM. And the price is much higher. Of course, the high price is because manufacturers are unwilling to produce RDRAM. The deal RAMBUS made with Intel a while back involved Intel 'pushing' RDRAM onto the market. Manufacterers became pretty pissed because of that. And now that Intel seems to have withdrawn itself, there are no reasons left to make RDRAM.

The fact that there are companies which can only make money by acting like this sounds pretty crappy to me.
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: RAMbus on a RAMpage

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
#1 by "fyrewolf"
2000-12-14 16:24:02
csweitzer@intellution.com
The worst thing about my new computer is that I stupidly chose RDRAM.  Idiot.
#2 by "Greg"
2000-12-14 17:10:03
greg417@worldnet.att.net
Haha, my new computer has RDRAM in it too - couldn't choose not to get it though. It was the price to pay for wanting dual processors. Of course, I put a good bit of RAM in there to begin with, so hopefully I won't have to add any more.

Oh yeah, in an ironic twist of fate (not) the system came with a GeForce2.

Greg
#3 by "RyslinANDIndigo"
2000-12-14 19:54:40
ryslinmoon@yahoo.com
note to self -


buy no rambus stock..[if avalible]
buy no system with rambus in it!
pray for those poor companys ..or not so poor companys that need to nuke rambus off the map..


as i hear it rambus hasnt a leg to stand on..
other developers had patented what they did ...rambus added a bit and poof!

<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#4 by "sentinel"
2000-12-14 22:19:20
jeroen@metallica.com
First of all I think the problem is partially in the patenting system... If RAMBUS somehow managed to patent something that RAM-producers have been using for years, then there are two possibilities:

- Everyone except RAMBUS is stupid for not patenting it. I know some JEDEC members claimed that there were agreements between RAM-producers not to patent certain technologies so everyone could use them. That's dumb. They should have instead patented it together and release the standard as a public domain technology. Still, if this is the case then the patent should be easily overturned since all those companies should be able to prove prior art.
- It's a totally stupid or extremely obvious patent. Then the patent office is to blame.

Another possibility is that RAMBUS actually did come up with the designs and if that's the case then I'm afraid they're right about taking all those companies to court. Just because everybody rips you off simultaneously, doesn't mean it's right.
#5 by "fyrewolf"
2000-12-14 22:33:26
csweitzer@intellution.com
I don't think RAMBUS has really developed anything.  I think they actually purchased the majority of their IP from other computers.  Not sure though.
#6 by "AshRain"
2000-12-14 22:47:18
ikhier@wish.net
I think they are going to be bankrupt within the year if they keep this up.
#7 by "The_Joker"
2000-12-15 01:07:11
joker@junkextreme.com
YEEEEEHAAAAWWW!!!!!!
I'm baaaahaaaack!!!
Where's everyone though? mcgrew, you out there? how'r the girlies?

Joker.
#8 by "None1a"
2000-12-15 02:27:02
none1a@home.com
I find this rather troubleing.

<i>Rambus says those royalties are at higher rates than what it gets for licenses of its Direct Rambus format</i>

That's from the first linked article. If all of these lawsuits are won by Rambus we'll all be stuck with RDRAM (onyl companies selling to hardcore computer users are going to produce DDR SDRAM and things to use it if it cost more to produce then RDRAM does).

Any one have any idea what patents Rambus clames are being used? <i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#9 by "AshRain"
2000-12-15 09:01:27
ikhier@wish.net
As far as I can tell Rambus has or thinks they have patents on praticly every RAM tech after EDO RAM. Or in other words everyone who uses some sort of SDRAM is being targeted. I don't think it will be long before Creative Labs is sued for using some kind of patented RAM on their SoundBlasters.

I really REALLY hope Rambus will go out of buisness real soon. Even though that would be a bitch for all those people who already own RDRAM.

Then again, serves you right for buying a complete system. :P
#10 by "AshRain"
2000-12-15 09:03:12
ikhier@wish.net
Btw. For all the people that are confused about all these forms of RAM and their differences. Read this.
#11 by "BloodKnight"
2000-12-16 01:30:00
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
When do we see a topic on 3DFX selling themselves ?

<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#12 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-12-16 02:04:22
appliedavoidance@mindspring.com
<b><u>BloodKnight</u></b>, in the delightfully enlightening post <b>#11</b>, babbled the following:
<quote>When do we see a topic on 3DFX selling themselves ?

</quote>

Soon as you post one??
<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#13 by "legion88"
2000-12-16 02:43:40
legion88@yahoo.com
It ain't a real surprise that 3dfx is selling its "core business".  S3 did it.  The surprise, though, is the choice of buyer.  Why pick NVIDIA over ATi, for instance?  Maybe NVIDIA provided the better offer?

Another related issue is all those 3dfx supporters who spent literally years badmouthing the competition.  One of them just two months ago claimed that I was paid by NVIDIA for criticizing 3dfx last year.  What will they do now?  Will they jump ship to NVIDIA's boat and continue their unethical ways?
#14 by "None1a"
2000-12-16 02:57:54
none1a@home.com
<b>legion88</b> (#13):
<quote>What will they do now? Will they jump ship to NVIDIA's boat and continue their unethical ways?</quote>


Take a look around the 3dfxgamers message board. Some are going with Nvidia, ohers act like their not going to buy any thing at all.

Mostly tho them seem a little worried about now Nvidia fans are going to react to them and what has happened (I don't think many have even thought about what they'd buy in the future yet).<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#15 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-16 03:16:36
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#14</b> "None1a" wrote...
<quote><B>legion88</B> (#13):

<quote>What will they do now? Will they jump ship to NVIDIA's boat and continue their unethical ways?</quote>


Take a look around the 3dfxgamers message board. Some are going with Nvidia, ohers act like their not going to buy any thing at all.

Mostly tho them seem a little worried about now Nvidia fans are going to react to them and what has happened (I don't think many have even thought about what they'd buy in the future yet).</quote>

They will probably buy exactly what I've been buying since I got my TNT2U.

Nothing.  All the good cards are priced on the highoutside edge of the average consumer pain threshold.  Especially if you don't get to use American dollars at the till.  With the AUS, CAN, and Euro money in the tank, video cards are just plain too fucking expensive.

It's not uncommon to see a video card out price a mobo+cpu combo, and that's totally fucked up in my world.  It does not compute as they used to say.
<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#16 by "WarrenMarshall"
2000-12-16 03:22:35
warren@epicgames.com
Barneyque (#15):
They will probably buy exactly what I've been buying since I got my TNT2U.

Nothing. All the good cards are priced on the highoutside edge of the average consumer pain threshold. Especially if you don't get to use American dollars at the till. With the AUS, CAN, and Euro money in the tank, video cards are just plain too fucking expensive.

But you can get a Geforce for around $100 now if I remember correctly ... even if you don't want the latest and greatest, you can definitely do better than a TNT2U ...

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#17 by "Kallisti"
2000-12-16 03:26:16
kallisti@uswest.net
dammit! now I'm <i>never</i> gonna see DX8 drivers for my 2 voodoo^2s... :(<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#18 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-16 03:40:00
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#16</b> "WarrenMarshall" wrote...
<quote><B>Barneyque</B> (#15):

<quote>They will probably buy exactly what I've been buying since I got my TNT2U.

Nothing. All the good cards are priced on the highoutside edge of the average consumer pain threshold. Especially if you don't get to use American dollars at the till. With the AUS, CAN, and Euro money in the tank, video cards are just plain too fucking expensive.</quote>
But you can get a Geforce for around $100 now if I remember correctly ... even if you don't want the latest and greatest, you can definitely do better than a TNT2U ...

---

Warren Marshall
Level Designer/Programmer/Corporate Shill
Epic Games (www.epicgames.com)</quote>

Possibly, but I don't want a geforce256, I really don't see them as being THAT much better than a tnt2u (for current games I play), I suppose I could grab an entry level card like an MX for about 250 out the door, but that seems like a big roll for a budget entry level card.

On average, decent cards are about 350-450 on the street in stores in my neighborhood, add 15% to that, and we are almost looking at a round trip ticket to somewhere hot and sunny with the woman.

I havent even begun to speak of the big boys yet... Like the gladiac 64Mb Ultra AGP DDR GeForce 2 I see here at Onvia for $816.23 before tax. If anyone does not find that offensive, I don't know what is. That card would cost me $938.66 to get into my box.--Fucking WOW or what??  Can I get a WOW?

When I finally buy a must play game that I can't grin and bear it with my current card, I'll have no choice but to bite the bullet, and go deep, but until then, no rush, card prices will eventually trickle down or be pushed down by newer hardware.  I can wait for now.


Link for the video card referenced above:
(http://www.onvia.ca/canada/products/index.cfm?Task=ViewProduct&IdCatalog=2568383)<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#19 by "legion88"
2000-12-16 03:53:32
legion88@yahoo.com
#14,
Take a look around the 3dfxgamers message board. Some are going with Nvidia, ohers act like their not going to buy any thing at all.


One guy last year proudly proclaimed that he never bought a NVIDIA product.  He was so proud of it.  That was around May or June of 1999.  Since then he "criticized" anyone who was critical of 3dfx.  This includes making up accusations.  He is the same guy just two months ago who accused me of being paid by NVIDIA.  I think it is funny if this same guy now buys a NVIDIA product for his next video card upgrade.  Nearly two years of hassling the "other side", his side lost.

In any event, I don't think the consumer-level graphics industry will change a whole lot with 3dfx out of the picture.  The newsgroups and message boards will eventually change its tune.  No doubt and that change won't come over night.  But the industry itself won't change.  3dfx was slowly disappearing from the radar screen for more than a year now.  They may have held the #1 retail title but that is a meaningless title.  The Voodoo3 and the Voodoo5 all were #1 retail but who cares.  3dfx is still going out of graphics card business.  If people actually used their brain for once and add up the total number of sales for GeForce2 products and compared it to the sales of Voodoo4/Voodoo5 products, they would know that this #1 retail card is a minority and not a big winner that the press releases wanted you to believe.  The same simple math can be applied to the Voodoo3 and TNT2 comparison as well.

The real competition comes from ATi.  And so far ATi is losing the battle for market share.  The industry landscape for 2001 will be shaped by an ATi versus NVIDIA battle, not a 3dfx versus NVIDIA battle.   After all, in 2001, ATi would be working on their second generation T&L unit while 3dfx would have been working on their first.  ATi was and still is NVIDIA's #1 competition.  This latest news seem to have opened up people's eyes to that possibility.  

In short, many people grossly overestimated 3dfx's impact on the industry.   Now I didn't expect 3dfx to go out so soon (Hercules, for instance, lasted for years) or even go out at all.  I simply did not expect them to have any real impact on the industry in 2001 since they have not delivered on a compelling product since the Voodoo2 (February 1998).  Everything they have done since then was advertise, advertise, and advertise.  They even invented a new marketing term, "texel", to make their products look faster on paper.  The rest of the work comes from their fans in newsgroup, message boards, and web sites hyping up 3dfx products, badmouthing the critics and competition, and, of course, spreading FUD (fear, uncertainly, and doubt) about the competition's products.  Just this month, one of 3dfx's employees claimed that NVIDIA's implementation of the T&L on the GeForce cards was "useless" and a "waste".  Tactics like that would only get the company so far.
#20 by "None1a"
2000-12-16 04:32:01
none1a@home.com
<b>legion88</b> (#19):
<quote>The real competition comes from ATi. And so far ATi is losing the battle for market share. The industry landscape for 2001 will be shaped by an ATi versus NVIDIA battle, not a 3dfx versus NVIDIA battle. </quote>

Consdering what Nvidia get out of this deal that's going to be one hell of a battle. As a guess in time frame by the time this is all said and done ATI will be nearly ready to release their second gen T&L engine, and Nvidia will have probably had two to three month of integrateing Gigapixel with a new T&L engine of their own (let allow t-buffer and the increse in FSAA that'd be avalible, and probably built into new drivers).

<b>legion88</b> (#19):
<quote>one of 3dfx's employees claimed that NVIDIA's implementation of the T&L on the GeForce cards was "useless" and a "waste". Tactics like that would only get the company so far.</quote>

I really can't belive any one every bought that. 3dfx had said the same things about 32-bit color  and countless other clames that never measured up (32-bit color causes a 50% performance drop, 22-bit color output at 16 looks just like 24/32, for example). I didn't really see 3dfx going out  myself as well, I'd have expected them to get bought out by on of the bigger card makers not sell to Nvidia.

<b>Kallisti</b> (#17):
<quote>dammit! now I'm <I>never</I> gonna see DX8 drivers for my 2 voodoo^2s... :(</quote>

Not like we had a chance in hell of getting them before.

<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#21 by "BloodKnight"
2000-12-16 14:35:37
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>VeeSPIKE</b> (#12):
<quote><B><U>BloodKnight</U></B>, in the delightfully enlightening post <B>#11</B>, babbled the following:

<quote>When do we see a topic on 3DFX selling themselves ?

</quote>

Soon as you post one??
</quote>

Me can't post
:(<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#22 by "BloodKnight"
2000-12-16 14:40:30
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>legion88</b> (#19):
<quote>I simply did not expect them to have any real impact on the industry in 2001 since they have not delivered on a compelling product since the Voodoo2 (February 1998). </quote>

You probably never seen a Voodoo5 in action have you?  I have a friend across the street who has 256 megs O ram, Voodoo5 and a p3 600.  High detail with all the effects on and 1024 res, runs like an eye candy or those SEGA arcades I keep seeing.  Even ALICE demo ran really good
<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#23 by "legion88"
2000-12-16 15:40:27
legion88@yahoo.com
#20,
...and Nvidia will have probably had two to three month of integrateing Gigapixel with a new T&L engine of their own (let allow t-buffer and the increse in FSAA that'd be avalible, and probably built into new drivers).
  Not going to happen.  It will take a lot longer than two/three months for NVIDIA to integrate any Gigapixel or 3dfx technology (other than T-Buffer) into their next product.  Few NV20s have already been sent out to OEMs and X-Box developers, last I heard.  T-Buffer was going to be used on NVIDA products anyway through DX8.  DX8 has T-Buffer integrated into it.  

One has to wonder what will happen to the glide API now.  Will it die for sure or will NVIDIA (and their partners) try to revive it?  Chances are NVIDIA will let it die due to its strong relationship with Microsoft.   But I won't be surprised if NVIDIA is thinking this through.  They virtually have a near monopoly on the consumer-level graphics card business unlike 3dfx.  Glide has a much better chance of reviving with NVIDIA than with 3dfx.  Funny.  Anyway, my money is on letting glide die.

If 3dfx didn't sell their business, I was thinking that fall of 2001 would be the first opportunity to see some GigaPixel technology, assuming no delays in 3dfx products and that 3dfx was going to release two product lines in 2001 (one in the Spring, one in the Fall).  But now that NVIDIA has it, I'm thinking Spring 2002 would be the earliest opportunity.

You probably never seen a Voodoo5 in action have you? I have a friend across the street who has 256 megs O ram, Voodoo5 and a p3 600. High detail with all the effects on and 1024 res, runs like an eye candy or those SEGA arcades I keep seeing. Even ALICE demo ran really good
  Those stats of yours are meaningless.  All high detail, etc, etc. runs smooth on a Radeon at 1024x768x32 as well.  If you want to compare the V5 to the V2, then that is a no-brainer.  Obviously, the V5 is much superior graphically and it is much, much better performance wise.  But it is a given that 3dfx products are being compared to what the competition has to offer at a given price range.  With that, 3dfx has not provided a compelling product since the $300 Voodoo2 in February of 1998.  And before you go screaming FSAA, FSAA on the V5 is no doubt better than FSAA on my Radeon (when it actually works).  FSAA is one feature of a long list of features found on a video card.  If one wants to buy a video card based on a single feature then go ahead.
#24 by "legion88"
2000-12-16 15:56:58
legion88@yahoo.com
#20,
I really can't belive any one every bought that...


It works.  Since it works, they will continue to do it.  That 3dfx employee I mentioned has been criticizing the competition (almost always NVIDIA) for more than a year before he was hired.  He even tried to convince people that NVIDIA's PR department tried to "strong arm" sites (including his) into becoming a fan site.  This guy is only 19 years old, no college degree of any kind, did not show any knowledge in programming but ran a popular hardware web site. In his old Savage2000 review, he got confused between texel and pixel.  After he realize his mistake (someone told him), he changed it without any word on the review that it was edited after being posted.   3dfx hired him anyway to work on the drivers (allegedly).  A rabid fan becomes an employee.  Pretty amusing.

Some of these same fans that did this kind of crap with 3dfx might as well move over to NVIDIA and do the same thing.  Look for some really off-the-wall pro-NVIDIA garbage to come out.  This was something that the NVIDIA side, for the most part, had lacking.  NVIDIA had far too few rabid fans unlike 3dfx.  They had some but not many compared to 3dfx.  3dfx's fanbase is smaller but they are far more rabid.  3dfx fans had attacked the credibility of SharkyExtreme, Tom's Hardware, FiringSquad, Anandtech, and, of course, virtually all Riva sites except for Riva3D.   So on the technology side, I see an improvement.  On the ethical side, this probably is a downturn but this depends if all those pro-hate fans that 3dfx had would move over to NVIDIA.
#25 by "Needle"
2000-12-16 16:11:11
mrklp@hotmail.com
[#11] BloodKnight,

When do we see a topic on 3DFX selling themselves ?


I submitted one shortly after the announcement was made.  It's been in the pending stories section since yesterday.  I haven't seen Andy or Morn around here for a few days so either there's no admins to validate it, or it sucked really bad. =)
#26 by "AshRain"
2000-12-16 16:29:49
ikhier@wish.net
You should have a catchy titel and some links to various infosources to get it posted. Atleast that's what I think.

I sure as hope we don't see a NVidia monopoly starting. ATI may be still strong on the low end OEM market but even there NVidia starts to enter the field. The company where I work always had ATI cards. Until just recently two new computers came in. With an NVidia(Vanta) chipset. I think that ATI will be going the same way as 3DFX if they don't improve their card/price ratio.
#27 by "None1a"
2000-12-16 17:47:46
none1a@home.com
<b>legion88</b> (#23):
<quote>It will take a lot longer than two/three months for NVIDIA to integrate any Gigapixel or 3dfx technology </quote>


I was simply saying they should have a few months of work done not the whole thing finished. I's expect that once the deal hits a point where they know it's going to happen Nvidia will start working with 3dfx technology. <i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#28 by "Ryvar"
2000-12-16 18:15:18
sonnej@rpi.edu
[15] Barneyque: your local CompUSA sells GeForce 2 MXs for $130, you can probably grab one for $100 or so online.  That's about twice the raw fillrate of your TNT2u, adds T&L and per-pixel operations.  Something to think about.  Myself, I grabbed a GeForce 2 32MB and 64MB for under $200 and $250, respectively,from ubid.com, so I'm happy.  Before you start quoting prices, though, you REALLY need to double-check pricewatch.com - your prices for a GeForce 2 and a Gladiac are way off the wall.

Do NOT go with one of the 'Ultra' cards, btw, 20% performance improvement for double the retail price?  Screw that.

[19] The NV20s should be shipping in the next month or three, but will be bloody expensive to start (is this an RDRAM thing or a lack of competition to nVidia thing?), that will be the 3rd gen T&L chip from nVidia.  Big thing this time around, though - and much bigger than T&L - are the per-pixel and per-vertex ops.  Read up on those and think 'fur' or really fast procedural textures.  If ATI's rate of driver development is anything to go by, we will NEVER see a second-generation T&L chip from them.  The Radeon is great but they just don't support their stuff once it goes out the door - they're gonna get wiped in the laptop OEM market soon by the GeForce 2 Go, methinks.  A GeForce 2 (well, underpowered one but still . . . ) vs. a Rage 128?  Even a disenfranchised 3Dfx fan couldn't help but laugh at that.

[23] You're right about Glide dying - it's been dead for a year or more now, really.  All Glide is, keep in mind, is a miniGL ICD proprietary to 3Dfx - a bad port of OpenGL.  nVidia is probably the only company that hated Glide more than MS, though, and now that that's a closed chapter, I don't think there's any reason we'll be seeing it back.  As far as FSAA goes . . . it really depends on who you talk to, I guess.  I've heard enough good things about the Radeon's FSAA to wonder, though, if that's not their singular real selling point over a GeForce 2 (besides price).

-Ryv
#29 by "Ryvar"
2000-12-16 19:01:47
sonnej@rpi.edu
Slight correction - Glide is an OpenGL miniport, an OpenGL ICD is what you download from nVidia

--Ryv
#30 by "legion88"
2000-12-16 20:40:28
legion88@yahoo.com
#28,
The NV20s should be shipping in the next month or three, but will be bloody expensive to start (is this an RDRAM thing or a lack of competition to nVidia thing?), ...


Regarding the price at the retail store, it is a combination of things.  First, it is the memory.  Who ever is making the board (be it 3dfx, Creative Labs, or ASUS) had to pay a premium for those 128-bit SDR memories or 128-bit DDR memories.  DDR memories, of course, are even more expensive.  These are not like the 64-bit memory used in system RAM.  And these video card memories are running at 166Mhz or faster, unlike the 100MHz or 133MHz 64-bit system RAM.  Memory prices is an important factor for any graphics BOARD manufacturer.  NVIDIA only makes the chips.

Second, the competition in the retail stores is another important factor and most likely the most important factor.  Voodoo5 prices are dropping, not because 3dfx is going out of business.  The prices are dropping because store owners have merchandise taking space on their store shelves during the Christmas season while another competing store has shelves full of products that people want to buy.  They are trying to get rid of their inventory while still trying to make a big profit.  Don't ever, ever underestimate the amount of money the retail stores pocket for each graphics card sold.  It is no different from games, books, or whatever.  The store takes in a big percentage.

In my area, we have no competition among retail stores that sell computer equipment.  Do you know what the result is?  The Voodoo5 is still being sold at $299.   I bought a CPU fan/heat sink for my PII 400Mhz in 1998 and it cost me more than $40, not including tax.  The same damn fan/heat sink could have cost me < $20 if I used the internet.  Since I did not want to wait weeks to get my  then-new computer up and running, I coughed up the extra $20+.  The price is really determined by the competition among retailers.

And finally, other than competition among retailers, there is also demand.  If the demand for the product is high, naturally, the retailer has no incentive to cut prices and may even increase the price.  It is not surprising to see a store actually charge more than the SRP if the local competition is not great.  

I know months ago, people were comparing the price of the GeForce2 and the Voodoo5 and tried to calculate which is more expensive to make.  That was such faulty logic but their devotion to 3dfx simply blinded them to the facts.  You can not tell which card is more expensive to make based on the retail price.  The demand for the GTS card by itelf would keep prices high while the relatively low demand for the V5 would keep prices low.
#31 by "legion88"
2000-12-16 20:44:11
legion88@yahoo.com
Strange, it looks like the board cut-off some of my message.  I don't feel like typing up the rest.  There were three points.  Two made it in my post above.  The third point is demand.  If the demand is not great, then the price would be low.  If the retail stores think that the demand would be great, then it is a no-brainer that they will charge a premium.
#32 by "Andy"
2000-12-17 00:44:32
andy@meejahor.com
<b>Ryvar</b> (#29):
<quote>
Slight correction - Glide is an OpenGL miniport
</quote>
No it isn't. :-) You're thinking of the OGL miniport used by Quake, etc, which was a subset of OGL instructions. It wasn't Glide. Glide and OGL are totally different.
#33 by "Barneyque"
2000-12-17 02:25:33
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#28</b> "Ryvar" wrote...
<quote>[15] Barneyque: your local CompUSA sells GeForce 2 MXs for $130, you can probably grab one for $100 or so online. That's about twice the raw fillrate of your TNT2u, adds T&L and per-pixel operations. Something to think about. Myself, I grabbed a GeForce 2 32MB and 64MB for under $200 and $250, respectively,from ubid.com, so I'm happy. Before you start quoting prices, though, you REALLY need to double-check pricewatch.com - your prices for a GeForce 2 and a Gladiac are way off the wall.

Do NOT go with one of the 'Ultra' cards, btw, 20% performance improvement for double the retail price? Screw that.


-Ryv</quote>

My local CompUSA eh?  Do they even have those in Canada?

Anyway's, that's just it. That is my point, the prices I quoted are most definately off the wall, that's why I quoted them.  I am talking CAN$ here.  As great as it is that you can buy things for the prices you quoted, they simply do not do me any good unless you are willing to swap me some American Dollars for Canadian ones 1 to 1.

As off the wall as my numbers are, they are the real deal, there's nothing I can do to get around that. The only wall those numbers are off, is the price tags on the stores in my area.


So, lets get down to business, how about I send you 130CAN$, and you go to your local compUSA, no, better yet, buy it online for 100, pocket the difference, and grab me one of those MX cards, and I'll pay the shipping to get it here.  Is that a deal your willing to make?  In fact, if you will do that, I'll take a case of them, and spot you an additional 10, no make it 20 bucks for every card you send. We will both make a ton of money.

If you look around, you could probably get some of our AUS friends to join in the fun too.


Are you starting to get the picture yet?  It is very painfull for many, if not most people not in the US, to buy current hardware.

By all means, do the search yourself, and find me some better prices in CAN$ to quote, and I'll take an add out in the local paper to let everyone around here know about it.

<i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#34 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-12-17 18:16:17
appliedavoidance@mindspring.com
<b><u>legion88</u></b>, in the delightfully enlightening post <b>#30</b>, babbled the following:
<quote>In my area, we have no competition among retail stores that sell computer equipment. Do you know what the result is? The Voodoo5 is still being sold at $299</quote>


You are not missing anything on the price break then. Around me we have competition out the ass (best buy, compusa, circuit city, EB, 1001 specialty computer stores) and the lowest price I could find listed for a v5 was $275.00 A friend of mine who works at best buy tells me that their margins are so tight on computers and large ticket peripherals that they cannot afford to cut prices or they lose money. He also said that he gets a better deal on his hardware buying off the shelf rather than submitting for an employee discount, for the same reason. <i><b></b></i><i></i><i></i>
#35 by "PainKilleR"
2000-12-18 18:29:24
painkiller@planetfortress.com
<b>legion88</b> (#13):
<quote>One of them just two months ago claimed that I was paid by NVIDIA for criticizing 3dfx last year. What will they do now? Will they jump ship to NVIDIA's boat and continue their unethical ways?</quote>

I hope not. Those are exactly the kind of people I hate to have on my side in an argument.
#36 by "PainKilleR"
2000-12-18 18:52:07
painkiller@planetfortress.com
<b>legion88</b> (#30):
<quote>The Voodoo5 is still being sold at $299. </quote>

3dfx.com's retail price for the V5 is $199.95, so if you can't find a better price than that, you can always look online. Unless you live somewhere really remote you're going to get a better price even with shipping. That's basically the only reason 3dfx has been selling cards at all, because they sell them so cheap (the same went with the V3 cards when they were running at $100 or so while the GeForce cards were selling at $250-300).

-PainKilleR-[CE]
#37 by "fuckrambus"
2001-03-02 16:13:15
president@rambus.com www.rambusblows.com
i will never buy rambus ram..

never will that evil enter my system.

i will not buy any product w/ ties to rambus.

i will fight to the last man, w/ some good old pc133 mhz in my hands w/ the rambus nazi's come kicking in my door.
.............................

and wtf is up w/ the fancy name pc2100 wtf is that shit.....why not say how fast it is.. like the number 2*** impresses me at all.

fuck you rambus..
hope you stockholders go to hell.

thanks,
president of rambus.
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: RAMbus on a RAMpage

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
P O S T   A   C O M M E N T

You need to be logged in to post a comment here. If you don't have an account yet, you can create one here. Registration is free.
C R A P T A G S
Simple formatting: [b]bold[/b], [i]italic[/i], [u]underline[/u]
Web Links: [url=www.mans.de]Cool Site[/url], [url]www.mans.de[/url]
Email Links: [email=some@email.com]Email me[/email], [email]some@email.com[/email]
Simple formatting: Quoted text: [quote]Yadda yadda[/quote]
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
There are currently 0 people browsing this site. [Details]