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T O P I C
LithTech, NOLF, And Penis Envy
November 10th 2000, 17:34 CET by jeet

I've never written a single piece about Monolith or Jason Hall - but that's about to change. Clickity-clack and find out more!

I picked up a copy of No One Lives Forever (NOLF) last night, after reading many glowing reviews about it. After playing the game for several hours, I can't help but wonder how it is that people supposedly love this game so much.

I'm not saying that NOLF is a bad game, just that it isn't a great game. It's passable, and that's about it - a bit like choosing Gore or Bush for president. Neither candidate is neccessarily bad, per sey, but I don't really want to be stuck with either one for the next four years. Leaving NOLF aside for the moment, and using the same analogy, I don't really want to be stuck with LithTech again. Ever.

I feel bad about not liking the engine. I honestly do. However, it just feels third rate. You all know what I'm talking about here - the feel of a 3d engine. Quake III feels a certain way when you play it. Unreal Tournament feels a different way. The only thing is, both of these engines feel top shelf while LithTech is more like the plastic bottle of Tequila, made in Wisconsin, sitting on the bottom shelf of Jimmy's Two Dollah Liquor Store. It's choppy, the graphical rewards are slim, and it just has an air of non-quality to it.

I'm not saying that the engine is all bad, though. The flashlights and searchlights are pretty neat, what with having an actual beam and all. But the character models are pathetic, the textures are even worse, and the overall architectural elements are laughable. I realize that a lot of this has to do with the game's artists and level designers - but I would hope that Monolith itself would be the best company to most effectively capitalize on its own engine. Why showcase LithTech 2.blah with sub-standard elements? Why? Maybe it's because the sub-standard bits are the high-end of the engine.

As for the game itself, it's not terrible. The gameplay feels a little awkward at times, but overall it's an entertaining shooter. Another entertaining shooter. That's about all it is. It's being compared to Half Life, but please believe me - it comes nowhere close.

I wanted to like this game a lot. I've been craving a new good shooter in that grand Half Life style - but NOLF just ain't it.

As for LithTech....more windbag hype with all the supportable substance of rice paper, I have never seen. Jason Hall says that the Unreal engine has "seriously fallen below my radar from a competitive standpoint..." Well Jason, methinks mayhap you should consider looking at quality - and finding out what it is - before you attempt to better it. It's funny that neither id nor Epic seem to tout their engines with as much fervor as Monolith. It makes one wonder, doesn't it? But then again bluffing, oddly enough, usually works. Telling people how what you got it so big is one thing, and it's something most people will just go ahead and believe. Well, except for when you hit the showers. Try actually doing what you say you've done, though, and people tend to react to quality.

The LithTech engine has its place, though. It's not like it's a complete waste of code. Like I said - it's passable. I just don't think many Deer Hunter games are going 3-D this year, which is a shame. Match made in Heaven, anyone?

Uncle Still Playing Half Life... Jeet
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: LithTech, NOLF, And Penis Envy

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#1 by "Lumberjack"
2000-11-10 17:36:28
joek@pckconsult.com
first?
#2 by "Lumberjack"
2000-11-10 17:36:38
joek@pckconsult.com
yay!!!!!
#3 by "Reb Pizer"
2000-11-10 17:40:14
reb@entdepot.com http://www.entdepot.com
I thought the character models were pretty good.  Cartoony, for sure, but that's the idea, I think.

Lighting effects are cool, too.
#4 by "cliffe"
2000-11-10 17:42:49
cliffe@counter-strike.net http://www.counter-strike.net/
Wow, get a load of this Hall interivew on VE:
-----------
VoodooExtreme -- Without getting into a spitting match with Epic, why do you feel the LithTech engine is more powerful/more robust than the Unreal engine?

To be honest, I don't really think much about the Unreal engine or Epic anymore. They have seriously fallen below my radar from a competitive standpoint for many reasons but the leading reason is simply that most of the new prospective licensees I have been encountering and working with this year don't seem to be even considering the Unreal technology as a viable option for their project. There are a few developers that pop up every now and then who appear to be looking at it, but as far as I can tell, interest in it has dropped off dramatically, and LithTech's philosophy of trying to give the best support possible and continuing to try to improve the support as well as the technology has given LithTech a superior competitive edge.

It is not genius by any stretch of the imagination, but it is all about business focus. LithTech is focused on making the best engine technology it can, and servicing its licensees. That's LithTech's business!

I think that Epic may recognize this as they are now trying to hire a specific support person for licensees (a change in support philosophy all of a sudden?), but it may be too little to late. Who knows. I certainly wish them the best, as there is plenty of room in the market for us both.  I'm sure they'll occasionally get a licensee here and there - and from what they say, that's all they want. So good for them!

-----------


I just love how he says "To be honest, I don't really think much about the Unreal engine or Epic anymore" and then proceeds to trash the UT engine and glorify Lith AGAIN.

I'm sorry to say, buth Lithtech as an engine looks totally dated and utter crap when compared to the UT engine. Just my opinion of course.

cliffe
#5 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-11-10 18:08:18
sbauman@cdmag.com http://www.cdmag.com
Yeah, after several hours of play I usually write up my reviews.

Oh wait, I finish a game before passing judgement.

In all seriousness, the game is entertaining at the start, then starts to take some detours that you didn't quite expect. There's lots of new stuff to do; it's really quite varied. Some stealth, some straigh action, some adventuring, some exploration... and it all manages to hold together.

Keep playing.
#6 by "Skull"
2000-11-10 18:13:13
Wow, guess that "Jeet" doesn't get the same daily blowjob that Billy Wilson gets
#7 by "Reb Pizer"
2000-11-10 18:31:10
reb@entdepot.com http://www.entdepot.com
I haven't gotten that far into NOLF, only about halfway through the East Berlin, but I can't think of any pure FPS (meaning not Thief 2 or Deus Ex) off the top of my head since Half-Life that has had such intriguing story and gameplay.

L33t Force wasn't bad (still too short, dammit, whatever Hoekstra says) story wise, but its gameplay was all run-and-gun for the most part. That's the only game that's come as close, in my book.

Come to think of it, though, I think it's kind of stupid to keep holding every first-person game that comes out up to Half-Life.  I love HL, and all of its iterations, but by constantly trying to make that comparison, it makes it tough to look at a game based on its own merits.

I suppose it's a tough comparison to avoid, though.
#8 by "Uncle Jeet"
2000-11-10 18:55:41
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Steve -
  Sorry, chief - but I wasn't writing a review up there.  I hardly touched on NOLF itself, in fact.  So keep your rightousness to yourself, or at least display it only when warrented.  Thanks a bunch!  In all seriousness, though, I agree - a review should never be written unless the game has been completed.  I don't write reviews, though - never have.  I don't have to eat a whole piece of meat to know whether or not I'm going to enjoy it.  A few bites usually lets you know what you're in for - and that's all I was saying about NOLF.

Reb -
  I agree with you.  It is silly to hold up Game A to Game B all the time.  However, I used Half Life because all of the glowing reviews of NOLF that I've read unanimously agree that NOLF is the next best thing since Half Life.  I just can't agree with that statement at all.  It's not a terrible game, but it's nothing special by any stretch.
#9 by "Uncle Jeet"
2000-11-10 18:57:43
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
*Jeet goes back to school to learn to spell warranted.

<b>Uncle</b> <i>You Want Fries With That?</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#10 by "DanM"
2000-11-10 20:16:02
I think the hype you are seeing on NOLF is just due to the fact that there are no real "quality" single play FPS games coming down the pike. Wow Xmas with nothing from Id, Epic or Valve. LGS is DOA....ho..ho..humbug
#11 by "Jason Hall"
2000-11-10 20:29:39
Hall@lith.com http://www.lith.com
People, please listen here.

You guys are way over reacting...

First off Billy Wilson solicited this interview (which was actually a while ago) and specifically asked me "Why I feel the LithTech engine is more powerful/more robust than the Unreal engine..."

How do you expect me to answer that question? All I can do is provide information on what the licensing experience has been.

I didn't say anything bad about Unreal. I didn't attack anyone. I just simply stated that I don't really think much about the Unreal engine or Epic anymore. They have seriously fallen below my radar from a competitive standpoint for many reasons but the leading reason is simply that most of the new prospective licensees I have been encountering and working with this year don't seem to be even considering the Unreal technology as a viable option for their project.

This is completely accurate. No one is getting slammed. Calm down. Believe me, I run into things like RenderWare and NDL far more often than Unreal.

I'm sure Unreal will get a license here and there. Good for them. No worries!

-Jace
#12 by "balddude"
2000-11-10 20:44:42
I've tried the technology demo of NOLF, but I still find that the "feel" of the game is much the same as Shogo's. I can't stand imprecise controls. The wee girl in NOLF lumbers like a 260 lb lumberjack. If this is by design, then I say, change the frikkin design. Precise, tunable controls like those found in the UT engine have got it all over Lithtech.

I also found the Tech Demo to have a tremendously boring flat look to it. I'll concede my colour blindness might be a factor in this, though I have no problem with games like Unreal or Half life. The game looks totally flat, which is certainly an issue if you play it for any length of time (at least for me).

The stuff I've read goes on about the "new" Lithtech engine. Doesn't seem to new to me at all, just the same old wash relaundered.

The game itself (as far as content goes) seems to be fun. Obviously only got to try a bit of it out, but I would play this start to finish despite the mushy feel if the price for it was right. That being said this will likely sell for around the $60 Can ($2.50 US... basterds!!) so I wouldn't fork the cash over for it (and no, I don't pirate).
#13 by "Reb Pizer"
2000-11-10 20:49:02
reb@entdepot.com http://www.entdepot.com
I totally agree about the controls.  It's very tough trying to make precise jumps.  It feels  too "blocky," if that makes any sense?
#14 by "Uncle Jeet"
2000-11-10 20:57:15
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Jason -
  Well, I'm sure you've heard this before, but - it isn't always what you say, but how you say it.  You may not consider the Unreal engine worth anything, and you may not hear it come up much in negotiations.  However, this does not mean that no one considers the engine superior to LithTech for their needs - those people just don't come to you.  All of that aside, though, I think the point here is this:  LithTech ain't a bad engine, but it's not a great engine.  I look at it more as the Kia of engines.  Yeah, it's not very flashy, and yeah, it isn't that powerful, and yeah, it isn't the most reliable - but it doesn't cost that much and it gets you from point a to point b.
  LithTech is a solid engine for developers on a tight leash budget, is what it feels like.  (Notice I didn't say that is how it actually is, as I don't know how much any given engine is licensing for right now.)
  If LithTech was billed as a good engine to choose because it 'can do most everything you want it to do, and we provide excellent support' then I would agree with that.  However, saying repeatedly that LithTech is actually superior to other engines is a bit narrow minded and comes across as blatent arrogance.
  Every parent thinks that his or her child is special and adorable - but there are a lot of stupid and ugly babies out there, all the same.
  This wasn't an attack monolith/jason hall thread.  I'm just trying to convey my impressions of LithTech and, on a smaller scale, NOLF itself.  If you would like, please point out in <b>specific</b> detail what makes LithTech actually <b>superior</b> to <i>both</i> the Unreal and Quake III engines.  Throw me the facts, and I'll recant where needed.

<b>Uncle</b> <i>Just the facts, ma'm...</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#15 by "JMCDaveL"
2000-11-10 21:01:52
jmcdavel@mailandnews.com
/derail

Someone make Rocket Jockey 2 dammit!

--jmc
#16 by "Jason Hall"
2000-11-10 21:03:47
Hall@lith.com http://www.lith.com
Jeet wrote - "saying repeatedly that LithTech is actually superior to other engines ..."

Where do I say this? What are you talking about?

Jace
#17 by "Jason Hall"
2000-11-10 21:05:11
Hall@lith.com http://www.lith.com
Jeet - whether an engine is "great" for you or not is variant depending on your needs.

Jace
#18 by "Mr_Shush"
2000-11-10 21:06:49
<b>#11</b> "Jason Hall" wrote...
<QUOTE>This is completely accurate. No one is getting slammed. Calm down. Believe me, I run into things like RenderWare and NDL far more often than Unreal.</QUOTE>

Sounds like you need to up the class of your prospective licensees…<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#19 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-11-10 21:10:04
sbauman@cdmag.com http://www.cdmag.com
<quote>Sorry, chief - but I wasn't writing a review up there. I hardly touched on NOLF itself, in fact. </quote>
Oh, I know, but "After playing the game for several hours, I can't help but wonder how it is that people supposedly love this game so much" is questioning the evaluative skills of people that have experienced more of the game than you have. You then call it merely "passable."

<quote>I don't have to eat a whole piece of meat to know whether or not I'm going to enjoy it. </quote>
No, but you might want to eat the side dishes before you decide whether or not you're getting a good meal for your dollar.
#20 by "El Asso Wipo!"
2000-11-10 21:12:12
The_Nick_Burns@hotmail.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#Main Post</b> "jeet" wrote...
<QUOTE>But then again bluffing, oddly enough, usually works. Telling people how what you got it so big is one thing, and it's something most people will just go ahead and believe. Well, except for when you hit the showers. Try actually doing what you say you've done, though, and people tend to react to quality.</QUOTE>

"The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of the nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to the big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell a big one."  

Adolph Hitler - Mein Kampf<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#21 by "Speed"
2000-11-10 21:19:51
speed@pandora.be http://fragland.net
Jason : you didn't EXACTLY state that you find Lithtech to be superior to Unreal or Q3A engine, but the way your sentence goes, it could be misinterpreted that you ARE saying Lithtech is superior.

Speed
Fragland.net
#22 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-11-10 21:27:38
sbauman@cdmag.com http://www.cdmag.com
<quote>But the character models are pathetic, the textures are even worse, and the overall architectural elements are laughable. </quote>
Really? I was thinking the models and particularly their texturing was fantastic, certainly better than some of the in-game objects (like cars and such). The main character looks great in the in-engine cut scenes, and I think the various people look perfectly... kitschy, just like the game's setting. I don't mean they're bad kitschy, but your bosses that give you the missions... the fat guy looks exactly like some stodgy desk jockey, and your mentor... his eyes were creepy weird (especially when he blinked). I think they're considerably better than those in Quake III or Unreal Tournament. Maybe they have fewer polygons or lower rez textures, but they have more... personality.

As I said in another thread, this game does as good a job as any in recent memory of staying consistent with its setting. It's not the hodgepodge of aesthetics most 3D shooters present, but a unified whole. Every object looks... wonderfull retro.

But I could care less about engines.
#23 by "warmonger"
2000-11-10 22:43:47
warmonger87@hotmail.com
I believe what Jason is saying here is that, as far as licensing the engine and using it to put together a game, Lithtech is simply a much more viable choice than Unreal tech is for the majority of developers. Now, the graphical quality of Unreal tech might be better, but as far as competition to Lithtech, Inc. Unreal tech is not a direct competitor.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#24 by "Apache"
2000-11-10 23:09:55
apache@stomped.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
jeet wrote: <quote>I picked up a copy of No One Lives Forever (NOLF) last night, after reading many glowing reviews about it. After playing the game for several hours, I can't help but wonder how it is that people supposedly love this game so much.</quote>

Out of curiosity, what first person shooters do you consider great?
#25 by "Uncle Jeet"
2000-11-10 23:12:58
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Jason -
  Saying that "They have seriously fallen below my radar from a competitive standpoint" is effectively saying that their product is inferior to yours.  If, in your opinion, the Unreal engine is not in competition with LithTech - then you're saying that LithTech is, in some regard, superior.  If you aren't saying that, then what you're saying doesn't make much sense!  :)
  Now, if people that license Unreal want graphical splendor and whatnot, but people that license LithTech want better support and whatever else LithTech brings - then that's perfectly understandable.  It all comes down to phrasing, and what information you include in what you say.
  To clear all this up, do you think you could explain exactly why Unreal has fallen below that competitive radar?  You probably have perfectly viable and realistic reasons for saying this, but they just haven't come across yet.

<b>Uncle</b> <i>Shake my groove thang...</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#26 by "Apache"
2000-11-10 23:20:54
apache@stomped.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
jeet -- feel free to credit your sources, too :)
#27 by "Uncle Jeet"
2000-11-10 23:23:38
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Apache -
  Well, the obvious spring to mind.  Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Unreal, Half Life.  Each of these were stepstone shooters - each bringing significant new elements to the genre.  (Or, in the case of Wolfenstein, effectively creating it.)
  Wolf may not be that much fun to go back and play today, but it was fantastic in its heyday.
  Then there are the hybrids....Thief, Deus Ex, etc...(though I appreciate Deus Ex from a game and story standpoint, the d3d code is still not up to snuff....stupid Unreal engine!)  :)
  As for other shooters, I enjoyed Requiem an awful lot.  It didn't get much press, but it was interesting to play the whole avenging angel role.  I also - shudder - enjoyed Shogo, and a good bit of Blood 2.  (Not all of B2, but some of it.)  I always thought that LithTech held a lot of potential, but it just doesn't seem to grow well.
  Here's a good example.  Back in the day, you had two major competitors for graphic adventures: Sierra and Lucasarts.  Sierra began to decline when their games began to consistently look and feel the same, while Lucasarts's titles pushed tech a bit more with each new game.  This is how LithTech feels to me.  NOLF feels like Blood 2, which in turn feels like Shogo.  There just seems to have been very little improvement to the <i>feel</i> of the engine.  Polygon counts have improved slightly, but I wager you could take a screenshot from NOLF and a screenshot from Blood 2 and show them to someone that didn't know the games, and they would not be able to tell you if they came from different games.
  That being said, let me get off of LithTech for a minute to address NOLF itself.  It's fun, in places, but overall the controls feel mushy and this affects everything.  Unreal's weapons felt underpowered, and Epic improved them by adding better sounds, response times, and changing the models, along with other tweeks.  NOLF's weapons feel delayed and mushy and underpowered and, well, boring and reminiscent of Shogo.  There are neat things that happen, such as bad guys tumbling down inclines and stairs when they get shot, but all these types of things are secondary to how the game plays.  The story is interesting and funny, the voice acting is, for the most part, very well done.  However, the way the actual gameplay feels is just, well, lacking.
  I've disagreed severely with reviewers before, though.  While everyone was suckling the Crimson Skies love stump, I was scratching my head in vast confusion.  The game was an ok distraction, but that's about all I could consider it to be.

<b>Uncle</b> <i>Damn, I'm Long Winded...</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#28 by "Uncle Jeet"
2000-11-10 23:24:40
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Apache -
  If you want journalism, pick up a newspaper!  :)

<b>Uncle</b> <i>Deep Throat</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#29 by "Apache"
2000-11-10 23:27:25
apache@stomped.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
haha it's that im trying to monger hits, it would just make a little more sense in the topic :)
#30 by "Uncle Jeet"
2000-11-10 23:37:28
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Apache -
  There, happy now?  heh :)  Sorry about that.

<b>Uncle</b> <i>Sit On My Magic Lap</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#31 by "MCorleone"
2000-11-10 23:45:49
kurin6@home.com
Before I read any of the thread, I just want to say THANK YOU UNCLE JEET for putting to words what I've felt about lithtech from Day1, and confirmed with KISS.  Lithtech just feels dirty...  I can't put my finger on it, but it looks like "Jimmy's CompSci Thesis Engine"...  The controls aren't as polished and don't give you that "reliable" feeling that Unreal and Id engines do.

Alright, reading on...
#32 by "Apache"
2000-11-10 23:45:55
apache@stomped.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
:)

be back later...
#33 by "Uncle Jeet"
2000-11-10 23:51:45
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
MCorleone -
  I complete forgot about KISS.  I actually enjoyed Kiss, somewhat.  It got pretty tedious, but it was an alright game.  Nothing special, though.  I didn't even finish it.  By the time I got to the last section, I had lost all interest.  I think I only picked it up for lack of any other decent shooter to play at the time.  Kinda why I picked up NOLF....with kinda the same results, though NOLF is a bit more fun.  But not by much.  :(

<b>Uncle</b> <i>God Gave Uncle Jeet To You...</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#34 by "Terata"
2000-11-11 00:02:42
jstatz@ravensoft.com
Shogo was a very good game in my opinion.  Had that great doom feeling of spreading destruction in my wake, and kept me interested throughout.  I actually finished it, anyway, which is immensely rare for me.  Even rarer, I reinstalled it and played it partway through again a couple months ago.

I would've liked Kiss quite a bit, I suspect, if it'd had solid sounds.  Everything just sounded wimpy and lacking power...  I'm not playing a run and gun shooter so that I can feel wimpy.  Give me loud guns and hoards of things that die spectacularly please.  =P

Haven't played NOLF yet, the tech demo was nifty in a few places and I liked the humor.  We'll see.
#35 by "MCorleone"
2000-11-11 00:05:44
kurin6@home.com
Done.  Personally, I think Mr. Sweeney said it best with these choice clips, also from an interview with VE:

"Don't measure success by "number of press releases issued per month". PR is not a measure of success. Good measures of success are factors like the number of cool games shipped using the engine; revenue; and customer satisfaction. And by that measure I'd actually say id Software is still #1 in engine licensing, and Epic #2."

So true.  KISS, that Ice-T game, and NOLF will not be remembered.  They're clones.  Hmm, let's ride the Austin Powers wave of 60's nostalgia & Bond movies, throw in some Avengers and voila!  
Put it in the Lithtech engine?  What's that saying about "You can polish a turd..."

Another great quote from the Tim-man, in reference to the 100+ people working on Lithtech:

"But I'm not afraid of any 100 developers. 1-3 great chefs gives you a great restaurant. 100 chefs gives you McDonalds"

Now THAT, is politically correct mudslinging.  Hell, it just happens to apply, too :)
#36 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-11-11 00:06:17
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>Jason Hall</b> (#11):
<QUOTE>People, please listen here. </QUOTE>
Heh.  Is this the same message you're pasting into every forum?  I saw this exact same comment in the Evil Avatar thread.  :P

Automated damage control.  Heh.

--

Warren Marshall - Professional Nuisance<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#37 by "George Broussard"
2000-11-11 01:05:48
georgeb@3drealms.com
Not sure how you can't like NOLF unless:

1) You don't like the art-style or...
2) Don't like the 60's style spy theme.

Cause if you are ok with the two above, the game rocks ass.  It's fun, and varies gameplay quite a bit.

As to the engine wars...who cares?

You can compare on a number of points:

- How many license announcements has engine X made in the last 6 months (this is more important as time goes by, yes?)

- How many games have shipped with engine X.  (Indicates ease of use etc)

- How well did they sell? (LithTech is still missing it's killer app, but it's not due to the engine I don't think).  After we licensed Build to some really crappy games before we made Duke Nukem 3D.  Quake didn't have it's killer license until Half-Life (Sin, Hexen 2 etc).

I can tell you guys now that of the three major engines out there, ANY one of them would do you good.  They are all close enough and I think a killer team could take any of the three and make a million selling game.
#38 by "The Relentless"
2000-11-11 01:05:50
relentless@gamedesign.net http://www.gamedesign.net
<b>#35</b> "MCorleone" wrote...
<QUOTE>
"But I'm not afraid of any 100 developers. 1-3 great chefs gives you a great restaurant. 100 chefs gives you McDonalds"

</QUOTE>

Damn that's funny.  And I just realized.  I have never ever ever played a Lithtech engined game.  But I do have Unreal, UT, Deus Ex, and Wheel of Time.

Hmmmmmmm..........<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#39 by "The Joker"
2000-11-11 01:12:39
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
When I saw the Unreal terrain stuff it wasn't half as impressive as LithTech 2.x terrain stuff. And the graphics looked dumb, and I am referring to the screens VE posted. LT2 looks so much better compared to that.

Joker.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#40 by "Apache"
2000-11-11 01:49:18
apache@stomped.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
well, even <A HREF="http://www.zdnet.com/gamespot/stories/reviews/0,10867,2652466,00.html">Erik liked it</a>.

that says a lot to me :)
#41 by "DanM"
2000-11-11 02:05:53
Furthering the food analogy. NOLF is
a sampling of great ideas from some
of the best FPS's in the past couple
years. Just like food, take four or 5
great dishes and mix it all together
with no coherence and you get "mush"
#42 by ""
2000-11-11 02:40:25
i got suckered in to buying this piece of crap too. after cw from 3drealms said it was good i bought it. it is going back to the store very soon. it is complete crap. its worse than gaykatana.
#43 by ""
2000-11-11 02:44:40
i forgot to say jason hall is an idiot.
#44 by ""
2000-11-11 02:46:10
i also forgot that quake 3 has that "feel" that is unlike any other engine except other id engines. it is the right feel. unreal feels and looks like crap just like lithtech.
#45 by ""
2000-11-11 02:47:49
#37 untill you switch dnf to the quake3 engine your opinions mean nothing. anyone who uses the unreal engine is an idiot.
#46 by ""
2000-11-11 02:49:00
also the netcode feels just like shogo. that means its laggy but weapon firing is completely client side. im sure as soon as the source is released there will be countless cheats.
#47 by "The Joker"
2000-11-11 03:08:05
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
Hi barcode :)

Joker.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "George Broussard"
2000-11-11 03:39:02
georgeb@3drealms.com
Socrates,

<quote>#37 untill you switch dnf to the quake3 engine your opinions mean nothing. anyone who uses the unreal engine is an idiot. </quote>

Had you pegged as a Quake 3 fanboy as soon as you said NOLF sucked.
#49 by ""
2000-11-11 04:05:34
#48

me being a john carmack worshipping quake3/id fanboy is beside the point! the quake3 engine is superior to the 3dfx only unreal engine and dnf deserves a good engine. i think you should take my advice and delay dnf another 5 years and switch to q3 or the new doom engine.
#50 by "mcgrew"
2000-11-11 04:08:06
@famvid.com http://theFragfest.com
On the other machine, if anybody wants to email me just add the name to the email, I'mg etting way too much spam... I should have put hulka's url up instead of my own because he has some FUNNY election shit over there and tomorrow's nooze is just pimping hulka's page anyway

This won't be a "longassed mcgrew post" because since the Libertarian lost (I want a recount, dammit) I'm trying to download as many Frank Zappa MP3s, porn, and marijuana growing guides as I can before Gore gets in and outlaws videogames or bush gets in and outlaws algore's internet thingie.

Also the only lith game I think I've even demoed is the Kiss Psycho game and I couldn't even get out of the first room.

Oh, and I only read the first half dozen posts so far, and every one of them except maybe jason's reads like they either didn't read jeet's intro or read it but wanted to talk about something else... he talks engine and everybody talks models and shit, sheesh

So actually I only wanted to thank jeet for posting a new topic and beg morn to PLEASE give us the old pc back; v1, 2, or 3 would be nice. If this hippie shit stays much longer I'm going to actually have to download one of those growing guides for real, or study my wife's chemistry book and figure out how to cook up some LSD (she's in nursing school)

One of these days jason's people are going to make a game I love.

Jace, hope the arm's better... unless I see you in a bar and piss you off (in which case I'll hope you have a sore leg)

peace... thanks for the chuckles guys, I'll be back

-steve
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Home » Topic: LithTech, NOLF, And Penis Envy

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