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PS2...What The?!
November 7th 2000, 18:06 CET by jeet

This will be a short and sweet little bit about Sony's baby, the Playstation 2. Click on, if you even care.

Am I the only person on this planet that is severely unimpressed with the PS2? I've yet to see a game played on the system that looked like anything worthy of my money. Maybe it's just a case of poor launch titles, or maybe I've just been spoiled by my Dreamcast.

Yes, the Dreamcast hardware is inferior to the PS2 hardware. But, I'm wondering, why is it that many Dreamcast games look so much sweeter than the initial offerings for the PS2?

I know, I know. First generation titles tend to not exploit the full potential of any system. Yet, with all the bruhahah over the PS2's technological might - I would think at least one title would be able to shine with enough glory to eclipse something like Shenmue or even the DC launch title, Soul Calibur.

Don't get me wrong. I plan on buying a PS2 eventually - if the titles start improving. As it stands now, though, I just don't get it.

I love Sony as much as the next guy, and I was never a fan of Sega, but I just can't jump on the glorytrain and sing the praises of a system that just doesn't seem to be nearly what it was cracked up to be.

I wonder what the greater average is for the use of a PS2: time spent playing Tekken Tag or time spent watching porn DVD's. You decide.

Uncle Maybe the X-Box will rock Jeet
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#1 by "12xu"
2000-11-07 18:10:54
mswitzer@insync.net http://http;//www.hichouston.org
SSX snowboarding is pretty awesome...

that's about all I know abot the PS2...

12xu
out<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "Whisp"
2000-11-07 18:22:36
whisp_@hotmail.com
It's beginning to look like the time spent waiting for my pre-ordered PS2 might be a good thing.  Hopefully there'll be a better selection of titles out whenever that is.  I really hope it shows up before xmas though.  However it works out, I think I'll be satisfied with it though.  I never had a PSX, so I can play all the cool games for that system now, even if nothing comes out for the PS2 I like.  Also, I don't have a DVD player, and probably wouldn't buy one at all, if not for the PS2.  

-Whisp
#3 by "Milamber"
2000-11-07 18:28:37
milamber@amoeba.com.au http://www.wagz.net
Morn, for the <b>love of god</b> please change the colours back. I'm starting to see afterimages whereever I go.
#4 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-11-07 18:29:40
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>jeet</b> (#Main Post):
<QUOTE>Am I the only person on this planet that is severely unimpressed with the PS2? I've yet to see a game played on the system that looked like anything worthy of my money. </QUOTE>
You apparently haven't seen SSX yet.  That rocks HARD!  :)

--

Warren Marshall - Professional Nuisance<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#5 by "Apache"
2000-11-07 18:43:25
apache@stomped.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
jeet wrote:
<quote>Am I the only person on this planet that is severely unimpressed with the PS2?</quote>

You are not alone. When the PS2 first came out in Japan we got one and loaded up Ridge Racer Five. It looked nice, but the lack of anti-aliasing really sucked...

I don't see the PS2 as the next big thing in gaming, just a natural upgrade.
#6 by "Chango"
2000-11-07 19:03:39
papa_chango@hotmail.com http://www.bionicgranny.com (coming soon)
Quoth Whisp:

<i>"Also, I don't have a DVD player, and probably wouldn't buy one at all, if not for the PS2."</i>


Hmmm...

Interesting that The PS2 is being bought purely on the original's rep, and the hoopla-frenzy whipped up by Sony's mediamongers.

"This is the best thing ever... think of a number that's really big, ok - now times it by a million and that's how many poly's we'll say it can push around at once..."

The total arse-chunder that was Sony's PS2 marketing campaign, I believe, was solely to place that annoying, retro-spaceage, neon eye-fuck of a box in people's homes under thier TV sets.  

So, come boxing day, when little timmy has clocked Tekken Tag for the 19th time in 24hrs, he's going to get bored with it, realizing that it's just Tekken 3 with some more lippy on, and he's going to look for some other entertainment.  I wonder where that'll come from?

Oh, hey!  That's right!  This eyeball-sodomizing blue affrontage to the rest of the living room also happens to play DVD's.  Well, now, shit bricks and call be beatrice.


fuck the games, Sony doesn't gove a rat's ass what interactive bilge it publishes (a reason why the only in-house title at launch is that goofy-assed fireworks wank).

Dinner time

Peace

ATARI LYNX RO
#7 by "None-1a"
2000-11-07 19:30:53
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#6</b> "Chango" wrote...
<QUOTE>The total arse-chunder that was Sony's PS2 marketing campaign, I believe, was solely to place that annoying, retro-spaceage, neon eye-fuck of a box in people's homes under thier TV sets. </QUOTE>

I don't remember seeing a single AD untill after the thing sold out. The two non video games mags I've seen that have been saturated by PS2 ads where this months Penthouse and Playboy (um, I read the articles ;).

Most of the media hype didn't come from Sony, it came from the mags and web sites (crist yet another 10 reasons the PS2 is going to rock article).  
--
None-1a.

O forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#8 by "Reb Pizer"
2000-11-07 19:33:26
reb@entdepot.com http://www.entdepot.com
I've got another question about the PS2.  It's got an anti-aliasing "switch" in the driver software, right?  Why would they not just have it turned on all the time?  AA slowdown shouldn't be an issue for such powerful hardware, right? Seems a little fishy.

Reb
#9 by "Chris Johnson"
2000-11-07 19:36:15
<quote>Am I the only person on this planet that is severely unimpressed with the PS2? I've yet to see a game played on the system that looked like anything worthy of my money. Maybe it's just a case of poor launch titles, or maybe I've just been spoiled by my Dreamcast.

Yes, the Dreamcast hardware is inferior to the PS2 hardware. But, I'm wondering, why is it that many Dreamcast games look so much sweeter than the initial offerings for the PS2?</quote>

Couple of things here:

As you pointed out the PS2 is working on first-gen launch titles, and are more than likely just a bit rushed.  You taken a look at Kessen, Madden 2001, DOA2 Hardcore, Metal Gear Solid 2, Dark Cloud, Wipeout Fusion, Onimusha, The Bouncer, or any of the other games in production or just about to come out (as some are already out in Japan)?  

Let's face it, launch titles by and large are sub standard for ANY system.  "But what about Soul Calibur?" you ask.  Well, a direct port of an arcade game from the Naomi architecture to a console based on the Naomi architecture wouldn't exactly be that hard to pull off in time for the super-app launch title.

As for Shenmue, as long as it's been in production, I hope it does look great, and I look forward to playing it.  But seeing how we've been hearing about it since before the launch of the Dremcast, it's hardly anyting bordering on a good comparison, is it?

<quote>You are not alone. When the PS2 first came out in Japan we got one and loaded up Ridge Racer Five. It looked nice, but the lack of anti-aliasing really sucked... </quote>

The common misconception is that there isn't any anti-aliasing on the PS2.  That's a complete falsehood brought about by people who look at a couple of games without it, and then swear there isn't any on the entire system.

<quote>Blah, blah, blah.... Oh, hey! That's right! This eyeball-sodomizing blue affrontage to the rest of the living room also happens to play DVD's. Well, now, shit bricks and call be beatrice. </quote>

Whoa.  Bitter much?

I'm not going o get on a huge console vs console vs PC evangelical rant here;  I'm not big on them, and really am not so completely interested in the whole debate as to choose sides.  But I do think that any discussion like this needs to have some perspective as well...
#10 by "Blood"
2000-11-07 19:42:58
blood@gamescon.com
I'm with None1a...I haven't seen a single ad for the PS2...hell, there's still plenty of ads for PS1 games on TV, but none for PS2?  Huh?
#11 by "mother"
2000-11-07 19:43:56
mother@_HI_MOM_codenet.net
<b>#6</b> Country and Western Recording Star "Chango" wrote...
<QUOTE>

that annoying, retro-spaceage, neon eye-fuck of a box in people's homes under thier TV sets...This eyeball-sodomizing blue affrontage to the rest of the living room</QUOTE>

If this is how you describe the design of the PS2 unit, I would hate to see the decor of your living room.

Mother<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#12 by "Reb Pizer"
2000-11-07 19:52:00
reb@entdepot.com http://www.entdepot.com
They showed an ad for the PS2 on tv this week (during Malcolm in the Middle, I think, or maybe X-Files).  It started off as an ad for the PS9 with adrenal gland input and broke into a montage of far-out futuristic game tech.  Then they cut to a shot of the PS2 and flashed the words, "The Beginning"

That's the only one I've seen though, and just that one time.
#13 by "szcx"
2000-11-07 20:02:36
leslie.nassar@planetszcx.com
*drool* wipeout fusion...
#14 by "None-1a"
2000-11-07 20:05:10
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#8</b> "Reb Pizer" wrote...
<QUOTE>I've got another question about the PS2. It's got an anti-aliasing "switch" in the driver software, right? Why would they not just have it turned on all the time? AA slowdown shouldn't be an issue for such powerful hardware, right? Seems a little fishy.
</QUOTE>

Simple it doesn't have a "switch". PS1 games have the switch that basicly turns on more advanced mip maping. According to the interviews with Sony there are four ways to do AA with the PS2, one you can use after the games has been programed the others must be done early on. The one meathod that does work after the games done isn't that great (think of it as FSAA 1x on a Voodoo5). You've also got to remember that most PS2 games are running at half the vertical resolution that they could be running at simply to keep the game as 60fps (not that all the games need to run a 60fps), this makes it much worse then it could be if they'd run at 30fps and full size.

<b>#12</b> "Reb Pizer" wrote...
<QUOTE>They showed an ad for the PS2 on tv this week (during Malcolm in the Middle, I think, or maybe X-Files). It started off as an ad for the PS9 with adrenal gland input and broke into a montage of far-out futuristic game tech. Then they cut to a shot of the PS2 and flashed the words, "The Beginning"
</QUOTE>

I've seen that one a few times, but only after the launch nothing before that. those stupid 'it's thinking' ads for the Dreamcast where on a month before launch (and every half-hour the week before). I've seen the TTT ads a few times, and one ad for SSX last night while watching DBZ (you can not know how pissed I am that cartoon network took Gundam Wing off of the midnight showing, right in the middle of a section I missed last time).

Anyone else totaly dissaponted about Smuggler's Run and Midnight Club? I was expecting them to be like Midtown Madness, but come one they turned to to be the same damn game. Midnight Club sounded like it turn out like MM with some Hot Road elements thrown in, but nope it even used the same play modes from MM.  


--
None-1a.

O forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#15 by "Therac-25"
2000-11-07 20:12:42
zenfnord@hotmail.com
PS2 isn't all bad.  SSX does indeed kick fucking ass.  I'd wait until a native Final Fantasy game to consider buying it.

Actually, I bought a Dreamcast the thursday before last (the day the PS2 was released).  Something tells me that the DC is going to clean up this Xmas - with it being less than half the price, and a group of really kick ass games coming out right now (F355, Jet Grind Radio, Shenmue, Quake 3, and if you're into that sort of thing, Seaman).

Hopefully, competition will drive the prices of PS2's down.  

Well, probably not, but it's a nice thought.

Whatever.  It's a good time to be a gamer, anyway =)
#16 by "Chango"
2000-11-07 20:17:46
papa_chango@hotmail.com http://www.bionicgranny.com (coming soon)
Let me try this again ;)

I believe that, before I was so rudely interrupted by my stomach, was that the PS2 has been pushed as a games machine, but Sony's ultimate intention is that the PS2 be a DVD player that happens to play games on the side.
#17 by "asspennies"
2000-11-07 20:27:35
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org/
<b>#16</b> "Chango" wrote...
<QUOTE>I believe that, before I was so rudely interrupted by my stomach, was that the PS2 has been pushed as a games machine, but Sony's ultimate intention is that the PS2 be a DVD player that happens to play games on the side. </QUOTE>

If that's the case, they have a losing profit model, and they will never make any money.

Sony, like all console manufacturers, is selling their console at a loss.  If you sell more than three games for the console, you make up your loss in licensing revenues.

If the system is being purchased primarily as a DVD player, Sony will end up taking it up the posterior.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#18 by "flamethrower"
2000-11-07 20:30:41
flamethrower@barrysworld.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
I'm waiting for the X-Box. I don't know for sure if I'll buy it but I'll rip out my own eyes and throw them into a cage full of coked-up orgying actors rather than buy a SONY console.

Am I really the only one who is thinking "fuck the Japs, they have enough money".



<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#19 by "asspennies"
2000-11-07 20:35:11
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org/
<b>#18</b> "flamethrower" wrote...
<QUOTE>Am I really the only one who is thinking "fuck the Japs, they have enough money". </QUOTE>

As opposed to "fuck Microsoft, they have enough money"?

But seriosuly, I think the Xbox looks like an absolutely KILLER system, and I look forward to playing it.  One thing you can count on - the controller will rock.  Microsoft has a history of making excellent gamepads.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#20 by "The Joker"
2000-11-07 20:39:39
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
The XBox will rock. It'll beat anything out there in every category. It won't be long before MS owns the console market as well. And they will, the right way. It's only a matter of time.

Joker.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#21 by "fyrewolf"
2000-11-07 20:41:47
<quote>If the system is being purchased primarily as a DVD player, Sony will end up taking it up the posterior.</quote>

Not to mention that if Sony was really trying to sell it more as a DVD player, it would look a hell of a lot more like a DVD player.  It would have a display, and it would come with a remote that didn't need to be plugged into the control port.  Hell, they could have just taken the guts from a PSX and jammed it into one of their DVD players.  Added a few control ports and voila.
#22 by "fyrewolf"
2000-11-07 20:48:57
Microsoft really needs to move quick though.  Sony is going to have a big lead on them.  If MS can get the XBox out by Christmas 2001, they'll be in great shape.  If it gets delayed until 2002, however, they're going to be in trouble.

Both MS and Sony have deep pockets though, so it'll be a long fight no matter what.
#23 by "Uncle Jeet"
2000-11-07 20:50:35
jeet@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Yes, Sony is taking a loss on console sales.  But, this is nothing new to Sony.  Not by a long shot.  Sony was the leader, back in the day, with market flooding american shores with japanese television sets.  By doing this, Sony took a substantial hit in the guy from financial loses, but in the long run they ran out just about every domestic television manufacturer.  (When, of course, other japanese companies began to follow suit.)
  It's not at all noble or somesuch that Sony is doing this.  They realize, I believe, that the PS2 is far overpriced as is now - but they could not wait for prices to fall, with X-box and Gamecube around the corner.  They're taking a profit loss in the short term, in the hopes that they will sell enough hardware to drive licensed software sales and thus recoup the losses.
  I dunno, I don't think any ill of the PS2 - I just don't think it's worth the money.  I see the system as more of a stop-gap between truly 'next generation' systems (x-box, gamecube).  However, I think the Dreamcast will actually, in the end, outsell and outlast the PS2, comparitively.  Why?  Because it's cheaper, it's got some excellent games already out, and it has a large established fanbase.
  Now, Sony has a huge flock of fanboys - as is evidenced by sales at launch.  But even with the manufactured 'shortage' of systems, Sony is going to be hard pressed to keep up continued sales after Christmas if some first-rate titles don't begin to emerge.
  Basically, the longer it takes Sony to get those killer-apps out the door, the closer x-box gets.  Now, I don't really care, but many people will just throw up their arms and decide to wait for the 'next big thing' that's right around the corner.  (It's the same reason I'm not upgrading to a fancy new geforce2 right now.  Nvidia is releasing new hardware in much too short of intervals for my taste.)
  Anyway, back to work.

<b>Uncle</b> <i>Intellivision Rocks</i> <b>Jeet</b>
#24 by "shaithis"
2000-11-07 20:51:22
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
I've been thoroughly unimpressed with everything I've seen on the PS2 so far, with the exception of whichever snowboarding game it is that's more simulation, and less arcade (I think it's the one that's *not* SSX).

This Christmas is the time to buy a dreamcast (if you haven't already). Cheap, with a library of at least 15 "must have" titles and another 30 or so good ones, all of them better looking and playing than anything the PS2 will offer before 2001.

<b>Next</b> Christmas will be the time to buy a PS2, after the price has fallen and the good games have come out.

People are right, btw, the PS2 is currently being bought, in Japan anyway, mostly for its DVD capabilities. Why? Because DVD players are expensive as balls over there, and the PS2 is a couple hundred USD less than the average DVD player. SONY's not happy about this since, as asspennies pointed out, they're selling the product at such a huge loss that they need to sell at least three games per system just to break even.

The X-Box is going to be the next revolution in gaming. It's going to take gaming off the PCs entirely, and put it where it belongs: on a dedicated machine that can easily interface with both PCs and Televisions. It's also going to introduce a whole new generation of artists, mappers, and coders to the concept of user modifications (no one is going to buy the PS2 hard drive... it won't happen until the X-box, which has a native hard drive). A whole shitload of people will be like "whoah, I only ever used my computer for word processing. You mean I can make maps and stuff?!?"

I can't fucking wait. :)

-shai
#25 by "Chango"
2000-11-07 20:53:21
papa_chango@hotmail.com http://www.bionicgranny.com (coming soon)
Quoth Swinging 60's Throwback Mother:

<i>If this is how you describe the design of the PS2 unit, I would hate to see the decor of your living room.</i>

I suppose you and everyone else in the world decorates their living rooms with corrugated matte-black surfaces, and skirting board made out of neon blue strips?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting Sony should start encasing theor consoles in wood finish and earthy tones *shudder*.  No, that would be horrible.

I guess I'm hurting because I was waxing lyrical about it this time last year, and now it's out I realize I don't really want one.  The Gamecube will rock, though.  Without a doubt in my mind.

Chris Johnson Spake:

<i>Let's face it, launch titles by and large are sub standard for ANY system. "But what about Soul Calibur?" you ask. Well, a direct port of an arcade game from the Naomi architecture to a console based on the Naomi architecture wouldn't exactly be that hard to pull off in time for the super-app launch title. </i>

Console titles get progressively better and are optimized over time.  Launch titles are generally very impressive, or at least indicative of the <i>kind</i> of potential the console posesses within.
After the N64 launched with Mario64 - still considered an essential purchase for N64 owners several years after it's release - I don't believe Sony or Sega have any right to release substandard products and expect to get away with it.

It seems to have become the staple excuse when someone runs crying about how upsettingly 'average' their new console is, but it really shouldn't hold water.

There is a big difference between launch titles that are not taking full advantage of their hardware, and blatantly shit games.

Quoth Chris Johnson, Secondarily:

<i>Whoa. Bitter much?

I'm not going o get on a huge console vs console vs PC evangelical rant here; I'm not big on them, and really am not so completely interested in the whole debate as to choose sides. But I do think that any discussion like this needs to have some perspective as well... </i>

Yes I am bitter, but that is neither here nor there.
I am not big on the mine Vs. yours debates either, and I utterly detest the PC Vs. Console issue, as it's a nonstarter on several very important counts, but I don't believe this debate has wandered into that territory yet.  There have been comparisons in the technology and how it works as far as FSAA goes, but certainly no preferential bashing of one type in favor of another.

IMO, good games are good games.  Certain styles of game are, for me at least, better suited to sitting in an easy-chair in front of the television; and others are strictly a desk-keyboard-mouse job all the way.

If you don't want to get involved, why get involved just to announce your intention not to involve yourself?

And what perspective should I taint my post in?  I'm simply curious as to what you meant by having some perspective.

Peace

-Chango
#26 by "None-1a"
2000-11-07 21:07:09
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#19</b> "asspennies" wrote...
<QUOTE>But seriosuly, I think the Xbox looks like an absolutely KILLER system, and I look forward to playing it. One thing you can count on - the controller will rock. Microsoft has a history of making excellent gamepads.</QUOTE>

Well maybe, the first sidewinder pad rocked, it's been downhill from their on out (pure design the freestyle pad would be damn cool for all the skateboard and snowboard games that hit the things).

MS had better include some damn AV inputs on the back of the X-Box, as should all companies turning out a DVD/Gamesystem so at lest you could plug a VCR into the thing (since you normaly can't do that the other way around thanks to Macrovision). Heck MS damn near has to add the input since in all likly hood the X-Box will end up next to a Gamecube or PS2 in most homes.
--
None-1a.

O forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#27 by "fyrewolf"
2000-11-07 21:24:38
<quote>After the N64 launched with Mario64 - still considered an essential purchase for N64 owners several years after it's release - I don't believe Sony or Sega have any right to release substandard products and expect to get away with it.</quote>

The Nintendo 64 was launched in the US with 2 games.  And while Mario64 was certainly a good game, not everyone likes platformers.  Even six months after release, it hadn't broken twenty games.
#28 by "fyrewolf"
2000-11-07 21:28:38
The biggest disappointment I've had so far is Summoner.  It's got such potential, but the awful draw-in and a few other things just hurt it so much.  There's nothing worse than seeing a building appear out of thin air.  Well, Hitler was worse.  But not much else.
#29 by "Karl Palutke"
2000-11-07 21:34:53
palutkek@asme.org
<b>shaithis</b> (#24):
<QUOTE>People are right, btw, the PS2 is currently being bought, in Japan anyway, mostly for its DVD capabilities. Why? Because DVD players are expensive as balls over there, and the PS2 is a couple hundred USD less than the average DVD player. SONY's not happy about this since, as asspennies pointed out, they're selling the product at such a huge loss that they need to sell at least three games per system just to break even.
</QUOTE>

Doesn't Sony own a movie studio as well?  It seems that they'd benefit from adding a few million DVD players to the population.  Maybe not as much as they will from licensing revenues for the PS2 games, but it will definately help offset the risk.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#30 by "shaithis"
2000-11-07 22:30:02
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
<b>Karl</b> -

Yes, they do, but I have the feeling that the revenue on those is significantly lower than on a PS2 title... not to mention the fact that, of course, SONY doesn't take any revenue from DVDs they don't release, whereas they get a chunk of <i>any</i> game that comes out for the system.

SONY's not going to be brought to financial ruin even if the PS2 sells like shit, don't get me wrong. They're a mammoth company, and are not counting on the PS2 to fund their entire operation (not even remotely close), but I'm sure they would prefer to see PSX-like profits, rather than SEGA Saturn-esque losses, ya know?

-shai
#31 by "Bob Just Bob"
2000-11-07 23:17:16
kevinakabob@mindspring.com
I love my Dreamcast. I never bought into the whole PSX hype, and it seems that it took the system quite a while to build up its popularity. PS2 just doesn't have the time if Microsoft sticks with their schedule. I think October 2001 is the projected release of the XBox and if it is, Sony's "featureless black box" is doomed. With damn near every developer in the world already on board, MS will win. And I'm really looking forward to that hard drive too.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#32 by "[KAG]formerly known as Seth"
2000-11-07 23:22:19
d_k_denz@hotmail.com http://www.aelk.org
I once read that DVD-disc-sale went off the scale in Japan after the introduction of the PS2... Seems many people bought it at a cheap DVD-player for themselves, while telling everyone that they bought a console for their kid... Now why does the kids PS2 have to be kept in daddy's room???<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "[KAG]formerly known as Seth"
2000-11-07 23:24:43
d_k_denz@hotmail.com http://www.aelk.org
<b>#24</b> "shaithis" wrote...
<QUOTE>The X-Box is going to be the next revolution in gaming. It's going to take gaming off the PCs entirely, and put it where it belongs: on a dedicated machine that can easily interface with both PCs and Televisions. </QUOTE>
But who want sto buy a console if they already have a PC???
I for shure never will. Sitting better in front of my PC than in front of a TV. Not to talk about resolutions here...<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "bagofmice"
2000-11-07 23:28:27
rcastle@microsoft.com
Just to point out some things.. Soul Caliber had a MAJOR graphics upgrade when going from the arcade to the dreamcast. Hell, the arcade was using stipple for alpha effects.

Secondly, sony knows squat about doing a good launch. The lauch of the PSX was pretty bad in and of itself, and they didn't get much major support until they opened up their graphics libraries a year or so later.

Thirdly, PS2 has been advertised with the PS9 TV spot and the PS2 movie trailer, in addition to the print ads and time magazine fluff piece.
#35 by "bagofmice"
2000-11-07 23:28:59
rcastle@microsoft.com
Just to point out some things.. Soul Caliber had a MAJOR graphics upgrade when going from the arcade to the dreamcast. Hell, the arcade was using stipple for alpha effects.

Secondly, sony knows squat about doing a good launch. The lauch of the PSX was pretty bad in and of itself, and they didn't get much major support until they opened up their graphics libraries a year or so later.

Thirdly, PS2 has been advertised with the PS9 TV spot and the PS2 movie trailer, in addition to the print ads and time magazine fluff piece.

Fourthly, the Xbox WILL rock. :D
#36 by "bagofmice"
2000-11-07 23:32:55
rcastle@microsoft.com
ehm, right. Sorry bout the double post.
#37 by ""
2000-11-07 23:33:12
I don't know why people think all of the PS2 release titles are crap.

SSX is beyond execelent

Madden 2K1 is the best football game ever made hands down..

ESPN Winter X is a wild ride.

NHL is beyond execelent

Kessen is execelent

Dynasty Warriors II show the raw power and looks great, but get's old.

Smuggler's Run is execelent

Timer Splitters is execelent

UT is ok.

Midnight Club sucks ass.

Haven't played the rest.. but out of the 9 games I have played.. all 2/3 were execelent.  Can you say that for any other system and their inital release?
#38 by "KrassOtti"
2000-11-07 23:49:01
krassotti@hotmail.com
#30

Actually, Sony makes almost half of their money with the playstation. So if the PS2 won't be nearly as succesful, then Sony is kinda screwed. (They won't be bankrupt, but their shares would take a major hit)

-KrassOtti
#39 by "gimper"
2000-11-08 00:18:44
jeremyj@impactimaging.com
Excellent

Oh yeah, and X-box look great on paper, but from what I've heard it will have a stripped down Windows interface, soesn't this mean every owner of the thing will have to subscribe to Windows Update to take care of the bugs?

Just wondering
#40 by "Chris Johnson"
2000-11-08 00:25:42
<quote>There is a big difference between launch titles that are not taking full advantage of their hardware, and blatantly shit games. </quote>

Exactly, so why should the launch titles of a new console be compared to existing games of a known quantity, like Dreamcast, which people are doing here ad infinitum?

Regardless, the whole "Oh the PS2 must suck because of these few games I've looked at" attitude is short-sighted in one event, and soemwhat fanboyish to a fault (at least from some).  And no, I'm not accusing you personally, jus an observation from what various "Web-journalist" types are spewing.

<quote>I am not big on the mine Vs. yours debates either, and I utterly detest the PC Vs. Console issue, as it's a nonstarter on several very important counts, but I don't believe this debate has wandered into that territory yet. There have been comparisons in the technology and how it works as far as FSAA goes, but certainly no preferential bashing of one type in favor of another. </quote>

Actually there have been a couple of posts somewhat console vs console, but thankfully, no one has bitten.

<quote>IMO, good games are good games. Certain styles of game are, for me at least, better suited to sitting in an easy-chair in front of the television; and others are strictly a desk-keyboard-mouse job all the way. </quote>

True, and I agree with yu here, but even that line has been blurred what with consoles having (or peripherally available) hardrives, USB ports, mice and keyboards, and PCs having Console-esque controllers for them...

<quote>If you don't want to get involved, why get involved just to announce your intention not to involve yourself? </quote>

I never said I didn't want to get involved, I said I don't care to be involved in a huge flame war of the sort that degrades into the Q3A vs UT mindset.

<quote>And what perspective should I taint my post in? I'm simply curious as to what you meant by having some perspective. </quote>

Didn't mean you specifically... sorry.

I mean for people who are comparing current Dreamcast titles that are 2 and 3 years in development to launch titles of half the devel time, it's a questionable comparison, and that maybe a bit of perspective as to tech, complexity, and development time should be taken into effect... *shrug*

<quote>Just to point out some things.. Soul Caliber had a MAJOR graphics upgrade when going from the arcade to the dreamcast. Hell, the arcade was using stipple for alpha effects. </quote>

My point was that the development for it was severely eased by the fact it was ported over from extremely similar architecture.

<quote>Fourthly, the Xbox WILL rock. </quote>

Yeah, lord knows you're an unimpeachible, totally unbiased opinion. ;D

<quote>Smuggler's Run is execelent

Timer Splitters is execelent </quote>

Eh... I have to disagree on these two.  *Shrug*

And Jeet's right.  The Intellivision did own.

Personally, I'll wait to see how the chips fall for all of the games coming out... there'sa lot of potential and a slew of really great looking games yet to come out for it.  I think I'll wait to pass final judgement on the system.

Xbox question though: what's th huge deal for those of us who already play on PCs?  I mean this is a console simply for the non-computing isn't it, since it's just a PC with a TV connection basically, or did I miss something in between layers of meaning?
#41 by "Chris Johnson"
2000-11-08 00:27:19
To continue my XBox thought which I thoroughly interrupted...

Doesn't it then offer less to people who are using PCs?  Is there a reason why I would want to buy an XBox to compliment my PC already?  I can see doing this for other consoles, but for the XBox it seems rather dodgy.
#42 by "bagofmice"
2000-11-08 00:31:17
rcastle@microsoft.com
looks freat in silicon too
#43 by "gimper"
2000-11-08 00:33:47
jeremyj@impactimaging.com
With the Xbox won't ports of PC games be easy?  If so, this will mean either Xbox will get a lot of PC leftovers, or the other way around.
#44 by "bagofmice"
2000-11-08 00:34:00
rcastle@microsoft.com
Chris: well, if you don't want to wait a half-year for the top selling ports to come your way, and you want to play the stuff that doesn't get ported to PC...
#45 by "Todd G."
2000-11-08 00:38:44
toddg@ftel.net
I don't know about you guys but it seems to me that N64 isn't the most technologically advanced, Nintendo never really has been, yet they seem to make the most classical and funnest games.  Anyone else feel that way?  I mean look at the Nintendo made N64 games and compare them to the infinite rpgs/sports/racing games on other systems.  Take a game like Super Smash Brothers, now that game is hilarious and I've been playing it with my friends in the awesome 4 player mode since it came out.  Ever play Mario Brothers 2?  The mini-games will make you laugh until you explode.

Maybe I just find the Mario gang appealing.
#46 by "Todd G."
2000-11-08 00:39:20
toddg@ftel.net
oops I mean to say Mario PARTY 2, not Mario Bros. 2
#47 by "None-1a"
2000-11-08 00:39:50
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#39</b> "gimper" wrote...
<QUOTE>Oh yeah, and X-box look great on paper, but from what I've heard it will have a stripped down Windows interface, soesn't this mean every owner of the thing will have to subscribe to Windows Update to take care of the bugs? </QUOTE>

It's striped down Win2K, and has nothing to do with interface. It will manage hardware access, and networking that's all. OSs have so many bugs simply because they have become so complicated over the years a simplified OS would work fine (I don't see the Dreamcast needing updates and it's based around WindowsCE).
--
None-1a.

O forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "Datafox"
2000-11-08 00:56:45
datafox@yahoo.com http://www.madownage.net
Todd G is right Smash Bros is an excellent party game. I find I play it often with friends because there is just so much fun to be had in that one game. The game is easy to get into and just play like many of the N64 games. When you get more aquainted with the games you can start using tactics and skills to make it even better.

The Nintendo Gamecube is the system I want. I want a new Smash Bros. I find that I have enjoyed the 4 player games of the N64 a lot and they were all first and second party games.

The DC, PS2 and Xbox have yet to impress me in any way. Well the prices some PS2s are going for impress me a lot.
#49 by "Dethstryk"
2000-11-08 01:03:02
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>bagofmice wrote in post #35:</b>
<quote>Fourthly, the Xbox WILL rock. :D </quote>
I'm definitely of the same opinion. Microsoft's gaming departments have been doing better and better lately, and they have been cranking out some good products. (Yeah, I know most of them weren't <i>developed</i> by Microsoft, but it's all the same in the end.)

<b>Todd G. wrote in post #46:</b>
<quote>I mean to say Mario PARTY 2</quote>
Mario Party, the original and the sequel, are two of the most original games in a while, and even though they seemed to be geared for a much younger audience, grabbed quite a bit of mine, as well as my friend's time.


--
Dethstryk
#50 by "Mr_Shush"
2000-11-08 01:06:42
<b>#47</b> "None-1a" wrote...
<QUOTE>(I don't see the Dreamcast needing updates and it's based around WindowsCE).
</QUOTE>

:(<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
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