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Star Trek: Voy...
October 3rd 2000, 21:22 CEST by andy

Voyager - Elite Force, the Star Trek game from Raven, has been taking a bit of a bashing lately. Much too short, say the gaming masses. Even that nasty Broussard guy took time out to warn people, as did his cheeky sidekick Wiederhold. But hey, if you've got half a brain in your head then you don't listen to people on Usenet, you don't go to web forums for honest opinions, and you sure as hell don't take game-buying advice from developers...



But you DO read a load of reviews. So that's what I've done to save you time. (And before you say it, yes, I've got a lot of time on my hands. I just had some vicious dental work done so I'm taking it easy for a while.) With a little help from Blue's search engine I found about 40 reviews of Elite Force and went through the first 20 of them. Of those, 11 comment on the game being short...

Maximum3D: "The game does have a few minor issues, the length being the most notable. I finished the game on the Normal setting in about 8-10 hours of play. Granted, there is excellent Multiplayer modes, but the single player game could have used a little more playtime." (4.5/5)

Sharky Extreme: "Elite Force is also too short, perhaps even too short to recommend at all." (7/10)

Tech-Gods: "All in all, despite the somewhat short length of playtime (expect no more than 6-7 hours tops even on the highest difficulty) and rather anti-climactic ending, I still managed to enjoy this game very much." (9/10)

Sci-Fi Gaming: "The first alien ship you will beam onto is the Etherian vessel, which is made up of four individual maps which are completed in succession. So claiming fourty levels is a bit misleading. In total, it probably took me around 13 hours to play through the entire game, and I've read reports of folks completing it in less than 10 hours. So all in all, it's a bit short and it can probably be played through in one large session in a day. In my opinion I'd rather have a short and enjoyable game, though, than a boring long one, and in this regard Elite Force is reasonably successful in being the former." (8/10)

Firing Squad: "As if the single storyline wasn't bad enough, the game is pretty short to boot. Around ten hours of game play, give or take an hour. I was in and out of this game in two short days. One day if I hadn't started playing at midnight on the first night."

Speedy3D: "Elite Force is so short that you wouldn't even have to be that good (Normal Level) to complete it within a single day. In that time you could also make room to explore just about every opening, strange room or corridor and still make time for the finale. The game Fakk2 comes to mind for the same reason, but at least Fakk2 was somewhat difficult in sections, not EF. To put things in perspective, it's shorter than Fakk2 (physically and play wise) and just less than 1/3 the size of Half Life, making for a pretty limited all round experience. No sooner than you've got to your third away mission then you're at the final boss and ready to end the game, it's that short - not worth the money they're asking." (8.5/10)

Barrysworld: "Despite a somewhat lack lustre and short single player game, STV: Elite Force is still a fun diversion." (7/10)

Gamers Depot: "I must admit that Iím a little disappointed that it only took me about 2 days to play through it from start to finish on normal difficulty. On the other hand I think that I played through it so quickly because the game was so impressive that I just had to see what would happen next, so I did almost nothing but play Elite Force non-stop for those two days." (5/5)

Computer Games Online: "Half-Life in space, only shorter." (4/5)

The Sci-Fighter: "Unfortunately the game has the longevity of Marina Sirtis' post-Next Generation career. Though it covers a number of environments and contains a few puzzles, the game is relatively uncomplicated (probably a design decision to allow accessibilty to casual Trek gamers). In the wake of recent lengthy and involved games such as "Deus Ex", "Elite Force" seems an all-too-brief visit to the Delta Quadrant - serious gamers will blow through it in a couple of days." (7/9)

XLGaming: "Single player game a little short." (93%)

Eight of the remaining nine reviews don't comment on the length of the game at all. They are: ActionTrip, MPOG, Gamer's Pulse, GameLoft, Game Rankings, ESCmag, Daily Radar and GameSpy. (But those last two reviews were written by women, so...)

And because someone always has to be different, the review on Bot Epidemic stands out with this comment: "If you buy Elite Force, expect to lose many hours of sleep playing the singleplayer campaign!"

Here are the rest of the reviews, in case you don't think 20 is a good sampling:

http://www.head-2-head.org/eliteforceh2h.shtml
http://www.gamepower.com/games/html/15810main.html
http://www.zdnet.com/gamespot/stories/reviews/0,10867,2630022,00.html
http://www.gamepro.com/gpw/pc/article/0,1579,6794,00.html
http://cgi.gaming-age.com/gaming/reviews/review.pl?sys=pc&game=elite
http://www.dailyradar.com/reviews/game_review_888.html
http://pc.ign.com/reviews/11735.html
http://www.beyondtron.com/pc/games/elite.html
http://www.gamerush.com/reviews/eliteforce/
http://www.game-over.net/review/sept2000/eliteforce/
http://www.theecronom.com/reviews/pc/stef/stef.htm
http://www.avault.com/reviews/review_temp.asp?game=stvef
http://www.stomped.com/published/jcal969396982_1_1.html
http://www.gamecenter.com/Reviews/Item/0,6,0-4760,00.html
http://www.mgon.com/reviews.phtml?id=33593
http://www.gamingbliss.com/games.php3?gameid=startrekvoyagereliteforce
http://www.strategic-plus.co.uk/stef/Star_Trek_Elite_Force.htm
http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/reviews/pc/sep00/elite.html
http://www.gamespot.co.uk/pc.gamespot/strategy/stef_uk/review.html
http://www.cobraleague.com/gwd/index.cfm?pageid=showreview&reviewid=160

And two in German:

http://www.gamesweb.ch/pc/previews/s/st-voyageref/
http://www.stcreative.de/reviews/stvefreview.htm

Finally, for those who don't understand why I post topics like this, read carefully: It's information. It's not meant to spark a huge discussion. If you've got something to say then say it, but if not, don't. Simple, eh?

C O M M E N T S
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#1 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-10-03 21:23:12
Darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.pcinformer.co.uk
Dont even think about it.

Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "Twitch"
2000-10-03 21:24:41
twitch@gamepig.com http://www.gamepig.com
Dang.
#3 by "Brian"
2000-10-03 21:24:54
binaryc@teamreaction.com http://binaryc.teamreaction.com
Long games = bad.  I never finished Unreal, HL, Q2, or even Quake3 single player...
#4 by "superion"
2000-10-03 21:29:44
superion@swbell.net http://www.richent.com
elite force is like a better halflife, minus all the crap that piles up at the end of hl, which leaves it about 5 hours shorter in overall time than hl. if i was reviewing ef i'd complain mainly about the shitty bosses. that last meatpile is no armaggon(sp).

in fact, has any fps had any good bosses besides the Hipnotic pack? the stealth ninjas in HL were kinda cool, a bit too Metal Gear Solid biteish but cool none the less.
#5 by "asspennies"
2000-10-03 21:31:42
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org/
I find it funny that there was a lot of complaining when Half-Life: Opposing Force was released, that the game was too short for the money they were asking.

It seems that Elite Force is even <b>shorter</b>, and they're asking for the same price.

Now, I loved Opposing Force, don't get me wrong.  I also imagine I'd dig ST:EF (I liked the demo a lot) - but I do sense a disturbing trend...<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#6 by "Ghost in my Shell"
2000-10-03 21:34:03
The problem with most of the reviews is that they dont understand the audience that EF was made for. I doubt EF was made for the hardcore FPS player who can rail a fly on a mules ass but for the average trekker who would enjoy a good sci-fi game.

The game is not "short" its just that ppl experienced in FPS wont have a problem beating it in about 10 hrs or less.

I dont understand why so many reviewers are so nitpicky, finally a game that is solid is getting hit around like a whore. Its fun, good looking and not buggy, what more do you want?

Those who bash Q3 for its lack of SP and then when a Q3 engine game with a good decent story comes out, they just bash the hell out of it.

*full of grammar/spelling errors today!*
#7 by "CheesyPoof"
2000-10-03 21:35:14
cheesyp00f@ignmail.com
You forgot the Penny Arcade <a href="http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2000-09-25&res=l">review</a>.

I didn't care for the game.  It was boring and repetive.  Enter level, kill 40 bad guys, get health and ammo, goto elevator and repeat.

CP
#8 by "szcx"
2000-10-03 21:36:48
i dug the hell out of elite force.  single player was great, and multiplayer is an insane amount of fun.

the single player game is "only" 8 hours long.  what a travesty.  instead of implementing well thought-out scripted scenes and a good variety of levels, they should have followed the half life model;  dozens of mediocre levels, all exactly the same.  don't forget to stretch out a one hour story into 200 hours of "gameplay".

i'll take quality over quantity thank you very much.
#9 by "The Joker"
2000-10-03 21:40:42
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
<b>#3</b> "Brian" wrote...
<QUOTE>Long games = bad. I never finished Unreal, HL, Q2, or even Quake3 single player... </QUOTE>

Long games are GOOD as long as they keep being interesting (which keeps you playing) and don't get boring fast, i.e. Sanity.

Joker.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "enyak"
2000-10-03 21:46:04
I wished Metal Gear Solid was a bit longer. I also wished Elite Force was more original. However the artwork was fantasic. It's about the best eye-candy game right now.

-enyak

PS: Anyone else feel it's a bummer the full "Sniper Wolf's Death" Track didn't make it onto the soundtrack CD? :/
#11 by "enyak"
2000-10-03 21:53:04
Oh, and one thing that I was really disappointed in ST:EF was the music. Apart from the tracks composed by a gifted outhouse musician (intro theme and some cutscene cues), it was all very flat, synthetic, unoriginal and without knowledge of proper orchestration techniques. It's a shame that this kinda stuff still slips thru in the videogame world. You wouldn't want to watch a blockbuster movie with terrible music, now would you?

-enyak
#12 by "David Long"
2000-10-03 21:55:34
ogv@gamestats.com http://ogv.gamestats.com
Long? Short? It's the play that counts.  If it's fun, it's fun. If 10 hours of play is not enough for you, then you have every right to wait for the game to get cheaper to get more for your dollar. Many games are too long and contain repetitive, boring sections that are left in simply as filler. A strong, short single player experience that continues advancing plot or supplying compelling action is infinitely better than the game that adds levels for their own sake. (Which in my mind is the problem with Unreal.) I'm more concerned that a lot of the reviews have mentioned Elite Force is "just another shooter" for a lot of people and that it has a lot of problems with the teammate AI. Those things turn me off faster than the game's length does.

<b>#10</b> "enyak" wrote...
<QUOTE>I wished Metal Gear Solid was a bit longer. I also wished Elite Force was more original. However the artwork was fantasic. It's about the best eye-candy game right now.

</QUOTE>

Actually, the best eye-candy game right now is NASCAR Heat from Monster Games and Hasbro or Superbike 2001 from Milestone/EA. If you like graphics, these are the current pinnacle when run on a high end card. Sorry to burst the FPS-centered opinons here.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#13 by "None-1a"
2000-10-03 21:56:11
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#6</b> "Ghost in my Shell" wrote...
<QUOTE>I dont understand why so many reviewers are so nitpicky, finally a game that is solid is getting hit around like a whore. Its fun, good looking and not buggy, what more do you want? </QUOTE>

120+ hours of gameplay, 6 CDs and 4 gigs of install space (that's what the reviews seam to want not me).

Personal I like that fact that some of the reivews simply stated that the game was short but didn't really count that as a negative in the score, I don't see why others desided that the game was great overall but was just to short to recommend.

Now for a bit of topic stearing if you don't mind it. Think back on the games you've played, or hell reinstall some of them and play them again, how long do you acctauly play the single player game?

Quick list here

HL - I managed to get the single player complated in trhee days playing around 5-6 hours a day so maybe around 15-19 hours of gameplay.

c&c - when it was new it seamed like forever (mostly becuase I didn't have a clue what I was doing in a RTS game) I resinalled this one last night and played for 4 hours and managed to get halfway through it.

Insterstate 76 - an hour or two after school for a about a week and some play on the weekend, maybe 20-22 hours of gameplay out of that.

SoF - About 7 hours total

Now lets take the SW:EF numbers and plug them in, 6-13 hours where reported that isn't all that much shorter then the other games I've played and know the amount of time on (in fact I could probably get c&c in on the shorter side of that if I'd skip the movies).


In closing quality single player of any lenght + solid multiplayer = great game with a long shelf life.
--
None-1a.

O forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#14 by "Andy"
2000-10-03 22:04:19
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#6</b>, Ghost in my Shell:
<QUOTE>
The problem with most of the reviews is that they dont understand the audience that EF was made for. I doubt EF was made for the hardcore FPS player who can rail a fly on a mules ass but for the average trekker who would enjoy a good sci-fi game.
</QUOTE>
Yep, that's how I see it too. The right game being reviewed by the wrong people for the wrong audience. But...
<QUOTE>
I dont understand why so many reviewers are so nitpicky, finally a game that is solid is getting hit around like a whore. Its fun, good looking and not buggy, what more do you want?

Those who bash Q3 for its lack of SP and then when a Q3 engine game with a good decent story comes out, they just bash the hell out of it.
</QUOTE>
That is really, really NOT the impression I got from the 20 reviews I read. I did speed-read them, yes, so I'll have missed bits, but I found them to be at worst "ho hum", and most of them were very positive. I didn't see much nit-picking at all.

Of course, maybe I just read the 20 reviews that were positive, and the rest of them are all negative, but I doubt it. :-)
#15 by "BloodKnight"
2000-10-03 22:09:28
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>Brian</b> (#3):
<QUOTE>


Long games = bad. I never finished Unreal, HL, Q2, or even Quake3 single
player... </QUOTE>

FPS as a single player?  HA

Go play some RPG if you want single player
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#16 by ""
2000-10-03 22:15:25
<i>Thinking...</i>
#17 by "Ghost in my Shell"
2000-10-03 22:17:14
Im trying to remember how I played HL...it was so long ago...oh yeah

Probably 5-6 hrs the first day going oooh and ahh!

Second day a few hours...

Third day...getting to the alien/Super Mario lvls and feeling like im forcing myself to finish this game....

I think I just warped to the end of the game after a few alien battles just to see the end, since the ingame story ends at the alien levels...
#18 by "Ghost in my Shell"
2000-10-03 22:18:36
"That is really, really NOT the impression I got from the 20 reviews I read. I did speed-read them, yes, so I'll have missed bits, but I found them to be at worst "ho hum", and most of them were very positive. I didn't see much nit-picking at all."

I didnt get that from the reviews but my Quake 3 mentioning was from various accounts on the shack/msgboards/irc where I troll with people saying things like that...
#19 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-10-03 22:20:14
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>None-1a</b> (#13):
<QUOTE>HL - I managed to get the single player complated in trhee days playing around 5-6 hours a day so maybe around 15-19 hours of gameplay. </QUOTE>

This brings up an interesting topic though ... I honestly don't see how you got through HL in 15-19 hours.  It took me weeks.

How do you play?  Do you blast through in a bee line, looking for the exit to each area, or do you play like me ... exploring thoroughly, trying to get into weird areas looking for secrets and bonus items, breaking open every crate, etc ...

I think peoples playing styles need to be taken into account before taking their word for how long it takes to play something.

<b>Andy</b> (#14):
<QUOTE>Yep, that's how I see it too. The right game being reviewed by the wrong people for the wrong audience. But... </QUOTE>

Not that I'm bitter ... :P ... but WoT suffered from that problem a few times as well.  The game sometimes got reviewed by people who, in the first paragraph, make it clear that they hate the books and think Robert Jordan is a hack.  Then they proceed to review the game.  Guess how that turns out?  :-/


Oh BTW, here's a little factoid for those who are interested ... the subject of Unreals length came up at work a few weeks back, and Cliff tells me that the game they shipped is only half as long as what was originally planned.  :)

--

Warren Marshall - Professional Nuisance<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#20 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-10-03 22:21:19
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>BloodKnight</b> (#15):
<QUOTE>FPS as a single player? HA

Go play some RPG if you want single player </QUOTE>

I can't believe someone would actually say this ... Deus Ex and System Shock 2 were just as good an experience as any RPG I've ever played.  There's just less reading and more action ...

--

Warren Marshall - Professional Nuisance<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#21 by "Ghost in my Shell"
2000-10-03 22:25:38
Dungeons and Dragons: Tresure of Tarmain(whatever the fuck it was spelled) was the best RPG-FPS back in the day for intellivision ;-)
#22 by "Fortyseven[BTEG]"
2000-10-03 22:32:32
47@apple2.com http://www.bteg.com
#21:  OH GOD YES.  :D  Between Tarmin, and Tron Deadly Discs, Burgertime, and Astrosmash I had plenty of fun. :D  The Intellivison emulator from the Blue Sky Rangers is fantastic.  Highly recommend their CD compilation they have for sale.
#23 by "Ghost in my Shell"
2000-10-03 22:33:38
#22 Would you think that Tarmin counts as the first real first person shooter ;-)
#24 by "AshRain"
2000-10-03 22:33:58
ash_rain@hotmail.com
If a game is fun it seems shorter.

EF had a good storyline and varying missions. And I did play it the "explore" way. Had it completed in 6 to 8 hours. Way to short.

More. MORE!
#25 by "CheesyPoof"
2000-10-03 22:37:33
cheesyp00f@ignmail.com
<quote>How do you play? Do you blast through in a bee line, looking for the exit to each area, or do you play like me ... exploring thoroughly, trying to get into weird areas looking for secrets and bonus items, breaking open every crate, etc ... </quote>

That is how I played Deus Ex.  It took my 35 hours of play time my first time through (Deus Ex keeps track), which does not include re-play after dying.  The thing with EF is that there is no where else to go.  I found some "secrets", which would get you to a health or ammo station.  It was very boring for me.  Look at the infestation level, just throw 40 creatures at the player every turn in the corridor.  Boring.  I have no reason to play EF again, though I have played Deus Ex 4 times already.

CP
#26 by "Illbuddha"
2000-10-03 22:37:44
colin_kawakami@bossgame.com http://www.bossgame.com/
I enjoyed Elite Force. It may have been a little bit too short, but I definitely think it was worth the 40 dollars I plunked down for it at EBX.

The weakest aspect of Elite Force [MILD SPOILER] is something common to alot of games... mediocre boss monsters resulting in lackluster rather than climactic confrontations.
#27 by "None-1a"
2000-10-03 22:41:56
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#19</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
<QUOTE>How do you play? Do you blast through in a bee line, looking for the exit to each area, or do you play like me ... exploring thoroughly, trying to get into weird areas looking for secrets and bonus items, breaking open every crate, etc ...
</QUOTE>

Generaly I did expore a bit, and break open every create (never with the crowbar always with a biger gun) there where places where I just didn't bother to stop to do my normal exporing. I also generaly don't die in single player games (save quite a bit of time by not reloading and backtracking).

Generaly if you want to slow my ass down in a game you'd need to use smaller fights with much smarter enamies (thus the longer playtime for Insterstate 76) generaly the first time I play it's blasting every thing mopping up with a shotgun to open any remaining crates quick scan for any thing I missed then move on. I'll generaly play again to find every thing I missed so my original play time numbers would not reflect 'total' playtime by doing this (which is inline with many reivews).


--
None-1a.

O forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#28 by "Nick Burns"
2000-10-03 22:42:14
The_Nick_Burns@hotmail.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#25</b> "CheesyPoof" wrote...
<QUOTE>That is how I played Deus Ex. </QUOTE>

Damn it, it's DAY-OOSE EX!  Get it right crappers!  Especially you!  You know who you are.  Quit trying to hide.  I can see you standing behind that crate.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#29 by "Mark Asher"
2000-10-03 22:42:18
marka@cdmnet.com
You guys are complaining about the reviewers, but the scores they gave EF seem pretty good. Do you not want them to mention that the game is short? What do wish they had done differently?

A game's length is a legitimate issue, just like the graphics, sound, interface, and other parts.

I'd sure want a movie critic to tell me that Elite Force: The Movie was only 30 minutes long instead of the normal 90-120 minutes I'd expect.
#30 by "The Clubb (tm)"
2000-10-03 22:53:27
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#3</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "Brian" wrote:  
<QUOTE>Long games = bad. I never finished Unreal, HL, Q2, or even Quake3 single player... </QUOTE>

And considering I finished HL in three days, I didn't even think it was long :)

Unreal was my personal Bataan Death March though.

I loved the episode game structure from the games of yesteryear, as it made it seem like four or five short games, each being more difficult than the previous.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-10-03 22:54:29
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>CheesyPoof</b> (#25):
<QUOTE>That is how I played Deus Ex. It took my 35 hours of play time my first time through (Deus Ex keeps track), which does not include re-play after dying. The thing with EF is that there is no where else to go. I found some "secrets", which would get you to a health or ammo station. It was very boring for me. Look at the infestation level, just throw 40 creatures at the player every turn in the corridor. Boring. I have no reason to play EF again, though I have played Deus Ex 4 times already. </QUOTE>

Yeah, I'll give you that ... the EF levels don't really leave a lot of room for exploring.  There's just nowhere else to go besides the predetermined path they've given you.

--

Warren Marshall - Professional Nuisance<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#32 by "Certis"
2000-10-03 22:55:35
spleen@mts.net http://www.voodooextreme.com/Alteredworlds
I enjoyed Elite Force. Sure it was short but it's the quality that counts, not how long you last. At least that's what my girlfriend tells me...

Wait, what are we talking about again?
#33 by "Dethstryk"
2000-10-03 22:55:37
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>AshRain wrote in post #24:</b>
<quote>If a game is fun it seems shorter. </quote>
Amen. Deus Ex was actually a pretty lengthy game for me, but the days I spent playing it straight flew right by.


--
Dethstryk
#34 by "The Clubb (tm)"
2000-10-03 22:59:29
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#6</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "Ghost in my Shell" wrote:  
<QUOTE>I dont understand why so many reviewers are so nitpicky, finally a game that is solid is getting hit around like a whore. Its fun, good looking and not buggy, what more do you want?
</quote>

Maybe, a game you don't uninstall inside of two days. ;)

<quote>
Those who bash Q3 for its lack of SP and then when a Q3 engine game with a good decent story comes out, they just bash the hell out of it.
</QUOTE>

I think the engine is immaterial.  I have never been a fan of the Quake series (bashing it at every opportunity), yet I thoroughly enjoyed quite a few games that used those engines.

While I hate to use the word, as it tends to be thrown around far too much, FAKK 2 and ST:EF seem to be incredibly linear.  And by linear, I mean very few cul-de-sacs where you can explore and pick up useful items--it's pretty much a straight shot to the end of the level.  Frankly, I don't like this type of level design; even the highly praised Half-Life was a little too close to this IMO.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#35 by "None-1a"
2000-10-03 23:03:54
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#29</b> "Mark Asher" wrote...
<QUOTE>Do you not want them to mention that the game is short? </QUOTE>

Mark it's not exactly that they said it was short that gets to most people it's comments like this,

<i>Elite Force is also too short, perhaps even too short to recommend at all.</i>

<i>No sooner than you've got to your third away mission then you're at the final boss and ready to end the game, it's that short - not worth the money they're asking.</i>

Mind you not a single one of those reivews gave it a bad overall score (including the Sharky Extreme quote up there that said it was to short to recommend yet game it a 7 out of 10). These are not mear statements that the game is short but harping on that fact while still giving it a good overall review. Had more reivews simply done something like this, Elite Force while having a shorter play time then other resent releases manages to cram some great gameplay into that shorter playtime, rahter then the this game is to short stay clear of it yet we'll give it a good score stuff.
--
None-1a.

O forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#36 by "Greg"
2000-10-03 23:04:46
<B>5</B> "asspennies" wrote...
<quote>
I find it funny that there was a lot of complaining when Half-Life: Opposing Force was released, that the game was too short for the money they were asking.

It seems that Elite Force is even <B>shorter</B>, and they're asking for the same price.

Now, I loved Opposing Force, don't get me wrong. I also imagine I'd dig ST:EF (I liked the demo a lot) - but I do sense a disturbing trend...
</quote>
Actually, once OF went down in price, I found it to be a great buy. No, I don't think an expansion pack should ever cost $40. But when it is only $20, then OK. OF was a great complement to Half-Life, and I don't recall it being as short as you might think. I do seem to remember playing it for longer than 10 hours.

But a full game only taking 10 hours? Good thing my game of choice right now is Baldur's Gate 2.

Greg<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#37 by "baron_calamity"
2000-10-03 23:12:17
rcmerritt@home.com http://rcmerritt.homestead.com
I've been gaming since the release of the original Odyssey back in 1974. To be honest virtually ANY game out there I can complete in under 15 hours. Sure back when I played the original Kings Quest it took my weeks. Maybe 150 hours. However Grim Fandango took me 8 hours. (I get a big chuckle out of the reviews that claim GF takes 60+ hours. Maybe to a newbee or someone in a coma) The only games that took me longer in recent memory are rpgs like Baulders Gate and Final Fantasy 7. Which normally ran around 30-50 hours. Unreal took close to 25 hours but to be honest they were 25 long, painful hours. Half Life was a sub 20 hour game. Xcom and multiplayer games of TFC and CS I've put in hundreds of hours of replaying but they were different. What are people expecting?
#38 by "^mortis^"
2000-10-03 23:15:33
mortis@goddamnindependent.com http://www.goddamnindependent.com
I'd say the fact that it was named "Star Trek..." was pretty much what turned me off from the get-go.


^M^
#39 by "Ian"
2000-10-03 23:18:04
<b>#Main Post</b> "The Sci-Fighter" wrote...
<QUOTE>Unfortunately the game has the longevity of Marina Sirtis' post-Next Generation career.</QUOTE>

Why am I oddly proud that I don't know what the hell the above phrase means?

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#40 by "The Clubb (tm)"
2000-10-03 23:24:39
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#39</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "Ian" wrote:  
<QUOTE>Why am I oddly proud that I don't know what the hell the above phrase means?
</QUOTE>

Marina Sirtis did do a fair bit of cartoon work after ST:TNG was cancelled, so it wasn't quite as brief as people think.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#41 by "Reb Pizer"
2000-10-03 23:26:02
reb@entdepot.com http://www.entdepot.com
<b>Mark Asher</b> (#29):
<QUOTE>You guys are complaining about the reviewers, but the scores they gave EF seem pretty good. Do you not want them to mention that the game is short? What do wish they had done differently?

A game's length is a legitimate issue, just like the graphics, sound, interface, and other parts.

I'd sure want a movie critic to tell me that Elite Force: The Movie was only 30 minutes long instead of the normal 90-120 minutes I'd expect. </QUOTE>


I agree.  

Also, forget Half-Life, take Doom.  Was that too long?  What about Jedi Knight?  Duke 3D?  SOF?  Heretic I/Hexen Series?  The list goes on.  There are plenty of examples of pure FPS games that took 20+ hours (assuming that you're playing it through the first time, none of this "Quake-done-quick" business) to complete that didn't get repetitive by the time you finished them.  Maybe JK and the Hexens have some RPG-leanings, but their hearts and souls are those of an FPS.  

I find it interesting that the other Q3-engine game released thus far, Heavy Metal F.A.K.K 2, received the same complaint, (among others) too short.  To Elite Force's credit though, the lack of length is tempered by the fact that the story is much tidier and more satisfying, even if [[SPOILER!!]] the final bad guy is kind of lame.

Reb

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#42 by "Gestalt"
2000-10-03 23:31:15
john@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
superion - "the stealth ninjas in HL were kinda cool, a bit too Metal Gear Solid"

Actually, that reminds me .. I just got finished reviewing Metal Gear Solid, and there's a scene with a huge lift going down a slope with guys dropping down on you, which is remarkably similar to one in Half-Life with headcrabs dropping down on you. Same basic architecture, same slope, same lift...

MGS is a fairly short game as well - if it hadn't been for all of the long-winded cinematics and conversations over the codec, it would only have lasted four or five hours.
#43 by "Daemon Nite"
2000-10-03 23:32:35
First off, I loved every sleepless moment of Deus Ex.  It was a masterpiece, and there was no way that I wouldn't finish it.

However, if the game is not of that quality, and is just as long, there is a good chance I won't finish it.  And if I am not going to finish it, then how many gamers, more casual  than I, will not even see the halfway point?  

In my opinion games need to come down in length.  I only know of a few games in the last several years that were able to stay strong until the end.  Anyone else should have chopped half of their length and focused on quality for the first half.  One should not need a will of iron to make it through a game, but should instead be led along like blissful cattle.

Even great movies are hard to sit through if they are too long.  Rarely will you see one that can justify being 3 hours.  Perhaps we should take notice.

Daemon Nite
#44 by "Daemon Nite"
2000-10-03 23:33:33
Blast it.  Sleepless nights I spent playing Deus Ex.  Not sleepless moment.

Daemon Nite
#45 by "Ian"
2000-10-03 23:36:54
<b>#42</b> "Gestalt" wrote...
<QUOTE>I just got finished reviewing Metal Gear Solid</QUOTE>

I guess there, are two extremes when it comes to web reviews: The Daily Radar Way (Get the review out the first day), and the Gestalt Way (Play the game for two to three years, then put up a comprehensive review).<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#46 by "Ian"
2000-10-03 23:38:54
<b>#45</b> "Ian" wrote...
<QUOTE><B><A href="spy-internal:Load/162#42">#42</A></B> "Gestalt" wrote...

<quote>I just got finished reviewing Metal Gear Solid</quote>

I guess there, are two extremes when it comes to web reviews: The Daily Radar Way (Get the review out the first day), and the Gestalt Way (Play the game for two to three years, then put up a comprehensive review).</QUOTE>

Doh! Stupid, Stupid me. The <a href="http://www.eurogamer.net/content/r_mgs">review</a> is, of course, of the <b>PC</b> version of Metal Gear Solid, not the Playstation one that came out ages ago. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#47 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-10-03 23:39:59
charliew@3drealms.com
My month long bet of staying off message boards is over and I had intended it to last forever with a few cents tossed in here and there. This will be the first cent.

I totally dug Voyager Elite Force (thus the quote of "...if I didn't like ya so much, I'd have to kill ya for that" and I hope Raven makes several more full games just like it (not just addon packs but market them as entire new stand alone episodes).

I'm not much of a Star Trek fan, and the FPS aspect of the game had me yawning all the way through... but it was still a very enjoyable experience and I'd do it again. Especially if they move away from in game cinimatics and focus more and more on *me* being in the episode. I want to be sitting at the table during the discussions. Not watching myself sitting at the table during the discussions (make sense?).

However I tried to go slooooow (restarting over and over to do things just right, talking to everyone to get every piece of dialog) and still beat it faster than I beat FAKK 2 during beta testing where I was under a time crunch, which is already a short game itself. I guess it reached my personal threshold of being too short while still being the cost of a full game (where FAKK 2 was still above that threshold). Multiplayer is icing on the cake for me personally, so I don't include it in the value. Especially when I'm going to play just as much Voyager multiplayer as FAKK 2 multiplayer (pre-patch).

I would suggest the game to any ST fan, and to anybody who just enjoys to sit back and be pulled through an interesting sequence of events. The game was a lot of fun in a wierd non-gameplay sort of way, the characters were interesting, the dialog good (except 7 of 9, oh dear god make her stop talking please) and if it had been $25-$30 standard I would have been pleased with the value. I hope they make some more and sell them at that middle ground price range. I'll buy them.

Charlie Wiederhold
#48 by "Andy"
2000-10-03 23:45:37
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#47</b>, Charlie Wiederhold:
<QUOTE>
My month long bet of staying off message boards is over and I had intended it to last forever with a few cents tossed in here and there. This will be the first cent.
</QUOTE>
I *swear* that isn't why I mentioned you in the topic! (And I trust you didn't take offence, it was in good spirits.)
<QUOTE>
I hope they make some more and sell them at that middle ground price range. I'll buy them.
</QUOTE>
Exactly what I think. Short games are fine -- at the right price. (I know this may be seen to contradict something I said earlier, but it doesn't, I'm just not in the best of moods to explain myself properly.)
#49 by "Apache"
2000-10-03 23:50:12
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
With the site downtime I've actually played through the game twice. The first time it was great, second -- it bored me to tears. While the graphics do dazzle, the definite lack of substance Elite Force offers puts it well off my must buy list, and is a run of the mill, average, brainless, first person shooter.
#50 by "superion"
2000-10-03 23:56:30
superion@swbell.net http://www.richent.com
#12, you forgot to throw in NHL2K1, with some of the best models and animation i've ever seen.

in terms of fps gameplay, im still waiting for the meld of pinball style point gaming (like say Virtua Cop, Time Crisis) to mesh with a coherent mission based fps. MakenX on the Dreamcast almost pulls it off, but you have a sword, not a gun. Perfect Dark almost had it too, but it'd be best with a mouse and some lean/sidestep buttons.

theres moments in EF like this, like the scavengers in the cargo bay, or the invasion mission (which as ive already said, slaps any other script based [sin, hl] sequence silly).
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