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Out-Of-The-GameFan
October 1st 2000, 08:42 CEST by andy

It looks like the long-expected demise of the GameFan network has decided to arrive on a weekend. So that means: (a) hosted sites have less chance of promptly finding a new host, (b) employees have less chance of promptly finding a new job, and (c) creditors have to wait two days before they have a reasonable chance of starting legal proceedings. And to think, people have said the GameFan bosses were a bunch of shysters...



An e-mail purportedly sent from a GameFan affiliate to one of their own sites explains: "I apologize for the short notice on this. I just received an e-mail from our hosts, GameFan Network, that they will no longer be providing hosting to any sites. [...] This means that we cannot provide reliable hosting for the foreseeable future, even if we do secure new hosting. I strongly recommend you begin transferring your sites off immediately, as GFN says all access will be revoked by Monday." GameFan's own portal site is already dead.

Not much more to say on this story, really. Best of luck to anyone who still has money owing to them for unpaid salaries and/or advertising revenue.

C O M M E N T S
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#1 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-10-01 08:49:03
Sgt_Hulka@Hulka.com http://www.hulka.com
If you're a cool site and looking for a new home, give me a cawl and I'll see what I can do.  From what Lowtax has said, Gamefan is not much better than the FGN Fuckstix.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "Dethstryk"
2000-10-01 08:49:45
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
GXNetwork has pulled the same stunt, as they have notified a number of sites to move out, because files have already started being destroyed. The shitty thing about GX is that not all sites received the notice, and were promptly annihilated without any kind of word why. That's some ass to me.


--
Dethstryk
#3 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-10-01 08:50:02
Sgt_Hulka@Hulka.com http://www.hulka.com
Wow, I didn't even 1st post ya bitches.  What's up with that shit?  FUCK!  Damn my language. I be hopeless.  You got room in the hut Andy?  ;)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#4 by "Dethstryk"
2000-10-01 09:01:38
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Sgt Hulka wrote in post #3:</b>
<quote>Wow, I didn't even 1st post ya bitches. What's up with that shit? FUCK! Damn my language. I be hopeless. You got room in the hut Andy? ;)</quote>
Hulka, Hulka..

Don't worry, the bondage police will be arriving shortly.


--
Dethstryk
#5 by "Jason Schroder"
2000-10-01 09:18:46
jasonsch@mail.com
<QUOTE>Not much more to say on this story, really.</QUOTE>

How about the contributing factors that brought around their demise, for those of us who don't know the whole story? I would've thought that not paying people would be a good money saver.
#6 by "Naked Exposition"
2000-10-01 09:18:56
samuelbass3000@hotmail.com
Well, it's been a long time a comin'.

I spoke to a Gamefan/Express employee way back in July and they told me it would be a miracle if they made it through christmas.

Despite my general dislike of Gamefan, my 'ding dong the witch's dead' festivities are undercut by the sad realization that Lowtax et al. may never recieve their rightly early cash.
#7 by "Andrew Stine"
2000-10-01 09:52:31
linguica@doomworld.com http://www.doomworld.com
With people talking about all these crappy hosting services I feel I should mention one which I feel to be great.  I have been on the Telefragged network for probably 3.5 to 4 years now, first for my Doom TC project and then for Doomworld.com, and during that whole time there has been maybe 2 weeks total downtime.  TF has been great about helping me out with tech problems, giving me code to use and instructions on how to use it, HTML and graphics help, site promotion, prizes for contests, E3 passes, etc etc.  I know it probably sounds like I am just pimping Telefragged here, but I really have been very pleased with their service and I would highly recommend it to anyone.
#8 by "Glock"
2000-10-01 11:43:45
glock17@tampabay.rr.com
Figures.  But Apache gave us a hint that VoodooExtreme may be going it alone.

Gamefan may be done, but their parent company isn't.

Lowtax still has a case against Express.com, the people who owned gamefan network.
#9 by "Ozymandis"
2000-10-01 12:44:55
rcrisl1@gl.umbc.edu http://none
I just hope everyone gets their money.  Express.com really went overboard, from what I can see.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "Mocomojo"
2000-10-01 15:20:34
mocomojo@--nyet--mokeyotown.com http://www.mokeytown.com
In the future the world will be purged of money-hungry 'news' sites/portals like gamefan. Although i feel sorry for Lowtax & co. i can't wait until people realise that the internet isn't the cash cow that it once seemed to be.
#11 by "12xu"
2000-10-01 16:08:29
mswitzer@insync.net http://www.hichouston.org
Posting from home...

Am I the only one who finds it strange that nobody else is reporting on this?  Maybe PC just got a scoop here, or nobody else feels like this is news.  

I always wondered why when things like VE going down for a day or two that other news sites didn't report on what was going on.

Is PC the only thing like a news sites that reports on the community, which certainly includes sites like VE, Scary's, Blues, etc., not just the games?

I mean if The Wall Street Journal mysteriously didn't publish for a few days don't you think The New York Times would report on it?

Somebody set me straight on this...


12xu
out
#12 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-10-01 16:38:27
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
<b>#11</b> "12xu" wrote this stuff"
<QUOTE>Is PC the only thing like a news sites that reports on the community, which certainly includes sites like VE, Scary's, Blues, etc., not just the games?
</QUOTE>

Don't know when the last time you checked Blue's was, but they do have a news bit up about it. At the moment, it is not a linked story though, just a bit at the end in the etc. section.

<b>#10</b> "Mocomojo" wrote this stuff"
<QUOTE>In the future the world will be purged of money-hungry 'news' sites/portals like gamefan. Although i feel sorry for Lowtax & co. i can't wait until people realise that the internet isn't the cash cow that it once seemed to be. </QUOTE>

There are always going to be people trying to sell the fast buck, and there will always be people willing to buy into it. This is neither the first time or the last time this is going to happen.


As for closing on a weekend as a way to screw your people, that's just business. And it's not like people did not know it was happening, people have been talking about it here for a week. Yeah, it sucks if you were not ready for it, but if you were not ready for it, what have you been doing for the last couple of days?
 
 

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#13 by "mrbloo"
2000-10-01 16:41:13
mrbloo2000@hotmail.com http://NA
<b>#5</b> "Jason Schroder" wrote...
<QUOTE>


<quote>Not much more to say on this story, really.</quote>

How about the contributing factors that brought around their demise, for those of us who don't know the whole story? I would've thought that not paying people would be a good money saver.



</QUOTE>

Yes, I'd like to hear the background story as well.  I only heard about it when Lowtax started laying into Gamefan and Express.com.  I also noticed that VE was down for the last few days, but yes, it hasn't been mentioned on any of the other sites...

Also, I've noticed a fair few Counter-Strike ads on VE.  How do they make VE money, and exactly how much would a site like VE need to keep paying for its undoubtedly enormous bandwidth costs?  Just how much money do the sites like VE, Blues, Sharky and Anandtech need to keep going and how much do they make every month?  Internet economics are a big mystery to me, I have to admit.

Of course, I don't know how much people can actually say about this, but some rough figures would be nice ;)

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#14 by "Andy"
2000-10-01 16:42:04
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#11</b>, 12xu:
<QUOTE>
Am I the only one who finds it strange that nobody else is reporting on this? Maybe PC just got a scoop here, or nobody else feels like this is news.
</QUOTE>
It was mentioned as an "etc" on Blue's.

I'm not surprised that it isn't getting a lot of coverage elsewhere, but I'm very, very, very surprised it hasn't been mentioned on SomethingAwful. Then again, hasn't Rich started a law suit against Express.com? Maybe he's been advised not to mention GameFan at all.
#15 by "Whisp"
2000-10-01 16:49:04
whisp_@hotmail.com
I would also like to enter a request for just a bit more info.  Not all of us spend all of our time cruising from site to site collecting gossip.  Nor do we all have contacts among those on the inside of the business.  Bluesnews and PlanetCrap are about the only two game related sites I visit regularly any more.

-Whisp
#16 by "Frain"
2000-10-01 16:58:49
frain@bigfoot.com
<b>#14</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>I'm not surprised that it isn't getting a lot of coverage elsewhere, but I'm very, very, very surprised it hasn't been mentioned on SomethingAwful</QUOTE>

Lowtax's wrote quite a bit on that topic but his lawyers advised him to take it down...if you're really interested in what exactly he's said I'll have a look if I can find it in my proxy's cache...

Frain<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#17 by "baron_calamity"
2000-10-01 17:17:30
rcmerritt@home.com http://rcmerritt.homestead.com
So what other well know sites besides voodooextreme were effected? I guess I'm not a gamefan groupie since VE was the only site that I visit that was effected.
#18 by "Apache"
2000-10-01 17:25:17
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
voodooextreme was not effected. we started the process of moving to a new host before express pulled the plug on the network.
#19 by "mrbloo"
2000-10-01 17:28:51
mrbloo2000@hotmail.com http://NA
<b>#18</b> "Apache" wrote...
<QUOTE>

voodooextreme was not effected. we started the process of moving to a new host before express pulled the plug on the network. </QUOTE>

But wasn't VoodooExtreme affected in that it didn't receive any revenue from Gamefan for the last few months?  Or did it?

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#20 by "Joost Schuur"
2000-10-01 17:34:06
jschuur@gamespy.com http://developer.gamespy.com
<b>#18</b> "Apache" wrote...
<quote>
voodooextreme was not effected. we started the process of moving to a new host before express pulled the plug on the network.
</quote>

Boy oh boy, I get a chance to ask this in public: Nick 'Trixter' Fisher, formerly of Warzone/GameFan, now of Express.com is 2 out of 3 of the domain contacts for voodooextreme.com. How is this affecting the site move and how do you plan on ensuring long term stability with all 3 contacts pointing to Express.com related email addresses?

You could of course conceivably just continue to use the same name server if you have access to it, point it at your new server and ignore the other problem for now.
#21 by "Andy"
2000-10-01 17:36:33
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#16</b>, Frain:
<QUOTE>
Lowtax's wrote quite a bit on that topic but his lawyers advised him to take it down...if you're really interested in what exactly he's said I'll have a look if I can find it in my proxy's cache...
</QUOTE>
Yes please. :-)


<b>#17</b>, baron_calamity:
<QUOTE>
So what other well know sites besides voodooextreme were effected? I guess I'm not a gamefan groupie since VE was the only site that I visit that was effected.
</QUOTE>
I don't know about "well known", but there were dozens of hosted sites. Remember that they hosted sites about consoles as well as PCs, and I think they had some about TV shows and cartoon serieseseses too??

I've never followed GameFan so I was hoping Lowtax and Apache would kinda take over this thread. Hint hint. :-)
#22 by "Andy"
2000-10-01 17:40:10
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#20</b>, Joost Schuur:
<QUOTE>
Nick 'Trixter' Fisher, formerly of Warzone/GameFan, now of Express.com
</QUOTE>
Nick Fisher was at GameFan? Now why doesn't this surprise me? ;-)

Shows how little I knew about GameFan if I didn't even know Nick Fisher worked there.
#23 by "Andy"
2000-10-01 17:42:34
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#21</b>, Andy:
<QUOTE>
I think they had some about TV shows and cartoon serieseseses too??
</QUOTE>
To clarify, I meant <b>web sites about</b> TV shows and cartoon seriesesiieseses. They didn't have the actual TV shows and seriiiiseeeesesssies.
#24 by "Apache"
2000-10-01 17:43:38
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
#20/19:

nick lost everything when he sold out to gamefan/who lost everything to express. as far as former domain contract claims, non payment issues or other factors, they have been taken care of. you will see where we end up next week.
#25 by "Andy"
2000-10-01 17:44:08
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
Oh screw it, I misread my own post. Ignore me, that's what I do.
#26 by "Joost Schuur"
2000-10-01 17:52:31
jschuur@gamespy.com http://developer.gamespy.com
<b>#24</b> Apache wrote:

<quote>
you will see where we end up next week.
</quote>

Either EFront or GameCenter... whoever wins the bidding war.

Best of luck with your negotiations, Apache + Co...
#27 by "Andy"
2000-10-01 18:00:47
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#26</b>, Joost Schuur:
<QUOTE>
Either EFront or GameCenter... whoever wins the bidding war.
</QUOTE>
Hmm... I always wonder about people who do this sort of thing.

Assuming you're right, and assuming you somehow <i>know</i> you're right, why did you feel the need to tell people? Obviously if Apache et al wanted people to know, one of them would have told us. As they haven't told us, that suggests they don't want us to know. (Not for any 'sinister' reasons, just because it's a private deal and it's none of our business.)

So what exactly was the point of telling people? Was this just some silly "knowledge is power" thing and you thought it would be cool to show that you know something "secret"? Or was there another reason?
#28 by "Ian"
2000-10-01 18:02:59
<b>#27</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>So what exactly was the point of telling people? Was this just some silly "knowledge is power" thing and you thought it would be cool to show that you know something "secret"? Or was there another reason?
</QUOTE>

"Information wants to be free, man."

The excuse of people who can't keep their mouths shut :o)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#29 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-10-01 18:07:04
Sgt_Hulka@Hulka.com http://www.hulka.com
<b>#20</b> "Joost Schuur" wrote...
<QUOTE>Nick 'Trixter' Fisher</QUOTE>

Hrmm... Something about that name gives me the willies!

Voodooextreme is going to be A-Ok in a few days.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#30 by "Joost Schuur"
2000-10-01 18:07:19
jschuur@gamespy.com http://developer.gamespy.com
Those seem to be the only 2 options left.

EFront has been quietly buying up game properties and GameCenter has the corporate backing to give them a lot of cash. Heck, the Counterstrike mod (a former GameFan hosted site) moved there (through Stomped) the other week, thus settign a precedence.

Who else is it going to be? Certainly not UGO/IGN/FGN... They're all on shakey grounds financially and don't stand to survive the next 12 months.
#31 by "Max"
2000-10-01 18:11:06
Thought to share this bit from http://www.animenewsservice.com/

9-29-00---- Express.com Present Status

The status of fan-favorite DVD etailer Express.com has recently been the topic of great discussion in a number of Anime-related forums. According to a new e-mail bulletin circulated by Video Business:

"Online DVD retailer Express.com running low on cash, put on C.O.D. by suppliers. Full story by Wendy Wilson exclusively in the Oct. 2 print edition of Video Business."
#32 by "Andy"
2000-10-01 18:18:24
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#31</b>, Max:
<QUOTE>
"Online DVD retailer Express.com running low on cash, put on C.O.D. by suppliers. Full story by Wendy Wilson <b>exclusively in the Oct. 2 print edition of Video Business.</b>"
</QUOTE>
Way off-topic, but doesn't this sort of thing remind you of how good the web is? Let me rephrase it:

"Full story by Wendy Wilson exclusively in the Oct. 2 print edition of Video Business, available to 0.0001% of the world's population."

I'd much rather read:

"Full story by Wendy Wilson, available to anyone with a computer and a phone line."

I know this is soooo obvious, but I just wanted to say it. The idea of hiding something away in a print mag, available to only a small number of people, is something that just doesn't fit into the way the world is going nowadays.
#33 by "The Joker"
2000-10-01 18:26:27
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
<b>#21</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE><B><A href="spy-internal:Load/159#16">#16</A></B>, Frain:

<quote>
Lowtax's wrote quite a bit on that topic but his lawyers advised him to take it down...if you're really interested in what exactly he's said I'll have a look if I can find it in my proxy's cache...
</quote>
Yes please. :-)
</QUOTE>

Yeah, I'd like to have a read too :)

Joker.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "Ian"
2000-10-01 18:42:52
<b>#32</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE><B><A href="spy-internal:Load/159#31">#31</A></B>, Max:

<quote>
"Online DVD retailer Express.com running low on cash, put on C.O.D. by suppliers. Full story by Wendy Wilson <B>exclusively in the Oct. 2 print edition of Video Business.</B>"
</quote>
Way off-topic, but doesn't this sort of thing remind you of how good the web is?
</QUOTE>

I agree with you Andy. No matter how many people claim that Print Magazines are better than web ones, I believe that not only has about 5% of the webs potential been used, but already, it has numerous advantages over print. Among them:

<b>Links</b> - At the end of an article or a book, you'll see a bibliography. If the book is print, you have to go to a library and hunt down these other sources. On the web, your just one click away from those same resources

<b>Audio</b> - I'm surprised that more sites haven't taken advantage of this yet. I'd especially like to see innovations such as audio, color, and animation in more web comics. Why just make your product the same as one in a newspaper when it could be so much better?

<b>Animation/Video</b> -  Some mags offer CDs as a way to show these. Unfortunatly, High Bandwith connections are not yet so common that most sites offer videos or animation.

<b>Interactivity</b> - If you want your voice to be heard in a print magazine, your letter has to be so special as to be picked out of the thousands to be one of the four printed a month later in the mag. On the 'net, you can communicate instantly with other readers of the publication.


And many, many more. I love you, Internet!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#35 by "JMCDaveL"
2000-10-01 18:47:27
lachney@ebicom.net
Nick Fisher is the root of all evil.

And an amazing con artist to boot.
--jmc
#36 by "Speed"
2000-10-01 18:49:46
speed@pandora.be http://fragland.net
Apache wrote :<I>voodooextreme was not effected. we started the process of moving to a new host before express pulled the plug on the network.</I>

How come then that I can't reach VE ?

12xu wrote :<I>Am I the only one who finds it strange that nobody else is reporting on this? Maybe PC just got a scoop here, or nobody else feels like this is news. </I>

I posted this story at 15:29 CET as a main item on our site
I even linked PC :)

About the hosted sites : They're welcome at Fragland, but we cannot give them money for banner ads at the moment since we decided to leave UGO aswell and are still busy with a new banner ad-seller.

Speed,
Fragland.net admin, news editor
#37 by "Ian"
2000-10-01 18:53:10
<a href="http://www.penny-arcade.com">Penny Arcade</a> reported on this story but was completely and totally off base.

<quote>
Yo, where the hell is VoodooExtreme? Jesus, or any Gamefan site? I've heard it's some kind of equipment thing (and not some dire Gamefan Apocorypse).
</quote><I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#38 by "Twitch"
2000-10-01 18:53:28
twitch@gamepig.com http://www.gamepig.com
#21 Andy wrote:
<quote>I don't know about "well known", but there were dozens of hosted sites. Remember that they hosted sites about consoles as well as PCs, and I think they had some about TV shows and cartoon serieseseses too??

I've never followed GameFan so I was hoping Lowtax and Apache would kinda take over this thread. Hint hint. :-) </quote>

I guess my little hobby is one of those "dozens of hosted sites," so I can throw a few sticks on the fire - but unfortunately, I don't have too many juicy details. :) We were hosted on the GameFan network for a few months, arriving (and leaving) shortly after Something Awful. Pretty much the same experience as Lowtax, although much larger numbers were involved for him :)

We stole away in the night after being presented with a "new and improved" contract that basically involved stripping out even the potential for payment on banner ads. Fortunately, we'd had most of the important files mirrored on our own machines, and hadn't given control over the DNS - which I've heard has been a big problem for other sites. Warning to other webmasters starting out: ad networks can be nice people, but they're running a business too. Keep your asses covered...and backed up :)
#39 by "Whisp"
2000-10-01 19:00:08
whisp_@hotmail.com
<b>#38</b> "Twitch" wrote...
<QUOTE>Pretty much the same experience as Lowtax, although much larger numbers were involved for him :)</QUOTE>

And this experience would be...?  About the only thing I can figure out is that people weren't being paid what they were owed for ads, etc.

<b>#35</b> "JMCDaveL" wrote...
<QUOTE>Nick Fisher is the root of all evil.

And an amazing con artist to boot. </QUOTE>

Details?  I've never even heard of this guy.  

-Whisp
#40 by "Andy"
2000-10-01 19:08:34
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#39</b>, Whisp:
<QUOTE>
About the only thing I can figure out is that people weren't being paid what they were owed for ads, etc.
</QUOTE>
That isn't enough?

Why do you need a long list of baby eating and ass munching antics?

Put it into perspective: Imagine your boss not paying you. Nothing. Not a penny. Would you think that was a bad situation to be in? I think you would.
#41 by "Whisp"
2000-10-01 19:15:23
whisp_@hotmail.com
Yes it's enough.  The way people are talking though it sounded like there was much more going on.  I can't believe the things businesses get away with online already regarding non-payment and shady business practices.

-Whisp
#42 by "Paul"
2000-10-01 19:35:49
paul@shrinkweb.com http://www.shrinkweb.com
Speed:

My guess is that your DNS needs to be updated. It could take a few days.

If that's the case, you can blame gamefan for not having a forward page to the new IP number.
But, these are the same folks who didn't even spend the few bucks to have a page up, that says, "we've closed." on their main page.

- Paul
#43 by "Paul"
2000-10-01 19:40:15
paul@shrinkweb.com http://www.shrinkweb.com
JMCDaveL:
<quote>
Nick Fisher is the root of all evil.

And an amazing con artist to boot.
</quote>

Obviously he wasn't too amazing;-). Unless of course, he profited greatly and ripped off his employees/partners/whoever else.

i see express.com is still up and running. i wonder how long this will last.

- Paul
#44 by "Andy"
2000-10-01 19:43:04
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
It's a shame Express.com doesn't have a message board. I have some speech that needs its freedom.
#45 by "Fortyseven[BTEG]"
2000-10-01 20:02:52
47@apple2.com http://www.bteg.com
Anyone know how tightly the 'GameFan Network' was affiliated with the magazine?  Does this even affect the magazine?

I just tossed a measly $12 for a one year subscription.  The price was right, and liked that they covered older games. :)
#46 by "Twitch"
2000-10-01 20:05:38
twitch@gamepig.com http://www.gamepig.com
#39 Whisp wrote:
<quote>And this experience would be...? About the only thing I can figure out is that people weren't being paid what they were owed for ads, etc. </quote> Well, that's the main thing, yes :)  There were other issues that arose, the major one being traffic stats. The numbers we're getting from the new network are almost twice as high as what we were hearing from GameFan, who weren't providing access to server logs.

Let me qualify this all by saying that it wasn't a total horror story. For the most part, they were helpful, and the hosting itself was good - little down time, good bandwidth and speeds. If I actually depended upon or expected ad revenue, I'd probably be more ticked off, but as it stands I'm just happy we got out in the nick of time :)
#47 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-10-01 20:18:26
steve@manic-pop-thrills.com http://www.manic-pop-thrills.com
<b>#11</b> "12xu" wrote...
<QUOTE>Am I the only one who finds it strange that nobody else is reporting on this? Maybe PC just got a scoop here, or nobody else feels like this is news. </quote>
Because not everyone works 24-7?

<quote>Is PC the only thing like a news sites that reports on the community, which certainly includes sites like VE, Scary's, Blues, etc., not just the games? </quote>
Publications covering other competing publications is a tricky thing. In the past, by merely mentioning the shutting down of a competitor we were accused of gloating (it was a straight news story).

---
"My life is a patio of fun."<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-10-01 20:34:21
steve@manic-pop-thrills.com http://www.manic-pop-thrills.com
<b>#32</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>I know this is soooo obvious, but I just wanted to say it. The idea of hiding something away in a print mag, available to only a small number of people, is something that just doesn't fit into the way the world is going nowadays. </QUOTE>
Hiding? It's hardly hidden if it is available.

The way the world is going nowadays doesn't work, and we're starting to see the shakeout as all of these online editorial entities either collapse or merge together. They need content, content, content (content=site traffic, quantity means more than quality), and no one can afford to pay for the it without a good revenue stream.

You think someone would do an article like a full investigation on express.com for free? Maybe, but the majority of people need to make a living and deserve some compensation for their hard work.

Unless of course people are really content with more and more intrustive advertising online, as it's the only way this whole online world will work. (Intrusive advertising isn't limited to online, obviously; TV is just as bad.)

---
"My life is a patio of fun."<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#49 by "Jadawin"
2000-10-01 20:49:04
jadawin@wildmail.com
Heh, <a href="www.lumthemad.net">Lum the Mad</a>seems to have <a href="http://www.lumthemad.net/news/970428095,71790,.shtml">picked up this story</a>, with an interesting essay attached.
#50 by "Andy"
2000-10-01 20:50:44
andy@nospam.planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#48</b>, Steve Bauman:
<QUOTE>
Hiding? It's hardly hidden if it is available.
</QUOTE>
Oh jeez... why have <b>you</b> started doing this recently? (Note the bold.)

When I said "hiding", I didn't mean in in the sense of <i>let's hide it in a magazine so that nobody can find it</i>. I can't even work out how to explain what I meant, it's one of those phrases you "just know". You <i>do</i> know what I meant, right?

It's like if you saw a really good performance in an art-house movie, you might say "it's a shame such a good performance is hidden away in that film".

Please don't start doing this Steve. Half a second of extra thought and you'd have figured out what I meant, I'm sure.
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