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Where there's Crap, there's gold.....
September 28th 2000, 19:24 CEST by Darkseid-D

There are many things we encounter in life that prove absolute. No, we don't mean the very fine scandanavian vodka. It seems our illustrious host, has a bit of problem.....



Im sure our regular readers and contributors are aware that there are several 'admins' for PC. These include Uncle 'Mad Dog' Jeet, Andy 'Victim' Smith, Tom 'I is witty I is' Cleghorn, myself and some, who wish to remain...... furtive. I must give a shout out to Craig, creator and maintainer of the wonderful Crapspy.

This, Im sure you'll be glad to know is not what this little thread is about. No, its not me making a desperate effort to ensure Andy doesnt go on a thread creating rampage. Nor is it an attempt to 0wnz0r all the threads on the front page. Its to highlight an issue thats affecting Planetcrap.

Whilst you are aware of the various admins, some of you are seemingly unaware of the force that drives Planetcrap. That force resides in Germany (thats east of France for the geographically confused), meaning he consumes vast quantities of Bier and wienerschnitzelgruben, often simultaneously, dislikes belgians and believes the national football team isthe best in Europe (incorrectly). I am referring to Morn of course, he of terse comments and rare thread creation. Herein lies the problem, in order to maintain editorial control and, of course, legal protection Morn looks after the server and hosting arangements.

The problem, hosting PC, and his main project Developium, costs Morn money. Money, which at present, he is outlaying with little coming back in, due to his 'lack of being paid for anything resembling work' problem. I'm pretty sure you can understand that he simply can't afford to continue paying out for PC etc without some source of revenue. He's considering banner ads, non obtrusive of course, for the various sites to try and recoup some of his costs. We're not talking about huge amounts of money, $211 + traffic costs, for the hosting for the various sites Morn runs (like PC and Developium). But when your income is around Ramtins IQ (effectively zero).....

I know Morn isnt asking for charity or anything of the sort. But I know he's more than aware of the possible backlash he could get for putting banners on PC. So readers /posters / lurkers (hi Mat)/ flamebaits/ trolls. Why dont you express your feelings now, before the ads do appear. Are you in favour?> Are you against ? Can you suggest something else. This could well get me flamed by various people, I dont care, its better discussed now, rather than when(if) the banners appear.

Oh, in case you believe that using crapspy will block you from ads, think again. Craig is a very smart guy and coded some interesting features into CS. *little pinky to mouth*

Ds

Updated to reflect exact figure of $211 instead of $250 to keep various people happy. Also pointing out that its $211 + traffic for _all_ of Morns sites hosted there, not solely for PC.

C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Where there's Crap, there's gold.....

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#1 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-09-28 19:24:33
Darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.pcinformer.co.uk
Dont, even consider it.


Ds

ps, 0wned<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "Morn"
2000-09-28 19:30:56
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
I say down with Morn and his stupid website!

- Morn
#3 by "Illbuddha"
2000-09-28 19:34:43
colin_kawakami@bossgame.com http://www.bossgame.com/
For God's sake give us the banners. Anything to make the piece of shit server faster.

P.S. George Broussard is Fat
#4 by "RzE"
2000-09-28 19:39:09
rze@counter-strike.net http://csnation.counter-strike.net
most sites have ads, it's not really a big deal.. Americans are exposed to over 10,000 ads a day, the internet is a SMALL percentage of this..

good luck morn!
#5 by "-"
2000-09-28 19:42:14
-@-.com http://-
Do it.

This argument has been going on at the OMM forums. Well, ad blocking anyway.

My take is I enjoy reading PC and OMM - I'm happy to load their banners if they get paid for the hits and if this means they can continue going. Ads are so prevalent on sites nowdays that most of them pass me by - except that damn bouncing monkey. He's so pesky! I can't resist punching his simian ass.

My only argument against banners are that they'll ruin the sleek, clean, greyscale lines of the site.

Use monochrome banners and there's no problem.
#6 by "ynohtnA"
2000-09-28 19:45:35
ynohtna@ynohtna.org http://www.ynohtna.org/
Morn should show a venture capitalist PC's fantastic hit rate (I'm sure we could engineer another couple of Slashdottings), list of high-profile regular visitors (Derek Smart and his  huge ever-growing pulsating brain that rules from the centre of the ultraworld!), revision history (already up to version four!), associated software applications, notorious reputation (got its own trading card) et al...

and sell the pile of plop for 11 million dollars.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#7 by "Lucky"
2000-09-28 19:55:41
lucky@planetduke.com
7th!
#8 by "Chris Johnson"
2000-09-28 19:56:42
Hehehe... I love a topic as full of vitriol and bitterness as this one is, even if only in on-the-sly remarks.



And yes, go with the banners.  No big deal.
#9 by "ynohtnA"
2000-09-28 20:03:21
ynohtna@ynohtna.org http://www.ynohtna.org/
<b>#8</b> "Chris Johnson" wrote...
<QUOTE>Hehehe... I love a topic as full of vitriol and bitterness as this one is, even if only in on-the-sly remarks.</QUOTE>
Give it a chance - it's only up to eight posts. Lots more potential vitriol and bitterness to come...

<QUOTE>And yes, go with the banners. No big deal.</QUOTE>
Not even a tiny deal to those of us who read PC at work.

Maybe Morn should collect a profit percentage from those Crapper's who use PC to pimp their sites which do contain banners?
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "None-1a"
2000-09-28 20:06:37
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
Who cares, really what is the big deal, so there's an ad banner sitting around don't like the ad don't click it.

Ok if end up being that monkey I might be a little bit on the edge about it (any one else just want to hit that thing just to attempt to give it a black eye or something).
--
None-1a.

O forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#11 by "Reb Pizer"
2000-09-28 20:14:34
reb@entdepot.com http://www.entdepot.com
Go for it.  

It's not like anyone could really control the content of the site.
#12 by "Dragon"
2000-09-28 20:14:42
dragon@planetshogo.com
If it allows PC to stay up, I say do it. If it allows Andy to upgrade from his 486 to a Pentium-2(US spy cameras don't lie. :D ), I say do it.

Most of us get to see about a few trillion porno adds on voodooextreme so why not see the same thing here.

And could someone tell Apache to stop yelling "Put your ass into it!" ?
#13 by "asspennies"
2000-09-28 20:23:55
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org/
Honestly?  I'd rather pay $5-$10 for a subscription or something.  But I understand that this may not be feasible, so ads are the next best thing.

I haven't got a real problem with it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#14 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-09-28 20:27:31
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
I think at worst people might actually have some grounds for telling Andy he's just trying to get hits. Even then, I don't see any problem with putting a banner up. Only problems I ever have with banner ads are when the ad servers choke and slow the whole page down or when the stupid things are interspersed in the content to make sure no one can scroll them off the page while they're actually reading something informative.

-PainKilleR-[CE]
#15 by "Lumberjack"
2000-09-28 20:35:26
joek@pckconsult.com
How about give us a choice?  Either a) you could look at lovely advertisements, or b) you can pay a nominal subsrciption fee, not have to look at the ads, and be leet in the pc community!


----------------------
I used to be conceited, but now I am perfect.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#16 by "Jason Cross"
2000-09-28 20:35:48
Sure, put up banners. Put 'em at the top of the page where we can quickly and easily scroll down past them without ever taking notice.

I mean, sure PlanetCrap is just Usenet where only a half dozen people get to make new threads. But if it costs money, you have a right to try to recoup that money.

And if doing so through ads or whatever makes people not want to come to your site anymore, well, then obviously your site just wasn't good enough, was it?
#17 by "crash"
2000-09-28 20:38:40
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
put the ads in. and Craig, for CS, if you could, pls stick the slot in at the bottom like those AllAdvantage-style things do; i'm used to that. :)

---
Dave replies, "No. You are. I'm gonna set fire to the shed."
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#18 by "Lumberjack"
2000-09-28 20:40:39
joek@pckconsult.com
Oh and, I think a Morn deserves a big fat smooch on the lips from all of us for footing the bill for all of the entertainment this place has given

Thank you Morn!!!!!!


----------------------
I used to be conceited, but now I am perfect.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#19 by "Jafd"
2000-09-28 20:56:43
jafd@zombieworld.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
Better hop on the bandwagon while it still has wheels. I am still surprised that ad banners are actually a viable form of revenue; they sure as shit aren't a reliable form of advertising. The only thought that registers in my mind for the 0.0000065 seconds before my brain kicks in auto-shunt is raucuous laughter.

Er, oops... am I spoiling the fantasy for prospective advertisers? If you don't see the fnord it can't hurt you. Advertise on 'Crap! You'll get lots of (5) hits!
#20 by "Cuntessa"
2000-09-28 20:59:26
The_Nick_Burns@hotmail.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#Main Post</b> "Darkseid-D" wrote...
<QUOTE>before the ads do appear. </QUOTE>

There is NO money in banner ads, especially on a server with such low traffic, especially for all of us who use Crapspy.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#21 by "Cuntessa"
2000-09-28 21:01:21
The_Nick_Burns@hotmail.com http://www.planetcrap.com
21st!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#22 by "[KAG]formerly known as Seth"
2000-09-28 21:05:49
d_k_denz@hotmail.com http://www.aelk.org
<b>-</b> (#5):
<QUOTE>Use monochrome banners and there's no problem. </QUOTE>
I'll second that<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "Questar"
2000-09-28 21:18:01
Questar_1@hotmail.com
I wondered how PC got paid for if I used CS - I don't get the ads from the web site.

So, yeah, go for it.  Just keep it resonable - neon flashing covering half of my window will send me out of here.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#24 by "Questar"
2000-09-28 21:19:39
Questar_1@hotmail.com
Just read my post - Ugh!

Yes, English is my native language.  You just wouldn't know it from that post.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#25 by "SiliconVortex"
2000-09-28 21:20:33
siliconvortex@mailandnews.com
As an almost full time lurker, I think a subscription opt-out of banner ads would be cool too.  Of course it is a bunch of work to setup and maintain logins and tracking of payments (use PayPal or some other net service, easier on you, easier on us).  Then you can place ads inside every comment, driving everyone to subscribe.  After 2 months, drop the ads, and ride the subscriptions all the way to the candy store!
#26 by "Ghost in my Shell"
2000-09-28 21:29:51
As long as the ads dont become as annoying as some that were on the shack (ie: actual talking!)

"This is John Romero talking to you about drugs..."

Or ads that fill up the whole fucking page causing it to load like ass... see Voodoo Extreme
#27 by "Pacific"
2000-09-28 21:44:22
You mean some people don't like the Monkey ad ???? :)
Get them ads going Morn.
#28 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-09-28 22:12:19
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
morn, Darkseid, Craig: is it possible to have ads on PC and have ads in CrapSpy which could be turned off after you payed a subscription fee? Don't know how feasible this is, but if the subscription/purchase price is reasonable (below 50 US bucks), I would go for it.

As an alternative, go for pop-up banners (they pay alot) on the site and leave crapspy banner-free for the regular crappers. See whether it works or not (I don't know the actual number of hits on the websites, but if it is above 1000 unique visitors per day you'd have your hosting covered allright). Of course, selling out to eFront or some similar acquisition agency might work too :)

And to Andy - make a disclaimer that you get 0 cash from the ads. Would stop all of the (potential) bitching.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#29 by "^mortis^"
2000-09-28 22:15:42
mortis@goddamnindependent.com http://www.goddamnindependent.com
heck yeah...put up yer "punch the monkey" banners or "put your _____ in my hot ____, big guy" banners...

i'd much rather see PC-customized banners if at all possible...maybe a "punch Morn and win a prize" or "Click to play Blackjack with Andy!".

I *really* like those banner ads that pop up with the little red X. They are sleek and sexy. If you could run those, i'd be real happy.

^M^
#30 by "None-1a"
2000-09-28 22:19:32
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#29</b> "^mortis^" wrote...
<QUOTE>i'd much rather see PC-customized banners if at all possible...maybe a "punch Morn and win a prize" or "Click to play Blackjack with Andy!". </QUOTE>

Flop those around and you've got a ton of clicks :)
--
None-1a.

O forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "Paul"
2000-09-28 22:29:21
paul@shrinkweb.com http://www.shrinkweb.com
Like I told Morn before, add the ads!

But, I don't know the server stats, so you might have some trouble getting a good ad contract.

- Paul
#32 by "Craig"
2000-09-28 22:30:37
craigl@globalnet.co.uk http://www.planetcrap.com/crapspy/
<b>crash</b> (#17):
<QUOTE>put the ads in. and Craig, for CS, if you could, pls stick the slot in at the bottom like those AllAdvantage-style things do; i'm used to that. :)
</QUOTE>
That's already in CrapSpy, although it's not implemented perfectly in the last release. If you go to the View menu in the topics list, you'll see a Site Ads entry, if the script for the site you are viewing allows then you can hide the ads.

Here is a shot of the version I am working on.
<a href="http://www.planetcrap.com/crapspy/screen_b7.gif">http://www.planetcrap.com/crapspy/screen_b7.gif</a><I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Speed"
2000-09-28 22:37:23
speed@pandora.be http://fragland.net
I have no problems with the adds, just make sure your banners come from a reliable source that indeed PAY !
SomethingAwful's problems with Gamefan are just one example of all the crappy add-sellers that promise alot and pay hardly anything (talking out of experience)
One word of advise : don't go for the slick talk and "We're the best, we're the biggest". Go for a company that does nothing BUT sell ads (and acutally pay you your revenues).

Speed
Fragland.net
#34 by "crash"
2000-09-28 22:41:08
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Craig (#32): that's exactly what i was talking about. pure genius! :) thanks.

---
Dave replies, "No. You are. I'm gonna set fire to the shed."
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#35 by "Gestalt"
2000-09-28 22:50:16
john@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
"Derek Smart and his huge ever-growing pulsating brain that rules from the centre of the ultraworld"

Damn you! Now I have to go and listen to the Orb again... Oh yeah, ads, why not? Just make sure you're paid by banner impressions, and NOT click throughs. ;)
#36 by "None-1a"
2000-09-28 22:52:57
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#34</b> "crash" wrote...
<QUOTE>Craig (<A href="spy-internal:Load/158#32">#32</A>): that's exactly what i was talking about. pure genius! :) thanks. </QUOTE>

You know I sware Craig's reading our minds some how. Before the newest betas came out with the nice little tab I try poping in a DVD movie and spent the next few minuites trying to rezie the chat window so both where on screen at one time. Low and behold a few days latter Creig's in the chat showing images of the next beta with the tab (just the thing I was looking for). Now your thinking ads running along the bottom and he's got it running (and probably has for quite some time).

Craig for our security could you please remove the mind reading functions from new versions of crapspy thanks.


For the PC visitors that are lacking on the hummor areas of the brain the preceding was a joke (at lest I hope it is).
--
None-1a.

O forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#37 by "Craig"
2000-09-28 22:59:04
craigl@globalnet.co.uk http://www.planetcrap.com/crapspy/
<b>None-1a</b> (#36):
<QUOTE>Craig for our security could you please remove the mind reading functions from new versions of crapspy thanks.
</QUOTE>
Are you kidding? I'm gonna make a killing on patented CrapSpy thought protecting foil hats.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#38 by "Apache"
2000-09-28 22:59:50
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
just run an ad banner at the bottom fo the page, I don't give a shit.
#39 by "G-Man"
2000-09-28 22:59:57
jonmars@shiftlock.org http://www.shiftlock.org
I'd prefer an interstitial to an above the fold ad. But I am not adverse to buttons or block ads. Why not advertise on developium and leave planetcrap alone however? Planetcrap doesn't seem to get very much traffic at all, and you can't be seeing many impressions especially since each topic is loaded as a single page.

 - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#40 by "Apache"
2000-09-28 23:05:05
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
39 said:
<quote>Planetcrap doesn't seem to get very much traffic at all</quote>

hah, according to alexa Planet Crap gets more traffic than bluesnews :)
#41 by "shaithis"
2000-09-28 23:20:06
chrisb@gamespy.com http://www.gamespy.com
Yeesh,

If I were Morn, I woulda put up banner ads as soon as I hit 15 posts per topic. :)  By now, he's provided enough free content (or at least, the stimuli for that free contant) for all of us that we have no right to complain about a banner or two.

Bring 'em on, Morn.

-shai
(who agrees that monochrome banners would be excellent, but knows too much about the marketing world to see it ever happening)
#42 by "Dethstryk"
2000-09-28 23:20:55
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
I haven't read the entire thread yet, but I'm all for banner ads in support of PlanetCrap. Hell, I'd be willing to send Morn a certain amount every month out of the kindness of my heart to help him out.


--
Dethstryk
#43 by "Blood"
2000-09-28 23:21:13
blood@gamescon.com
I think you could decrease your bw usage in a big way by breaking up this post display page into lots of 30's or 50's even.  By breaking it up, you also get more ad loads, but that's just a good side effect.
#44 by "Apache"
2000-09-28 23:43:08
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
maybe instead of ad banners you could charge all the lurkers $19 a month to read the site. :)
#45 by "Foogla"
2000-09-28 23:45:35
Foogla@somethingawful.com
Put up whatever you want. Planetcrap is one of the fastest loading websites for me, it's a little unsettling to get from worldwidewaiting to warpspeed. ;) Oh, maybe I will turn my webfilter for PC off. Proxomitron 0wnz.
#46 by "kyLe"
2000-09-28 23:53:06
kle@lwmn.net
Valiant effort, quite commendable on all your staff's part.  I happen to be in a position to help keep those banners off yer sites.  To be perfectly honest, I'm not quite sure how this here CrapSpy works in it's entirity, I've only just recently begun using it, so slap my wrists if there's an easier method, but if you're at all interested, contact me at kyle@lwmn.net. sex0r, nice work.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#47 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-09-28 23:58:44
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
Post <b>#44</b> by Apache:
<QUOTE><i>maybe instead of ad banners you could charge all the lurkers $19 a month to read the site. :) </i></QUOTE>

Nah, better thing would be a troll penalty... Of, say, 100$ per incoherent trolling. Win-win scenario. No longer would people say "don't feed the trolls", rather they'd say "harvest the trolls, morn, here's some more troll food to keep 'em coming" ;)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "VeeSPIKE"
2000-09-29 00:03:35
appliedavoidanc@triton.net
I would not mind the ads, as long as the adserver he uses is not a dead stick. I hate it when pages refuse to load because the adserver is stuck. That having been said...


<b>#14</b> "PainKilleR-[CE]" wrote this stuff"
<QUOTE>I think at worst people might actually have some grounds for telling Andy he's just trying to get hits. </QUOTE>

They tell him that now, at least with the ads it might be true.

<b>#20</b> "Cuntessa" wrote this stuff"
<QUOTE>There is NO money in banner ads, especially on a server with such low traffic, especially for all of us who use Crapspy.</QUOTE>

But since CrapSpy is so heavily tied to IE, getting CrapSpy to display ads should not be a problem.




<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#49 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-09-29 00:07:48
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
<b>#48</b> "VeeSPIKE" wrote...
<QUOTE>They tell him that now, at least with the ads it might be true.
</QUOTE>

Is that not what I said, or are you just agreeing with me? ;

-PainKilleR-[CE]
#50 by "The Joker"
2000-09-29 00:23:40
joker@junkextreme.com http://www.junkextreme.com
Yeah, add the banners.

Joker.
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