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Collateral Damage? A tale of legitimate targets.....
September 9th 2000, 01:43 CEST by Darkseid-D

This months UK PcGamer highlights an interesting little issue with Soldier of Fortune, which may, or may not have something to do with its recent problems



'Soldier of fortune RACIST?', in nice big bold letters in this months (October) Uk PcGamer. The nitty gritty behind this story is this, In the first mission you are called to a subway hostage situation. If you run your crosshair over a hostile, it goes red, indicating a legitimate target. One you should dispatch forthwith with mighty vengence and furious wrath. If you run it over a hostage or bystander, it turns green indicating a non target, ie dont shoot them.

Should you exec.... um, accidently hit too many hostages/bystanders in the various firefights, game over man. Much like the NOLF demo restricts the number of civilian deaths (and a quite frankly ludicrous 'simian death toll' game over....), pop the wrong person and its start again time. This is fine, quite understandble, but heres where the odd thing occurs.

Later in the game you end up traversing a city in Iraq (as well as parts Bosnia and Africa in the game), and amazingly enough, there are civilians present. But, unlike the american civilians, the crosshair does not change colour to indicate a non target. You can also safely execute, Jackie Brown style, every last one of them and not be penalised.

So, is this suggesting, that Iraqi civilian lives are worth less than American ones? Since America and Iraq (hell Iraq and most of the western world) dont have what you would call a cordial relationship, is this a reasonable call. Even the tramps in the tunnels in the US levels are afforded protection. The civilians in the Iraq levels, dont harm 'John Mullins' in any way and are simply there as 'decoration'. Why not afford them the same 'protection'

With the game being censored in Canada due to 'its depictions of violence against persons and animals are brutal and portrayed realistically and explicitly' - Mary-Louise McCausland, the provincial director of film classifaction in Toronto. You have to wonder if this had anything to do with that decision. Was it a simple goof by Ravens designers and coders, an oversight or just something that slipped past control. I wont insult anyone here by implying that it was intentional. But its something that bears thinking about in game design in future.

C O M M E N T S
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#1 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-09-09 01:45:40
Darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.pcinformer.co.uk
Dont even think about it.


Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-09-09 01:46:25
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
That's actually sort of interesting ... I may have to play again.  I never noticed that.  :P
#3 by "Foogla"
2000-09-09 01:50:43
Foogla@somethingawful.com
Hmmm, a post mortem would be nice.
#4 by "Steven Clubb"
2000-09-09 01:56:14
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
I haven't played the full game yet (waiting for Gold version to come out), but it may have something to do with the nature of the first mission.  In that one, you're operating under the control of the NYPD, who don't want you blowing everyone away; otherwise, they'll put you in the prison cell.

Of course, I haven't played the full game, so I'm talking out of my ass--nothing new for me though :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#5 by "Frijoles"
2000-09-09 02:13:28
Perhaps the coders got lazy towards the end of the game.

Frij
#6 by "Steven Clubb"
2000-09-09 02:21:02
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#5</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "Frijoles" wrote:  
<QUOTE>Perhaps the coders got lazy towards the end of the game.
</QUOTE>

I thought about that, too.  The American mission was released as a demo, so they would make sure it worked the way it was supposed to.  Later missions wouldn't get the fine-tooth treatment.

Oh, who are we trying to fool--they're all racist bastards :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#7 by "Paul"
2000-09-09 02:30:13
paul@paulbullman.com http://www.paulbullman.com
Jackie Brown -- Very good movie. Not as good as Pulpfiction IMO, but still very good.

Racist? You gotta be kidding me. UK PcGamer is just trying to sell their junk.

------
Paul A. Bullman
Shrinkweb.com
#8 by "err head"
2000-09-09 02:33:46
err_head@yahoo.com
even it wasn't a simple matter of mission objectives differing in different missions, like the nypd reserving the right to slaughter innocent civilians for themselves and not their hired minions.
 or the fact that the long arm of the iraqi law barely reaches their borders, as compared with american law enforcement that walks over the rights of soverign nations with impunity

even if it were simple hatred of the iraqi people, it still wouldn't be racism

nationalism yes, racism no.  Unless they let you waste the cab drivers and convenience store clerks in american missions, it's not being racist.  They'd be saying that american lives are worth something, and iraqi lives are worth nothing (the official stance of the US government if I'm not mistaken).  no matter the race of the american or the iraqi. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#9 by "Ghost in my Shell"
2000-09-09 02:39:20
Heh, we have a story like this in Greensboro right now, a popular journalist who busts the ass of the government here finally ticked off one of the officials. This official said he would bust the reporters head in, so the reporter said go ahead and do it boy! Then the government official threw the chair at the official.


Now guess who is in trouble and getting the community whiplashing...


The reporter  ho is white for calling an official who happens to be black a "boy"...even though the official was throwing chairs to impose physical harm...

I swear I plan to move from this fucked up city...

Racism is the witchcraft of salems equivalent today...
#10 by "Journeyman"
2000-09-09 02:41:22
Maybe Raven didn┤t want to alienate their sponsor by suggesting that non-americans might be humans too.
On the other hand - #4 sounds a bit more reasonably :)
#11 by "flamethrower"
2000-09-09 02:50:52
flamethrower@barrysworld.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
It's just the Real World dudes.

A SOF, not that one would be hired to go, erm, 'go clean' in NYC, if they start shooting civs they are going to end up in jail on a murder wrap.

Not so in Kosovo, Iraq, or Africa, a civilian casualty almost certainly will not result in any kind of reproach or prosecution - it's unlikely anyone is ever going to know it was you. As JOHN MULLINS you are, of course, expected to work with professionalisim, and dare we say it -  humanity.


So how about instead of driving up a non-event VIRTUAL racist story, you pick one from the Real World, dude?

<a href="http://www.newsmax.com/commentmax/articles/Richard_Poe.shtml">http://www.newsmax.com/commentmax/articles/Richard_Poe.shtml</a>
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#12 by "bagofmice"
2000-09-09 03:16:53
rcastle@microsoft.com
It's an intentional thing in the game, commented upon in the code.
#13 by "superion"
2000-09-09 03:28:40
ho ho, flamethrower, that link hits home hard.

i guess you guys dont get that in england, since all your blacks are uncle toms, or goldie. (yes, thats sarcasm)
#14 by "BloodKnight"
2000-09-09 04:06:48
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
Another reason why this game has been pissed on by the government.  Yeah I noticed that when you played the game.  I kept killing the old IRAQ guys for the hell of it.  It COULD be racist since they did that

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#15 by "BarneyQue"
2000-09-09 04:09:00
barneyque@hotmail.com
Many, many apologies if this is common news or been posted here already.  I've not been able to keep up the last few days.

Also sorry for being offtopic.  

 
This is interesting though isnt it?  Even has many, many cheats for online games such as CS.


WHOIS www.cheatingplanet.com


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<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#16 by "BloodKnight"
2000-09-09 04:12:03
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
Just noticed that

just type in Counter Strike in the search, and BANG right under PC

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#17 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-09-09 04:26:44
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>flamethrower</b> (#11):
<QUOTE>So how about instead of driving up a non-event VIRTUAL racist story, you pick one from the Real World, dude?
</QUOTE>

Because this one involves games?  Heh.

And BTW, I like your explanation the best about this whole issue ...  :)

--

Warren Marshall - Professional Nuisance<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#18 by "EnergyMan"
2000-09-09 04:43:08
energy@texas.net http://www.filmwatcher.com
Interesting how I haven't seen a Kmart/Walmart thread on here yet. I guess
that was already done with the SoF vs. Canada thread. Blame Canada!! :D

Anyhow, I don't think this can be resolved unless you can get in each of the people's (in developement) heads. The only fact is that what is stated above
happens. How/why it got to be that way, we may never know.

---
This isn't a real sig.
#19 by "Apache"
2000-09-09 04:51:01
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
we need a "Kill Whitey" mod for Soldier of Fortune. ;)
#20 by "pol poindexter"
2000-09-09 05:29:26
backonthemap@hotmail.com
I'm merely a lurker, but I'd like to state for the record that the news story of a 'disregard' or Iraqi lives took place a few years back in the late 80s.  It was called the Gulf War.
#21 by "George Broussard"
2000-09-09 05:33:34
georgeb@3drealms.com
(SPOILER ALERT!!!!!) :)  REALLY.





















I'd rather talk about why the game wusses out and doesn't let me kill Saddam.  I don't know one person that got that far that wasn't dissapointed beyond belief that the mission wasn't to snipe his ass. ;)

George Broussard, 3D Realms
#22 by "Apache"
2000-09-09 06:11:54
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
George: Are you guys using that new <A HREF="http://www.dailyradar.com/features/game_feature_page_1444_1.html">UT tech</a>?
#23 by "Apache"
2000-09-09 06:12:38
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
ps- I wanted to snipe Saddam too.
#24 by "Randomly Generated Nonsense"
2000-09-09 06:14:53
stephenc@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com
If there were any Iraqi killings going on in the late 80's, then it would be the Iranians doing it, as the Iran-Iraq war ended sometime in '88.

The "Gulf War" was a six week period at the beginning of '91.
#25 by "JMCDaveL"
2000-09-09 06:27:54
lachney@ebicom.net
Oh dear god not a Kmart thread, then I'd be morally obligated to read the whole goddamn thing and correct all the errors since I actually have the pleasure of working at a Kmart.


--jmc
Hail to the King, Baby
#26 by "Ian"
2000-09-09 07:05:51
Ahem: Dear flamethrower: Although most blacks agreed with the writer, they agreed for different reasons. I think the author has his logic all topsy-turvy like yet somehow came to the same conclusion: racism. I've read this story before, in Time magazine: an article on how a serial killer was murdering little girls in Harlem without so much as a peek from the media. The theory was that whites only cared about violence when there are whites involved. Poe sees the same thing happening at his newspaper:

  <quote>
I learned this lesson as a reporter at the New York Post. Four to six murders a day used to come in over the police wire. Most involved blacks or Hispanics killing each other over drugs or domestic squabbles. We were told not to waste time on them. But if a white person killed someone, we sprang into action.
  </quote>

Yet draws the opposite conclusion:

  <quote>
At the time, I assumed that we focused on white violence simply because it was rare. But I am no longer so sure. The current barrage of "hate crime" coverage reveals a stark double standard.
  </quote>

Worse yet, he takes a racially charged incident that got major coverage in the media:

  <quote>
Remember the Central Park "wildings" in June? Many TV stations soft-pedaled the event by showing videos of black and Hispanic teen-age girls smiling and giggling, as they fended off the attentions of rowdy boys.
  </quote>

And glosses it over. Major articles in Time Magazine and both major newspapers where I live viewed this incident extremely harshly. He goes on to claim that video that is <b>pornographic</b> isn't shown on TV because of reverse racism, not because of the naked women being raped (A situation not allowed to be shown on TV if it were a work of fiction, why should it be if it's a recording of a live event?)

He then goes on to make a claim in this paragraph

  <quote>
The media tell us that "hate crime" is out of control. And so it is. But most of its victims are white. Department of Justice statistics show that black-on-white attacks constitute 85 percent of all interracial violence.
  </quote>

That just because a violent act is perpetrated on someone of a different skin colour or creed, it automatically becomes a hate crime, a grossly untrue accusation. Just because a black man steals a white mans wallet doesn't mean he's a racist. It means he's a thief.

Bah. I hate how white males feel so hard done by. Like the brotha man said in the classic "Lean on Me": If you fail, don't blame it on <b>The [Black] Man</b>! Blame it on yourself!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#27 by "Steven Clubb"
2000-09-09 07:15:29
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#26</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "Ian" wrote:  
<QUOTE>That just because a violent act is perpetrated on someone of a different skin colour or creed, it automatically becomes a hate crime, a grossly untrue accusation. Just because a black man steals a white mans wallet doesn't mean he's a racist. It means he's a thief.
</QUOTE>

To be honest, I don't quite understand the hate crime legislation, with the exception of the federal ones, which are used as legal double jeopardy to prevent a racist state court from glossing over crimes against minorities--not that anything *ahem* like that ever happened in the South during the Civil Rights Movement.

The base crime is already illegal (it's not like rape is legal as long as it's done out of love), and the judge and/or jury can inflict a harsher penalty based on the motive.  So, why is it such a big deal that X number of states don't have hate crime legislation.

Bah, it's just bullshit PC posturing IMO.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#28 by "Paul"
2000-09-09 07:23:10
paul@paulbullman.com http://www.paulbullman.com
Steve Clubb:

I totally agree. Hate crimes were probably passed so people could look get during election cycles.

If someone commits a crime against someone else they should be held accountable at the same level no matter what the person's skin/gender happened to be.

------
Paul A. Bullman
Shrinkweb.com
#29 by "Ian"
2000-09-09 07:28:44
Lets see, if you kill someone because you don't like their hat, you get life. Unless said hat is a yarmulke, then you get the death penalty. If you kill someone because you don't like their clothes, you get life. Unless said clothes are vestigial robes, then you get the death penalty. If you kill someone because you don't like their necklace, you get life. Unless said necklace has a cross on the end of it, then you get the death penalty. If you kill someone because they said "HL DAETHMACH SuXoRS!!!! YUO == #1FAG", you get life. If you kill someone because they said "Praise Allah", you get the death penalty.

Makes sense to me!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#30 by "George Broussard"
2000-09-09 07:33:23
georgeb@3drealms.com
Apache,

<quote>George: Are you guys using that new UT tech? </quote>

No.  We've had skeletal motion capture and facial animations for over a year ;)

We're not doing 40 bones in the face, but then again, you aren't going to see a game from Epic that does that inside of 2 years either.

Still, nice looking stuff.  But it's all de to a high end card like the GeForce 2.  Those things can really crank our the poly's.

I expect ALL games going forward that will be released Xmas 2001 or later to look that good or better.  With the current and coming card tech, it's essentially free.

George Broussard, 3D Realms
#31 by "Steven Clubb"
2000-09-09 07:36:32
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
You can also add:

If you kill a guy because you don't like his date, you get life. If his date is another guy, you fry.

I don't have a problem with the motives behind a crime being used in the penalty portion of the trial--I just dislike the whole notion that we have to add these stupid, meaningless laws to appease certain voting blocks.  I guess they "feel" so much better now that it's illegal to kill or beat up a gay guy or a black guy or a woman.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#32 by "Lumberjack"
2000-09-09 07:52:41
joek@pckconsult.com
Holy shit that stuff looks good.....mmmmmm....I want it now....I'd love to play ctf on that terrain.....


----------------------
I used to be conceited, but now I am perfect.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Apache"
2000-09-09 09:07:53
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
The new link for the Unreal Tech Goodies is now <A HREF="http://www.voodooextreme.com/article.taf?articleID=121">here</a>. :-)
#34 by "Šther"
2000-09-09 09:16:50
mrklp@hotmail.com
SOF was never "censored" in Canada.  Realisticly violent video games were just put under the same system as mature movies, meaning you have to be of a certain age to purchase any game with a certain level of violence as defined by the same body that assigns PG ratings to movies.

As far as I know, this is only being done in British Columbia.
#35 by "Andy"
2000-09-09 10:57:49
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
Good topic, good question.

I'd put it down to something that Americans don't seem to realise, but people outside American can see quite clearly: America -- as individuals and as a country -- sees other countries as "other countries", not the rest of the world.

So I don't think the Raven guys <b>thought</b> (note the emphasis) "people in other countries don't matter", I think that's just a subconscious belief that many Americans are raised with. It's a sort of in-bred un-thinking racism, for want of a better word.

But then, we all have our prejudices, don't we? And we don't see them as prejudices, because they're our own. Take the topic for instance...
<quote>
So, is this suggesting, that Iraqi civilian lives are worth less than American ones? Since America and Iraq (hell Iraq and most of the western world) dont have what you would call a cordial relationship, is this a reasonable call. <b>Even the tramps in the tunnels in the US levels are afforded protection.</b> The civilians in the Iraq levels, dont harm 'John Mullins' in any way and are simply there as 'decoration'. Why not afford them the same 'protection'
</quote>
Why "<b>even</b> the tramps"? Are tramps less important than people with money?

(Now let's see someone jump and say "<i>yes, hehe</i>", trying to trick us all into believing they have a personality.)
#36 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-09-09 11:14:51
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
Post <b>#35</b> by Andy:
<QUOTE><i>
Why "<B>even</B> the tramps"? Are tramps less important than people with money?

(Now let's see someone jump and say "<I>yes, hehe</I>", trying to trick us all into believing they have a personality.)
</i></QUOTE>

Yes, call me what you will but I always thought that. Of course, they should be equal from the *law* point of view, but I, though I feel sorry for them, still think that they don't try hard enough to get themselves out of where they ended up. Trust me, I was interested in how these people live and talked with some of them. They, for the most part, are just lazy (I am not talking about handicapped, it is completely different). They decided to live as parasites in the society, and they don't have same respect from me as a hard working and professional men.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#37 by "Jeremy"
2000-09-09 11:32:07
jnthornh@eos.ncsu.edu
<b>#31</b> "Steven Clubb" wrote...
<QUOTE>I don't have a problem with the motives behind a crime being used in the penalty portion of the trial--I just dislike the whole notion that we have to add these stupid, meaningless laws to appease certain voting blocks. I guess they "feel" so much better now that it's illegal to kill or beat up a gay guy or a black guy or a woman.</QUOTE>
Agreed.

The whole idea that it can become somehow "more illegal" to kill somebody for <i>any</i> reason just seems bizarre to me.

As to the actual topic... assuming the information is correct, either they did this on purpose for some agenda, they did it as part of the gameplay, or they simply made a mistake.  Having not played the game, I can't really say; but it just seems very unlikely to me that a game would be released with the aim to imply that it's cool to kill Iraqis.

<b>#35</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>America -- as individuals and as a country -- sees other countries as "other countries", not the rest of the world.
So I don't think the Raven guys thought (note the emphasis) "people in other countries don't matter", I think that's just a subconscious belief that many Americans are raised with. It's a sort of in-bred un-thinking racism, for want of a better word. </QUOTE>
So you think that I count your life as worth less than mine, because I'm American?

A life is a life.  No matter where it is, no matter who it is, no matter what skin color or nationality, nobody is ever <i>less important</i> than anybody else in that regard.

I fail to see how anybody could truly believe that Amemricans have so little regard for human life.  Andy, the thought of anybody promoting murder in any way against anybody is no less repulsive to myself (or most of my fellow cold, isolationist American bastards) than it is to you.

Jeremy
--
Despite your efforts to be a romantic hero, you will gradually evolve into a postmodern plot device. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#38 by "Jafd"
2000-09-09 12:59:26
jafd@zombieworld.com http://jafd.isfuckingbrilliant.com
And, to point out an even greater inconsistency and insanity in "hate crime" legistlation; the death penalty is supposedly more punishment than life in prison? No Fucking Way. Put a bullet in my head before locking me in a room.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#39 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-09-09 13:23:01
Darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.pcinformer.co.uk
the point about the tramps was ....

theyre in the tunnels lurking, and _not_ held hostage directly.....

Course this could be a nod to the New York Mayor (Rudi Galliano?) who has a zero tolerance for those on the streets and has them arrested and moved on (forcibly).



oh btw, before anyone makes further ad hominem attacks, the thread wasnt purely about racism. It was about several things, one being PCGamer leading with this, about how things carry over in games, how things are taken, and how easy it is to miss things.

I dated a Black girl for a few months in university (black population in N.I is around 1% if even that).  I got more grief because she was RC, than for her skin colour, that should tell you how fucked up Nothern Ireland society is.

Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#40 by "flamethrower"
2000-09-09 13:33:08
flamethrower@barrysworld.com http://www.portalofevil.com
Ian

<quote>creed, it automatically becomes a hate crime, a grossly untrue accusation. Just because a black man steals a white mans wallet doesn't mean he's a racist. It means he's a thief. </quote>


Agreed. HOWEVER, we're not talking about dollar-pinchers. We're talking about violent interracial crime involving torture, sexual assault, muilation, and execution-style murders.

If two white college students had have captured two black males, beat them, robbed the, forced them to perform oral sex on each other, and then shot in the head with .44 pistols, and they were to go on trail next month I can absolutely guarantee you that you would know their names already. It would be headlines, in America, probably further afield.

Black kills white, crime.

White kills black, race hate crime.

Read any media, only white people, only Anglo Saxon white people, are ever racists.
#41 by "Johan"
2000-09-09 13:35:59
johan@innerloop.no
Interesting topic. I'm inclined to agree with Andy on this one. No, I don't think all Americans are heartless bastards, that's clearly not the case. However, it seems plausible to me that American society as a whole has been slowly doctrinated over time with disregard for non-American life.
 
Why? Politics. It's much easier to blow up a third-world country and grab their natural resources if mr. Joe Public doesn't care.

And this is the very same country that hates my country (Norway) for killing whales. The hypocrisy is staggering.

PS no disrespect intended to Americans.

-Johan
#42 by "Andy"
2000-09-09 13:49:10
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#39</b>, Darkseid-[D!]:
<QUOTE>
I dated a Black girl for a few months in university (black population in N.I is around 1% if even that). I got more grief because she was RC, than for her skin colour, that should tell you how fucked up Nothern Ireland society is.
</QUOTE>
It would have been less fucked up if you'd been given grief for dating a black girl?

And I have to point out that you capitalised Black. The little things say so much about what a person is thinking. :-)

I'm not implying anything bad by that.
#43 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-09-09 13:58:20
Darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.pcinformer.co.uk
Andy. Youll also note I capitalised RC.

your point is ?


must be a fucked up thought process, as I would have capitalised White, or Japanese, or Chinese, or Indian ...  Had I said, Negro girl I'd have been swarmed by 'you cant say that, its racist' people in a heartbeat.

respect and demarkation for the persons colour, nothing more sinister mate.


oh and we had a blast when we were going out, was fun, didnt last due to various .... outside influences.

Ds


<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#44 by "Andy"
2000-09-09 14:09:47
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#43</b>, Darkseid-[D!]:
<QUOTE>
must be a fucked up thought process, as I would have capitalised White, or Japanese, or Chinese, or Indian ... Had I said, Negro girl I'd have been swarmed by 'you cant say that, its racist' people in a heartbeat.
</QUOTE>
Hey I'm not trying to start anything about this, but Roman Catholic, Japanese, Chinese and Indian <i>should</i> all be capitalised. But black and white shouldn't... they're just adjectives, not religions or nationalities.

This is what I was getting at: If I were to say "black girl", all I'd be meaning was a girl whose skin was black. But by capitalising Black, it was as if you were defining her in that way, as if being black was more significant than I personally (and I assume you too, having dated her) believe it is.

Basically, I see "Black girl" and "black girl" as two different things. That's all. :-)
#45 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-09-09 14:27:15
Darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.pcinformer.co.uk
On a completely seperate note


the PCG DVD has they hunger 2 on it ... and it refuses to install.

and browsing the dvd .. plenty of folders, but no visible files at all.


GAKK, thats royally pissed me off, the only reason I bought the mag was for They Hunger 2.


wonder is the dvd screwed up, or have they put some protection bullshit on there (and if so, anyone know how to get round it)

better yet .. anyone know where I can snag a copy of TH2 ?


Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#46 by "Nemesis"
2000-09-09 14:43:54
Nemesis@planethalflife.com
<b>Darkseid-[D!]</b> (#45):
<QUOTE>On a completely seperate note


the PCG DVD has they hunger 2 on it ... and it refuses to install.

and browsing the dvd .. plenty of folders, but no visible files at all.


GAKK, thats royally pissed me off, the only reason I bought the mag was for They Hunger 2.


wonder is the dvd screwed up, or have they put some protection bullshit on there (and if so, anyone know how to get round it)

better yet .. anyone know where I can snag a copy of TH2 ?


Ds</QUOTE>

Are you using Win 2k as PC Gamer DVD's will not run under 2K on my machine at all i've just re-installed 98 and they run fine.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#47 by "Konrad"
2000-09-09 15:24:23
In regards to this racism thing, I'd like to believe it was just a gameplay balancing decision. I mean, it's pretty difficult not to hit a couple of those towel heads. However Andy's theory of unthinking racism (institutionalised?) is sort of born out by <a href="http://www.icecreamvan.com/archive/issue17.html">this</a> Raven quote on the issue: "We did not single out any group of people or any nation intentionally."

And while I'm pulling stuff out of ass I'll say that I'm surprised the <a href="http://www.webcorpgames.com/dukepress.html">3D Realms eposodic deal</a> hasn't been mentioned. Or did I miss it?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "lechifre"
2000-09-09 16:38:27
lechifre@btinternet.com
I don't see that there's a topic worthy of discussion here. So what if we're encouraged to kill Iraqis, that's good isn't it? The sooner we teach those towel heads to stay in the trenches where God fearing American Soldier can bury them with armoured bulldozers ( death and burial in one efficient maneouvre, but not necessarily in that order ) the better. I think the developers deserve a medal for aproaching such potentially awkward pinko liberal issue is such a down to earth and practical manner.

Go USA!
#49 by "Russ"
2000-09-09 16:45:36
rthcowboy@mindspring.com
Good topic. Everyone thank Darkseid for posting a topic before Andy could get in his fourteenth in a row.

PC Gamer is just trying to generate sales. This is probably a pretty sound method to generate them. Perhaps not very ethical, but as long as the cash register is ringing...

I haven't played the game. The focus on realistic gore was pretty much a turnoff. However, calling it racist is stretching it. Callous for sure, but if you aren't actually <i>encouraged</i> to kill Iraqi civilians, then it isn't really racist.
<b>#12</b> "bagofmice" wrote...
<QUOTE>It's an intentional thing in the game, commented upon in the code. </QUOTE>
Would you care to post the comments here, so we can all see what they said?
<b>#41</b> "Johan" wrote...
<QUOTE>And this is the very same country that hates my country (Norway) for killing whales. The hypocrisy is staggering.

</QUOTE>
Do you even know any Americans? Here's what I think. Probably 30-40% of Americans don't even know what or where Norway is. Of the remainder, maybe 1-2% have a strong dislike or hatred for Norway, Japan, etc for whaling. I don't know how you developed the idea that the USA hates your country for whaling. I suspect it is by seeing a vocal minority on CNN or other media protesting against whaling. In any case, it is incorrect.
 <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#50 by "Darkseid-[D!]"
2000-09-09 16:45:51
Darkseid-d@planetcrap.com http://www.pcinformer.co.uk
one can only pray #48 was made tongue in cheek.....


if not ...


/me reaches for the plonk button




Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
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