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Molehill. Molehill. Molehill. Happy?
September 6th 2000, 13:08 CEST by andy

Now, I know I'm not allowed to talk about 3DRealms -- after all, this is a games forum -- but this story about Big Brother being sued jumped out at me and I thought you girls might want to read it too.



Apparently the man who owns the film rights to 1984 (the novel, not the year) is suing CBS, the producers of Big Brother in the States, for copyright infringement. According to the BBC story, he claims that CBS "intentionally created a programme that viewers will think is connected to or approved by the owners of the copyright to the novel".

This has an obvious relevance to 3DRealms' use of the "Hail To The King" line in Duke games. For those who haven't been following at home, the line originally featured in the Evil Dead films, and was then 'borrowed' several years later by Duke. It became a Duke catchphrase, and 3DRealms have since decided that they had "first use" of the line and can therefore trademark it. They've even gone so far as to challenge the current trademark, held by THQ, the company making an official Evil Dead game. Bruce Campbell, the cult hero who originally used the line in Evil Dead, describes 3DRealms as "rip-off artists".

So are the two situations comparable? Yes and no.

Big Brother is a major character of sorts in 1984 whereas "Hail To The King" was only one line in Evil Dead. But then, Big Brother is used as the actual title of the TV show and "Hail To The King" was only used as a line in Duke. So I'd say there's a parallel in that regard.

However, the owner of the 1984 film rights has made the (questionable) claim that CBS wanted viewers to believe the Big Brother show had some official connection to the book, whereas 3DRealms have never suggested that Duke is connected to Evil Dead in any way.

My point? None. It's news, I'm posting it. But... what the hell is this?

C O M M E N T S
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#1 by "ynohtnA"
2000-09-06 13:10:22
ynohtna@ynohtna.org http://www.ynohtna.org/
Thirst.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "Andy"
2000-09-06 13:11:25
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
now/not

I am Typo Boy, ph34r me.
#3 by "Dethstryk"
2000-09-06 13:22:03
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
Captain Planet!

Man, there was something about that show. Captain Planet himself seemed strongly homosexual, and so did the little Asian boy who had the "Heart" ring. Man, I can go on and on about this..


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#4 by "ynohtnA"
2000-09-06 13:24:03
ynohtna@ynohtna.org http://www.ynohtna.org/
<b>#Main Post</b> "andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>Apparently the man who owns the film rights to 1984 (the novel, not the year) is suing CBS, the producers of Big Brother in the States, for copyright infringement.</QUOTE>
Surely it should be Orwell's estate that would sue? The Big Brother character is more strongly connected to the book than the   movie...

Or maybe not - literature is an antiquated concept these days.

<i>"Do you read much?"
"What, you mean books?"</i>

<QUOTE>But then, the owner of the 1984 film rights has made the (questionable) claim that CBS wanted viewers to believe the Big Brother show had some official connection to the book</QUOTE>
It's a very questionable claim, as it can be argued that the term `Big Brother' has become a cultural concept denoting draconian population control and surveillance. Concepts can't be copyrighted.

<QUOTE>But... <A href="http://www.turner.com/planet/duke.html">what the hell is this?</A></QUOTE>
Yay, Dean Stockwell.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#5 by "Andy"
2000-09-06 13:28:00
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#4</b>, ynohtnA:
<QUOTE>
It's a very questionable claim, as it can be argued that the term `Big Brother' has become a cultural concept denoting draconian population control and surveillance. Concepts can't be copyrighted.
</QUOTE>
Exactly what I was thinking.

Although one of the show's producers named his company Orwell Productions.
#6 by "Chella Kline"
2000-09-06 13:34:16
There are Girls here?
#7 by "Steven Clubb"
2000-09-06 13:49:00
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#4</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "ynohtnA" wrote:  
<QUOTE>It's a very questionable claim, as it can be argued that the term `Big Brother' has become a cultural concept denoting draconian population control and surveillance. Concepts can't be copyrighted. </QUOTE>

My thoughts exactly.

"Big Brother" has long-ago become a generic cultural term divorced from the original source material.  To put forth the notion that Americans believe the show is endorsed by the current copyright holders of 1984 is ridiculous, as I'd wager the majority of Americans don't even know Big Brother was originally from 1984.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#8 by "Dethstryk"
2000-09-06 13:57:22
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Steven Clubb wrote in post #7:</b>
<quote>I'd wager the majority of Americans don't even know Big Brother was originally from 1984.</quote>
I certainly don't.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#9 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-09-06 14:01:46
tc10@spammegoonidareya.st-andrews.ac.uk http://www.fisty.com/~tom/
What he said :)
I'd be horrified if the Big Brother suit is successful. It's the same situation as with the word 'hoover' - originally a trademark, but now a part of the language. Of course, this is all going on in America, so this tit'll probably win, and be awarded millions of dollars' compensation for injury to emotional well-being, to boot.
As for the 3dr/Duke Nukem thing... heh, I'd always been sure I'd heard of Duke Nukem before the games appeared. Now I know :) I'll be curious to hear what Messrs. Broussard and Miller have to say about this...
#10 by "asspennies"
2000-09-06 14:03:47
asspennies@coredump.org http://www.coredump.org
<b>#9</b> "Tom Cleghorn" wrote...
<QUOTE>
As for the 3dr/Duke Nukem thing... heh, I'd always been sure I'd heard of Duke Nukem before the games appeared. Now I know :) I'll be curious to hear what Messrs. Broussard and Miller have to say about this... </QUOTE>

I seem to remember those Duke Nukem platform games coming out before Captain Planet.  I may be wrong, of course, and I'm certainly in no mood to research :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#11 by "Bert Halligan"
2000-09-06 14:03:48
shane.gleeson@upm-kymmene.com
Which came first Duke Nukem or Duke Nukem.
#12 by "Andy"
2000-09-06 14:07:34
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#9</b>, Tom Cleghorn:
<QUOTE>
What he said :)
I'd be horrified if the Big Brother suit is successful. It's the same situation as with the word 'hoover' - originally a trademark, but now a part of the language.
</QUOTE>
Yeah, but another company shouldn't be able to create vacuum cleaners called "Hoovers". It's <i>still</i> a brand name.

Agreed on the BB suit though.
#13 by "deadlock"
2000-09-06 14:44:43
deadlock@eircom.net
<quote>but another company shouldn't be able to create vacuum cleaners called "Hoovers".</quote>

But could i create a documentary about blowjob techniques called hoovers ?? this would be more analogous to the Big Brother/1984 thing.

deadlock
#14 by "deadlock"
2000-09-06 14:51:39
deadlock@eircom.net
With regard to the Duke Nukem query, I did a search on IMDB and cam up with <a href="http://us.imdb.com/Title?0098763">this</a>. Captain Planet dates from 1990, as you can see. According to 3DRealms own site, <a href="http://www.3drealms.com/games.html">here</a>, Duke Nukem I version 2.0 came out in 1991 (Scroll the page down until you reach the older games section). So, unless version 1 came out in 1990, then it would appear that Captain Planet had the drop on 3Drealms.

deadlock
#15 by "[@~]MizuGami"
2000-09-06 14:55:20
mizugami@rochester.rr.com http://www.komatose.com
Steven Clubb #7 said:

<b>"Big Brother" has long-ago become a generic cultural term divorced from the original source material."</b>


Agreed. It's like when someone goes to make a photocopy, they usually say that they are going to make a "XEROX" of something. It's become such common usage that Xerox would have a hard time defending it in court.

DNF, on the other hand, may have a hard time with <i>The Evil Dead's</i> creators when it comes to that phrase. Had there not been a game about the movie being produced, I think it would have been a moot point. I'd be interested to hear Mr. Broussard's take on this situation.

BTW, how is it that some people are able to put what others have said in a red font? I tried putting a HTML tag that would make the font red, but when I previewed it, it still was black. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[@~]MizuGami <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#16 by "Andy"
2000-09-06 14:57:48
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#15</b>, [@~]MizuGami:
<QUOTE>
BTW, how is it that some people are able to put what others have said in a red font? I tried putting a HTML tag that would make the font red, but when I previewed it, it still was black. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
</QUOTE>
You need to use quote tags, like this:

<QUOTE>
This is where the quoted text goes.
</QUOTE>
#17 by "^mortis^"
2000-09-06 14:58:13
mortis@goddamnindependent.com http://www.goddamnindependent.com
as far as Big Brother's concerned, i'm hoping that reality-based TV will go the way of the DoDo here shortly.  With any luck, by the time the Big Brother Suit goes to trial, most Americans will be going "oh YEAH, i remember that stupid show...who cares?!"

Where Duke Nukem is concerned, i'm on Bruce's side...and i seem to remember more than just ONE familiar quote coming out of his pixelated mouth.
'Hail to the King' was just one of the most obvious. (to anyone who'd seen Evil Dead...)

^M^
#18 by "[@~]MizuGami"
2000-09-06 14:58:40
mizugami@rochester.rr.com http://www.komatose.com
Thanks Andy =)

[@~]Mizu<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#19 by "Steven Clubb"
2000-09-06 15:02:48
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#15</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "[@~]MizuGami" wrote:  
<QUOTE>Agreed. It's like when someone goes to make a photocopy, they usually say that they are going to make a "XEROX" of something. It's become such common usage that Xerox would have a hard time defending it in court.

DNF, on the other hand, may have a hard time with <I>The Evil Dead's</I> creators when it comes to that phrase. Had there not been a game about the movie being produced, I think it would have been a moot point. I'd be interested to hear Mr. Broussard's take on this situation.
</QUOTE>

Another difference in my mind is that George Orwell has been dead for 50 years, and it is simply the vultures of his estate continuing to feed on his genius.  In my mind, I think the copyright should expire shortly after the death of the writer and spouse.  I add spouse because I believe marriage akin to a business arrangement, and the spouse has a claim to the material as a source of future income--the children have no real claim in my mind.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#20 by "deadlock"
2000-09-06 15:05:38
deadlock@eircom.net
I think Andy pretty much opened and closed this one anyway, when he pointed out that Big Brother is a major character/plot device in 1984, whereas 'Hail to the King' is just one line in a film. Hardly the same scale really, is it ?

In both cases, though, the thing (for want of a better word) is being used reverentially - Duke's use of 'hail...' is obviously a reference to the Ash character, while the production company's use of the term Big Brother is an explicit reference to the 1984 character/concept.

I agree that the concept of Big Brother has entered the public psyche on a scale far greater than the original book ever did. But even so, surely the concept behind the BB TV show would make the show's use of the term legitimate and serve to cover it under the tribute clause that exists in copyright law ??

deadlock
#21 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-09-06 15:10:49
Sgt_Hulka@Hulka.com http://www.hulka.com
This lawsuit is lame, but most are.  It's a grab for cash by the Orwell family, or whoever owns the right to that book, that's about it.

I would like to sit here and say this case doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning, but then again, OJ walked. McDonalds paid for a burnt coochie.  The Gov'ment sued and won against the evil Big Tobacco bastards.  Soon, I have a feeling the great computer game makers of today will be paying for the prescriptions Gore is promising our seasoned citizens.  Why do I think that?  I think the government is going to do the same thing to the videogame industry that it has done to the tobacco industry and microsoft.  

I've actually been watching the show for the last few weeks. It's an interesting social experiment and it's quite funny at times.  Real people, real emotions, and sometimes real fun to watch.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#22 by "Steven Clubb"
2000-09-06 15:19:27
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#21</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "Sgt Hulka" wrote:  
<QUOTE>I've actually been watching the show for the last few weeks. It's an interesting social experiment and it's quite funny at times. Real people, real emotions, and sometimes real fun to watch. </QUOTE>

I find it funnier to watch the reactions of Big Brother & CBS.  Overtly, they claim to be doing what's in the best interests of the house-guests; but with it being a boring love-fest, they've been going out of their way to try to spur conflict among them.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "[@~]MizuGami"
2000-09-06 15:28:55
mizugami@rochester.rr.com http://www.komatose.com
Deadlock #20:
<Quote>I agree that the concept of Big Brother has entered the public psyche on a scale far greater than the original book ever did.</Quote>

It's true, but a sad reminder of how far our society has sunk. People would rather sit on their dead asses and watch a crappy TV show than to sit down and read a classic book.

<quote>But even so, surely the concept behind the BB TV show would make the show's use of the term legitimate and serve to cover it under the tribute clause that exists in copyright law ??</Quote>

I have taken a class in media law, and I believe that the BB show is different enough that it will escape any legal problems. Of course, if all else fails, the BB lawyers could just pass off BB as parody and they'd easily get away with it. ;)

[@~]MizuGami

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#24 by "mcgrew"
2000-09-06 15:38:27
mcgrew@famvid.com http://theFragfest.com
First, if there are any typos i don't care i'm sick as a dog, im only at the pc because i cant lay down

Now, before we get on topic, I just wanted to p1mp "The Joker's" page at
http://www.junkextreme.com/
and somebody please mail me the url of the thread where somebody gave him hell for self promotion, I can't find any non-boring nooze and want to make fun of planet crap.

But I wouldn't want anybody to actually SEE it once it's done, so the three of you who haven't been there and the thirty who refuse to go back on general principles, ;p

Oh, yeah, there was a topic? Besides th fact that I feel like total shit?

Oh, somebody's suing a giant, super rich corporation for "stealing" an idea? His fucking GRANDPA wrote a five hundred page story and he's suing for TWO GODDAMNED WORDS?? WTF?

I should be on his side, I have a registered ISBN and kids to leave a legacy to (if I had a legacy), but copyright was invented shortly after the USA was (by the same ppl) to spread ideas, not contain them. IMO there should be a 75 year limit on copyrights.

But hell, even if Seth Kreig were to sue CBS or any other multinational corporation I'd root for him. MNCs are taking away ALL sovereignty. You no longer need live in Britain to rule her; you can be a scandanavian, an Australian, or even a Yank. All you need is control of the right boards of directors and your PM and botrh houses are at your beck anbd call. The same goes for our politicos over here, or in any country.

Gold rules

damn, crapspy wont work either
#25 by "mcgrew"
2000-09-06 16:01:20
mcgrew@famvid.com http://theFragfest.com
[4] ynohtnA "But... what the hell is this?"

It looks like something to keep 3DR's trademark lawyers busy.

Oh, BTW, don't miss s'ynothnA new page at http://www.ynohtna.org/ (dude, you should have mailed me with the url)

[6] Chella Kline "There are Girls here?"

There are now!

[14] deadlock "With regard to the Duke Nukem query, I did a search on IMDB and came up with this. Captain Planet dates from 1990, as you can see.  According to 3DRealms own site, here, Duke Nukem I version 2.0 came out in 1991..."

DN1 was out for quite a while before DN2. It may have been 1987 or earlier, but certainly before 1990. George?

[15] [@~]MizuGami "It's like when someone goes to make a photocopy, they usually say that they are going to make a "XEROX" of something. It's become such common usage that Xerox would have a hard time defending it in court. "

They and Thermos are two who have had to spend vast sums to keep their trademarks out of the public domain.

[23] [@~]MizuGami "People would rather sit on their dead asses and watch a crappy TV show than to sit down and read a classic book."

I'd rather sit on my dead ass and play Daiktana than read that long assed, boring as hell and twice as depressing excuse for literature. 1984 sucked elephant balls. That may have been the absolute worst book I've ever had the displeasure of reading halfway through.

Animal farm was different. Amazing that the guy that did Doom could also do Daiktana.
#26 by ""
2000-09-06 16:14:02
<i>Thinking...</i>
#27 by "Bert Halligan"
2000-09-06 16:15:31
shane.gleeson@upm-kymmene.com
#25 - My god man you are obviously not sane. 1984 was one of the best books I've ever read. Not much to say about the lawsuit other than it's a bit silly but then again as someone said people have one dodgier cases in America. My favourite one though is the woman who sued a microwave company for not saying not to put pets into it. She tried to dry her dog after washing it and fried it. Truly classic.
#28 by "Prycon"
2000-09-06 16:16:10
prycon@online.no
I don't get it... Duke Nukem took the line from Bruce Campbell, and Bruce Campbell took the line from Elvis, who probably took it from someone else. We recycle trash why can't we recycle words and phrases? Is it such a big deal?


Prycon
World Domination
#29 by "Scott Miller, 3D Realms"
2000-09-06 16:16:18
scottm@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com
Duke Nukem first appeared in the Captain Planet TV show.  But the characters are completely different.  TBS, the IP owners of Captain Planet, agreed with us years ago that the two Duke have nothing in common but the name, and so therefore can co-exist.  BTW, we were not aware of the first Duke until many months after our first Duke game came out, and a fan alerted us.  Just a total fluke.

Our Duke has taken on "secondary meaning" now, giving us superior rights.  I'll leave it to readers to learn what secondary meaning means, and it also applies to us with regard to "Hail to the king, baby."

We have many other case laws and precedents working in our favor with regard to our superior rights to this phrase, but again I don't have time to go into them.

I will say this quickly though, specific lines (or characters) in a movie, book or any other copyrighted work  are not automatically protected (otherwise at this point no one could find anything new to write or say!) -- and there are endless cases that back this up.

Scott
#30 by "[@~]MizuGami"
2000-09-06 16:22:26
mizugami@rochester.rr.com http://www.komatose.com
mcgrew #25:

<quote>I'd rather sit on my dead ass and play Daiktana than read that long assed, boring as hell and twice as depressing excuse for literature. 1984 sucked elephant balls. That may have been the absolute worst book I've ever had the displeasure of reading halfway through.</quote>

mcgrew,
 I wasn't defending the literary excellence (or lack thereof, deppending on who you talk to ;)) of 1984 (That's one I have yet to read actually). What I'm saying is that society has become a lazy, homogenized culture that would rather sit in front of a TV screen mindlessly rather than read a book. ANY book. ;)

<quote>Amazing that the guy that did Doom could also do Daiktana.</quote>

Agreed....maybe Romero spent most of the dev time on Daikitana staring at Killcreek's chest. ;)

[@~]MizuGami  
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "Steven Clubb"
2000-09-06 16:25:17
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#29</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "Scott Miller, 3D Realms" wrote:  
<QUOTE>I will say this quickly though, specific lines (or characters) in a movie, book or any other copyrighted work are not automatically protected (otherwise at this point no one could find anything new to write or say!) -- and there are endless cases that back this up.
</QUOTE>

That certainly gives you the legal right, but does it give you the moral right?  I seem to remember it being perfectly legal to own other people.

Damn it, I couldn't help that Baytorism--old habits die hard :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#32 by "Baytor"
2000-09-06 16:26:47
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#30</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "[@~]MizuGami" wrote:  
<QUOTE>Agreed....maybe Romero spent most of the dev time on Daikitana staring at Killcreek's chest. ;)
</QUOTE>

So did we all.... so did we all.

Had to give this one to Baytor.

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Scott Miller, 3D Realms"
2000-09-06 16:29:04
scottm@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com
Prycon <quote> I don't get it... Duke Nukem took the line from Bruce Campbell, and Bruce Campbell took the line from Elvis, who probably took it from someone else. We recycle trash why can't we recycle words and phrases? Is it such a big deal? </quote>

This is another huge point in our favor, in that the "Hail to the king, baby" line is not original enough for the movie owners to claim as their own -- thanks to the real King.  ;-)

Scott
#34 by "ynohtnA"
2000-09-06 16:32:23
ynohtna@ynohtna.org http://www.ynohtna.org/
<b>#32</b> "Baytor" wrote...
<QUOTE>Had to give this one to Baytor.</QUOTE>
Put the 'net identity on the ground and step back before anyone gets hurt.

It's over, man. Let it go, it's over...
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#35 by "Steven Clubb"
2000-09-06 16:46:52
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#34</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "ynohtnA" wrote:  
<QUOTE>Put the 'net identity on the ground and step back before anyone gets hurt.

It's over, man. Let it go, it's over...
</QUOTE>

Nah, it's not over, it's merely semi-retired.  I will, no doubt, return to using it, as I don't make a distinction between myself and my net-identity; but I've allowed the name of Baytor to become a farce here and I've been attempting to live up to the stupidity of it.  Using my real name is just my way of restoring honor and dignity to my once proud nickname :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#36 by "^mortis^"
2000-09-06 16:48:25
mortis@goddamnindependent.com http://www.goddamnindependent.com
<I>I will say this quickly though, specific lines (or characters) in a movie, book or any other copyrighted work are not automatically protected (otherwise at this point no one could find anything new to write or say!) -- and there are endless cases that back this up</I>

ok then, how bout:

"Use the Force, Duke..."
"Play it Again, Duke..."
"Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty Pig-Cop!"

If specific lines from movies are the only source of inspiration for people to find anything new to write or say, then god help us all.

sounds like it creates an infertile breeding ground of rehashed ideas and dead-horse flogging.  (although, this goes a long way to explain why there are so many look-alike/play-alike MODS for many games...)

^M^


But it is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.
- Herman Melville
#37 by "El Asso Wipo!!"
2000-09-06 16:50:47
wipoelasso@hotmail.com http://www.whitehouse.com
<b>#27</b> "Bert Halligan" wrote...
<QUOTE>1984 was one of the best books I've ever read. </QUOTE>

That's funny, I thought 1984 sucked shit, and not regular shit, I'm talking shit with corn in it.

Animal Farm rocked.  

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#38 by "El Asso Wipo!!"
2000-09-06 16:52:42
wipoelasso@hotmail.com http://www.whitehouse.com
<b>#29</b> "Scott Miller, 3D Realms" wrote...
<QUOTE>Our Duke has taken on "secondary meaning" now, giving us superior rights. I'll leave it to readers to learn what secondary meaning means, and it also applies to us with regard to "Hail to the king, baby." </QUOTE>

Yes, well, it still makes you look like a thief who can't come up with original content.  Whether that's true or not is really up to the individuals who think such a way and/or the court system.  Since this has never been brought to court, I guess it's not that big a deal.

- Groovy<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#39 by "Christopher Tew"
2000-09-06 17:12:11
kingmob@intermind.net
#31:  It doesn't give 3DRealms the moral right, no, but in today's gaming industry, morality is hardly a concern of the companies that produce games.  The companies may be comprised of people with good morals (at least, insofar as "good" morality is technically defined in our society...in practice, the goodness of one's morality is in direct proportion to the amount of money in one's portfolio), but the aggregate companies themselves are simply out to make a buck, and having scruples tends to get in the way of that.
#40 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-09-06 17:19:59
tc10@spammegoonidareya.st-andrews.ac.uk http://www.fisty.com/~tom/
<b>Mizugami:</b>
<quote>It's become such common usage that Xerox would have a hard time defending it in court.</quote>
Actually, I seem to recall that they tried to, some time ago - and failed miserably. That might have been Hoover quibbling 'hoover', come to think of it. Or possibly even both :)

<b>deadlock:</b>
<quote>But could i create a documentary about blowjob techniques called hoovers ?? this would be more analogous to the Big Brother/1984 thing.</quote>
I think it's already been done... uh, or so I'm told. Ahem. ;)
Seriously though - I know there's a band called Hooverphonic (or was that the name of one of their albums? Damn, I can't remember. Whatever. The point stands)
What I really can't stomach about this case is that the guy suing actually has no connection to the book whatsoever (as far as I've been able to glean). He just happens to have bought the rights to it - and that, in my opinion, denigrates not only the book (one of, if not <i>the</i>, greatest books of the 20th century - anyone who disagrees is just plain weird ;), but the memory of Orwell too. And there's no way you could quibble any claim that he was one of the last century's greatest writers.
#41 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-09-06 17:21:41
tc10@spammegoonidareya.st-andrews.ac.uk http://www.fisty.com/~tom/
Hurrah for easily proof-read and corrected syntactic errors! :)
#42 by "Reb Pizer"
2000-09-06 17:22:48
reb@entdepot.com http://www.entdepot.com
<b>Dethstryk</b> (#3):
<QUOTE>Captain Planet!

Man, there was something about that show. Captain Planet himself seemed strongly homosexual, and so did the little Asian boy who had the "Heart" ring. Man, I can go on and on about this..


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming </QUOTE>

I can't believe I'm actually going to say this.  I'm embarassed that I even have an opinion about it, especially since I think I only watched the show once.  

It's one of those stupid little bits of trivia that stays with you and I just gott say it.

The Heart kid was South American, not Asian.

It could be worse.  At least I don't know his name.

Reb
Entertainment Depot.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#43 by "ynohtnA"
2000-09-06 17:23:09
ynohtna@ynohtna.org http://www.ynohtna.org/
Pop Quiz:

Should Campbells Soup have sued Andy Warhol for use of their trademarks?
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#44 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-09-06 17:28:10
tc10@spammegoonidareya.st-andrews.ac.uk http://www.fisty.com/~tom/
<quote>Should Campbells Soup have sued Andy Warhol for use of their trademarks?</quote>
Of course not. Would they today - and would they win? Yes, and yes. Devolution of all governments and corporations, and a return to hunter-gatherer tribes, say I.
#45 by "Reb Pizer"
2000-09-06 17:30:26
reb@entdepot.com http://www.entdepot.com
I think Warhol's piece and Duke's use of the Evil Dead line both are protected under the same legal thinking that protects things like parody and sampling, a la rap and other music.  <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#46 by "deadlock"
2000-09-06 17:35:46
deadlock@eircom.net
<quote>If specific lines from movies are the only source of inspiration for people to find anything new to write or say, then god help us all.</quote>

I don't think that Scott Miller was referring specifically to movies. His point is basically the same as the old clichè about there only ever having been seven (or was it six ?) original novels. Every work of fiction since then is just a variation on the themes and plots from those novels. I know this isn't exactly true (did they have scifi when the first novels were written ?), but the point stands.

as for my opinion of Big Brother the TV show, it is a pile of shite, or at least the UK version is. I couldn't think of a more boring bunch of people. they are so fucking self-obsessed and false it's unbelievable. Anna farts, Mel gives her a hug. Craig wanks, Darren congratulates him. (not really, but that's how false and sugar-coated they all try to come across). At least Nick Bateman didn't try to pretend he wasn't a conniving bastard. CUNTS! grr...

deadlock
#47 by "ynohtnA"
2000-09-06 17:36:22
ynohtna@ynohtna.org http://www.ynohtna.org/
<b>#45</b> "Reb Pizer" wrote...
<QUOTE>I think Warhol's piece and Duke's use of the Evil Dead line both are protected under the same legal thinking that protects things like parody and sampling, a la rap and other music.</QUOTE>
Pop quiz part 2:

Would Andy Warhol have been able to copyright his arrangement of Campbell's Soup tins within the context of an art gallery?

What if the tins were not <i>genuine</i> Campbell's Soup tins, but near-identical copies he had created himself?
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "xero"
2000-09-06 17:40:01
xero@tweak3d.net http://www.tweak3d.net
1984 sucked. The book's concept was very good, but it was blandly written and lacked anything besides the concept of this society, something that wasn't enough to give the book real substance.

The fact that it was written way back in the 40's however makes you consider the foresight contained within...

As for Duke3D's use of the line...

<QUOTE>I'll leave it to readers to learn what secondary meaning means, and it also applies to us with regard to "Hail to the king, baby."</QUOTE>

Whatevers. I was a fan of the Evil Dead series, and while I couldn't give a rat's ass if you ripped the line off, <b>at least make it sound good</b> when it's said. If it had been, I would have probably found the reference funny, but as it was it just screamed "weak imitator" (with this voice chanting "small balls! small balls!" in the background).

And whomever made the reference that it wasn't origional because Elvis said it... you're right, the <i>line</i> was not original in Evil Dead, what made it funny however <b>was</b> (meaning, Bruce kicking everyone's ass and saying the line)... had Elvis slaughtered dozens upon dozens of zombies in a comical manner and then delivered the line, I would whole-heartedly agree. But he didn't. He used it as a corny one-liner at concerts and so on. Boo. :P
#49 by "El Asso Wipo!!"
2000-09-06 17:45:46
wipoelasso@hotmail.com http://www.whitehouse.com
<b>#48</b> "xero" wrote...
<QUOTE>And whomever made the reference that it wasn't origional because Elvis said it... you're right, the <I>line</I> was not original in Evil Dead, what made it funny however <B>was</B> (meaning, Bruce kicking everyone's ass and saying the line)... had Elvis slaughtered dozens upon dozens of zombies in a comical manner and then delivered the line, I would whole-heartedly agree. But he didn't. He used it as a corny one-liner at concerts and so on. Boo. :P </QUOTE>

Hey!  Didn't Caesar originate this line?  I think so babies.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#50 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-09-06 17:59:27
tc10@spammegoonidareya.st-andrews.ac.uk http://www.fisty.com/~tom/
<quote>Hey! Didn't Caesar originate this line? I think so babies.</quote>
Caesare Latinum locutus est... ;P

Think that's right... my Latin's a touch rusty now :) I'm sure someone'll pick me up if it's wrong, anyway...
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