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T O P I C
New Engine Forever?
August 29th 2000, 23:09 CEST by andy

* RUMOUR CONTROL *

As you may have already seen on the FatBabies site, some information posted to an Infogrames investor forum suggests that Duke Nukem Forever will be further delayed by another change of engine.



After using the Quake 2 engine for several years, 3DR/Apogee switched to the Unreal engine in 1998. That move has attracted a lot of criticism, both due to the obvious delays and the Unreal engine's problems with certain video cards. So while another change of engine would set the project back even further, it could also solve one of its possible weaknesses.

The message on the Yahoo investor forum, posted by someone called "stu1bunn" whose profile doesn't include any further details, claims to be passing on information from a conversation with John Menditto, Infogrames' investor relations manager. Here's the bit about Duke:

Duke Forever delayed. Developer has created a new engine that is fantastic. They are going to try the game with this engine. They believe the game will run "much" faster and better. John said that he had just spoken to the developer. No release date yet.

Apogee's Scott Miller responded to the allegation with an outright denial: "This is absolutely untrue -- we have not switched to a new engine since switching from the Quake engine to the Unreal engine mid-1998."

We contacted Infogrames' John Menditto to confirm that the information had in fact come from him, but he was unavailable.

It's worth noting that the information posted on the investor forum doesn't suggest that Duke has switched to another third-party engine, but rather that a new engine has been created in-house. So could this be a reworked version of the abandoned Prey engine?

It seems unlikely. The word on the gravevine is that there hasn't been any change of engine, so perhaps John Menditto (or the person who passed on the information) was referring to 3DR upgrading the Unreal engine to the UT engine? We asked George Broussard if he could throw some light on the subject, and he said simply: "Clueless people. Same modified UT engine." Certainly seems like the most plausible explanation, doesn't it?

(No 3DR employees were harmed during the making of this topic.)

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Home » Topic: New Engine Forever?

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#1 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-08-29 23:10:47
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Why andy?

Noo!!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#2 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-08-29 23:11:55
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Oh, never mind.

Everything checks out here. /brushes tears from eyes.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#3 by "BloodKnight"
2000-08-29 23:14:01
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
First!
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#4 by "BloodKnight"
2000-08-29 23:14:12
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
FUCK
NOOOOOOOO
I am not FIRST
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#5 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-08-29 23:19:30
charliew@3drealms.com
Having... withdrawls... can't... find... anything to... argue... about... with this... topic#@()()*%

AHHHHHHHH MY LIFE IS CRUMBLING DOWN AROUND ME!!!!
#6 by "Jeremy"
2000-08-29 23:22:02
jnthornh@eos.ncsu.edu
Eh.

I rather doubt this claim is true; but if it <i>is</i>, then 3DR has wasted a <b>lot</b> of cash licensing engines they'll never even use.

Unless, of course, there's a Deus Ex conspiracy where both Id and Epic are in on the entire deal, and they only <i>pretended</i> to licence the engines...

True or no, this just adds to the mystery of DN4E... I think it would be fun if the 3DR guys would neither confirm nor deny this and just let the buzz build all the more :p

Jeremy
--
Despite your efforts to be a romantic hero, you will gradually evolve into a postmodern plot device. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#7 by "Dethstryk"
2000-08-29 23:24:41
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
Hrm.. Scott says it ain't so. Alright. Problem here? It's a rumor that came up on FatBabies, and you they aren't always 100% true.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#8 by "Jeremy"
2000-08-29 23:25:22
jnthornh@eos.ncsu.edu
<b>#Main Post</b> "andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>We asked George Broussard if he could throw some light on the subject, and he said simply: "Clueless people. Same modified UT engine." </QUOTE>
Bah.  I should've finished reading :)

/me wonders if this topic exists just to prove that Andy can write a subjective piece about a 3DR rumor...

Jeremy
--
Despite your efforts to be a romantic hero, you will gradually evolve into a postmodern plot device. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#9 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-08-29 23:26:02
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#5</b> "Charlie Wiederhold" wrote -
<QUOTE>

Having... withdrawls... can't... find... anything to... argue... about... with this... topic#@()()*%

AHHHHHHHH MY LIFE IS CRUMBLING DOWN AROUND ME!!!! </QUOTE>

I don't have any doubt 3dR's next engine will be done in house, maybe that's what the <i>PR guru</i> misinterpreted. Either that, or a <i>PR guru</i> didn't do his job very well.

3 years from now, when it becomes clear 3dRealms has licensed Pie in the Sky software/3d Game Engine! for Duke5, I'll apologize for the above conjecture.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "Jeremy"
2000-08-29 23:26:22
jnthornh@eos.ncsu.edu
<b>#8</b> "Jeremy" wrote...
<QUOTE>/me wonders if this topic exists just to prove that Andy can write a <b>subjective</b> piece about a 3DR rumor... </QUOTE>
OBJECTIVE damnit!  Must learn to proof-read!!!!

Jeremy
--
Despite your efforts to be a romantic hero, you will gradually evolve into a postmodern plot device. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#11 by "None-1a"
2000-08-29 23:27:04
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a
<b>#5</b> "Charlie Wiederhold" wrote...
<QUOTE>


Having... withdrawls... can't... find... anything to... argue... about...
with this... topic#@()()*%

AHHHHHHHH MY LIFE IS CRUMBLING DOWN AROUND
ME!!!! </QUOTE>

try these, all of em are about Yahoo investor.

-Yahoo investors message boards where created for investors to trade any and all infomation on companies.
- Some of the infomation exchanded is being passed an factual and from an inside sorce when in fact the perons is simply trying to manipulate a price.
- The forums are frequented by small time investors looking for a big shoot chance.
- The posters can and do deside not to reveal and real infomation about them selves or their connects with the infomation passed around.

That should give us something to chew on for a while at lest. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#12 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-08-29 23:27:34
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
<b>#6</b> "Jeremy" wrote...
<QUOTE>True or no, this just adds to the mystery of DN4E... I think it would be fun if the 3DR guys would neither confirm nor deny this and just let the buzz build all the more :p
</QUOTE>

too bad they were already quoted as denying it in the topic, then.

-PainKilleR-[CE]
#13 by "BloodKnight"
2000-08-29 23:28:17
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>Jeremy</b> (#10):
<QUOTE>OBJECTIVE damnit! Must learn to proof-read!!!! </QUOTE>

I thought I was disturbed
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#14 by "Andy"
2000-08-29 23:42:28
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
And over at VoodooExtreme: "<i>No Marketing or PR Reps were harmed in the making of this post.</i>" Before anyone asks, no, I didn't/wasn't/wouldn't.

And don't worry, the next 3DR-related topic will give you plenty to argue about.
#15 by "12xu"
2000-08-29 23:46:52
mswitzer@insync.net http://http;//www.hichouston.org
It was posted on the boards that our CEO was leaving...

the phones rang for days and he is still here...never was going anywhere...

Basically investor msg boards are good for a laugh, but generally contain fewer facts than any PC thread..

12xu
out<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#16 by "Gestalt"
2000-08-29 23:51:01
john@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
"This is rumour control, here are the facts..." - name that movie.

ZZZzzz... When do we get a 3dfx vs NVIDIA thread damnit? ;)
#17 by "Gestalt"
2000-08-29 23:51:32
john@eurogamer.net http://www.eurogamer.net
12xu - "Basically investor msg boards are good for a laugh, but generally contain fewer facts than any PC thread"

That's .. scary.
#18 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-08-30 00:04:17
charliew@3drealms.com
<quote>And don't worry, the next 3DR-related topic will give you plenty to argue about.</quote>

*CHEER*
#19 by "Daren Walz"
2000-08-30 00:09:30
walzx002@maroon.tc.umn.edu
#13

wasn't that Alien 3?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#20 by "Daren Walz"
2000-08-30 00:10:20
walzx002@maroon.tc.umn.edu
I ment 16

good god I must be losing it

Daren

*flush*<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#21 by "Andy"
2000-08-30 00:17:11
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
Sub-topic...

The 'information' was posted to the investor forum on the 23rd. Scott Miller's denial was posted on the 28th. The story was then posted on FatBabies -- as a story, not a rumour -- on the 29th.

Did the FatBabies folks not know about Scott's denial, or did they choose to ignore it to make their story seem more credible?
#22 by "BloodKnight"
2000-08-30 00:23:29
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>Andy</b> (#21):
<QUOTE>Did the FatBabies folks not know about Scott's denial, or did they choose to
ignore it to make their story seem more credible? </QUOTE>

FatBabies is part of the POF network.  'Nuff said

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-08-30 00:23:59
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#21</b> "Andy" wrote -
<QUOTE>

Sub-topic...

The 'information' was posted to the investor forum on the 23rd. Scott Miller's denial was posted on the 28th. The story was then posted on FatBabies -- as a story, not a rumour -- on the 29th.

Did the FatBabies folks not know about Scott's denial, or did they choose to ignore it to make their story seem more credible?
</QUOTE>

There's a lot of things wrong with FatBabies, sort through their rumor section and see how many stories they've pulled. <i>For whatever reasons</i>.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#24 by "unDuLe"
2000-08-30 00:33:13
undule@tampabay.rr.com http://www.planetunreal.com/undulation
Ho ho! What in the hell is FatBabies.
Where is GB on this one?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#25 by "flamethrower"
2000-08-30 00:36:00
flamethrower@barrysworld.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
Fatbabies does a grand job in the face of industry intrique, NDAs, bullying bosses, brige-burn threats, e-mail monitoring and tight-lipped slavedriving moneyseekers.


<b><i>Think you can do better?</i></b>

I very much doubt it.



<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#26 by "Apache"
2000-08-30 00:36:09
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
the only reason I thought the story was interesting was the fact that an investor relations rep would say that sort of thing to drum up the stock prices. (true or otherwise)

I knew the engine thing was false (we were sent the story almost verbatum as it was posted on fatbabies) and contacted 3DR to see if it was true or not. (obviously not true, of course)

after speaking w/infogrames John was either mis-quoted or the whole Q&A was fabricated by someone looking to drive up the infogrames' shares.
#27 by "12xu"
2000-08-30 00:36:43
mswitzer@insync.net http://http;//www.hichouston.org
<b>#17</b> "Gestalt" wrote...
<QUOTE>12xu - "Basically investor msg boards are good for a laugh, but generally contain fewer facts than any PC thread"

That's .. scary. </QUOTE>

I agree...having been a stock broker in several day trading firms
I can tell you the people who make the money have a knack for it, or in some cases, simply have the inside info to make the money...

One trader I knew would get calls from his buddys at Morgan Stanley just telling him to, for instance, buy INTC at 12:15 and hold it till 1:00...the days he got those calls where the days he made money...

Buy the time real NEWS is made public the market has already responded to it...buy on rumour sell on news...

read the investor message boards for a laugh now and again..but I  implore you, if you want your kids to go to college, or to be able to retire, do NOT invest based on that info...

12xu
out<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#28 by "Apache"
2000-08-30 00:40:51
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
btw- we have <A HREF="http://finger.planetquake.com/qfplan.asp?userid=hall&id=14690">hot man-chat</a> with Jason Hall tonight (in roughly 1.5 hours)
#29 by "Illbuddha"
2000-08-30 00:42:12
colin_kawakami@bossgame.com http://www.databass.com/ck/
Fatbabies boggles the mind. Where Planetcrap could possibly be construed as irresponsible or skewed, fatbabies is totally uninformed.

Recently, an entire article/rant about how deus ex butchered the quake2 engine with shoddy programming, and making it unplayable on nvidia hardware. How could programmers be so slovenly as to take an engine that runs beautifully in OpenGL and fuck it up so bad?

Nevermind that deus ex doesn't use the quake 2 engine. Fatbabies are never ones to let things like research, facts, or common sense interfere with their reporting.

Referring to Bioware as "Biodome" several times in a recent article was another high point.

Are they for real? Sometimes I think it is a humor site cleverly disguised as blundering incompetence, but then again, I give the entire human race far too much credit.
#30 by "BloodKnight"
2000-08-30 00:48:29
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>Illbuddha</b> (#29):
<QUOTE>Fatbabies are never ones to let things like research, facts, or common sense
interfere with their reporting.
</QUOTE>

3 words:  Portal of Evil

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "George Broussard"
2000-08-30 00:52:02
georgeb@3drealms.com
Curious why this topic even exists?  We're posting topics about rumors we KNOW are flase now?  Or is the point to discuss rumor sites like Fatbabies running things without emailing developers for the facts first?

I told Andy in an email earlier that it was a wrong rumor.  Clearly some marketing weenie got his signals crossed?

Oh well...

<quote>Did the FatBabies folks not know about Scott's denial, or did they choose to ignore it to make their story seem more credible? </quote>

Dunno.  I emailed all 4 of them and half expected an updated story by now with the facts.  Maybe they are working or something?

George Broussard, 3D Realms
#32 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-08-30 00:55:04
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#25</b> "flamethrower" wrote -
<QUOTE>

Fatbabies does a grand job in the face of industry intrique, NDAs, bullying bosses, brige-burn threats, e-mail monitoring and tight-lipped slavedriving moneyseekers.


<B><I>Think you can do better?</I></B>

I very much doubt it.



</QUOTE>

Don't reply to my posts, please.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Andy"
2000-08-30 00:55:18
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#26</b>, Apache:
<QUOTE>
I knew the engine thing was false (we were sent the story almost verbatum as it was posted on fatbabies) and contacted 3DR to see if it was true or not. (obviously not true, of course)

after speaking w/infogrames John was either mis-quoted or the whole Q&A was fabricated by someone looking to drive up the infogrames' shares.
</QUOTE>
Then why the hell didn't you report it? How can you know (or believe) that a story isn't true, but stay silent and risk it doing damage to the compamy in question?

As for how the info could drive Infogrames' share value UP ... you'll have to explain that one to me. If anything, I'd have thought a delayed product would drive the share price down.

Now please, please tell me you debunked the rumour on VoodooExtreme and I just managed to miss it. You did, didn't you?
#34 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-08-30 00:55:21
seth@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
One better,

/ignored.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#35 by "Illbuddha"
2000-08-30 00:56:54
colin_kawakami@bossgame.com http://www.databass.com/ck/
Bloodknight:

I don't condemn Portal of Evil because they have taken the retards at fatbabies under their wing. Fat Chicks in Party Hats more than makes up for every sin POE will ever commit.


well not quite, but close enough for my readership.. I mean I read evil avatar, my standards aren't too high. :]
#36 by "MCorleone"
2000-08-30 00:57:11
john_st123@hotmail.com
Illbuddha, do you not think that it was a _very_ slightly derogatory term for Bioware?
#37 by "Warmonger [AI]"
2000-08-30 00:58:42
warmonger87@hotmail.com
OT: Who's going to the Jason Hall chat tonight?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#38 by "BloodKnight"
2000-08-30 00:58:55
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>Illbuddha</b> (#35):
<QUOTE>I don't condemn Portal of Evil because they have taken the retards at fatbabies
under their wing. Fat Chicks in Party Hats more than makes up for every sin POE
will ever commit. </QUOTE>

And CrazyGrandpa?  Have you seen the galleries at Portal of Evil?

ewww
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#39 by "Apache"
2000-08-30 01:02:03
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
Andy: <quote>Then why the hell didn't you report it? </quote>

I <A HREF="http://www.voodooextreme.com/comments.taf?postID=4971">did</a>. (well before the post on pc I might add)
#40 by "Apache"
2000-08-30 01:04:48
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
Andy:
<quote>As for how the info could drive Infogrames' share value UP ... you'll have to explain that one to me. If anything, I'd have thought a delayed product would drive the share price down. </quote>

there were a lot of other games on that list besides DNF.
#41 by "Andy"
2000-08-30 01:06:14
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#39</b>, Apache:
<QUOTE>
I <A href="http://www.voodooextreme.com/comments.taf?postID=4971">did</A>. (well before the post on pc I might add)
</QUOTE>
*blush*

Well then let me give you a hearty slap on the back. Nice one. :-)
#42 by "Apache"
2000-08-30 01:06:39
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
:-D
#43 by "Andy"
2000-08-30 01:07:30
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#40</b>, Apache:
<QUOTE>
there were a lot of other games on that list besides DNF.
</QUOTE>
Yeah, but if the intention of the message was to drive the share price up, why would the person include info that would only be likely to drive it down?
#44 by "Illbuddha"
2000-08-30 01:08:34
colin_kawakami@bossgame.com http://www.databass.com/ck/
MCorleone:

anythings possible. But considering the quake2 engine/Deus Ex fuck up, I have to pencil in the box next to option b: Incompetent Mistake.

If you had pretensions to being some sort of writer, don't you could think come up with a better derogatory twist on Bioware's name?

Here are some off the top of my head:

Biowary, Biowart, Biosmear, B.O.ware.

Or they could take the flamethrower tack.. and do something like:

Biocunt, or Bio(analrapereference)
#45 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-08-30 01:10:23
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
Flamethrower :
<quote>Think you can do better?

I very much doubt it. </quote>
I'm hard pressed to think of how much skill it actually takes to post stuff that people send in anonymously.  It seems like a job a trained chimp could do.

Or even a simple bit of script programming.  ;)

What would make FatBabies more credible would be if they acknowledged when they are wrong, as opposed to only gloating over when they're right.
#46 by "Apache"
2000-08-30 01:13:47
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
Andy
<quote>Yeah, but if the intention of the message was to drive the share price up, why would the person include info that would only be likely to drive it down? </quote>

DNF is one of Infogrames most anticipated titles, hard to avoid not mentioning it. the way the (im)poster worded the DNF blurb was very favorable, however.

btw- infogrames has an office not 2 blocks from my house, how about letting me see DNF? (George, anyone?) :-)
#47 by "Andy"
2000-08-30 01:15:44
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#45</b>, Warren Marshall:
<QUOTE>
What would make FatBabies more credible would be if they acknowledged when they are wrong, as opposed to only gloating over when they're right.
</QUOTE>
Care to guess why I raised an eyebrow at this post? ;-)
#48 by "flamethrower"
2000-08-30 01:38:39
flamethrower@barrysworld.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
<b>#32</b> "Seth Krieg"

<QUOTE>Don't reply to my posts, please.</QUOTE>

I didn't you moron.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#49 by "flamethrower"
2000-08-30 01:38:59
flamethrower@barrysworld.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
Except to say so.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#50 by "flamethrower"
2000-08-30 01:44:11
flamethrower@barrysworld.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
<b>#44</b> "Illbuddha"

<QUOTE>Or they could take the flamethrower tack.. and do something like:

</QUOTE>

Biowhere.
Biopubichair.
Tryoware.
The Horriblynamedspastic Company.


And what the fuck is a bio pub i chair anyway?
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
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