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T O P I C
The Art Of Disloyalty
August 18th 2000, 19:08 CEST by andy

Oh dear, my poor confused brain. Chris Parker, producer of Baldur's Gate II, just opened up a whole world of pain...



Apparently there will be three versions of BGII available. There will be the normal version, a collector's edition that includes some extra features, and anyone who pre-orders the normal version will also get some other extra features. In other words, to get the 'full' game, you'll need to buy the special edition and pre-order the normal version.

This is how Chris Parker explains it in a message posted over on Baldur's Gate Chronicles:

Both Add-On Packs [...] contain code that opens one new store on a specific non-player character within the game. These new stores are located in commonly trafficked areas of the game. Both of these 'store-characters' have ten items that are not found elsewhere within the game, are very expensive, and are fairly powerful. If you have both Add-Ons, both 'store-characters' would be open and there would be a total of twenty items available.

You can probably guess that what I think about this -- it's an ugly gimmick designed to push more copies of the game to hardcore fans, the very people that a company should be most loyal to. It makes me think of those boy bands that release two copies of the same single with slightly different covers, knowing that a load of teeny bopper girls will rush out to buy both of them. If anything, BioWare should be giving the hardcore fans something extra for free, not trying to sell them two copies of the same game.

But that's not why I'm posting this topic. Oh no. See, there are two slightly odd things about Chris Parker's comments...

Towards the end of his message, he tries to ward off complaints of money-grabbing by saying: "If you do not have the Add-On, you will not miss out on anything in BGII, except for a few expensive novelty items."

Hmm. A few expensive novelty items? That's weird, because earlier in the message he explained that there will be twenty "fairly powerful" items. So which is it? Novelty trinkets, or world-conquering bringers of death? Chris doesn't seem to know. Or rather, he obviously does know, but he says one thing when he's trying to sell the add-ons and something entirely different when he's saying that you don't actually need them.

Also, his closing comment is a little strange...

When we came up with this idea we recognized that we live in a world with the Internet. We felt that it was extremely likely that all of the contents of these Add-Ons would be available to customers who did not get the Collector's Edition or Pre-Sell Add-Ons sometime after release. So we do not feel these Add-Ons deny anybody any portion of the Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn game experience.

Does this mean what I think it means? Is he justifying the add-ons by saying that he expects them to be pirated anyway?

Make sure you read the full explanation before commenting. I've almost certainly misquoted him, taken something out of context and slaughtered a load of fluffy bunny rabbits in the process. Or something.

C O M M E N T S
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#1 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-08-18 19:11:28
Sgt_Hulka@Hulka.com http://www.hulka.com
Whoo Baby!
#2 by "Someone"
2000-08-18 19:18:00
I don't understand it, everyone knows that this is a cheap way of making more money, and it's going to hurt their images... so, why do they do it?
#3 by "RandoM"
2000-08-18 19:37:23
random1@speakeasy.org
They do it because the publisher told them to.

look at it two ways -

1.  The items are expensive novelty items.

    Eh, big deal, the expensive novelty items
in Icewind Dale were just that, novelty items, not things any of my characters used.

2.  The items are vessels of awe-enspiring power.

    Using them will make the game tooo easy, ruining it for those who actually use the items.
Don't forget, these RPG's are coop play, not competitive.  You don't have to worry about somebody laying down a few extra bucks for the holy hand grenade of antioch and then kicking your ass with it ( cough, sanity, cough, cough ).

Lastly, these packs appear to be tiny, tiny, tiny modifications to the game.  Perhaps all of the data is in there and only needs to be unlocked?  His statement about the 'Net would appear to support this as the case, which means anybody who wants this stuff will get it... especially as I expect them to officially release the 'packs' some time after pre-orders and collectors' editions are pointless.
#4 by "AmbushBug"
2000-08-18 19:40:04
ambushbug@portalofevil.com
"Lastly, when we came up with this idea we recognized that we live in a world with the Internet. We felt that it was extremely likely that all of the contents of these Add-Ons would be available to customers who did not get the Collector's Edition or Pre-Sell Add-Ons sometime after release."

While I think it's kind of pathetic that I'm going to have to go looking around on usenet to get the REAL entire contents of a game I'm about to purchase, at least they are being realistic about it.

I really hate crap like this, gold-version games are bad enough.  I wish they would just stick to throwing in a mousepad or using a special 'pretty' style box to push out the collectors editions.

-AB
#5 by "Gimper"
2000-08-18 19:44:43
jjohnsen0@uswest.net
He says it wont disrupt the balance of the game, so I doubt they are the most powerful weapons available.  This is just like comic book companies that sell certain issues with five different covers or with foil enhancements.  They know that the fanboys will spend the extra money even though it is the same on the inside.  People buy it, that is why they keep trying to sell it.
#6 by "Certis"
2000-08-18 19:50:52
spleen@mts.net http://www.voodooextreme.com/Alteredworlds
Guys, I'm pretty sure he means they will make it available on fan sites later on. Maybe someone should email them to clairify this mess..
#7 by "Orochi Florist"
2000-08-18 19:57:09
dootyj@hotmail.com
Of course, no one can be sure exactly what was meant until Parker clarifies his clarification, but
"Producer Parker" wrote...
<QUOTE>Both Add-On Packs, one for the Collector's Edition and one for Pre-Sell purchase of the game</QUOTE>implies (at least in my version of the truth) you can get the presale addon by prepurchasing 'the game'. I'm going to assume the special edition can be identified as 'the game' as well.

Everybody knows you have to prepurchase 'special' editions nowadays anyway if you want to get ahold of em. So this is (possibly) a little less of a big deal than it seems.

Then again, I could be wrong. And angry.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#8 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-08-18 20:08:01
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
So, what happens if you pre-order the Collector's Edition, do you get them both then? More than likely I'll just get a friend to pre-order the normal version, and I'll pre-order the Collector's Edition, and then we'll swap the add-ons or something.

In the meantime, anyone know where I can get the DVD version of the original Baldur's Gate? It seems to have become rather hard to find recently in my area.
#9 by "Warmonger [AI]"
2000-08-18 20:08:19
warmonger87@hotmail.com
I'm guessing this thread is gonna last about 20 more posts before someone mentions a certain other game that is doing essentially the same thing...

As far as I'm concerned, if the developer says the game is balanced well enough, then we can't say anything until we see the actual game. Leave well enough alone!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "Gimper"
2000-08-18 20:16:58
jjohnsen0@uswest.net
Didn't Diablo II do the same thing?
#11 by "Andy"
2000-08-18 20:19:40
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#9</b>, Warmonger [AI]:
<QUOTE>
I'm guessing this thread is gonna last about 20 more posts before someone mentions a certain other game that is doing essentially the same thing...
</QUOTE>
I was tempted to mention it in the topic. :-)
#12 by "Orochi Florist"
2000-08-18 20:20:50
dootyj@hotmail.com
<b>#10</b> "Gimper" wrote...
<QUOTE>


Didn't Diablo II do the same thing? </QUOTE>

Diablo had a special edition which contained a boatload of nifty  stuff only useful (and that's stretching the definition) in the real world. The game portion of the product itself was EXACTLY the same as the non collectors edition.

This is an entirely different can of worms. This is (WARNING: bad analogy forthcoming) like buying diablo2 with skills like whirlwind and corpse explosion only available in the collectors edition.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#13 by "Gimper"
2000-08-18 20:23:53
jjohnsen0@uswest.net
Right, but isn't it all extra crap?  He plainly says it won't change the balance of the game and is more of a novelty.  How is this different than a special edition sticker for your lunchbox, or a small metal figurine of your favorite RPG character?  It isn't in the real world, but it is just extra garbage.
#14 by "RandoM"
2000-08-18 20:35:06
random1@speakeasy.org
#9, #11

I already mentioned the other game, doh.
#15 by "zenfnord"
2000-08-18 20:36:24
zenfnord@hotmail.com
<quote>This is an entirely different can of worms. This is (WARNING: bad analogy forthcoming) like buying diablo2 with skills like whirlwind and corpse explosion only available in the collectors edition. </quote>

You could <b>easily</b> have used a better analogy.  How about Diablo 2, but with, like, more items? (from the sounds of it, the extras would be some of those semi-useful unique items that are passed up in the cause of, you know, better ones...)
#16 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-08-18 20:36:26
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
It's different because we don't really know that it won't change the balance of the game. He mentioned that the items will be <quote>not found elsewhere within the game, are very expensive, and are fairly powerful</quote> and then he goes on to say <quote>If you do not have the Add-On, you will not miss out on anything in BGII, except for a few expensive novelty items.</quote> as if he's trying to pacify the people that won't be able to get these items. Until we see what the items are and no how useful they will be in the game, we won't really know.
#17 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-08-18 20:37:45
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
#14:<quote>I already mentioned the other game, doh.</quote>

I thought they were talking about an upcoming game from our friends at Monolith ;)
#18 by "Orochi Florist"
2000-08-18 20:38:17
dootyj@hotmail.com
<b>#13</b> "Gimper" wrote...
<QUOTE>It isn't in the real world, but it is just extra garbage. </QUOTE>
The diablo stuff is there in the real world.
List of extra garbage you get:
Manual with photocopies of dev team signatures.
Same manual with different cover than normal edidion.
Port of diablo2 to A(?)D+D ruleset.
DVD of all cutscenes and some extra stuff.
Super l337 cd case that says "Collectors Edition"
Super l337 game cd that say "Collectors Edition" (and are exactly the same as the non version on the other side)

After rereading your post, all I have to say is... nevermind. I had to dig all that crap out though, so you have to read about it! :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#19 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-08-18 20:39:36
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
#18: you forgot the Soundtrack CD ;)
#20 by "MCorleone"
2000-08-18 20:39:50
john_st123@hotmail.com
Yup.  The hardcore fans will pay the full price for the collector's edition, then, in a subsequent patch, it will be added in for free.

(sarcasm)Oh, the horror!  (/sarcasm)

(sarcasm)I guess they're copying those damned vulture book publishers who sell new hardcover books at $39.99 only to have said same book in a stack at the front of the store a scant three months later for $3.99.(/sarcasm)


Bottom line?  If you want it up front, buy it.  If you can wait, wait.  I don't see the tyranny here, sorry.  This is a capitalist society.  DAMN THEM for trying to make more money, fueling the studio to make more games, DAMN THEM!
#21 by "Diseased"
2000-08-18 20:43:53
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
After Torment these guys can do no wrong.  Me = Black Isle fanboy.
#22 by "Jeffrey Powell"
2000-08-18 20:50:46
random1@speakeasy.org
<b>#17</b> "PainKilleR-[CE]" wrote...
<QUOTE>I thought they were talking about an upcoming game from our friends at Monolith
;)
</QUOTE>

Me too, reread my 1st post carefully. :-)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "MCorleone"
2000-08-18 20:50:56
john_st123@hotmail.com
Fallout + Fallout II + Icewind + BG2 = Fan

Fallout + Fallout II + Icewind + BG2 + Lithtech = Caution
#24 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-08-18 21:15:57
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>Diseased</b> (#21):
<QUOTE>
After Torment these guys can do no wrong. Me = Black Isle fanboy. </QUOTE>

Actually, they can.  :-/  Although I enjoyed the hell out of Torment, I just never got into Baldur's Gate and with Icewind Dale's problems (like pathfinding) it's finding limited play time on my screen.  I'll probably pass on Baldur's Gate 2 if it's more of the same ...

If there was a Torment2 coming, well, then we'd be talking about something.  :)

Were they responsible for Fallout and Fallout2?  I loved those games too, but I keep getting Black Isle and BioWare mixed up ...

--

Warren Marshall - Professional Nuisance<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#25 by "Matthias Worch"
2000-08-18 21:37:51
mworch@legendent.com http://www.langsuyar.com
#21:

<quote>After Torment these guys can do no wrong. Me = Black Isle fanboy.</quote>

Well, who are "they"? Baldur's Gate = Bioware (Canada), Torment/Icewind Dale = Black Isle (CA). Sure, Black Isle is distributing Bioware's games and using the Infinity Engine for their games, but it's still distinctively different designer teams.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#26 by "Dethstryk"
2000-08-18 21:40:09
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
Bioware and Black Isle are essentially the same people to me, just because they are so tightly woven together. I know people aren't supposed to think of it like that, but it's too damn confusing!


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#27 by "Diseased"
2000-08-18 21:50:12
diseasedanimal@yahoo.com
<QUOTE>Well, who are "they"? Baldur's Gate = Bioware (Canada), Torment/Icewind Dale = Black Isle (CA). Sure, Black Isle is distributing Bioware's games and using the Infinity Engine for their games, but it's still distinctively different designer teams. </QUOTE>

Finally, someone cleared that up for me.  I wasn't entirely sure, I probably should have asked.  

I long for Torment II.  Too bad the first didn't sell too well for being the masterpiece it was.
#28 by "WooJin Lee"
2000-08-18 23:01:58
woojin@rpgfan.com http://www.rpgfan.com
I'm taking the person's last comment

"When we came up with this idea we recognized that we live in a world with the Internet. We felt that it was extremely likely that all of the contents of these Add-Ons would be available to customers who did not get the Collector's Edition or Pre-Sell Add-Ons sometime after release. So we do not feel these Add-Ons deny anybody any portion of the Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn game experience."

to mean that other players will have access to these shops when playing on-line with people who own one of these 2 versions.  

I think it makes sense (that is, if that's what he means), and I truthfully don't see how it actually hurts the hardcore crowd, since A)They're the only people who're likely to pre-order either version or get the special version B)They're probably the only people who actually give a damn if they get these "special items or not"
#29 by "Baytor"
2000-08-18 23:12:22
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#5</b> The Pagan God of Lust, "Gimper" wrote:  
<QUOTE>He says it wont disrupt the balance of the game, so I doubt they are the most powerful weapons available. This is just like comic book companies that sell certain issues with five different covers or with foil enhancements. They know that the fanboys will spend the extra money even though it is the same on the inside. People buy it, that is why they keep trying to sell it. </QUOTE>

And where exactly is the comic industry at the moment... why, it's in the toilet.  This sort of thing can create some really ill-will in the long term and should probrably be avoided.

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#30 by "Baytor"
2000-08-18 23:17:01
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#14</b> The Pagan God of Lust, "RandoM" wrote:  
<QUOTE>I already mentioned the other game, doh.
</QUOTE>

No, you didn't... you don't Warmonger well enough to know how his Lith fanboy mind works :)

At least this isn't as pathetic as the KISS collector edition game which prominiently features the promise of an autographed KISS poster.  Turns out the autographs are pre-printed and not real autographs.

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-08-18 23:31:31
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
#30:<quote>At least this isn't as pathetic as the KISS collector edition game which prominiently features the promise of an autographed KISS poster. Turns out the autographs are pre-printed and not real autographs.
</quote>
but, but, you mean those aren't real? Don't tell me my autographed Diablo 2 Collector's Edition manual with that page full of autographs is pre-printed and not real too...
#32 by "Desiato"
2000-08-18 23:57:55
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Not that I'm into pointy-elf-shoe games, but it looks like a ripe invitation for people to figure out a "cheat" to splice that stuff on there -- or at least wholesale warezing for the extra packs.

It is their game, and you'd be an idiot to buy all the versions necessary for all the extra junk -- I say wait a month or two, I'm sure the hexjunkies will have their way with it shortly.

Just reality. You make something "black market" (limited supply, special effort to attain) then people usually revert to the common denominator. (Hack it or warez it, unfortunately..)

They do realize this, right?

Nah...I forgot dollar signs make great blinders.

Desiato<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Warmonger [AI]"
2000-08-19 00:01:55
warmonger87@hotmail.com
Well, we've gone about 20 posts since my first one where I said we'd go 20 posts before mentioning "that other game." Well, here goes: Sanity! Yes, Sanity, the game that I temporarily worship until NOLF is out. Sanity uses a booster pack concept to squeeze about 10 dollars more out of the Joe Consumer. The big debate was about the balance of the talents that you buy, and whether or not you're getting a complete game. Unfortunately, Andy is the only one here who has gotten a hands-on look at Sanity (and $5,000 ;) but even he can't know if the game is balanced or not because no one is playing MP yet. So, if you can wait a month to see what happens with Sanity, we will see how other "add-on's" for games will fare. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "TripleBeam"
2000-08-19 00:16:37
animalre@home.com
This is ripped from the Interplay online store.  Don't know if this will clear things up but it might give you an idea of what the special edition includes.




FREE, with each purchase: Baldurs Gate II: Shadows of Amn T-Shirt
Buy Baldurs Gate II: Shadows of Amn from www.Interplay-Store.com and get the Official T-Shirt for the game and a BONUS CD, FREE of charge!


BONUS CD Includes:
Original Game Development Content
A new character in Copper Coronet
The Sling of Everard
A +5 Sling that doesn't need ammunition but creates +1 sling bullets.
Axe of Hrothgar
A +3 Battle Axe that adds +1 to charisma and wisdom.
#35 by "Baytor"
2000-08-19 00:28:07
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#31</b> The Pagan God of Lust, "PainKilleR-[CE]" wrote:  
<QUOTE>but, but, you mean those aren't real? Don't tell me my autographed Diablo 2 Collector's Edition manual with that page full of autographs is pre-printed and not real too... </QUOTE>

Point taken, you bastard :)

Although I think there's a world a difference between rock stars and computer geeks pretending to be rock stars :

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#36 by "Baytor"
2000-08-19 00:31:49
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
And another thing, most hard-cover novels I buy feature an "autograph" of the author on the front cover under the dust cover, yet I've never heard the book industry try to pass this off as an autograph.  Even the comic book industry doesn't attempt to pass off such things as autographs.

Nice to see that the computer game industry lacks the integrity of other industries.

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#37 by "Andy"
2000-08-19 00:39:41
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#36</b>, Baytor:
<QUOTE>
Nice to see that the computer game industry lacks the integrity of other industries.
</QUOTE>
Shit, you're right! <b><i>Why didn't someone tell me this earlier?!</i></b>
#38 by "crash"
2000-08-19 00:41:18
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
#37, Andy:

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahhaa

yeah, i sprayed diet pepsi all over my monitor laughin. nice one. :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#39 by "Baytor"
2000-08-19 00:43:42
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#37</b> The Pagan God of Lust, "Andy" wrote:  
<QUOTE>Shit, you're right! Why didn't someone tell me this earlier?!
</QUOTE>

Bitch :

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#40 by "Ghost in my Shell"
2000-08-19 01:06:29
I remember back in the early 90s when i was heavily into comics, and the industry just shot itself in the foot when a majority of the comics went to gimmicks to sell books. Such as the multiple covers, multiple covers with holograms, multiple crossovers that were bagged (opening them made them worthless), and finally cameo appearances by Wolverine in every issue...

This was also the same time when they killed of Superman and broke Batman's back.

I have to admit the Batman storyline was way classier and well written, it just became cheese with the abundence of crossover issues and how he "recovers" after Bane broke him.
#41 by "Baytor"
2000-08-19 01:09:47
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#40</b> The Pagan God of Lust, "Ghost in my Shell" wrote:  
<QUOTE>and finally cameo appearances by Wolverine in every issue...
</QUOTE>

Remember the Marvel UK line?  I don't think there was an issue of that entire line that didn't guest-star the X-Men.

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#42 by "Ghost in my Shell"
2000-08-19 01:15:14
Speaking of disloyal, a tear almost came to my eye after reading www.somethingaful.com, he might have been kidding but that did sound serious...
#43 by "crash"
2000-08-19 01:34:46
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<i>#include "disclaimer.h"</i>

[offtopic]
quick note for anyone that missed it on Blue's Out of the Blue yesterday:<quote>
"<b>Story of the Day</b>: Papa Smurf is a Communist (type of comment that could get you sued on some websites). Thanks Carlos."</quote>
gosh. i can't imagine what "some websites" could <i>possibly</i> be referring to.

[/offtopic]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#44 by "Baytor"
2000-08-19 01:41:35
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#43</b> The Pagan God of Lust, "crash" wrote:  
<QUOTE>[offtopic]
quick note for anyone that missed it on Blue's Out of the Blue yesterday:<quote>
"Story of the Day: Papa Smurf is a Communist (type of comment that could get you sued on some websites). Thanks Carlos."</quote>
gosh. i can't imagine what "some websites" could possibly be referring to.

[/offtopic]</QUOTE>

But the Smurfs were obviously gay.

Proof:  Smurfette was the only female Smurf in a village of a hundred males Smurfs, and she could still walk :)

And don't get me started on Gargamel, middle-aged man, living with a cat, obsessed that all these gay little Smurfs won't play with him.  Bah.

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#45 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-08-19 02:04:05
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<b>#42</b> "Ghost in my Shell" wrote...
<QUOTE>
Speaking of disloyal, a tear almost came to my eye after reading www.somethingaful.com, he might have been kidding but that did sound serious... </QUOTE>
Well, if he's paying $1400/month for rent and trying to make a living solely on advertising on a website, well...

---
"My life is a patio of fun."<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#46 by "BarneyQue"
2000-08-19 02:19:03
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#45</b> "Steve Bauman" wrote...
<QUOTE>

<B>#42</B> "Ghost in my Shell" wrote...

<quote>
Speaking of disloyal, a tear almost came to my eye after reading www.somethingaful.com, he might have been kidding but that did sound serious... </quote>
Well, if he's paying $1400/month for rent and trying to make a living solely on advertising on a website, well...

---
"My life is a patio of fun."</QUOTE>

Does that mean it can't be done?  

After all the work I did stealing some html from some gsi sites, and changing the words to create a 'Yes! You too can wear coveralls, and get chicks too.' website and NOW I find this out?  Crap.

I guess my 'history of the peanut butter jar' site is a gonner now too.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#47 by "flamethrower"
2000-08-19 02:30:58
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
<b><u>WWW.UPDATED.WEB</u></b><I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "Andy"
2000-08-19 02:35:15
andy@planetcrap.com http://www.meejahor.com/
<b>#47</b>, flamethrower:
<QUOTE>
<B><U>WWW.UPDATED.WEB</U></B>
</QUOTE>
?
#49 by "Apache"
2000-08-19 02:53:50
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
From reading the full post from Chris Parker it seems clear to me that all you get in the collectors edition are two new non-player-characters who sell really fancy magic items. Each NPC has ten special items, twenty in all. (artifacts/relics?)

Common sense tells me that you will be able to get this 'new code' on the net from any BG fansite...

I'd really like to know WHAT the items are though.
#50 by "BarneyQue"
2000-08-19 02:57:19
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#47</b> "flamethrower" wrote...
<QUOTE>

<B><U>WWW.UPDATED.WEB</U></B></QUOTE>


Dammit.   Tha stuff is pure evil.


My balls hurt just looking at that.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
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