PlanetCrap 6.0!
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
T O P I C
The Inevitable Monthly EULA Topic
August 10th 2000, 08:01 CEST by andy

Sometimes I get a bit too calm for my own good, and I actually start to believe that the world is a nice place. To get myself out of such an undesirable and dangerous mood, what I used to do was either put on a Rage Against The Machine album, or read a software license agreement. Nowadays, thanks to the endless world-of-their-own stupidity of corporate lawyers, Rage albums are all I've got left, because those whacky license agreements just make me laugh...



Earlier this week, my review copy of Sanity arrived, along with a cheque for $5,000 dated a month from now. No comments about the awesome, 98% rated game until I've finished playing it, but the EULA -- written by Fox Interactive, not Monolith -- is a strange beast.

There's nothing immediately 'bad' about it, but some people will naturally be suspicious, or perhaps just baffled...

For a start: "You may not create derivative works of the software, including total conversions or other modifications." This is simple enough, because Monolith doesn't intend Sanity to support mods for security reasons. But what about the now-traditional hacked level editors and player models, etc? Will people even bother, knowing Fox's willingness to set its lawyers loose on unsuspecting gamers? (The term 'Foxed' has become synonymous with having projects cancelled by threat of legal action.)

Or how about this one: "You may not upload the software or any portion thereof (including screen shots, trademarks or other copyrights contained in the software, its packaging and the documentation) to the Internet for any purpose." No screenshots? Fan sites are going to be Fox's most powerful marketing tool on the Net -- why try to kill them off before they've even started?

And finally, from the bizarre to the ridiculous: "You may not use a previous version or copy of the software 90 days after you have received an upgrade or updated version." The question isn't so much 'why', as... WHY?!

Monolith has confirmed that the clause forbidding derivative works is intentional, but said we'd need to talk to Fox about the other points. Can you guess the next bit? Yep, Fox didn't reply. After two days. Not even a "no comment", the little buggers.

C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: The Inevitable Monthly EULA Topic

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
#1 by "Kranrev"
2000-08-10 08:06:36
kranrev@1st.net
Yikes. No screenshots? Thats absurd.
#2 by "Apache"
2000-08-10 08:08:27
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
<quote>Earlier this week, my review copy of Sanity arrived, along with a cheque for $5,000 dated a month from now. No comments about the awesome, 98% rated game until I've finished playing it, but the EULA -- written by Fox Interactive, not Monolith -- is a strange beast.</quote>

Gee, can't wait to read your review.
#3 by "Baytor"
2000-08-10 08:12:19
baytor@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/baytor
<b>#2</b> "Apache" wrote...
<QUOTE>Gee, can't wait to read your review. </QUOTE>

And the money will have nothing to do with his love of the game. Andy has far too much integrity to allow that paltry sum to buy his love :)

I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#4 by "Fox Interactive"
2000-08-10 08:13:55
No Comment
#5 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-08-10 08:14:34
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
LucasArts has a similar EULA specifically regarding the derivative works. In fact, I covered that a bit in an article on mods I did a few months ago... you all read that, right? I covered IP issues, I interviewed tons of mod makers, asked a bunch of developers why they make their games modifiable... blah blah.

I had the guy from LucasArts repeat that they would not allow someone to, say, turn Jedi Knight into a WWII shooter.

---
"My life is a patio of fun."<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#6 by "RzE"
2000-08-10 08:28:23
rze@counter-strike.net http://csnation.counter-strike.net
"You may not use a previous version or copy of the software 90 days after you have received an upgrade or updated version."

Obviously those little update spells or whatever will be cracked, and those cracks will obviously be addressed in updates..

In conclusion: asjgfs nljgsnjlasnfg
#7 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-08-10 08:30:57
Sgt_Hulka@Hulka.com http://www.hulka.com
http://www.icebox.com/viewer_frameset.asp?show=54&episode=206<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#8 by "Apache"
2000-08-10 08:36:05
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
<quote>Earlier this week, my review copy of Sanity arrived, along with a cheque for $5,000 dated a month from now.  </quote>

um, hello?
#9 by "godZero"
2000-08-10 08:37:44
godzero@gmx.de
Andy, did I get this right: you get paid $5000 to review a game?!
Or was it something else?

// me thinking about making another gaming site...mmmm
#10 by "godZero"
2000-08-10 08:38:55
godzero@gmx.de
<b>#8</b> "Apache" wrote...
<QUOTE>um, hello? </QUOTE>

Naahh...can't be that. I hope not.
#11 by "godZero"
2000-08-10 08:46:47
godzero@gmx.de
BTW Apache, your FAKK2 review was fair. I can't quite understand those 90+ from Billy. It is a fine game and I don't regret buying it, but it has a few issues.
#12 by "Apache"
2000-08-10 08:58:03
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
<quote>BTW Apache, your FAKK2 review was fair. I can't quite understand those 90+ from Billy. It is a fine game and I don't regret buying it, but it has a few issues. </quote>

thanks, I tried to be as fair as I could; (esp after seeing some high 95+ scores) not my best writing, but lots of killer screens and posted in a timely manor.
#13 by "Jason Hall"
2000-08-10 09:06:43
Hall@lith.com http://www.lith.com
Andy, you forgot a zero. The check we sent was for $50,000 - not $5000... :)

yeeeee haaaaawwww...!
#14 by "Andy"
2000-08-10 09:15:04
andy@planetcrap.com
You're right! Well what can I say? Congratulations, 99.7% is a very respectable score! And hey, if I find any bugs or other problems (very unlikely) then I think it's probably in gamers' best interests that I don't mention them.

Corruption ROCKS!
#15 by "Apache"
2000-08-10 09:21:04
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
<quote>You're right! Well what can I say? Congratulations, 99.7% is a very respectable score! And hey, if I find any bugs or other problems (very unlikely) then I think it's probably in gamers' best interests that I don't mention them.

Corruption ROCKS! </quote>

Did you, or did you not recieve a cheque for $5,000 dated a month from now?
#16 by "Paul"
2000-08-10 09:32:30
paul@paulbullman.com http://www.paulbullman.com
I guess the question comes down to if they will enforce the EULA or not.

The screenshots clause is a bit crazy, but I guess that's what you get when over paid lawyers decide what should be in a EULA. Then again, maybe the lawyers were jealous of the $200,000 per hour some of the tobacco lawyers earned.

By the way, I'm currently in the process of copyrighting all uses of gray, grey, black, white, red, and green on web sites. Sorry Morn, my lawyers have informed me I can sue you for a violation of my lawfully held copyrights. Please change your site to solid blue.

- Paul
#17 by "godZero"
2000-08-10 09:32:48
godzero@gmx.de
<b>#15</b> "Apache" wrote...
<QUOTE>Did you, or did you not recieve a cheque for $5,000 dated a month from now? </QUOTE>

And: Did you recieve it from Monolith directly?
#18 by "Paul"
2000-08-10 09:50:11
paul@paulbullman.com http://www.paulbullman.com
That's an interesting question, if people are being paid $5,000 for reviewing a product, even a tenth of that, $500, how would their opinion change?

I figured he was joking, but if he wasn't, I might as well stop what I'm doing computer wise, and review 20 or 30 titles a year.

- Paul
#19 by "godZero"
2000-08-10 09:56:38
godzero@gmx.de
Hey, Jason, let me review ALL your games. I'll do it for half the price, and I'll give them 100% straight :-)
#20 by "Revelation"
2000-08-10 09:58:58
s1399796@morpheus.student.gu.edu.au
Hi, this is the first time I have posted anything here, so forgive me if some (most) of my comments are not that relevant to this thread.

After reading the collection of previous topics present on this site, I have found that Monolith is quite hated by the gaming community. Why? Well, from what I was able to gather, it was due to their releases of <b>Shogo: Mobile Armor Division</b> and <b>Blood 2: The Chosen</b>.

Now, at first, I could not understand why so many people hated them. I can proudly say I own both games, and I like them both. I played through both of them without downloading a single patch (I don't have net outside of Uni...) and I liked them. In fact, I would say that they're one of the most engrosing FPS I have ever played.

Before you flame me in the next thread, hear me out and what I have to say.

<b><u>Shogo: MAD</u></b> - The reason most people didn't like this game was because of its genre. It was an anime inspired game, and you really have to be an anime fan to enjoy it. I am a huge <b>Neon Genesis Evangelion</b> fan, and that's why I died and went to heaven when I played it. It was like being in an anime!

However, it did have its fair share of problems which stopped it from beating the sh*t out of the FPS at the time. Firstly, the LithTech engine is a huge system hog. Unreal works decently on my old PC without 3D acceleration, but Shogo choked on it. I had to play it at Uni. (I think that explains why I failed half my subjects ... ;) Secondly, while I didn't download any patches, there were some obvious bugs in it, but they weren't that big of an issue when compared to SiN.

However, the most unforgiveable sin, in my opinion was that <b>IT WAS SO DAMN SHORT!</b> I couldn't believe it when I came to the last boss and then the game ended! Hello? I would like to continue this experience for another five hours, please!

Yet, with these flaws, I played through the game from beginning to end. And I never used the level skip! While I zoomed through Quake II (yawn!) with the level skip, I played Shogo, because it was FUN! Yes, it was!

Also, it's important to remember that Shogo was targetted at a niche market, the giant robot anime fans. It wasn't brought out to convert Quake/Unreal fans! It was just something for us anime fans to try out!

<b><u>Blood 2</u></b> - This was alright, but no way near as fun as Shogo. But like Shogo, it ran like a sack on my PC, so I had to play it at Uni (Damn you, Monolith!). Strangely, it seemed to have more bugs than Shogo, which was weird...
But unlike Shogo, it seemed bigger, maybe because the level architecture wasn't as open. It was good, but it didn't rock my world like Shodo did. ;)

People bash Monolith because Shogo and Blood 2 had a couple of flaws. At least they didn't stuff up like a certain Daikatana did! And credibility! While Raven/Ion Storm/Valve/etc are just paying ID for their engines, Monolith actually went out and made their <b>OWN</b>! So if you bash them again, remember that Valve and Raven didn't have the skill (or manpower) to come up with their own engine, but they had to get them of another company.

By the way, Jason. How much of Shogo was inspired by <b>Neon Genesis Evangelion</b>? And could you, by any chance, give me a signed copy of Shogo? ;)
#21 by "Paul"
2000-08-10 10:15:21
paul@paulbullman.com http://www.paulbullman.com
Revelation:
<quote>
So if you bash them again, remember that Valve and Raven didn't have the skill (or manpower) to come up with their own engine, but they had to get them of another company.
</quote>

Raven and Valve both did an excellent job with the technology they licensed. Especially Valve. Also Valve is currently in the process of writing their own engine for Team Fortress: Brotherhood of Arms or whatever they are calling it now.

Jason Hall has an empire at Monolith whereas Raven and Valve are more focussed. I'm not quite sure how much Raven purchases the id technology for, but my guess would be it's rather reasonable due to the fact they are owned(at least partially) by activision and id is published by activision.

I've played both Shogo, and Blood2. Blood2 started off alright, but after a while I felt a bit disorganized.

Shogo just didn't appeal to me on any level.

I wouldn't go as far as to say Monolith is hated. Sure there are always those loud individuals who voice their opinions, but I would imagine if you survey 100 gamers, 80% or higher wouldn't have much of an opinion either way.


- paul
#22 by "Doormat"
2000-08-10 10:21:54
doormat_mr_c@hotmail.com
Hey, I don't hate monolith!! :)

I won Shogo in a competition, played it through and liked it quite a bit (despite not being an anime fan)..... didn't want to download huge patch for multiplayer though.
#23 by "Jason Hall"
2000-08-10 10:32:07
Hall@lith.com http://www.lith.com
Wow people...

Andy was kidding. Sheesh.

Jace
#24 by "Jason Hall"
2000-08-10 10:36:05
Hall@lith.com http://www.lith.com
Revelation:

Shogo was inspired by many Anime influences, particularly the one you named.
Jace
#25 by "godZero"
2000-08-10 10:46:11
godzero@gmx.de
<b>#20</b> "Revelation" wrote...
<QUOTE>The reason most people didn't like this game was because of its genre. It was an
anime inspired game, and you really have to be an anime fan to enjoy it. I am a
huge <B>Neon Genesis Evangelion</B> fan, and that's why I died and went to
heaven when I played it. It was like being in an anime!

</QUOTE>

I'm not an anime fan, but I really liked Shogo simply because it was a good game.

I really _loved_ Blood2, the only thing that bothered me was the end. I expected some really evil badass for the endfight (devil himself?), but it was just out of concept (and also too easy).
#26 by "Andy"
2000-08-10 10:50:34
andy@planetcrap.com
Damn, I wanted to see how high the Idiot Counter would go!
#27 by "godZero"
2000-08-10 10:53:57
godzero@gmx.de
<b>#26</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>

Damn, I wanted to see how high the Idiot Counter would go!
</QUOTE>

Exactly what we expected, I believe...
#28 by "Andy"
2000-08-10 10:59:08
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#27</b>, godZero:

Yeah, right. :-) Apache spat the dummy!

I'll bet you he was over at Dictionary.com looking up the word "gullible". (Which isn't listed, btw, Apache. Seriously, go and check...)
#29 by "Mark Asher"
2000-08-10 11:01:47
marka@cdmnet.com
You read EULA statements? You probably also read the tags on mattresses, the coupons on your grocery store receipts, and any Bazooka Joe comics you come across.

I just always assumed that EULAs said something about not using the CD as a frisbee or a nunchuk. I mean, cautioning me against making mods? Ha! They're lucky if the thing will actually install and play!
#30 by "Tom Cleghorn"
2000-08-10 11:05:12
tc10@st-andrewsspam?tryit.ac.uk http://www.fisty.com/~tom
<b>Andy:</b>
<quote>Damn, I wanted to see how high the Idiot Counter would go!</quote>
Of course, this is all probably some intricate double-bluff... my money's on Andy's package actually being $500K in used banknotes with a high-class hooker and a small Chinese boy with a palm leaf to fan him all day long... oh, and a copy of Sanity, of course. :)
#31 by "godZero"
2000-08-10 11:08:49
godzero@gmx.de
"Why does it hurt when I pee?"...
#32 by "Apache"
2000-08-10 11:13:26
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
<quote>I'll bet you he was over at Dictionary.com looking up the word "gullible". (Which isn't listed, btw, Apache. Seriously, go and check...) </quote>

In typical Andy bull-doggishness -- I'm still waiting for an answer, you dodgy bastard! I suspect shady activity!
#33 by "vicarious"
2000-08-10 12:06:01
mister_meaner@hotmail.com http://www.vicarious.co.uk/
Erk.
#34 by "godZero"
2000-08-10 13:20:12
godzero@gmx.de
"I probably got the go-no-co-co-cocus"

Zappa is still the best...
#35 by "deadlock"
2000-08-10 13:36:39
deadlock@eircom.net
Zappa's cool aright. Gotta love someone that'd call a song <i>Prelude to the Afternoon of a Sexually Aroused Gasmask.</i> Or how about <i>The Gumbo Variations</i> ? Or <i>It Must Be A Camel</i> ?

deadlock
#36 by "deadlock"
2000-08-10 13:40:50
deadlock@eircom.net
I'm just surprised that the <a href="http://swtc.telefragged.com">Star Wars Total Conversion</a> project for Quake 2 hasn't been Foxed yet. These guys are ready for a release soon apparently, it'll be interesting to see what this is like.

deadlock
#37 by "deadlock"
2000-08-10 13:42:22
deadlock@eircom.net
Andy:<quote>I'll bet you he was over at Dictionary.com looking up the word "gullible". (Which isn't listed, btw, Apache. Seriously, go and check...)</quote>

It is there you damn liar! Oh wait, I see...


deadlock
#38 by "godZero"
2000-08-10 13:45:48
godzero@gmx.de
I just got <i>Joe's garage</i> running...the best lyrics he ever had

<i>"This is the central scrutinizer...again. Charlie met a girl called Mary at the church club. They held hands and excanged pure thoughts. But one night, Mary didn't appear. <b>She was backstage, sucking cock</b> in order to get free tickets for a concert of a semi famous rock band..."</i> and so on. And then comes "Crew slut". Whoaaa...
#39 by "Flamethrower"
2000-08-10 14:37:19
blah http://blah
Andy,

Fear not, for you are in Scotland. It is illegal to make, request, or attempt to enforce unreasonable contracts.

No screenshots? You are allowed to reproduce certain % of material for reviews and news purposes.

Not allowed to have pre-patched games? Tripe. Legally binding that you must upgrade and discard? Unreasonable (especially if you find a previous version, say the one out the box, to be preferable.

<quote>I mean [Monolith] cautioning me against making mods? Ha! They're lucky if the thing will actually install and play! </quote>

LOL!


C'mon guys. <b>How many of us give a fkkk about the EULA of a game very, very few of us, or anyone else, are ever going to play?</b>

Sanity? Rabbit Hunter? Bruce Fortsythe's Interactive Golfing Guide To St. Andrew's Old Course? It's not like these titles affect <b>us</b>.
#40 by "RahvinTaka"
2000-08-10 14:48:26
donaldp@mad.scientist.com
<b>#21</b> "Paul A. Bullman" wrote...
<QUOTE>Raven and Valve both did an excellent job with the technology they licensed.
Especially Valve. Also Valve is currently in the process of writing their own
engine for Team Fortress: Brotherhood of Arms or whatever they are calling it
now.

Jason Hall has an empire at Monolith whereas Raven and Valve are
more focussed. I'm not quite sure how much Raven purchases the id technology
for, but my guess would be it's rather reasonable due to the fact they are
owned(at least partially) by activision and id is published by activision. </QUOTE>

I suspect Valve is about building an empire. They have all the signs. Got a hit - well supported - well liked, aquiring talent to cover all bases. They managed to nab a lot of the best talent from community in skills that are less touted but none the less vital (like tools programmers). My bet is that they are eventually going to be the MS of gaming community. At least based on past behaviour :P<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#41 by "Whisp"
2000-08-10 14:51:14
whisp_@hotmail.com
<b>#39</b> "Flamethrower" wrote...
<QUOTE>Fear not, for you are in Scotland. It is illegal to make, request, or attempt to
enforce unreasonable contracts.
</QUOTE>

Ah, but those of in the US have to watch out for them, because our lawmakers are busy codifying EULA into law, so the software companies don't have to worry about them any more.  For example, I attend school in Virginia, home of the idiots who were the proud architects of the first passage of the USCIT, or whatever the hell that piece of BS is called.  That bit about no reviews - from what I understand, it's in there.  I'll give it 10 years before the corporations legally own us, rather than just running our live like they do now.  The said part is our legislators are so stupid they think they are doing us a favor.


-Whisp
#42 by "wayfinder"
2000-08-10 16:13:52
http://www.azure-music.com
#29

<quote>You read EULA statements? You probably also read the tags on mattresses, the coupons on your grocery store receipts, and any Bazooka Joe comics you come across.
</quote>

I bet this is why he knew the coffee would be fucking hot in his lap.

He couldn't sue though, with that reputation.

Be smart - be dumb (no offense derek)




---
way-fu, exercise today!
#43 by "Gabe"
2000-08-10 17:08:32
gakruger@hotmail.com
Seems strange to put joking parts in an article that also purports to disclose facts. Why are we expected to parse when Andy is making stuff up and when he is telling the "truth"? I never thought he actually got money, but I do not want to hear the argument "Don't read into what I say, just read what I say!" again.
#44 by "El Asso Wipo"
2000-08-10 17:09:06
stupadasso@hotmail.com http://www.whitehouse.com
<b>#34</b> "godZero" wrote...
<QUOTE>Zappa is still the best... </QUOTE>

Catholic Girls, with their tiny little mustache.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#45 by "err head"
2000-08-10 17:22:10
err_head@yahoo.com
<b>#39</b> "Flamethrower" wrote...
<QUOTE>


C'mon guys. <B>How many of us give a fkkk about the EULA of a game very, very few of us, or anyone else, are ever going to play?</B>
</QUOTE>

The better question is how many of us give a fkkk about the EULA on games we buy and play?  I put EULA's in the same catagory as speed limits, laws against self administered narcotics, and laws against consensual sex. catch me if you can fascist pigdog lackeys of the corporate state!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#46 by "RahvinTaka"
2000-08-10 17:43:40
donaldp@mad.scientist.com
<b>#45</b> "err head" wrote...
<QUOTE> <b>#39</b> "Flamethrower" wrote...
 <quote>
 
 
 C'mon guys. <B>How many of us give a fkkk about the EULA of a game very, very few of us, or anyone else, are ever going to play?</B>  
 </quote>
 
 The better question is how many of us give a fkkk about the EULA on games we buy and play?  I put EULA's in the same catagory as speed limits, laws against self administered narcotics, and laws against consensual sex. catch me if you can fascist pigdog lackeys of the corporate state!</QUOTE>

LOL !!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#47 by "BloodKnight"
2000-08-10 17:52:08
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
<b>El Asso Wipo</b> (#44):
<QUOTE>Catholic Girls, with their tiny little mustache. </QUOTE>

Umm..your mom isn't a good example of a Catholic.  I don't know a female Catholic that has a mustache, sick asshole

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "El Asso Wipo"
2000-08-10 17:57:04
billysawhurock@hotmail.com http://www.whitehouse.com
<b>#47</b> "BloodKnight" wrote...
<QUOTE>I don't know a female Catholic that has a mustache</QUOTE>

That's from Joe's Garage by Frank "Fucking Genius" Zappa

and to Quote Zappa again off that album
"Fuck Me You Ugly Son of a Bitch"<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#49 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-08-10 18:10:16
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>BloodKnight</b> (#47):
<QUOTE>Umm..your mom isn't a good example of a Catholic. I don't know a female Catholic
that has a mustache, sick asshole
</QUOTE>

*grits teeth*
Just put the troll in your ignore list.

--

Warren Marshall - Professional Nuisance<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#50 by "BloodKnight"
2000-08-10 18:29:22
bloodknight@somethingawful.com
*Adds the vile troll to his ignore list*

Done

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: The Inevitable Monthly EULA Topic

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
P O S T   A   C O M M E N T

You need to be logged in to post a comment here. If you don't have an account yet, you can create one here. Registration is free.
C R A P T A G S
Simple formatting: [b]bold[/b], [i]italic[/i], [u]underline[/u]
Web Links: [url=www.mans.de]Cool Site[/url], [url]www.mans.de[/url]
Email Links: [email=some@email.com]Email me[/email], [email]some@email.com[/email]
Simple formatting: Quoted text: [quote]Yadda yadda[/quote]
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
There are currently 0 people browsing this site. [Details]