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E3 is Dead!  Long Live E3!
July 9th 2007, 20:04 CEST by Hugin

E3 on PC, the booth babes are gone, but the sweet funk of gamer excitement remains!

It this the point where PS3 begins to turn things around?  

Will Nintendo bring anything of real excitement to the hardcore to the table, or will it just be all casual and party games?  

Will Halo 3 be awesome, or super awesome?  

Will Killzone 2 actually live up to the debut trailer?  

Any titles you're looking forward to seeing?  

What game will be best in show, as far as you're concerned?

Which company will have the best overall showing?

Discuss it here!
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Home » Topic: E3 is Dead!  Long Live E3!

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#1 by jjz
2007-07-09 20:09:00
Wasn't me.
#2 by CheesyPoof
2007-07-09 20:09:07
Halo 3 won't be any kind of awesome.

I don't know what to expect from this E3. As someone that never went and only read previews I can expect it won't be much different. Hopefully it'll be fewer games that are more close to completion.

<Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
#3 by Greg
2007-07-09 20:10:08
I'm not even sure what E3 is supposed to mean to me this year.

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#4 by m0nty
2007-07-09 20:10:32
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
This is NOT what democracy looks like.
#5 by Matt Perkins
2007-07-09 20:11:12
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/

It this the point where PS3 begins to turn things around?  

Not quite yet. They need actual killer apps to be released in the wild a bit before any non fanboi hardcore gamer will take them seriously. And we all know hardcore gamers make or break a system.


Will Nintendo bring anything of real excitement to the hardcore to the table, or will it just be all casual and party games?  

I don't know, will they? I'll buy a Wii when it has a library I'm interested in playing beyond Zelda. So far, no go.


Will Halo 3 be awesome, or super awesome?  

Mediocre to good.


Will Killzone 2 actually live up to the debut trailer?  

I'm biased here, so I'll say it's going to fucking rock!


Any titles you're looking forward to seeing?  

Are the showing games at E3 this year?


What game will be best in show, as far as you're concerned?

I honestly don't even know what will be there this year. This new smaller E3 pretty much flew well below my radar all together. I guess I'll be interested when Kotaku and QT3 start posting things...


Which company will have the best overall showing?

Will Blizzard be there?

My intelligence, then, is not absolute but is a function of the society I live in

"I'm not sure it's possible to make a "subtle" jab at Matt's writing ability." - Ergo
#6 by Ergo
2007-07-09 20:11:33
E3 has never meant anything to me, so it's kind of moot.

You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religions. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough. --Aldous Huxley

DVDs
#7 by Greg
2007-07-09 20:12:13
I went way back in 2000, outside of the too much running around, I had a good time.

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#8 by Chunkstyle
2007-07-09 20:12:16
PS3 will start its turn around, which is sad, as it means the industry will learn nothing.  Microsoft will drop prices $50, and announce an Xbox360 Elite/Halo 3 bundle for $499.  No games will feature zombie monkeys, because developers hate gamers.

Game Developers: Don't forget the zombie monkeys.
#9 by Hugin
2007-07-09 20:13:15
lmccain@nber.org
Predictions:  

Sony does indeed impress, overall.  Heavenly Sword is looking pretty awesome now.  My suspicion is that Killzone 2 will be surprisingly good. Lair will be a bit of a letdown. I want to know if there will be a whiff of a PS3 Wipeout game, or more about White Knight Story.

MS does fine, although Halo 3 will be a bit less of a hit than they're expecting.  Please let Mass Effect good.

Nintendo does more party games.
#10 by m0nty
2007-07-09 20:19:02
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Note to all non-Hugin lifeforms: do not encourage Hugin's obsession over Heavenly Sword.
#11 by Hugin
2007-07-09 20:21:32
lmccain@nber.org
Honestly, this is a new thing for me.  I've been all about Mass Effect and Bioshock.  But the latest HS movies have been really impressive.
#12 by CheesyPoof
2007-07-09 20:24:38
Never heard of it. Got any good links?

And I do wonder if MS will announce a 360 price cut.

<Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
#13 by Matt Perkins
2007-07-09 20:26:04
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I'm all about NFL2k8, which comes out in mere days, Bioshock, which will be a niche hit only I think, even though it'll be a good game, I think...and Mass Effect, though I hear it won't have light sabers...that's a huge hit.

My intelligence, then, is not absolute but is a function of the society I live in

"I'm not sure it's possible to make a "subtle" jab at Matt's writing ability." - Ergo
#14 by Jamie
2007-07-09 20:29:40
jamie@jmadigan.net http://www.jmadigan.net
I covered E3 for GameSpy for 5 years and loved it. It was just a big, exhausting, pointless, screaming mess and it was great. That said, it's probably better than it's changed form. I also don't really care about it because I no longer feel the need to keep up with gaming minutia. I will also say that I like the new format because it gave birth to the term "Min-E3."

#15 by Marsh Davies
2007-07-09 20:38:36
www.verbalchilli.com
Great topic Hugin!

I think E3 is going to be good this year, actually. Despite all the bluster about it being dead, there are going to be plenty of scoops and reveals there, and its going to be quiet, intimate and more business-like. Hands-on Assassin's Creed? I'm sold. Unfortunately, other more important people than myself weren't sold, and not many have been allowed to go. That I'm still posting should be an indication that I wasn't one of the lucky few.

#16 by Hugin
2007-07-09 20:46:50
lmccain@nber.org
#12 by CheesyPoof

Never heard of it. Got any good links?


It's an action fighter, like God of War or Devil May Cry or whatever.  It's just got really high production values, lots of music and acting talent, etc.

This gametrailers page has interviews, trailers, gameplay footage, etc.
#17 by m0nty
2007-07-09 20:56:50
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
This is called enabling, people.
#18 by Shadarr
2007-07-09 21:09:48
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I don't care about E3 because I don't care about previews and hype.

Horrible song of the nonce: Left Behind
#19 by Jibble
2007-07-09 21:17:47
I've heard word of Sony announcing a price drop on the PS3 60GB edition. If true, it seems sort of like an admission of failure considering how soon that move would come after launch.

Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.

Blog. 203 lbs.  23 to go.
#20 by jjohnsen
2007-07-09 21:25:18
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Sony has already dropped the PS3 by $100, the new price starts next week.  This was confirmed by Sony last night and Circuit City and Target already have it in their ads for next week.  It's still not enough, they need to drop it another $50-100.  And if Microsoft is smart they'll drop the Xbox slightly to make sure they're nowhere near Sony's price point.

Nintendo doesn't need to have a good show, they'll still be selling out a year after launch.  Add a few more Wii Sports-type (Wii Music, Wii Fitness) 2games and they'll surpass Microsoft and Sony in combined sells within a year.

I want to see more Bioshock, Mass Effect and Halo 3.  I want to see Gears of War for the PC and I want to see enough Mario Galaxy to understand what the hell you're actually doing in the game.

Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore.  -LP       Johnsen Family
#21 by jjohnsen
2007-07-09 21:25:50
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Oh, and Spore will be PC Game of Show for this year and the next 5 years.

Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore.  -LP       Johnsen Family
#22 by BobJustBob
2007-07-09 21:26:57
What a completely trollish topic.

Nintendo will blow everyone away, Microsoft will perform as expected, and Sony will disappoint. In other words, the status quo will prevail.

"Games are not novels, and the ways in which they harbor novelistic aspirations are invariably the least interesting thing about them." - Steven Johnson
#23 by Jibble
2007-07-09 21:39:11
Wow. I bet the Sony fanboys are going to be pissed that they dropped the price that much eight months after launch.

Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.

Blog. 203 lbs.  23 to go.
#24 by Marsh Davies
2007-07-09 21:39:45
www.verbalchilli.com
I expect Microsoft will drop the price of the 360 this autumn when they roll out the new model.

jj is totally right about Nintendo. It doesn't matter what happens with regards to E3 for them. In fact, industry events are more a less an irrelevance to Nintendo now. Whilst MS and Sony struggle to make their units more cost-effective, Nintendo have never produced a piece of hardware that they've sold at a loss. The Wii continues to do ridiculously well, the DS already outsells every other console handheld or otherwise, and Brain Age 2 will shift more units in its first week to menopausal women than Halo 3 will sell in a decade.

Talking of Halo 3... I place my hat in the super awesome category. Microsoft's line-up looks really very healthy indeed.

Sony, meanwhile, need that kill app so badly. Really badly. I think we'll see a lot of solid products at E3, but nothing that makes people's jaws drop.

#25 by Caryn
2007-07-09 21:42:36
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
I covered E3 for GameSpy for 5 years and loved it. It was just a big, exhausting, pointless, screaming mess and it was great.

I too covered five E3s, and my reaction to them all ran about the same:

Day 1, pre-show set-up, floor is closed: "Man, booths are getting set up, sound systems are starting to rock, this is so much FUN!"

Day 2, opening day: "Lots of people. But look at all the cool shit! I can't wait to check out this game, and this game, and that game over there!"

Day 3: "Are there more people than last year? Because it's getting hot in here. Wait, what? I'm sorry, what did you say? I can't hear you."

Day 4: "Jesus fucking Christ, don't you people understand the concept of ACTUALLY MOVING WHILE IN A WALKWAY?! OH GOD, I just got nerd sweat on me. No, no I can't speak any fucking louder because my voice is completely gone from having to shout over this shit. And it doesn't matter because I've gone completely deaf in one ear and the throbbing headache I have means I can only hear my own heart pounding in the other."

Day 5, the drive home: (pure, sweet, blessed silence in the car)

Current novel word count: 26,800 words (I'm hoping by putting it here it helps motivate me)
#26 by Jibble
2007-07-09 21:46:48
I seem to recall both E3s I went to deteriorating into a decibel war, each day a little louder than the previous one as companies ratcheted up Attraction Mode.

Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.

Blog. 203 lbs.  23 to go.
#27 by Jamie
2007-07-09 21:48:40
jamie@jmadigan.net http://www.jmadigan.net
Caryn, would I be right in assuming that E3 was much different for a developer than a member of the press? You've done both. I usually got my assignments and got through them, then spent a few hours total of free time just geeking out. I imagine it'd be different if you were stuck at the booth doing the same thing over and over again.

#28 by Hugin
2007-07-09 22:13:23
lmccain@nber.org
#19 by Jibble

I've heard word of Sony announcing a price drop on the PS3 60GB edition. If true, it seems sort of like an admission of failure considering how soon that move would come after launch.

#23 by Jibble

Wow. I bet the Sony fanboys are going to be pissed that they dropped the price that much eight months after launch.


It's interesting to note that the original Playstation price dropped at the same time, and the price drop was a larger percentage of the original price.  Sony has had a rough launch year for the PS3 so far, to be sure, but calling a console a failure before its first year on the market is over seems silly to me.
#29 by Mank
2007-07-09 22:13:43
I want to see more Bioshock, Mass Effect and Halo 3.  I want to see Gears of War for the PC...<snip>


I concur.

And Spore is the biggest kept non secret since DNF. Delayed at least once already, so things can only get better??

#30 by Jibble
2007-07-09 22:15:15
I worked one year as amateur press and one year as a pseudo-professional (as in, someone was paying me for writing). The only differences were access (very slight difference) and food (free at the Gameshark booth, but not plentiful).

Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.

Blog. 203 lbs.  23 to go.
#31 by Jibble
2007-07-09 22:25:40
True enough, Hugin, though I tend to think of the Playstation 2 as Sony's shining golden example (even though the PSX did very well). It took them a year and a half to drop the price on the PS2, and they did it a day before the Xbox price dropped.

I just find the two cycles interesting, because Sony has basically ended up in the same spot MS was in (as far as console birth order). It seems like they're basically just correcting the mistake of offering the 20GB version (which they discontinued, apparently) in the first place.

Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.

Blog. 203 lbs.  23 to go.
#32 by Hugin
2007-07-09 22:34:07
lmccain@nber.org
My main concern with PS3 pricing is the idea that by adding the 80GB Motostorm bundle SKU, there remains a perception that PS3= 600 dollars.  

500 for the 60 compared to the 400 dollar 360 or 480 for the Elite looks like a decent enough value, even if MS drops 50 bucks on both during E3 or this fall (forget the "I'll only buy a console when it's 199" people, they're irrelevant to the first year of sales for either console this generation).

But the meme for the PS3 isn't that it's a bad value per se, it's that it's too expensive.  Maintaining a 600 dollar SKU helps that meme stay alive even if the cheaper model has everything people need.
#33 by eggbert
2007-07-09 22:38:48
http://www.stuffresearch.com
I actually wish they still had the 20GB version. While the 360 core was crippled to uselessness, the 20GB PS3 was actually a viable option, especially given that the hard drive is user upgradeable. If that had dropped to $400 today I'd probably pick one up after work.
#34 by Jibble
2007-07-09 22:53:50
I was hoping they'd learn from this fiasco that users want ONE version of the console. I understand the upsell mentality of the package deal, but it sends a terrible message to consumers.

Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.

Blog. 203 lbs.  23 to go.
#35 by Matt Perkins
2007-07-09 23:26:34
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Jibble (#34):
I was hoping they'd learn from this fiasco that users want ONE version of the console. I understand the upsell mentality of the package deal, but it sends a terrible message to consumers.

I'm betting about a bajillion dollars it'll only get worse in the next generation and even further in this generation.

My intelligence, then, is not absolute but is a function of the society I live in

"I'm not sure it's possible to make a "subtle" jab at Matt's writing ability." - Ergo
#36 by Gunp01nt
2007-07-09 23:40:53
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Is it just me, or are console makers selling less consoles altogether? The Dreamcast was scrapped as a failure after less than 2 years, and that sold 10 million units. Now it seems the 360's growth is stagnating at 10 million and the PS3 may not even make that mark, who knows.

Maybe people are just too happy with their PS2's and are calling it a day. Can't blame them.

And there used to be a way to stick it to the Man. It was called rock 'n roll, but guess what, oh no, the Man ruined that, too, with a little thing called MTV!
#37 by Matt Perkins
2007-07-09 23:41:55
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
new 360 details

Go Falcon!

My intelligence, then, is not absolute but is a function of the society I live in

"I'm not sure it's possible to make a "subtle" jab at Matt's writing ability." - Ergo
#38 by gaggle
2007-07-10 00:09:29
Gun, you wouldn't be the first to point out that the move to next-gen gaming has been premature. I don't know how much I personally agree, I thought the 360 was pretty well-timed.




I understand the upsell mentality of the package deal, but it sends a terrible message to consumers.

It does? Like what? I think you're out of touch with reality there. If the 360 Core had included a small HDD I wouldn't even have had a problem with two SKUs. I don't think it's a conceptual problem, it only becomes a problem when the versions have basic functionality-differences (i.e. every 360 game has to work without a harddrive. Not a smart move). But offering two choices, eh, I accept that. And I don't believe Matt's pet peeve of it growing out-of-control worse either.

"a four-dimensional real vector space equipped with a nondegenerate, symmetric bilinear form."
#39 by jjohnsen
2007-07-10 00:14:21
http://www.johnsenclan.com
#28 by Hugin


It's interesting to note that the original Playstation price dropped at the same time, and the price drop was a larger percentage of the original price.  Sony has had a rough launch year for the PS3 so far, to be sure, but calling a console a failure before its first year on the market is over seems silly to me.

I think it just seems strange because the 360 is twice as old as the PS3, and hasn't dropped it's price.  The Wii has no need to drop it's price and is the same age.  It makes it look like Sony doesn't know what they are doing.  Anyone could have told them they weren't going to sell much at that price, but they acted like people would because it was a luxury item.
#32 by Hugin


But the meme for the PS3 isn't that it's a bad value per se, it's that it's too expensive.  Maintaining a 600 dollar SKU helps that meme stay alive even if the cheaper model has everything people need.


Yeah, that's a strange decision.  I'd think better to drop the most expensive sku by $75 and pack in Motorstorm.

Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore.  -LP       Johnsen Family
#40 by Greg
2007-07-10 00:16:33
The rule about every 360 game being able to work without harddrive is a lie. There is at least one game out there that *requires* the harddrive, as there is no way the game could run without it. (FFXI)

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#41 by jjohnsen
2007-07-10 00:18:56
http://www.johnsenclan.com
#37 by Matt Perkins

new 360 details

Go Falcon!

Meh, if it leads to a lower price, that's good.  If it leads to a smaller form factor like the revamed PS2, who cares?

Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore.  -LP       Johnsen Family
#42 by Greg
2007-07-10 00:25:38
As long as they don't take away capabilities (like the revamped PS2 wasn't able to use the hard drive attachment) it'll be fine.

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(@)'(@)"""*|(@)*(@)*****(@)
#43 by Shadarr
2007-07-10 00:28:34
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
It makes it look like Sony doesn't know what they are doing.

It looks like they made a huge tactical error by completely ignoring cost when they were designing the system, and are just now realizing that consumers won't buy a $600 game machine just because it says PlayStation.  It also looks like a desperation move to me, where they're cutting the price as much as they can afford to and it still won't be enough.

Horrible song of the nonce: Left Behind
#44 by gaggle
2007-07-10 00:52:49
#40 by Greg
The rule about every 360 game being able to work without harddrive is a lie. There is at least one game out there that *requires* the harddrive, as there is no way the game could run without it. (FFXI)


Any other games though? Exception proving the rule and all that. I didn't follow that game at all, but I wonder if Microsoft was pissed because of Squenix's decision or if any sort of powerplay took place behind the curtains.

"a four-dimensional real vector space equipped with a nondegenerate, symmetric bilinear form."
#45 by gaggle
2007-07-10 00:54:30
And I was lead to believe the 80 gig PS3 is bundled with Motorstorm, so it's not "just 20 gigs for $100".

"a four-dimensional real vector space equipped with a nondegenerate, symmetric bilinear form."
#46 by Greg
2007-07-10 01:45:34
No powerplay. After all, Microsoft approved it. It was initially slated for the original Xbox, but then got pushed back to the 360.

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#47 by Mank
2007-07-10 03:23:53
All things aside, MS is way ahead of Sony in terms of presence, and I dont mean marketshare either. The things that MS are doing in the online spectrum to enhance a players experience puts it head and shoulders above what Sony is accomplishing with the PS3. MS seems to be in the position of setting the standard by which future consoles will be judged. Sony seems to be playing catch-up.

#48 by None-1a
2007-07-10 08:47:37
#20 by jjohnsen
And if Microsoft is smart they'll drop the Xbox slightly to make sure they're nowhere near Sony's price point.


As long as the PS3 cost more and has a higher priced SKU available I wouldn't expect MS to drop the price. Remember they're still trying to cover the Zune launch (it's counted under the same division) and those hardware failures. I'd expect them to release the new hardware and ride for a while trying to recoup those costs until Sony hit's the $400 mark (probably by mid-summer next year).

#38 by gaggle
I don't think it's a conceptual problem, it only becomes a problem when the versions have basic functionality-differences (i.e. every 360 game has to work without a harddrive. Not a smart move).


It wasn't a problem at all, in fact seeing what happened with the 20 gig PS3 and why it was canned I'd say it was pure genius. Sure it put some more constraints on developers but it also created a perception that lower cost SKUs where severely crippled. Sony could be in a price war with the 360 now if they still had the lower cost SKU but they sold like crap because retailers refused to carry the things (they didn't want a 360 repeat where they where stuck with a load of cores nobody wanted while premiums where selling out).

As for the price drop being a desperation move, while I have no doubt they're going through with the cut because of how it's selling Sony did build in a lot of future cost cutting measures that allow for quick price drops. IBM has along said flexibility in process sizes was one of Cells design goals, hardware back-wards compatibility has long been slated for removal, and Sony tends to license out production for early runs while their own cababilities are being switched over.
#49 by Jibble
2007-07-10 15:14:55
I've heard things about Spiderman 3 having some sort of horrible install program on the PS3. Honestly, if having the CrippleCore out there means that will never happen on the 360, I see it as a good thing.

Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.

Blog. 203 lbs.  23 to go.
#50 by Jibble
2007-07-10 15:18:41
Also, FFXI is a horrible example. Everyone knows Final Fantasy fanboys would buy a new controller, video cable, hard drive, and special wireless chocobo hat if it meant they could play the next game in the series. Holding it up as an example that developers could easily require the hard drive is a pretty flimsy argument, especially if applied to majority of titles available.

Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.

Blog. 203 lbs.  23 to go.
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