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T O P I C
Blizzard Killz Da Skillz
August 7th 2000, 04:23 CEST by andy

The company that everyone loves to love, Blizzard, is suffering fierce criticism over major changes made in the latest Diablo II update.



The complaint against Blizzard is that anyone playing as the Barbarian or Necromancer, or to a lesser extent the Paladin, are now left with characters that are vastly weaker than they were before the update. In some cases, this will mean that many weeks worth of playing time, building up experience points, will have been wasted.

One player explained to me:

Blizzard created a huge problem for Battle.net players, since people who've spent the last month building up a high level character, and dumped their skill points into something like [the Whirlwind skill] now have a weaker skill and their skill points can't be reassigned, hence, negating all that work people did.

Another player said much the same thing:

Considering that it balances the game, it might be OK, but it is definitely not OK if you have invested a month and a half in your character, built him with care to wake up one day and find that it is completely useless because the skills you were developing (the more powerful ones for sure) were made disproportionately weaker, to the point that you can't really use them and you have to start your character over.

Yes, it's all game and is meant for fun, but paying 50$ and (more important) investing over a month playing time in the game to have your character made useless by some patch (which everyone expected to be addressing performance issues only), is really dissapointing.

I lost my faith in Blizzard as a gamer, and I see that most of the players have dropped the game, too. They simply don't have enough resource to start it all over again (and who knows, maybe the next patch would render their new chars useless again?).

Even one Blizzard employee, their web site administrator Geoff Fraizer, posted a message on the company's forum explaining his personal, unofficial viewpoint:

Skills should not be balanced after the game comes out. I'm all for Bug Fixes however. If skills are changed, I would like to see my skill points refunded to me.

Blizzard also stands accused of what is effectively a conspiracy to deceive players, by not mentioning the most major changes in the patch documentation. An unofficial Diablo II site has posted an analysis of what changes were made in the patch, along with this comment on Blizzard's secrecy:

You've most likely seen the Readme, which you can review here. But many more things have been altered than we can see in that document, or even in the various posts by Geoff Fraizer on the Battle.net Forums, where he discusses game changes. Even all those published on the Blizzard Patch Information Page, greatly expanded this evening, don't reflect the full nature of today's patch.

The conclusion that some players are jumping to is that Blizzard released Diablo II without proper testing, and having now 'broken' the game for a great many players have engaged in a form of cover-up rather than admit their mistakes.

It hasn't been possible to contact anyone at Blizzard about this story because their web site only lists sales and support addresses, both of which are apparently unmanned at weekend. We'll keep you posted on any response we receive...

C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Blizzard Killz Da Skillz

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#1 by "FerrettKing"
2000-08-07 04:31:09
ebauman@tampabay.rr.com
newbie first?
#2 by "Avery Swarts"
2000-08-07 04:31:32
shdtre@ipa.net
huh?
#3 by "G-Man"
2000-08-07 04:32:50
jonmars@shiftlock.org http://www.shiftlock.org
This had better not turn into another class-action suit re: UO.

<b>#Main Post</b> "andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>Considering that it balances the game, it might be OK, but it is definitely not OK if you have invested a month and a half in your character, built him with care to wake up one day and find that it is completely useless because the skills you were developing (the more powerful ones for sure) were made disproportionately weaker, to the point that you can't really use them and you have to start your character over.</QUOTE>
Useless? Start over entirely? Hrm.

<b>#Main Post</b> "andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>I lost my faith in Blizzard as a gamer, and I see that most of the players have dropped the game, too. </QUOTE>
Sounds like someone is blinded by his obsession.

<b>#Main Post</b> "andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>Blizzard also stands accused of what is effectively a conspiracy to deceive players, by not mentioning the most major changes in the patch documentation. </QUOTE>
This is very likely due the extremely competitive online multiplayer model this game features. Telling everyone that you've changed XXX rare spawn algorythm to such and such would sort of defeat the purpose. Most MMORPGs neglect to give their players the underlying details of their game's mechanics (and thus do not report on changes to them in detail).

For the record I haven't played very much Diablo II, so I could very well be wrong. But I've played enough MMORPGs to spot the petition frenzy.

 - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#4 by "None-1a"
2000-08-07 04:33:03
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
I'd be interested in hearing what Dnet players think about this in a week when the changes have had time to settle in a bit, and gets back down to if the new balnace acctauly worked.

<b>#1</b> "FerrettKing" wrote...
<QUOTE>
newbie first? </QUOTE>

Damn must type faster.

--
None-1a, Any one bitching about spelling just can't argue with what I said.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#5 by "Andy"
2000-08-07 04:37:28
andy@planetcrap.com
When people quote *quotes* from the topic, could you please indicate that they are quotes, not something I've said? Thank you.
#6 by "Apache"
2000-08-07 04:39:19
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
Barbs and necros are disgustingly over-balanced; load up bnet and look at the top ranked ladder players. Take a wild guess which classes they are...?

They've been pampered long enough with those skills, time to come back to earth and play with us mortals! (Paladins:)
#7 by "Andy"
2000-08-07 04:44:25
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#6</b>, Apache:
<QUOTE>
They've been pampered long enough with those skills, time to come back to earth and play with us mortals! (Paladins:)
</QUOTE>
Haven't Paladins also been hit by the patch?
#8 by "Apache"
2000-08-07 04:46:17
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
not enough to whine about, no. (at least not my paladin)
#9 by "FerrettKing"
2000-08-07 04:46:26
ebauman@tampabay.rr.com
Not that the opinions of a simple consumer are worth crap, but I must say if you take a look at the way the Everquest forums go, I wouldn't be surprised if threats or lawsuits, riots, pillaging, etc. against Blizzard will be running rampant in short order.  Sometimes I wonder if MMORPG publishers might be better off leaving well enough alone, or perhaps instituting changes on a more gradual basis so as not to be noticed.  The vast majority of gamers who are satisfied remain silent (presumably PLAYING the games), whereas the bulk of the kvetching is done by pre-pubescent losers with too much time on their hands and a penchant for melodrama.  I don't even play Everquest and I still read the message boards now and then to get a chuckle out some of the flaming on them.

By the way, I hope you all don't take too unkindly to new posters.  I've read 'Crap for several months now, and couldn't help throwing my two cents in when I saw a chance to be 'first.'  I am a nobody, just an avid long time gamer who made some unfortunate career choices and now is too entrenched in practicing law (yuck) to get out and start again in the computer industry.  And no, I don't sue people for libel :)
#10 by "G-Man"
2000-08-07 04:49:35
jonmars@shiftlock.org http://www.shiftlock.org
<b>#5</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>When people quote *quotes* from the topic, could you please indicate that they are quotes, not something I've said? Thank you.</QUOTE>
Sorry I actually thought about this while I was writing it, but couldn't really think of a better way of handling it, since you never actually named the players you quoted. But hopefully people will be intelligent enough to realize where the quotes originated from by reading the topic.

 - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#11 by "Apache"
2000-08-07 04:49:44
apache@voodooextreme.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
the only thing they altered was the conversion skill (that means if you have it enabled you have a certain low percentage chance to charm a monster upon striking it for a certain period of time) which I never used in the first place.
#12 by "Andy"
2000-08-07 04:54:01
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#9</b>, FerrettKing:
<QUOTE>
By the way, I hope you all don't take too unkindly to new posters.
</QUOTE>
Welcome. :-)
<QUOTE>
I am a nobody, just an avid long time gamer who made some unfortunate career choices and now is too entrenched in practicing law
</QUOTE>
A lawyer? A *proper* lawyer?

Stick around my friend, you're going to be <i>veeeery</i> useful!
#13 by "None-1a"
2000-08-07 05:00:15
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#9</b> "FerrettKing" wrote...
<QUOTE>By the way, I hope you all don't take too unkindly to new posters. </QUOTE>

Nope newbies are cool, just have to keep the running gag of making fun of the "first" post alive.

<b>#9</b> "FerrettKing" wrote...
<QUOTE>... practicing law (yuck) to get out and start
again in the computer industry. And no, I don't sue people for libel :) </QUOTE>

I agree with andy on that, that's giong to prove usefull aroudn here (hay didn't we scare our last lawyer away, or what did happen to twitch).

<b>#9</b> "FerrettKing" wrote...
<QUOTE>I wouldn't be surprised if threats or lawsuits, riots, pillaging, etc. against
Blizzard will be running rampant in short order. </QUOTE>

Then again I'd give it a few more months with out some form of balnace comming up before the others started bitching.

--
None-1a, Any one bitching about spelling just can't argue with what I said.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#14 by "Mister Man"
2000-08-07 05:01:11
veery?
#15 by "BarneyQue"
2000-08-07 05:04:54
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#14</b> "Mister Man" wrote...
<QUOTE>

veery? </QUOTE>

No, what he said was 'veeeery', which has obvious meaning in context unlike your typo.  :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#16 by "Andy"
2000-08-07 05:05:07
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#14</b>, Mister Man:
<QUOTE>
veery?
</QUOTE>
No, <i>veeeery</i>. It's like veery, only more so. ;-)
#17 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-08-07 05:09:16
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com/
AH GOD.

THE NERFING TOTALLY FUCKING SUCKS.

None of the classes were overbalanced. The Amazon and the Sorcerer were UNDERBALANCED.  So they take away the ONLY FUCKING THING that makes Necromancers viable in Hell.

This doesn't fucking balance the game, it makes the Necromancer class useless.

I hear that Barbs also got fucked because of the wimping of Whirlwind.

Don't you think characters should be somewhat powerful after level 30 or so?  But they just take it all away and still the amazon sucks ass because all of her skills are useless.  Except jab, which is pretty limited.
#18 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-08-07 05:10:36
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com/
Unless there is a serious problem, you just don't fucking touch game balance ex post facto.

I never saw a serious problem with corpse explosion, but now its useless.  I know people with 20 points in that skill and they can't kill shit with it.
#19 by "FerrettKing"
2000-08-07 05:11:02
ebauman@tampabay.rr.com
I have question for some of the professionals out there.  (Or anyone with enough experience in the business to know what I'm asking).  How do you really feel about some of the incessant bitching that you get on these message boards?  I would imagine it would get incredibly tiresome and make you just want to lock yourself in a closet with a bottle or two of whiskey for the weekend.  There's never a way to satisfy all the whiners.  At what point does the bitching rise to the level that issues need to be addressed?  I have seen this phenomenon in my following of the EQ boards.  The pattern seems to be to deny a problem exists until the volume of complaining reaches an intolerable level, and then address it.  (I hesitate to say 'fix' it, because it seems often nothing was 'broken' rather the issue was merely a gameplay decision.)  

On the other hand, the passion emanating from the whiners must show some level of devotion to the game, right?  Could the level of bitching about an Everquest or a Diablo II be worn as a badge of honor maybe?

Just curious.
#20 by "Andy"
2000-08-07 05:16:33
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#17</b>, Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart:

Calm down dude. ;-)

I could almost feel your fists coming through the monitor...

--

There's not much I can say on this subject myself because I don't play Diablo II and don't really understand what the issue is here. (I realise that there <i>is</i> an issue, I just can't appreciate it the way I would if I played the game.)

What I will say, though, is that Red Alert was quite seriously unbalanced, and I LOVED THAT. When I was on the more powerful side, it was a nice feeling of superiority. When I was on the weaker side, it was a lot of fun being the underdog, getting smashed to oblivion and then (sometimes) coming back to win.

That's just my own weird preference, though. I accept that most players don't like it that way, and understandably so.
#21 by "Ouroboros"
2000-08-07 05:20:35
ouroboros@volitionwatch.com
Humph. I play a Paladin mainly - no problems there. However, my Necro just got ROYALLY screwed. The Necro's system was, simply, "kill with golems/revived/skels, then Corpse-detonate". Granted, it's a very low-level Necro, but I was having a blast. The Amazon and Sorceress still suck ass - Ever tried fighting Duriel as an Amazon? I did it with my Paladin, first try, no deaths, no real problem. A friend of mine with a Bowazon just got nuked. The sorceress simply isn't an option; she never has enough mana to really use the spells, which of course get more expensive as they're "upgraded"...
Blizzard produced a game that hsa always been one patch away from greatness. Simply restoring Whirlwind and Corpse Explosion (two extremely vital skills to a lot of players), and upgrading the Sorc and 'zon, and it's all good. This is *not* yet another issue where nobody cares except a pack of nasty, vocal message-board posters. This *is* a major problem, especially for Necromancers.
#22 by "None-1a"
2000-08-07 05:34:04
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
Desided to god cheack out the changes made to the thing, here's the relavent list.

<i>Corpse Explosion (Necromancer) Reduced the extra radius gained per level of the skill from 1 to 1/2. Reduced the explosion damage so that it is not scaled up for each additional player in the game

Revive (Necromancer) Removed the hit point boost for extra levels gained in this skill

Conversion (Paladin) Lowered the formula calculating the chance to convert for extra levels gained in this skill

Whirlwind (Barbarian) Decreased the number of attack attempts made when using this skill

Pierce (Amazon) Magical arrow effects such as Immolation will apply to every target hit</i>

Corpse explosion is not half of what ever it was before, just get closer (or gain more points for it), Whirlwind number of attack attempts goes down, follow it up with something else or attack again with it.

Play for a few days and get back to me please I'd like to know if they are still a problem after you've goten used to the new setup.

--
None-1a, Any one bitching about spelling just can't argue with what I said.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "Geoffrois"
2000-08-07 06:11:28
I don't understand why a necro with 20 points into CE would now feel "useless". The radius of CE at that level is still filling all the screen which makes it powerful anyway.

Sorry about the technicalities (for those of you who don't play DII) but I feel like there is lots of exageration in the air. I used Corpse Explosion this morning and it worked just fine, you just have to get your target closer than before.
#24 by "Saber"
2000-08-07 06:13:31
saber@unreality.org http://www.unreality.org/uweb
Brandon go back to DNF, I want to play the damn thing already :)

Btw, I agree with him that you seriously should not change the values on certain skills after a game ships. I read somewhere that people were planning their character months before the game by reading on what things do. I feel sorry for that level 70 + Necromancer guy, his 24 hour days on D2 are worth nothing now. But I think he sold it on ebay anyway, good for him :)

Sucks to be you, you being the guy who bought it :)
#25 by "Dethstryk"
2000-08-07 06:28:02
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Saber wrote in post #24:</b>
<quote>Sucks to be you, you being the guy who bought it :)</quote>
Bah.. people who sell game items on eBay just have *way* too much time on their hands if you ask me. That guy who sold the Necromancer contacted me a while back, had a pompous attitude, so you know I sure as hell didn't want to meet his request he made.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#26 by "Seth"
2000-08-07 06:58:27
Brandon: Clvl 38 (36 at time of patch) Barbarian totally useless now.
Every point invested in Whirlwind (past level 30, so about 7 skill points) all gone to waste.

Andy: Let me explain why it sucks. on the higher dificulty levels - without specialization you are totally screwed. You can't be a "jack of all trades" in the game, you basically have to choose 3-6 skills and dump skill points into those. You only get one skill point per level to spend, once spent it's permanent. Whirlwind *is* the only skill that gives you any kind of hope on the harder dificulty levels, as it basically cuts a swath through enemies if you're surrounded - (which is all the time) the cost of the skill is high (level 1 being 25 mana points, probably about half of what a level 30 [the point where it becomes available] Barbarian might have, and it actually increases in mana cost the more points you put into it) and the only way to use it effectively was with mana stealing items (effectively getting back what you spent as long as you hit a lot of enemies). What Blizzard did was reduce the number of possible hits per enemy from 4 to whatever it is now, drastically reducing the Whirlwind/mana steal combo.

All that time, wasted. For thousands, and thousands of players.

Thanks Blizzard!
#27 by "Andy"
2000-08-07 07:06:07
andy@planetcrap.com
Thanks Seth, that makes things a lot clearer for me.

And welcome back. I hope you'll ignore the inevitable flames and stick around.

To misquote Wayne's World, <i>if you ignore them, they will go away...</i>

(Sheesh, first I start using smileys all the time, and now I'm saying 'flames'... oh dear God, I'm turning into one of those Net folk I was warned about...)
#28 by "Seth"
2000-08-07 07:13:32
Andy: Heh, thanks. I've come to terms with what happened, if people who weren't even involved haven't...

heh.

Anyway, the same thing basically is true for the Necro class (The Corpse Explosion skill being nerfed, reducing radius of damage by about half, kind of like going from a Rocket Launcher in Quake to the Eightball gun from the original Unreal).
#29 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-08-07 07:20:19
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com/
<QUOTE>
Corpse explosion is not half of what ever it was before, just get closer (or gain more points for it), Whirlwind number of attack attempts goes down, follow it up with something else or attack again with it.
</QUOTE>

You don't know what your talking about dude.  The problem is for people with really high CE that can't increase it more...you NEED it to survive Nightmare/Hell as a Necromancer and characters that focused on it as their primary are fucked.  They simply can't play the game.
#30 by "Valeyard"
2000-08-07 07:20:50
valeyard@ck3.net http://www.ck3.net
Having only played as an amazon and a sorceress I'm baffled by some of the comments. :)

First of all, I don't know anyone who likes to play a multiplayer game with a necro in the party...even other necros. (Unless you're just there to suck up free experience).  Their minions are constantly in the way and it just sucks away the fun.  Take your non-necro into a four player game with 2 or 3 necros and tell me you have ANY fun...I won't believe it.

Corpse explosion and whirlwind needed to be toned down...but not this much, and CERTAINLY not this late into the game.  That's what beta and stress tests are for.

As for Amazons and Sorceresses being usless?  I haven't had any problems.  It just depends on how you play them.  I've got a closed Sorc. that's 27th level and an open Amazon that's 37th level.

My Amazon has almost NO bow skills, every point has been dumped into her passive and spear/javelin skills.  Jab rocks, the lightening attack is great, but I wish impale was slightly better.  Dumping points into jab and critical strike is crucial.  Having a Valkyrie is a GODSEND on nightmare...she won't kill much and she'll die easily, but she's a great damage magnet.  Kill off the fodder and every boss is a cake walk - summon a Valkyrie, let her start fighting the boss, stand behind her and attack.  It's like having a free, 450 point shield.  Almost no damage, and the creature's health just disappears.  For really cowded areas, you can also dump out a decoy...really spreads the damage around.

My Sorceress was fortunate enough to find the Iron Jang Bong war staff fairly early on.  Any item that's +1/+2 to skills is good.  She's got level 1 in about half of the fire skills, 5 in warmth and ALL of the cold and lighting skills available.  Glacial spike and Nova (along with some magic armor) just destroy everything after you pump a few points into them.  She doesn't take much damage, because most enemies are frozen from the time they appear until they die.

She can't wade through enemies the way the Barbarian can (or could), but I pity the player who goes hostile against her with a low cold or lightning resistance.

Anyway, the point is:  Yes, it was a mistake to change things SO drastically after so much time.  I also disagree about the "usefulness" of the female characters.  With the exception of "leech" players who have Hell class items they don't deserve, I'd pit them up against any other class if the levels are roughly the same.  Maybe. :)

On the other hand, I may be a little too used to constantly getting screwed by changes in a game.  Every release of counter-strike has required players to relearn almost every weapon...some of the "tweaks" they've made, especially in the latest versions, are just silly.

-Valeyard<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "Geoffrois"
2000-08-07 07:21:50
<Quote>Brandon: Clvl 38 (36 at time of patch) Barbarian totally useless now. </quote>

So useless that you were able to level him 2 levels in 2 days... ya right he is USELESS!
#32 by "Warmonger [AI]"
2000-08-07 07:28:28
warmonger87@hotmail.com
Am I the *only* person who hasn't played Diablo 2 yet? <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Valeyard"
2000-08-07 07:29:07
valeyard@ck3.net http://www.ck3.net
Oh, and for the record, that wasn't an open challenge to everyone.  I hold no illusions about who would win a duel in most cases (though I have won the only duel I fought).

After talking to some high-level necro and barbs that I know, it seems things are EXTREMELY nasty when playing on late Nightmare and hell.  With all of the changes to the netcode (which HAS provided me with an EXCEPTIONALLY smooth game...a HUGE improvement), the life orbs, and some of the skills, the higher level necros and barbs are dying quite often.  Losing experience each time.

Sounds like 1.04 needs to tweak those changes again...to find a happy medium.

The thing I'm MOST curious about:

Did these changes occur because it was too easy for Barbs to kill monsters, or because it was too easy to kill PLAYERS?  Since the necro is moderately week against players, I doubt that had much bearing on CE.

-Valeyard<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#34 by "Valeyard"
2000-08-07 07:29:41
valeyard@ck3.net http://www.ck3.net
<b>#32</b> "Warmonger [AI]" wrote...
<QUOTE>Am I the *only* person who hasn't played Diablo 2 yet? </QUOTE>

You and my brother...but he's buying it tomorrow. :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#35 by "Seth"
2000-08-07 07:30:47
In Hell, yes it is. I've been stuck in Act II (killing Duriel is out of the question, barely been able to retrieve my stuff from his spot the two times I've been down there) in Hell and going back to Act IV in normal, with constant playing over a weekend, two levels is miniscule.
#36 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-08-07 07:36:05
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com/
Battle.net is a complete pain in the ass. You can play for about 15 minutes before the server crashes and you lose all the exp you gained because the save update didn't go up in time.

I'm currently trying to kill Duriel and its a pain in the ASS because the server crashes and I have to clear the damn Tomb of Tal Rasha over and over and over.
#37 by "CronoShift"
2000-08-07 07:36:35
cronoshift@livefire.net http://www.livefire.net
I beleave it was good for Blizzard to weaken the Barb, and necro.  If you looked at the ladder(uswest) 98% of the people on it where of the 2 classes. That to me says unbalanced. I do not think Blizzard could have strenghend the sorc. and amazon classes, because one of the whole points to the game was that it was supposed to be near impossible to solo on act 4. That is what the necro and barb. classes where doing. The game was to easy for those classes. I think the whinning is way over hyped. Those charicters that are lvl 80 are not worthless. They just need some new stratiges. If your whole charicter revolves around one skill, there is a problem. Why do you need super skills like Whirrel wind? none of the high lvl barbarians go hand to hand anymore, because that is the only skill they used. That is abusing the ability.

As for the Necro, CE is only a clvl 6 spell. it should not really be that great. The necro was designed to raise golems and the dead, not just wait for one guy to fall on the floor dead to kill the rest.

Blizzard should have warned people right when they knew they were going to weaken though abilities, so future points where not spent there. If someone responds well, "blizz did not know," I think that is BS. I knew once i saw the first lvl 30 barb, and when I played the necro, because I was lvling up alot faster the the person I played though the whole game with.

Overall, the problem are people are just to whinney and do not want to accept that their charicter is not quite as strong as it used to be. Overall, I think it made the game more fun.

Sorry about all the typos and miss spelled words. I just reformated, and have not installed word to fix them yet.

-CronoShift
#38 by "Mark Asher"
2000-08-07 07:36:49
marka@cdmnet.com
Blizzard had three choices.

1. Do nothing.

Result: Everyone eventually plays a necro and barb and the game suffers as a result. Already the ladders are dominated by necros and barbs.

2. Make the paladin, sorceress, and amazon more powerful to level the playing field, and then make the monsters more powerful to put the game back to where it's supposed to be.

Result: Barbs and necros have a tougher time because they haven't been changed but the monsters are tougher.

3. Nerf the barb and necro skills so they are not overpowered to rebalance the game.

Result: Incessant whining from necros and barbs.

Number 3 is the easiest to do. The only hard part is listening to the bitching.
#39 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-08-07 07:41:25
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com/
<QUOTE>
2. Make the paladin, sorceress, and amazon more powerful to level the playing field, and then make the monsters more powerful to put the game back to where it's supposed to be.
</qUOTE>

That's not true. They could have made the Sorceress and Amazon more powerful and not touched the monsters.  The Paladin is fine.  People like to play him and he's got good skills.

The Sorceress is just plain weak.  She can't use any decent equipment and her powers are really crappy in Nightmare and Hell.
#40 by "BarneyQue"
2000-08-07 07:53:43
barneyque@hotmail.com
<b>#32</b> "Warmonger [AI]" wrote...
<QUOTE>

Am I the *only* person who hasn't played Diablo 2 yet? </QUOTE>

Nope.  I just recently (like a few months ago) bought Diablo 1, and I was not terribly impressed with the gameplay.  I asked around here about the gameplay in new one, and I hear it's more of the same. So I'm passing on it. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#41 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-08-07 07:54:21
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com/
Check this out. I kill Duriel. He dies. He drops unique gauntlets. "CONNECTION INTERRUPTED"

Fuck that. This is so gay.
#42 by "Warmonger [AI]"
2000-08-07 07:54:46
warmonger87@hotmail.com
So, since I don't have it, and I'm saving up for Sanity (which probably won't be out until October), should I go and pick it up? <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#43 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-08-07 08:00:24
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com/
The US East server has over 30,000 people on it. You have to wait in a line of over 1000 people just to start a server.  It actually tells you your like 1138th place in line!  Suck!

Remember when UO started? Origin was FAST to get a TON of extra servers set up.  Why can't Blizzard just SPEND THE CASH and set up a US Midwest and US South server?
#44 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-08-07 08:05:09
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com/
UGH! It gets worse.  I log back in and it gives me quest credit for having killed Duriel. So now I have quest credit for it but non of the loot.  I'm about 10 seconds away from breaking my keyboard.  I'm really really pissed off.

I haven't been this pissed off since I lost 750,000 gold in Ultima Online.
#45 by "Andy"
2000-08-07 08:06:22
andy@planetcrap.com
Does anyone know what level of server support there is for Diablo II in the UK? Is there any point getting it in this country?


--

The one-off haiku signature...

<i>Here is the whole trick.
Can you count to five and sev...
Oops, not so easy.</i>
#46 by "Brandon 'GreenMarine' Reinhart"
2000-08-07 08:29:33
brandonr@3drealms.com http://www.3drealms.com/
They have a Europe server.  I don't know how over loaded it is, but its most likely at capacity.
#47 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-08-07 09:24:27
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
Post <b>#3</b> by G-Man:
<QUOTE><i>
Useless? Start over entirely? Hrm.
</quote>

<quote>For the record I haven't played very much Diablo II, so I could very well be wrong.</i></QUOTE>

By the way, it was me you were quoting. Anyway, your post says it all.

And yes, barbarian and necromancer with 20 points in whirlwind and corpse explosion/revive became pretty much useless chars. I'd go golem way now with necromancer and would think about other skills with barb. Which is probably a good thing, if it was done *before* the game came out.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "Daren walz"
2000-08-07 09:30:42
walzx002@maroon.tc.umn.edu
Ok people, what we have here is a failure to calm down.

Those of you upset have a right to be so, but please, mindless ranting rarely gets anyone anywhere.

It is my opinion that blizzard will act to correct the problems with the servers but they will do in a slow rollout implimentation that could take a few months. You have to give them time to get it together. It takes both massive amounts of time, bandwidth, and computing power to get a single realm server up, and if one server (or more likely some sort of server cluster)  is handling 30,000 requests for data all at the same time you are talking about some seriously cash intensive hardware (something along SPAC or Alpha, but if they are running a cluster it could be nearly any damn thing)

they don't want to fuck up what <b>is</b> working now. You can bet if they do anything they will do so when they feel the time is best.

Now I own D2 but I don't have a B.net account. That being said puts in somewhat of a perspective my slant on this story.

I will say when I heard the plans for the B.net servers I knew I wouldn't be playing there for at least 6 months or more. Why? Because systems like this are famous for fucking up the work of the players when they are still new.

I'm not calling names and I'm not trying to imply anything other then please those of you that are truely upset, just calm down and give them time. This game is their baby, they <b>WILL</b> fix it

and I apologise if my statements upset anyone that is not my intent.


-Daren

*flush*<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#49 by "PiRaMidA"
2000-08-07 09:52:56
piramida@agsm.net http://www.agsm.net
Post <b>#38</b> by Mark Asher:
<QUOTE><i>
Blizzard had three choices.
</i></QUOTE>

They had forth choice, fix the game before it shipped. Ok, so they screwed up. They should fix their mistake. There are many better ways to do that. For example, change the skill balance but leave established characters with their skills. It would require duplicate logic for two character classes but it certainly would reduce the number of deleted chars. It would be unfair to new users but at least they would know what they'd be getting. Upgrading sorceress so that her spells would do at least twice the damage at higher Slvls would be a wise thing to do as well. Amazons could benefit from a few added high level skills.

I understand that they try to make reaching Clvl 99 as hard of a task as possible, but what if with the current balance they would decide, few months later, that paladins are dominating ladders, and weaken their primary skills? Make zeal miss half of the time and vengeance do one third of the damage? You can't be sure now.

Btw, if you ask me their other changes are dramatic as well. Basically, you now get only 1/5 of expirience after Clvl 90, which means you'd be spending a month to get to Clvl 91. And with the current skill changes, probably forever as hell/hell solo runs became almost impossible in multiplayer. It appears much more correct to just move upper Clvl cap a tad higher, to something like 150, and raise monster's Mlvl in hell/hell to 100+.

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#50 by "Napoleon"
2000-08-07 10:11:49
nap@softhome.net
Hmm.
From my point of view, the Necro was way over-powered. I played one up till clvl 27, while playing with my buddy who was a paladin, and he only got to clvl 24 in the same time...all because I would blow up every single enemy on screen with my CE.

I loaded up my necro today, and used ce...yup the range is a lot lower, but it's still an insanely useful spell, IMHO. So, the necro people should just stop bitching.

Now, for the Barb, I only played him till lvl 18, so I don't know about Whirlwind, but I could imagine ppl being pissed about that. Blizzard fixed whirlwind a bit too much, which is not a good thing. Boo to them :)

Greenmarine: Yikes man, take a valium :)
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