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Hybrid of Hope?
July 23rd 2005, 04:35 CEST by Mank

Could there be a true hybrid lurking in the near future?


Planetside uses the PvP FPS model, but instead of becoming better with level, players become better with practice. The main thing -level- does, is allow you to switch between more item sets. A player coming out of the tutorial has enough battle rank to kick the crap out of a higher level player who might not have spent the time to practice with those higher level items. Planetsides system seems to be the best step forward in the future of any new MMOFPS.

There are a few problems that exist with making a persistant MMOFPS where level and skill might replace the 'twitch' aspect of FPS games as they now exist. The biggest hurdle would be the implementation of a system that didnt rely on the mouselook/aiming input system. Popular opinion seems to be that any FPS has to use the conventional mouselook/aiming mechanic to be a true FPS.

I think it's entirely possible that a MMOFPS could maintain the first person perspective in combat, but I'm not sure if there is a solution to the server resolution(client data) issues(of a massively multiplayer FPS). Another issue would be the type(s) of RPG elements used, and the overall effect on the players willingness to remain persistant in the game world. IMHO, any form of level treadmills or skill trees would not be very popular as the means of maintaining persistance in the game world. Replacing the 'twitch' factor that FPS players thrive on, with a mechanism that rewards over time, is definately the hard part. On the other side of that coin are the elements needed to draw the RPG players to a FPS perspective game, and keep them.

FPS's are PvP by proxy of the deathmatch elements contained in each and, the playing field has to be the same for everyone without exception. The introduction of RPG elements would have to be implemeted in a way where the player is rewarded for their persistance, while at the same time maintaining positive control of the power differential in the core gameplay.

There are a few games in the works that look very promising:

Twilight War
 
Tabula Rosa

If you read the FAQ's for these games, it becomes apparent that these companies are thinking outside the mold when it comes to some of the features that are listed for these games. Definately interesting....if, and when, they ever come out..=)


A couple of questions:

Would a PvE combat system be preferable over a PvP system, or a mixture of both?

What types of RPG elements would you desire in such a game?

Discuss! =)
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Home » Topic: Hybrid of Hope?

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#1 by Grue
2005-07-23 04:35:47
Muhahahahaha.
#2 by Matt Perkins
2005-07-23 04:58:41
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Doesn't Planetside exist?

"Of course, libertarians are a special breed because they can't explain their beliefs to anyone, even each other, without sounding like batshit crazy lunatics." - Shadarr
#3 by G-Man
2005-07-23 05:04:16
Go home Mank.
#4 by Shadarr
2005-07-23 05:19:36
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
MMOGs have two major flaws, the M and the other M.

You need to work on your micro before you play a Korean.
#5 by Hugin
2005-07-23 06:05:47
lmccain@nber.org
We could be tallking about ice cream and naked people right now, but noooo.
#6 by Funkdrunk
2005-07-23 06:14:15
jflavius@bellatlantic.net
Hugin
We could be tallking about ice cream and naked people right now, but noooo.


As someone who is lactose intolerant, the combination of a stiff penis and a violent case of the runs is totally unappealing to me.

Funk.

I lie awake
I’ve gone to ground
I’m watching porn
In my hotel dressing gown
#7 by Sgt Hulka
2005-07-23 06:33:47
Add a monkey to the mix Funk and we're talkin party!  Naked milk drinking monkey with a chubby party that is!

#8 by Hugin
2005-07-23 06:53:27
lmccain@nber.org
Nakedness is possible without penises.  And we can hook you up with lactose-free ice cream!
#9 by gaggle
2005-07-23 10:05:43
I really wanted to post something ontopic, but, alas, sadly it remains rather unparseable. Is the twitch-factor in Planetside a bad thing? Are we to suggest replacements for that system?


Also I didn't vote for this topic. I blame the corrupt management.

"Roses are red, violets are blue. In Soviet Russia, poems write you" - bash.org
#10 by gaggle
2005-07-23 11:05:45
Tabula Rosa looks like WoW with lasers to me, judging from the gameplay movies. WoooooW Iiiiiiiin Spaaaaaaaaace.

"Roses are red, violets are blue. In Soviet Russia, poems write you" - bash.org
#11 by LPMiller
2005-07-23 14:22:46
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Doesn't Planetside exist?


He didn't say it didn't, dumbass hippie.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
#12 by Hugin
2005-07-23 15:13:23
lmccain@nber.org
Can anyone get the Tabula Rasa videos to download?  Does it feel as if the game is very dumbed down compared to the way it was being described earlier?
#13 by Matt Perkins
2005-07-23 15:17:16
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
He didn't say it didn't, dumbass hippie.

Thank you for your insightful and incredibly helpful comments.

"Of course, libertarians are a special breed because they can't explain their beliefs to anyone, even each other, without sounding like batshit crazy lunatics." - Shadarr
#14 by Hugin
2005-07-23 15:20:50
lmccain@nber.org
I got the videos to play finally.  And they're terrible.  My interest in the game has dropped to about zero.
#15 by Matt Perkins
2005-07-23 15:22:10
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
I got the videos to play finally.  And they're terrible.  My interest in the game has dropped to about zero.

I haven't seen them, but ever since they "changed their creative direction" I have had little to no hope.

"Of course, libertarians are a special breed because they can't explain their beliefs to anyone, even each other, without sounding like batshit crazy lunatics." - Shadarr
#16 by m0nty
2005-07-23 15:36:24
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Matt Perkins (#13):
He didn't say it didn't, dumbass hippie.

Thank you for your insightful and incredibly helpful comments.

I found it helpful to be reminded about you being a dumbass hippie.
#17 by gaggle
2005-07-23 15:52:42
How was it described earlier Hugin Perkins? I've never heard of this game before.


The lack of strafing and stuff made it look pretty standard RPGish to me, I certainly failed to notice stuff like strafing, seeking cover, etc.




Oh and I thought the movie Sahara was pretty fun. Sortakinda like National Treasure, only far prettier, and with more enjoyable characters, humor and plotline.

"Roses are red, violets are blue. In Soviet Russia, poems write you" - bash.org
#18 by jjohnsen
2005-07-23 16:00:38
http://www.johnsenclan.com
We saw Wedding Crashers last night.  Funny in a Old School way, but a little long, and it got soft at the end.

Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore.  -LP
#19 by Hugin
2005-07-23 16:01:47
lmccain@nber.org
I don't know.  I guess when I was first reading about the game it felt like they were trying to work up an interesting combat system, an interesting world.  This just looked like Phantasy Star Online meets Anarchy Online.  It didn't help that of the six clips, one was a cheesy cutscene and the other five were basically re-edits of the same footage over bad heavy metal.
#20 by Sgt Hulka
2005-07-23 17:00:18
Funny in a Old School way, but a little long, and it got soft at the end.


God I hate that.  The last thing I want in my crude comedy is a lesson and/or moral at the end. I haven't seen the film, it looked pretty dumb to me.  I think Waiting looks like it has a lot of potential for laughs.

#21 by mgns
2005-07-23 17:12:38
In other news, attorney willing to say whatever it takes...

Just those three words, said and meant. I love you. They were quite hopeless. He said it as he might have said, I have cancer.
#22 by LPMiller
2005-07-23 17:43:09
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Dude, do you need a towel or something? Cause you just Eric'd all over the place.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
#23 by Foodbunny
2005-07-23 18:23:19
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
Tabula Rasa was originaly going to be a sci-fi fantasy game with techno-bards and fairy unicorns.  As bad as that was, still more charming than their current concept.
#24 by Marsh Davies
2005-07-23 18:53:45
www.verbalchilli.com
It looks like the man that got shot through head five times by plain clothes police was not connected to bombings after all. Woops.

#25 by Your Friend
2005-07-23 19:02:52
I thought Wedding Crashers was a lot funnier than Old School.  Worth seeing.

Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection,
The lovers, the dreamers, and me.
#26 by Neale
2005-07-23 19:32:46
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
Marsh: you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs...

If armed police are telling you repeatedly to stop or they'll shoot, and you continue to ignore them, you're going to get a lead enema. Darwinism in action.

I have a hard time accepting that anyone could achieve this miraculously high level of stupidity. - Caryn
#27 by Dumdeedum
2005-07-23 20:21:56
http://www.dumdeedum.com
I'm not sure I want their omelette, it's got blood in it and it tastes nasty.

#28 by Foodbunny
2005-07-23 20:26:10
foodbunny@attbi.com http://www.foodbunny.com
If armed police are telling you repeatedly to stop or they'll shoot, and you continue to ignore them, you're going to get a lead enema.


Shame about them being plain clothes officers.  If 5 dudes with guns started chasing me I might not be inclined to stop and ask to see their badges either.
#29 by Hugin
2005-07-23 20:31:52
lmccain@nber.org
#26 by Neale

If armed police are telling you repeatedly to stop or they'll shoot, and you continue to ignore them, you're going to get a lead enema. Darwinism in action.


Before the shooting occurred, did the authorities inform the populace that the police patrolling the tube now had a shoot on sight policy?  I don't want a guy with a bomb to get away or succeed in blowing himself and a bunch of people up.  on the other hand, I want to see the rules of engagement guidelines that include shooting a guy to death who's already down and under a five cop dogpile.  The phrase "He was coming right at me!" comes to mind.
#30 by Marsh Davies
2005-07-23 21:18:31
www.verbalchilli.com
As I said in irc: the police felt they had reason enough to follow him. It's impossible to say until more evidence comes to light, but not being connected to the bombing doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't a radical muslim who might have plausibly committed a similar act.

Still, I agree with Hugin on a need for some greater degree of transparency in policing.

#31 by Marsh Davies
2005-07-23 21:23:49
www.verbalchilli.com
on the other hand, I want to see the rules of engagement guidelines that include shooting a guy to death who's already down and under a five cop dogpile.

I can imagine circumstances where this might be a reasonable decision: if he wasn't entirely restrained and the police felt that unless he was immediately killed he might still be able to detonate explosives. However, you'd think that this dangerous ambiguity might be cleared up with the first bullet or two, let alone the third, fourth or fifth.

#32 by G-Man
2005-07-23 22:05:20
None of you have ever fired in a gun in that situation - and neither have I. But I have participated in NYPD training simulations and I can tell you that it becomes very hard to keep track of how many bullets you are firing very quickly. Also, when your partner makes the decision to fire it becomes very hard to not start firing as well.
#33 by Hugin
2005-07-23 23:55:59
lmccain@nber.org
The number of bullets doesn't bug me so much as the decision to shoot in the first place.  I'd just like to hear more about what the cops thought they saw or what they thought they were doing or preventing.  Shooting a gun out in the field, even pulling a gun, is a big deal for a cop.  You shoot someone, there's a lot of paperwork and reviews.  I wonder if there'll a publically released report on it.

GMan, everyone knows its tough to be a cop.  I'm probably more aware of that than the average bear.  I just want to know what went down, and what the standing engagement rules are right now.
#34 by Marsh Davies
2005-07-24 00:23:10
www.verbalchilli.com
G-Man
None of you have ever fired in a gun in that situation - and neither have I. But I have participated in NYPD training simulations and I can tell you that it becomes very hard to keep track of how many bullets you are firing very quickly. Also, when your partner makes the decision to fire it becomes very hard to not start firing as well.

I was just being glib. Five does seem excessive at such close range, to the back of the head, but I don't really see any reason to second guess the actions of the police until there is more information. And, yeah, they were making a very important decision in a very small amount of time - criticising the propriety of the number of bullets used is largely just asinine hindsight given that one bullet or five, he's still dead.

#35 by Eric T. Cheng
2005-07-24 00:25:25
erictcheng@hotmail.com
Shooting a gun out in the field, even pulling a gun, is a big deal for a cop.  You shoot someone, there's a lot of paperwork and reviews.  I wonder if there'll a publically released report on it.


This is even more so for British cops as the majority of them don't carry guns, or at best carry shotguns/rifles in the trunk/boot of their patrol car.

When I read about the incident the first thing I thought was that they shot the wrong man. Five white plainsclothes cops telling a man of East Indian decent to stop in the Tube two weeks after the first bombings?

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
DVD Collection
GameGossip.com
#36 by Ergo
2005-07-24 00:54:21
My dad (a cop) once told me that you're trained to keep shooting until the other guy is down and not moving.

"Every sect as far as reason will help them, gladly use it; when it fails them, they cry out it is a matter of faith, and beyond reason." --John Locke
DVDs
#37 by Eric T. Cheng
2005-07-24 01:06:16
erictcheng@hotmail.com
He must have been really squirming under those five cops...

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
DVD Collection
GameGossip.com
#38 by LPMiller
2005-07-24 01:12:12
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Happens. Sucks, but happens.

Other response:

What? You mean Americans aren't the only people that can overreact?

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
#39 by Hugin
2005-07-24 01:15:07
lmccain@nber.org
#36 by Ergo

My dad (a cop) once told me that you're trained to keep shooting until the other guy is down and not moving.


Sure.  Once you've made the decision to shoot, you really need to go ahead and kill the person.  But in this case it could be argued the guy started "down" before the shooting started.
#40 by Hugin
2005-07-24 01:16:34
lmccain@nber.org
#38 by LPMiller

What? You mean Americans aren't the only people that can overreact?


It would have never happened in Canada!
#41 by Eric T. Cheng
2005-07-24 01:18:16
erictcheng@hotmail.com
It would have never happened in Canada!


Of course it does. But only when they're pepper spraying protesting anti-globalization hippies. That's about twice a week.

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
DVD Collection
GameGossip.com
#42 by Shadarr
2005-07-24 01:52:11
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the reports we've heard so far are wildly inaccurate.  That's why they have reviews and inquiries.

You need to work on your micro before you play a Korean.
#43 by m0nty
2005-07-24 04:21:11
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
The Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, said: "The police acted to do what they believed necessary to protect the lives of the public.

"This tragedy has added another victim to the toll of deaths for which the terrorists bear responsibility."

Er, no Ken, the police are responsible.
#44 by LPMiller
2005-07-24 05:23:07
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
So, I saw Fantastic Four - eh, Thing and Human Torch worked, Reed didn't, though I dunno that anyone could make him work, and Alba just can't act. And doom sucked. You can't have a good superhero movie with a sucky villian. But, it was still ok. Just seemed to sorta end, though.

Then I saw Must Love Dogs at a sneak preview. Pleasent film that fits right in with the other John Cussack chick flicks. I liked it, fit the genre.  Good date film.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
#45 by jjohnsen
2005-07-24 07:00:21
http://www.johnsenclan.com
I thought Wedding Crashers was a lot funnier than Old School.  Worth seeing.

Yikes, really?  Old School is one of my favorite comedies of the past 5 years or so, this one didn't compare.   Is this where I insult you and tell you your opinion is worthless?

Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore.  -LP
#46 by Sgt Hulka
2005-07-24 07:20:10
I thought Back to School was funnier than Old School and The Wedding Singer is funnier than Wedding Crashers, but not as heart touching as The Wedding Planner.  I'm gonna have to go watch Plan 9 from Outer Space to clear my mind.  

P.S. Faith Hill is a doll and can sing like a bird.

#47 by gaggle
2005-07-24 10:32:34
F4 seemed pretty good to me. I liked Alba, acting and everything, and didn't have any specific issues with Doom or otherwise. Not that I was, like, thoroughly entertained, it was just happy action and stuff, but what was there worked for me about as well as any sappy superhero action movies can be expected to work. It was a damn sight better than Hulk, at least.


Also, I couldn't force my way through Old School. Stopped a little ways in, my toes were curling so much as to almost snap themselves clean off.

"Roses are red, violets are blue. In Soviet Russia, poems write you" - bash.org
#48 by lwf
2005-07-24 10:57:59
What the hell are they doing to their children in your country?

"Then I see his eyes glaze over and I can see it going through his mind: 'Oh my God, I'm going to fuck Marilyn Monroe,' and he can't get it up."
#49 by E-ph0nk
2005-07-24 14:58:19
http://www.electrophonk.be
From what I read in the newspaper, the man (of brazil origin) came out of a house that was under police surveillance - he got followed and when he came to the metro they thought he was acting weird so they wanted to question him - he run away and the rest is about the same as what i've read here.
They shot him in the head because they were ordered to: shooting at other bodyparts might trigger a bomb or explosives if he would indeed carry them.

#50 by Hugin
2005-07-24 15:53:12
lmccain@nber.org
Ah, now that's an interesting tidbit.
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