PlanetCrap 6.0!
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
T O P I C
Ritual FAKKs off?
July 30th 2000, 19:35 CEST by andy

In an interview on Vgames, Ritual level designer Richard Gray comments on the company's possible move to console development...



Considering G.O.D. is preparing games lately for the console field, and the recent porting of the Q3A engine to the DreamCast, do you have any plans of porting FAKK2 to consoles in the future?

Yes, indeed! FAKK2 will be going to the DreamCast and we are making plans ourselves to head in the strictly-console direction with future titles.

He doesn't make any direct reference to which consoles Ritual intends to work with in future. However, he does say: "We have a close and long-standing relationship with id. We have done, and will do, products with them for a long while." This would suggest that Xbox and Dreamcast are the best bets.

So, is this a one-off FPS developer jumping the PC ship, or will Ritual be the first of many?

And which of the companies developing PC engines will go on to dominate the console market?

Update:

We've since heard from Richard, by way of a forwarded e-mail, that Ritual will continue to make PC games as well as console-only titles. His comments in the Vgames interview did not mean that Ritual will be a "strictly-console" company.

C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Ritual FAKKs off?

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
#1 by "Andy"
2000-07-30 19:36:06
andy@planetcrap.com
And yes, I know that FAKK2 isn't an FPS, but Ritual is traditionally part of the FPS community.
#2 by "alien8"
2000-07-30 19:41:47
alien@planetunreal.com http://www.planetunreal.com
First useless post!

-alien8<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#3 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-30 19:42:54
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Andy wrote in post #1:</b>
<quote>And yes, I know that FAKK2 isn't an FPS, but Ritual is traditionally part of the FPS community. </quote>
Hell, it might as well be an FPS, since the things evolved from people doing chasecams in Quake anyway.

As for all of this, it's kind of suprising. I'll miss the little buggers, but maybe Levelord didn't mean they were going to do only console titles from now on?

I think it's possible he meant they will do some console titles only, but not all of their games like that.

Did you contact him? He's pretty quick to respond, plus he's a nice guy. :)


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#4 by "None-1a"
2000-07-30 19:48:09
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a
<b>#Main Post</b> "andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>So, is this a one-off FPS developer jumping the PC ship, or will Ritual be the
first of many?</QUOTE>

Yes, well maybe not totaly jumping ship more like laying a boarding plank across and continualy walking back and forth for a while.

<b>#Main Post</b> "andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>
And which of the companies developing PC engines will go on to dominate the
console market?</QUOTE>

Mostly the same ones (id and epic), although lith would dominate on the x-box.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#5 by "Mat Bettinson"
2000-07-30 19:52:33
mat@mats.net
A cynic might say that they'd be able to sell crap FPS games on consoles, unlike the PC. You'd have to be very cynical of course :)
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#6 by "Phod"
2000-07-30 19:55:49
phod@bigfoot.com
I really dont think any engine company will dominate the console sector as console-gamers just arent as obsessed by technology as PC gamers. Also there are some damn fine engines on console games already but because the technology isnt hyped no-one talks about it. For instance console games have had skeletal animation systems for 6 or more years now and yet that sort of tech is only just been touted as the latest and greatest new thing in PC games. Games like Spyro Crash Bandicoot and Banjo Kazooie have some damn impressive tech that are at least the equivalent of Unreal/Lith/Quake.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#7 by "Andy"
2000-07-30 19:59:15
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#3</b>, Dethstryk:
<QUOTE>
As for all of this, it's kind of suprising. I'll miss the little buggers, but maybe Levelord didn't mean they were going to do only console titles from now on?
</QUOTE>
Hmm -- "we are making plans ourselves to head in the strictly-console direction with future titles" -- sounds to me like they're planning to only do console games.

Although you may be right, of course. These things have a habit of being following up with one of those "just to clarify..." plan updates.
<QUOTE>
Did you contact him?
</QUOTE>
No, I thought the quote in the Vgames interview was fairly clear. :)
#8 by "Andy"
2000-07-30 20:00:50
andy@planetcrap.com
<b>#4</b>, None-1a:
<QUOTE>
Mostly the same ones (id and epic), although lith would dominate on the x-box.
</QUOTE>
Now that surprises me. I'd just kind of accepted that Id would dominate on the Xbox, but now I think about it, you've got a point...
#9 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-30 20:04:07
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
It's all cyclical. As soon as new major console systems are released, everyone abandons the PC.

The promise of "huge sales numbers, untold riches" is a strong lure. Of course there seem to be just as many console companies doing poorly as their PC brethren... the cost of producing a console game, in order to compete with the Squares and Sonys and EAs of the world, make the risks as high as the (potential) rewards.

I think there are very few PC companies that could dominate the consoles. They don't think they conceptualize their games as well as some console companies, particularly some of the Japanese developers. They hang a weak story on some hot-shit technology and boom, it's a game.

I think Blizzard could do it, assuming they created a console title and didn't just bring a PC-styled game to the systems. But they started in consoles, so I'm guessing they could do it. Of course they'll probably make more money with Diablo II on the PC than they would on almost any console game... (it must be nice not having to turn over around $10 of every game sold to Sony or Sega or, in the near-future, Bill Gates).

---
"My life is a patio of fun."<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#10 by "flamethrower"
2000-07-30 20:20:06
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
This is the best news since I heard Irrational Games went console too. (Disclaimer: yes that was sarcastic).

Ritual leaving the PC? Fuck. :(


Mind you, who can blame them. Utter tech-head enthusiasts aside <b>it's almost impossible to use/maintain a PC</b>. At least normal people can PLAY consoles, and they don't cost much.

That's why they're so fabulously popular, and why the PC is heading the way of a fat farting dinosaur.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#11 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-30 21:24:57
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>flamethrower</b> (#10):
<QUOTE>

This is the best news since I heard Irrational Games went console too. (Disclaimer: yes that was sarcastic).

Ritual leaving the PC? Fuck. :(


Mind you, who can blame them. Utter tech-head enthusiasts aside <B>it's almost impossible to use/maintain a PC</B>. At least normal people can PLAY consoles, and they don't cost much.

That's why they're so fabulously popular, and why the PC is heading the way of a fat farting dinosaur.
</QUOTE>

I disagree.  :)  On the whole, yes, it's tough to maintain a PC if you're a tech-head who fucks with it.  But my Dad is not technically literate (<i>he's OK, but he doesn't know <b>that </b>much</i>) and he plays games all the time on his PC.  Of course, he has me to lean on when the going gets tough so ... maybe that's a bad example...


<b>All</b>

I think most PC games are tough console ports ... Especially FPS games.  Controller issues aside, FPS games are made with PC memory/hard-drive space in mind ... going to a console you suddenly realize how little memory there really is.

Then there's other genres ... like Diablo2 style games.  I don't know about that games memory requirements, but the gameplay is FAR better suited to a console.


And I <b>finally </b>installed CrapSpy ... neat!  :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#12 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-07-30 21:32:48
Sgt_Hulka@Hulka.com http://www.hulka.com
<b>#11</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
<QUOTE>And I <B>finally </B>installed CrapSpy ... neat! :)</QUOTE>

Welcome to the crap world.  Click the little button the lower righthand of the window and you can join chat!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#13 by "Rambar"
2000-07-30 21:34:16
<QUOTE>Then there's other genres ... like Diablo2 style games. I don't know about that games memory requirements, but the gameplay is FAR better suited to a console.
</QUOTE>

Ah, no.

Diablo 2 is much better multiplayer with 4+ people.  It just gets very boring alone.  Unless your playing hardcore but thats just as good with other people.

Diablo 2 style games?  The only roguelike on a console I can think of offhand is Chocobos Mysterious Dungeon but I haven't played it.
#14 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-30 21:39:23
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>Rambar</b> (#13):
<QUOTE>
Ah, no.

Diablo 2 is much better multiplayer with 4+ people. It just gets very boring alone. Unless your playing hardcore but thats just as good with other people.

Diablo 2 style games? The only roguelike on a console I can think of offhand is Chocobos Mysterious Dungeon but I haven't played it.
</QUOTE>

OK, maybe I'm completely baked or something, but Diablo2 sure seems like a console-style game to me.  Move a guy around, bash on monsters, collect treasure, simple quests, etc ... doesn't require a complex controller to use.

And consoles are starting to come out with multiplayer capability ... so why won't it work again?  :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#15 by "None-1a"
2000-07-30 21:39:35
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a
<b>#11</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
<QUOTE>I think most PC games are tough console ports ... Especially FPS games.
Controller issues aside, FPS games are made with PC memory/hard-drive space in
mind ... going to a console you suddenly realize how little memory there really
is. </QUOTE>

Um Warren remember you have DVD storage space on all new systems now, so storage for the game alone shouldn't be an issue. And many are planing to include or release a hard drive so addon's aren't an issue eather. the only realy remaining barier is the RAM, maybe next time they'll finaly get that one right.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#16 by "Whisp"
2000-07-30 21:42:52
whisp_@hotmail.com
<b>#11</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
<QUOTE>Then there's other genres ... like Diablo2 style games. I don't know about that
games memory requirements, but the gameplay is FAR better suited to a console.
</QUOTE>

Well, as for run time, I couldn't say.  However, my save game folder is a few bytes short of 100K, and that's just for 1 character that's only beat normal.  I'm not sure, but I don't think most consoles have that much memory easily available.  

-Whisp
#17 by "Mat Bettinson"
2000-07-30 21:44:24
mat@mats.net
<b>#8</b> "Andy" wrote...
<QUOTE>

Now that surprises me. I'd just kind of accepted that Id would dominate on the Xbox, but now I think about it, you've got a point...
</QUOTE>
It's a console with, we suppose, a low(er) OS overhead. I can't see them supporting OpenGL, can you? They'll have a cut-down DX8 or whatever and that'll be the rendering API. id swallow pride and use it? Not a chance. They'll let someone else port it as with every other console conversion of their games.

Mat
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#18 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-30 21:44:40
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Warren Marshall wrote in post #14:</b>
<quote>OK, maybe I'm completely baked or something, but Diablo2 sure seems like a console-style game to me. Move a guy around, bash on monsters, collect treasure, simple quests, etc ... doesn't require a complex controller to use. </quote>
The inventory and menu systems in the game would leave a lot to be desired if they were ported to be used by a controller. Anytime I have to control a mouse with a gamepad, I want to just curl up and die.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#19 by "None-1a"
2000-07-30 21:45:55
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a
<b>#17</b> "Mat Bettinson" wrote...
<QUOTE>It's a console with, we suppose, a low(er) OS overhead. I can't see them
supporting OpenGL, can you? </QUOTE>

According to Nvidia yes it does. And the direct X 8 shouldn't be a wattered down version (although games could use what ever version they want and included in on the disk).<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#20 by "Rambar"
2000-07-30 21:50:48
rambar@coldsprings.reno.nv.us
<b>#14</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
<QUOTE>
OK, maybe I'm completely baked or something, but Diablo2 sure seems like a console-style game to me. Move a guy around, bash on monsters, collect treasure, simple quests, etc ... doesn't require a complex controller to use.

And consoles are starting to come out with multiplayer capability ... so why won't it work again? :)</QUOTE>

Thats a description of thousands of games on any platform. It describes almost all of the Mario Brothers games.  Dare I say Baldur's Gate as well.  Some questsweren't simple but a lot of them were.  "Go get my ring/boots/magical crap!"  If you'd call Baldur's Gate a console style game you'd stop at nothing.

Multiplayer on console is an interesting thing.  There are 3 options.  You can have all 2/3/4 people playing on 1 TV.  That's not very fun considering the screen space and resolution of most TVs.  You can have different consoles hooked up to different tvs linked by a cable (Hmm sounds like a network..).  Or you could put modems in the consoles (Sounds like a computer..).

Hell if you're going to go the with the last 2 options just put a hard drive in the thing and call it a PC that you can't upgrade.  We already have mice and keyboards.  Besides it'd give the /.'ers something else to put linux on.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#21 by "None-1a"
2000-07-30 22:00:14
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a
<b>#20</b> "Rambar" wrote...
<QUOTE>Hell if you're going to go the with the last 2 options just put a hard drive in
the thing and call it a PC that you can't upgrade. We already have mice and
keyboards. Besides it'd give the /.'ers something else to put linux on.
</QUOTE>

Rambar where the hell have you been for the last 6 months, the do you think X-box is and ENS600 is the same thing running Linux.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#22 by "Rambar"
2000-07-30 22:03:02
rambar@coldsprings.reno.nv.us
<b>#21</b> "None-1a" wrote...
<QUOTE>
Rambar where the hell have you been for the last 6 months, the do you think X-box is and ENS600 is the same thing running Linux.</QUOTE>

I stopped caring what Linux was put on after it started working on x86 :)
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#23 by "runab0ut"
2000-07-30 22:16:27
runabout@crosswinds.net http://www.digisignmedia.com
its pretty much promising that consoles would be up to snuff with PC games. but, i think that the pc would better give off more functionallity and a "all-in-one" component that sits in front of you.

consoles are just created for a quick game by your own... but who would like to play an FPS like quake or unreal in a playstation?!??<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#24 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-30 22:20:52
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>Rambar</b> (#20):
<QUOTE>
Thats a description of thousands of games on any platform. It describes almost all of the Mario Brothers games. Dare I say Baldur's Gate as well. Some questsweren't simple but a lot of them were. "Go get my ring/boots/magical crap!" If you'd call Baldur's Gate a console style game you'd stop at nothing.

Multiplayer on console is an interesting thing. There are 3 options. You can have all 2/3/4 people playing on 1 TV. That's not very fun considering the screen space and resolution of most TVs. You can have different consoles hooked up to different tvs linked by a cable (Hmm sounds like a network..). Or you could put modems in the consoles (Sounds like a computer..).

Hell if you're going to go the with the last 2 options just put a hard drive in the thing and call it a PC that you can't upgrade. We already have mice and keyboards. Besides it'd give the /.'ers something else to put linux on.
</QUOTE>

OK, well, call me insane but I could see Baldur's Gate working on a console.  What I can't see working is something like Deus Ex (not without a new controller).

All I'm saying is this : if a game has simple control requirements, and the gameplay is relatively straight forward, it should make for a decent console port.  I don't know why I'm not able to make this clear...

Just my opinion ...<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#25 by "Mat Bettinson"
2000-07-30 22:31:11
mat@mats.net
<b>#19</b> "None-1a" wrote...
<QUOTE>

According to Nvidia yes it does. And the direct X 8 shouldn't be a wattered down version (although games could use what ever version they want and included in on the disk).</QUOTE>

When I say watered down, they wont be supporting the legacy DX stuff right? OpenGL? Odd. Still since they'll only be one implementation I guess it could be OK.

Mat<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#26 by "Andy"
2000-07-30 22:52:38
andy@planetcrap.com
Topic updated:
<quote>
We've since heard from Richard, by way of a forwarded e-mail, that Ritual will continue to make PC games as well as console-only titles. His comments in the Vgames interview did not mean that Ritual will be a "strictly-console" company.
</quote>
#27 by "flamethrower"
2000-07-30 23:09:02
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
<b>#11</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
I disagree. :) On the whole, yes, it's tough to maintain a PC if you're a tech-head who fucks with it. But my Dad is not technically literate (<I>he's OK, but he doesn't know that much</I>) and he plays games all the time on his PC. Of course, <b>he has me to lean on</b> when the going gets tough so ... maybe that's a bad example... </QUOTE>

And those are the magic words... I don't know ANYONE who could run a PC without (a) having professional PC expertise [or enough skill they could make living out of it even if they don't] (b) knowing an (a).

Direct X. Games that install different versions of Direct X. Video card drivers. Soundcard drivers. Windows updates. TWEAKING (Hello? How many non-techs know about ConservativeSwapfileUsage? Very few yet it is a MAJOR cause of "stutter" in games). You buy a PC, it works for a while with the latest games. Get the slightest problem and you're STUFFED.

Me? I can hack a PC reasonably well, I code for a living, but fuck even with pages and pages of web material (and hours and hours studying it) it scares the crap out of me.

I dread those words when someone I meet finds out I work wiv computars... "Ahh, I have a PC, I'm having this problem..."


But congrats on getting CrapSpy.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#28 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-30 23:16:13
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<b>#27</b> "flamethrower" wrote...
<QUOTE>
How many non-techs know about ConservativeSwapfileUsage? Very few yet it is a MAJOR cause of "stutter" in games).
</QUOTE>
How many non-techies care about that "stutter" or let it affect their enjoyment of a game?

---
"My life is a patio of fun."<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#29 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-30 23:17:28
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>flamethrower</b> (#27):
<QUOTE>Direct X. Games that install different versions of Direct X. Video card drivers.
Soundcard drivers. Windows updates. TWEAKING (Hello? How many non-techs know
about ConservativeSwapfileUsage? Very few yet it is a MAJOR cause of "stutter"
in games). You buy a PC, it works for a while with the latest games. Get the
slightest problem and you're STUFFED.
</QUOTE>

Yeah, but I'm not sure a closed console is necessarily a "better" thing.  I dunno ... On one hand the black box mentality on the console stuff is good for stability, but I've already heard talk of future consoles having internet access, hard drives ... I've heard the word "patch" thrown around like it was a positive thing.  If consoles open up the black box, they'll be in the same world of hurt.

<QUOTE>But congrats on getting CrapSpy.</QUOTE>

:)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#30 by "flamethrower"
2000-07-30 23:31:56
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
<b>#28</b> "Steve Bauman" wrote...
<QUOTE>

<B>#27</B> "flamethrower" wrote...

<quote>
How many non-techs know about ConservativeSwapfileUsage? Very few yet it is a MAJOR cause of "stutter" in games).
</quote>
How many non-techies care about that "stutter" or let it affect their enjoyment of a game?
</QUOTE>


You spend $2000 on a computer, $50 on a game, and it's STILL not as fluid as a Playstation? I'd be fucking pissed...

It's not that noticeable on a FPS, you try playing Descent 3 with a liberal swapfile usage (?) and see how much it rocks (clue: it doesn't, it's REALLY annoying, and noticeable).

And yeah, Waren, I'd forgotten about <b>game</b> patches... :D



<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#31 by "flamethrower"
2000-07-30 23:35:01
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
<b>#29</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
<QUOTE>
Yeah, but I'm not sure a closed console is necessarily a "better" thing. I dunno ... On one hand the black box mentality on the console stuff is good for stability, but I've already heard talk of future consoles having internet access, hard drives ... I've heard the word "patch" thrown around like it was a positive thing. If consoles open up the black box, they'll be in the same world of hurt.
</QUOTE>

Consoles are a "better" thing for non-techies ("punters") and a worse thing for hobbyists ("hardcore").

I'll get some kind of next-gen console because I'm getting tired of people bring the Playstion round to mine, they're a really good social thing, and great for fightin' games, but we'll not see the likes of SS2, Planetscape Torment, or Total-A on them.

Microsoft have to pull the PC back together or it will become less and less viable. Maybe W2K?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#32 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-30 23:59:22
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<b>#30</b> "flamethrower" wrote...
<QUOTE>
You spend $2000 on a computer, $50 on a game, and it's STILL not as fluid as a Playstation? I'd be fucking pissed...
</QUOTE>
In all likelihood, those people didn't purchase their PC solely to play games, so they'll be less likely to be that upset. Instead, they'll just go back to using it for work, to browse the Internet, to read e-mail, blah blah blah (all of this REALLY taxes that Pentium III processor...)

---
"My life is a patio of fun."<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#33 by "Dethstryk"
2000-07-31 00:02:13
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>Steve Bauman wrote in post #32:</b>
<quote>"My life is a patio of fun."</quote>
You know, Steve.. I have to ask. What is this quote about, and where is it from? There's been a few people wondering about it, and I can't hold it back any further. ;)


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming
#34 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-07-31 00:37:29
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<b>#33</b> "Dethstryk" wrote...
<QUOTE>
You know, Steve.. I have to ask. What is this quote about, and where is it from? There's been a few people wondering about it, and I can't hold it back any further. ;)
</QUOTE>
It's a quote by Zippy the Pinhead. It's a total non-sequitur (those who knows Zippy know that everything he says is basically stream-of-conscious nonsense). It's completely devoid of meaning but when used it sounds vaguely meaningful, which I find oddly cool.

And thanks to the miracle that is CrapSpy, people can think I'm all deep or something for attaching such a "deep" quote to all of my posts...

---
"My life is a patio of fun."<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#35 by "Rambar"
2000-07-31 00:57:45
rambar@coldsprings.reno.nv.us
<b>#32</b> "Steve Bauman" wrote...
<QUOTE>
In all likelihood, those people didn't purchase their PC solely to play games, so they'll be less likely to be that upset. Instead, they'll just go back to using it for work, to browse the Internet, to read e-mail, blah blah blah (all of this REALLY taxes that Pentium III processor...)
</QUOTE>

Gah!  These deveolpers obviously haven't recieved a recent copy of the Bloat Road Map.  If they did your job you'd never be able to use current software w/o it being slow enough that you have to upgrade.  Of course once you upgrade we'll release a slightly enhanced version that requires exactly 10% more processing power.

Microsoft is doing its part...but what about you?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#36 by "Rambar"
2000-07-31 01:02:37
rambar@coldsprings.reno.nv.us
<b>#24</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
All I'm saying is this : if a game has simple control requirements, and the gameplay is relatively straight forward, it should make for a decent console port. I don't know why I'm not able to make this clear...</QUOTE>

My point is thats 90% of games be they electronic or not.  How many people can play checkers but not chess?  War but not bridge?

There's got to be something else that makes a game a "PC" game or a "console" game.  Probably the number of patches :)
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#37 by "flamethrower"
2000-07-31 01:09:04
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
<b>#32</b> "Steve Bauman" wrote...
<QUOTE>
<b>In all likelihood, those people didn't purchase their PC solely to play games, so they'll be less likely to be that upset. </b>Instead, they'll just go back to using it for work, to browse the Internet, to read e-mail, blah blah blah (all of this REALLY taxes that Pentium III processor...) </QUOTE>


There are two ways of interpreting the key prhase here (highlighted). They're less likely to be upset <i>about what</i>?

1. The worth, to them, of a $2000 computer.
2. The worth, to the, of the game they just bought.

1. Sure. They have it for other things, and SimCity seem pretty stable. Or The Sims.

2. They'll be one $50 "hot" 3D games people rave about, and it fails to peroform well for some configuration reason (or for that matter bugs) and well... and, well, once-bitten, twice shy. These people are that bit less likely to experiment again in the future. True 3D games ARE desirable, but PC ones have a fearsome reputation for difficulty of use (really, punter people struggle with our beloved mouse/keyboard combo).


Each badly done indy title, each "this doesn't work on video card", each hassle is, if not a life-long avoider of the genres, push people towards SAFE BETS, the big titles, not the little people developer stuff.

Oh that, and each game on the hard-drive is a BIG FAT CHUNK out of most hard drives, so casual punters tend to buy games when they're done with old ones.


Snore.

See? Who cares if it were true I made you snore. Conversation sucks.
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#38 by "ramtin"
2000-07-31 01:26:37
sorry to get off topic guys (i know you are deep in intellectual converstation) but darkseid's threats are like jello on my pie; curious, yet annoying, not very harmful.  i'd like everyone here to know that posting your opinion should not make you a target for unwarranted threats.  

They thought they could get me but I just got a few letters that ended up in the trash.  I like planetcrap and i also like andy so i post here because i am a computer gaming enthisuiast and my favorite game is solitaire-vegas style.  i love talking about video cards, napster, and the endless thrill of shooting people in virtual worlds.

which brings me to; when will the sequel to riven come?  it's been a while ahsn't it?  you guys should know, i mean really don't you like know somebody working on it or something i'm sorry i'll stop
#39 by "Bracket"
2000-07-31 01:27:36
herbert@tsghelp.com http://www.tsghelp.com
Mat said:
<i>It's a console with, we suppose, a low(er) OS overhead. I can't see them supporting OpenGL, can you? They'll have a cut-down DX8 or whatever and that'll be the rendering API. id swallow pride and use it? Not a chance. They'll let someone else port it as with every other console conversion of their games. </i>

I seem to remember Carmack said in an interview a while ago that NVidia were planning an OpenGL port for XBox, and that he hoped to use that. In the same interview, he said positive things about DirectGraphics (the DirectDraw & Direct3D merger in DirectX 8) and its capabilities. So who knows? Hell may freeze over, and Carmack may use DX.... I think this is increasingly possible since Carmack is on the XBox advisory board.

-- Bracket.



 

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#40 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-31 01:28:15
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>flamethrower</b> (#37):
<QUOTE>Each badly done indy title, each "this doesn't work on video card", each hassle is, if not a life-long avoider of the genres, push people towards SAFE BETS, the big titles, not the little people developer stuff.
</QUOTE>

Which basically means that the rest of the gaming world is being dragged into console gaming because of the lowest common denominator.  Great.  :-/<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#41 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-31 01:30:05
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>ramtin</b> (#38):
<QUOTE>They thought they could get me but I just got a few letters that ended up in the
trash. </QUOTE>

Don't even bother.  Most of us were there.  We saw what really happened.  :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#42 by "flamethrower"
2000-07-31 01:32:05
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
<b>#40</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
<QUOTE>Which basically means that the rest of the gaming world is being dragged into console gaming because of the lowest common denominator. Great. :-/</QUOTE>


Which means PC gaming isn't dead but it isn't going to be as much fun as it should be. Agreed. 8-C
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#43 by "ramtin"
2000-07-31 01:39:27
Can you please explain to jury what REALLY happened, Mr. Warren Marshall?

Oh, you work for a game company?  That's cool.  Somebody famous knows me!!!
#44 by "flamethrower"
2000-07-31 01:40:37
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
For those of you who dare not "try that at home":

<QUOTE>Today I'm going to talk about how developers and fag designers are shooting themselves in the foot by increasing refudge packability. The logic is simple: If you as a PC fag continues to fudge pack the same fag for an extended period of time, you are less likely to buy other fags. Of course this isn't a popular notion -- refudge packability adds value for the fudge packers and developers use it to build brand loyalty. But the fact remains that extended refudge packability shrinks the PC fags market, and anything that makes the market smaller isn't beneficial.

As the console market continues to develop and the technology challenges the graphical dominance of the PC, those qualities that separate PC fags from console fags will define who is in each market. fudge packers that prefer certain qualities or genres will gravitate toward the systems that can fill their needs. For example, in general, fighting fags are on consoles, and turn-based strategy is on the PC. Certainly there is blurring, but anyone who has fudge packed fags for any length of time has learned to spot the difference between a console and a PC fag. One of the differences that has really asserted itself in the last few years is the amount of refudge packability that can be found in many PC fags.

Generally refudge packability is furthered in a couple of different ways: randomness in the single fudge packer and customizable multifudge packer. Some fags, like Civilization II or The Age of Empires: Age of Kings offer such a detailed and random single-fudge packer experience that it can be repeated indefinitely. Others, such as John Romero, offer a traditional single-fudge packer experience bolstered by a multifudge packer side, in this case immensely popular some two years after its release. In fact, with the exception of a few very well designed single-fudge packer fags, more likely than not, it's the multifudge packer fags that are adding so much refudge packability to PC fags. fudge packers seem to enjoy fudge packing a fag more with other humans at the controls than AI, because it's more interactive, it's more challenging and often leads to a sense of community.

Developers of multifudge packer fags like that term: community. They want a community of fudge packers to form around their fag. I can understand the attraction; it has to be satisfying from a development standpoint to have a group of fudge packers that are loyal to your fag. It builds brand loyalty, can increase the popularity of the fag via word of mouth and lengthens the purchase life cycle. Large communities invariably start producing mods that can take on an entire life of their own. Deux Ex, for instance, is the most popular version of multifudge packer John Romero, and The Dallas Black Citidel didn't even create it. It's beneficial for the sales of that fag to have a loyal fan base. But for the overall PC market, it's not a benefit; in fact, it's hurting the overall PC market.

How is it hurting the market? Let's make the assumption that fag fudge packers only have a certain amount of time each day to fudge pack fags, 10 hours for the hardcore and just an hour or two for the casual fudge packer. Now if they are loyal to one fag, say John Romero, the predominant amount of time they have to fudge pack fags is taken up by the same fag for months and months. During that time, they aren't buying other fags -- why would they? They've got connection to a community, they are enjoying themselves there and no longer need further entertainment. The result is a market that is being sliced up into smaller and smaller pies, with loyal fans dedicated to a few specific fags. For a short term this wouldn't be that bad, but fags like John Carmack and John Romero have lifespans reaching two years or more. The result is a market that isn't purchasing as many fags per fudge packer as the console fudge packers. Console fags generally have a much shorter lifespan, due in part to rapid sequels, the lack of community on multifudge packer and the limitations of the systems. So while the technology of consoles continues to get closer to the that of the PC, their market continues to grow,and ours continues to get sliced up into smaller pieces. The longterm pressure could be disastrous as the market gets smaller and smaller.

What can be done? This problem has no viable solution, unfortunately, because it's too beneficial to everyone that partakes. Valve believes in its mod community, and I've discussed this very topic with Valve at different times. It feels, rightfully, that when a better fag comes along, it'll be bumped off the top. Why shouldn't it be the most popular if it is the best? Valve is right that the strong should dominate. The concern, of course, is for the bigger picture; if Valve or any group of developers grabs the majority of fudge packers longterm, the rest of the market suffers. Hey, it's definitely a free market, and if you can't compete, you die, but a market so small that little guys don't even have a chance kills off one of the things that made this industry great. </QUOTE>

Isn't that the funniest thing you've ever read (except that time you translated THAT e-mail into Jive..)

<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#45 by "flamethrower"
2000-07-31 01:41:52
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
SHIT SHIT SHIT

Wrong thread!!

(See the BC3K thread)

Erm.

Bye.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#46 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-07-31 01:57:26
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
<b>flamethrower</b> (#42):
<QUOTE>Which means PC gaming isn't dead but it isn't going to be as much fun as it
should be. Agreed. </QUOTE>

That's your conclusion, not mine.  :)

<b>ramtin</b> (#43):
<QUOTE>Can you please explain to jury what REALLY happened, Mr. Warren Marshall?
</QUOTE>

Like I said, most of us were here.  Why would I explain something that most people already know?

<i>*puts troll food away ... sorry!*</i>
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#47 by "None-1a"
2000-07-31 02:04:03
none1a@home.com http://www.geocities.com/none-1a/
<b>#25</b> "Mat Bettinson" wrote...
<QUOTE>When I say watered down, they wont be supporting the legacy DX stuff right? </QUOTE>

That's not watered down from the version that will be used on the PC side at all, much of the legacy stuff is out (thus the change to DirectGraphics, rather then direct draw or direct 3d). Or at lest that what every article on it I've ready has been saying.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#48 by "flamethrower"
2000-07-31 02:04:14
flamey_at_evil@hotmail.com http://flamethrower.evilavatar.com
I agreed on the use of a not-happy smiley. I'm sorry, I'm aped up.  8:(|)
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#49 by "sprayNwipe"
2000-07-31 02:07:32
spraynwipe@optushome.com.au http://ausgamejobs.qgl.org
<quote>
This is the best news since I heard Irrational Games went console too. (Disclaimer: yes that was sarcastic).
</quote>

You know, Irrational Games didn't go completely console. <a href="http://www.irrational.com.au">Irrational Games Australia</a> is working on a PC RPG title based on superheroes.
#50 by "ramtin"
2000-07-31 02:17:53
You would explain so, my friend, because you guys thought that you had achieved something that you did not, eh?  That was to the distinguished Mr. Marshall.  

And to label people "trolls" defeats the purpose of messageboards, marking some people's opinions as "invalid" because they are "trolls" is the exact opposite of what the internet and sites like this were founded for.  Don't you think?
C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Ritual FAKKs off?

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|
P O S T   A   C O M M E N T

You need to be logged in to post a comment here. If you don't have an account yet, you can create one here. Registration is free.
C R A P T A G S
Simple formatting: [b]bold[/b], [i]italic[/i], [u]underline[/u]
Web Links: [url=www.mans.de]Cool Site[/url], [url]www.mans.de[/url]
Email Links: [email=some@email.com]Email me[/email], [email]some@email.com[/email]
Simple formatting: Quoted text: [quote]Yadda yadda[/quote]
Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (2) • ArchivesUsersLoginCreate Account
You are currently not logged in.
There are currently 0 people browsing this site. [Details]