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Mandatory "Major Title is released and where is DNF?" thread....
November 22nd 2004, 19:23 CET by DougS

I wonder how many times they've scrapped/revised their art assets/code base and started over when a new title comes out. You figure there was a revamp when Wolfenstein came out, another when UT 2003 came out, and then another when Doom 3 came out. Now eclipsing all of those is Half Life 2. Just how much artwork and code gets chucked at 3D Realms when a big title comes out and raises the bar? You have to figure that everything that was in that (I believe E3) demo that appeared 3 years ago was trashed long ago because the technology and bar has moved way past that level of development....

It's not funny anymore. It's actually quite sad...
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Home » Topic: Mandatory "Major Title is released and where is DNF?" thread....

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#1 by Jibble
2004-11-22 19:27:50
Morons.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#2 by Dethstryk
2004-11-22 19:28:28
jemartin@tcainternet.com
I really enjoyed watching Broussard post on Shacknews the night of the HL2 unlock.
#3 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 19:29:24
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
Do link, Deth darling.

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#4 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 19:31:19
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
Also, I voted "yes" - because some things just need to be said*.







*For two million, five hundred fifty-eight thousand, seven hundred eleventh time.

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#5 by Ryslin
2004-11-22 19:31:34
(waves piece of paper)
At this point it is not Duke nukem forever. It is Duke nukem whatever. I doubt anything could make me play that game even if it comes out tommarrow. I am prepared to eat those words. Please? Anyone listening? Helloooo?

Someone get the chlorine, We have food fuckers amongst us! THE POOL WILL BE CLEANED!
#6 by Dethstryk
2004-11-22 19:32:08
jemartin@tcainternet.com
It's somewhere in the comments of the unlocking thread on Shacknews. I'll find it later and post a link to a few examples. He was basically just begging for it to be unlocked early.

Oh, the things that have come out since DNF was announced.Even the LOTR movie trilogy was released.
#7 by Jibble
2004-11-22 19:33:46
#5 Ryslin
I am prepared to eat those words. Please? Anyone listening? Helloooo?

Too late, Broussard already consumed them.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#8 by Penguinx
2004-11-22 19:34:52
Words like 'tommarrow' should not be eaten. They could make you sick.

#9 by Jibble
2004-11-22 19:35:57
I really don't think he'd notice.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#10 by Gunp01nt
2004-11-22 19:36:36
supersimon33@hotmail.com
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the reason why DNF is taking so long is because 3DR's talent pool isn't up to par with the rest of today's AAA game industry. It's the first 'true 3d' game they're making, for starters. I don't know how many new talents they hired over the years, but it doesn't appear to be helping them much. And after all of Scott and George's bragging, 3DR knows they have to bring something really spectacular so as not to become the laughing stock of... the world, maybe?

Would you like to supersize or... BURN FOR ETERNITY?
#11 by BobJustBob
2004-11-22 19:37:33
I was still hoping that DNF would be a good game, until Broussard asked for scripting ideas. Scripting = ass.

Dood.
#12 by Charles
2004-11-22 19:38:00
www.bluh.org
I blame the voters who elected Bush for this thread.

Do-Re-Mi-Fa-SO-LONG-FUCKER!
#13 by Ergo
2004-11-22 19:40:11
#11 BobJustBob
I was still hoping that DNF would be a good game, until Broussard asked for scripting ideas. Scripting = ass.

The horse is now drinkable!

Mac OSX--UNIX For Girls (tm)
DVDs
#14 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 19:41:44
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
Still too viscous, but fits into a blender.

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#15 by Jibble
2004-11-22 19:50:23
#12 Charles
I blame the voters who elected Bush for this thread.

I was going to make a Diebold joke, but I guess the moment has already passed.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#16 by Shadarr
2004-11-22 19:55:08
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I don't have anything to say about DNF.

UAC! Fuck yeah!
#17 by Charles
2004-11-22 19:57:39
www.bluh.org
Where's DKI lately?

Do-Re-Mi-Fa-SO-LONG-FUCKER!
#18 by yotsuya
2004-11-22 20:02:47
You live by him- go find him.

I think this is actually ripe for discussion, as long as we stay away from "OMG George is fat". Will DNF have anything positive going for it, or is it just too little too late?

"God gave you a brain because he wants you to think."
I wear my sunglasses at night.
#19 by Jibble
2004-11-22 20:04:17
I'll take the second one.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#20 by Jibble
2004-11-22 20:04:36
Two of them, actually.  Also, fries.

MAKE IT QUICK, MOTHERFUCKER.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#21 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 20:05:55
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
I think that it's so late, that the hype machine has left Duke for dead and it will be the first title in a decade that is judged solely on how good the actual game is. Which might help it, since the underlying franchise is pubescent drivel of the worst kind leftover from the time when games were limited by what can be depicted with sprites.

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#22 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 20:06:47
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
Get Jibble a Coke, on me.

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#23 by Jibble
2004-11-22 20:07:29
Personally, I'm looking forward to the stripper tit-physics.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#24 by yotsuya
2004-11-22 20:08:18
Out the door in 2004
Going live in 2005

"God gave you a brain because he wants you to think."
I wear my sunglasses at night.
#25 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 20:08:39
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
There is this thing called "porn", which studies have found offers gamers of your profile more for less...

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#26 by Shadarr
2004-11-22 20:09:05
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I honestly don't think the game will ever be released.  As such, questions about whether it will suck are irrelevant.

UAC! Fuck yeah!
#27 by Charles
2004-11-22 20:11:22
www.bluh.org
I am immensely curious what they have though.  I can picture them being in a constant state of flux, and with no actual end date, it really becomes impossible to finish.

Do-Re-Mi-Fa-SO-LONG-FUCKER!
#28 by Gunp01nt
2004-11-22 20:13:31
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Will DNF have anything positive going for it, or is it just too little too late?


If it turns out to be a great game, that looks good, everyone will forget the whole debacle within minutes.

Would you like to supersize or... BURN FOR ETERNITY?
#29 by BobJustBob
2004-11-22 20:15:37
the time when games were limited by what can be depicted with sprites


Buh? Sprites can be far more detailed than 3d models.

Dood.
#30 by yotsuya
2004-11-22 20:15:51
I'm with Charles. Don't you think they're sick of it by now?

"God gave you a brain because he wants you to think."
I wear my sunglasses at night.
#31 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 20:16:35
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
add to that "...at 320x240 resolution", Mr. Nitpick.

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#32 by Jibble
2004-11-22 20:17:42
#25 zimbardo_ugly
There is this thing called "porn", which studies have found offers gamers of your profile more for less...

I'm actually very curious, with the current acceleration of our technology, how long it will be before all porn is just simulated.  I mean, with the way the porn industry embraces new technology it seems like that'd eventually be much cheaper than paying for actors, film, cameras, directors, cameramen, fluffers, etc.  It would also be much more interactive and probably more profitable because you could reuse a lot of the animation cycles and what not.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#33 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 20:17:56
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
Yotsuya, man, this jumping in between me and people I'm talking to thing is really weak.

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#34 by Shadarr
2004-11-22 20:22:28
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Jibble,
Don't you remember the article about how up to a point, more realism is good but after that point it starts to creep people out?  Until computer-modeled people are indistinguishable from live actors, it will creep people out.  Except for the sickos who are into machinima porn.

UAC! Fuck yeah!
#35 by Hugin
2004-11-22 20:23:18
lmccain@nber.org
#28 by Gunp01nt


If it turns out to be a great game, that looks good, everyone will forget the whole debacle within minutes.


I disagree.  Because even if it's a very good game, there will still be the obvious question of what bits in particular took so long. To put it another way, they can't say "It took this long because that's how long it takes to make a great game.", because it's clear that a great game can be made in less time.  

Besides, it won't be a great game.  Broussard and co clearly have nothing revolutionary in terms of engine tech/gameplay, and the IP itself is a joke.
#36 by Jibble
2004-11-22 20:26:27
#34 Shadarr
Jibble,
Don't you remember the article about how up to a point, more realism is good but after that point it starts to creep people out?  Until computer-modeled people are indistinguishable from live actors, it will creep people out.  Except for the sickos who are into machinima porn.

I continue to be aware of the uncanny valley.  I was just postulating on how long it would be before computer models were indistinguishable from live actors.  I've seen renders that were very nearly indistinguishable from the real thing, but we still haven't seen anything in motion yet that's good enough to fool people.  I'm not sure it's really that far off.  Ten to twenty years or so, maybe? Until then, I assure you that the machinima porn community will more than support the movement.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#37 by Hugin
2004-11-22 20:27:51
lmccain@nber.org
Jibble, isn't there already CGI porn for stuff that's illegal?  I could have sworn there were some court cases about whether or not it was legal to do kiddie porn as CGI.  Or was it stories?

And there's hentai anime.  So maybe they will avoid the uncanny valley thing by making the stuff cell shaded and stylized.  I dunno.  The people in live action porn are already cartoons.
#38 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 20:28:01
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
#32 by Jibble

I'm actually very curious, with the current acceleration of our technology, how long it will be before all porn is just simulated.  I mean, with the way the porn industry embraces new technology it seems like that'd eventually be much cheaper than paying for actors, film, cameras, directors, cameramen, fluffers, etc.  It would also be much more interactive and probably more profitable because you could reuse a lot of the animation cycles and what not.


Now, are those people really more expensive than programmers / producers of digital content? Also, note that the porn industry in the USA alone (projection based on my lousy memory and an Eric Schlosser essay from some years back) is producing more than 300 titles per week; that most individual works in porn are consumed only once or at most a few times by those who purchase them; that most people would be embarrassed to call support for problems running porn on a PC and that women porn stars are crucial to the industry.

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#39 by Jibble
2004-11-22 20:36:40
#37 Hugin
The people in live action porn are already cartoons.

Very true.  They're mostly just caricatures of what an ideal sexual partner might look like and nothing more.  This might tend to support the idea of just making them into actual cartoons.  Hentai, for example, which highlights women with physical properties that defy every known law of physics and skeletal structure.

#38 zimbardo_ugly
Also, note that the porn industry in the USA alone (projection based on my lousy memory and an Eric Schlosser essay from some years back) is producing more than 300 titles per week; that most individual works in porn are consumed only once or at most a few times by those who purchase them; that most people would be embarrassed to call support for problems running porn on a PC and that women porn stars are crucial to the industry.

After someone's purchased your product, it doesn't matter to you if they use it once or a thousand times.  Given a baseline of 10,000 individually crafted actors and hundreds of pre-made scenes, how many options do you think they could crank out in a week?  I'm thinking at least twenty years, when animator/3D modeling jobs might basically be what web design jobs are like today.  I really don't think women porn stars would matter anymore if you could create a woman of any size, shape, and coloring you want.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#40 by G-Man
2004-11-22 20:48:12
Jibble you are an idiot, but I appreciate you attempting to derail the conversation away from the non-starter that is this topic. Real porn will NEVER go away because it will NEVER make any economic sense to do so. Even if animation and modelling became so easy that even low wage workers could produce passable results, you are still paying salaries akin to that of a porn crew (perhaps more since they will have to be full-time employees rather than job to job). Additionally, you will STILL need actors. Who is going to voice the moans and what not of the virtual people? People who watch hardcore are actually really into the actors. They know who their favorite stars are and they will run out and consume whatever movies they are in. So even in your digital sweatshop situation, the voice talent will have leverage for higher salaries. Plus the way people fuck really is very different. There actually is some "acting" involved in porn and so the animators would have to be highly skilled to keep the fucking style consistent from character to character. Finally, hardcore porn consumers are also constantly looking for something new. They do not just buy a few pornos and watch them over and over, they churn through new releases looking for thrills. So you couldn't just show them the same girls and guys and voices and animations over and over, or they will stop buying your output pronto.
#41 by zimbardo_ugly
2004-11-22 20:49:38
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
G-Man = right.

Rot-corpse Sumatran art amuses proctor.
#42 by Jibble
2004-11-22 20:52:57
That may be the current feel of the market at large, but just give it a little while.  Might not be twenty years, maybe it'll be 40 or 50.

Honestly, I think  you put more faith in the average porn watcher than needs to be placed.  If you remove the possibility of having your face plastered on film, the possible realm of voice talent expands hugely.  Considering the current proliferation of amateur porn, I really don't think that what I'm saying is impossible.

Will it happen soon?  Probably not.

Will it happen eventually?  Probably so.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#43 by Jibble
2004-11-22 20:54:19
Enh, like all things, it will just take time.  Might be that it just becomes a strong subset of the porn industry.

I swear to god, if you fuckers don't learn how to link I'm going to destroy you all.
#44 by Hugin
2004-11-22 20:54:27
lmccain@nber.org
I doubt live action porn will ever go away completely.  But I expect CG porn to increase, yes.
#45 by jjohnsen
2004-11-22 20:57:25
http://www.johnsenclan.com
Don't you remember the article about how up to a point, more realism is good but after that point it starts to creep people out?  Until computer-modeled people are indistinguishable from live actors, it will creep people out.  Except for the sickos who are into machinima porn.

I like how the faces of HL2 characters have flaws, it makes them look better.

Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore.  -LP
#46 by E-ph0nk
2004-11-22 21:16:49
http://www.electrophonk.be
To be honest and give DNF and 3DRealms team some credit: a few things that are now well received and original in HL2 were allready in the DNF trailers.  At times, when playing HL2 - I had this tought that it could just as well be duke nukem - maybe without the whitey lines.

For example: the '98 demo of DNF had a helicopter chasing duke, and shooting the building (It was either a big door or a window that got shot to pieces) - you have the interactivity, using an object as a shield etc... Even the setting in the middle of half life (+/- from the train station, till the prison) reminded me off DNF a bit.

Now I know that I'm on a different boat then most on this... I came to planet crap years ago, when GB was still posting here - in the hopes of finding some info about DNF.  At the moment, I don't care all that much about DNF - but I do hope that they can pull off something nice and original.  Neither those who say it'll suck, or who say it'll be "teh b3st game 3v4r!!!!8!!" are justified to make their claims.
They allready admitted they've had some serious tech problems, and I do hope/think they have some insight in what makes a game good - or "above the average FPS".

DNF... To be honest, there isn't another FPS that I really want to play.  Quake 4 does nothing for me at the moment, neither does S.T.A.L.K.E.R.  Or are there others that should be great/revolutionary that I'm missing?!

#47 by FormerFlyGuy
2004-11-22 21:30:47
Well, for my part.  Doom 3 just ticked me off.  I played it for about three, maybe four hours, but the level design is just plain bad.  Yes, yes, I'm aware that it was 'retro', which apparently translates into 'We'll teleport shit on top of you!  In the dark!  And you're too stupid to know how to tape a flash-light to your gun!'  That got old fast and I thank my stars for the wonder of e-bay.

I was going to try Half-Life 2, but the whole Steam/need internet connection to play single-player/three hours to install/eight hours to 'authenticate'/plus you still have to have the CD in the drive to play horror stories dampened my ardour somewhat.  But 'crappers seem to be on the cutting edge of things to complain about, so are the Steam complaints overblown/how bad(good) is Steam?

Oh, and I note that I managed to kill the CJD part of another thread.  Whoot!
#48 by Duality
2004-11-22 21:34:41
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
#10 Gunp01nt
...so as not to become the laughing stock of... the world, maybe?

Become?
#49 by Gunp01nt
2004-11-22 21:36:11
supersimon33@hotmail.com
The years of bragging only become a vector of ridicule if it turns out they have nothing to show for. Right now they still got a lot of people thinking they're cooking up something wonderful in deep secret.

Would you like to supersize or... BURN FOR ETERNITY?
#50 by E-ph0nk
2004-11-22 21:37:22
http://www.electrophonk.be
Steam is great.  And I used to be very sceptic about it.
I gave it my ATI-voucher serial, it downloaded half life (I don't know how long a "fresh" download takes, I had steam running for a few weeks in the background, but it went pretty fast afaik) - and 20 minutes after it got "officially" released I had the game ready to play on my desktop.
Authenticating and updating really takes only 20 minutes or so on a midrange PC (PIV1800+).

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